I think planks are worthless, tell me why they arent
Replies
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I'm just popping in to say your transformation is amazing. hubba hubba
^^^ What she said.....wow.0 -
I'm just popping in to say your transformation is amazing. hubba hubba
^^^ What she said.....wow.
^^I had to check the pics to see what the fuss was about...good god, man! They're right! You look amazing!0 -
IMHO planks and other stability exercises are essential tools for body awareness, fine stabilizer control, and PNF... If they are not difficult enough, there are a multitude of variations out there to enhance the complexity and difficulty. Brushing them off as unimportant is a potentially harmful mistake.
For athletes, they are a key component of most major muscle group moves, and are responsible for protecting spinal alignment through almost everything we do. For aesthetics, they are responsible for tightening the abdominal area, and creating the leaner, more slender lines that people find appealing.
If you think they are a waste, try some more difficult ones. Im fairly certain that there's a plank, or variation of a plank, that will work for you.0 -
Trained individuals will find little use from them. If you can hold a plank greater than 45 sec, chances are there is no training benefit.
Much better static ab exercises are hollow holds and L-sits. Better dynamic exercises are dragon flags and slow toes to bar leg raises. These exercises actually have the resistance necessary to build a strong core.
Disagree with Point 1 here totally. I can squat 200KG\440Lb's to competition level - I'd have no chance if I had a weak core! Planks still work for me, BUT the difference is that I VARY mine. Most people don't do this, and just go for insane times -That's when they become a bit pointless.....
On point 2, I agree with part 1 - L-sits are brutal. Especially when I do them on rings. they do require a lot more technique\training than a plank variation. I've had no experience with hollow holds to comment on that.
Dragon flags would be an advanced move as well IMHO. Would take a lot of training\technique to perform in comparison.
I do agree that they would both work the core better than a standard plank though. But I can get more than enough with Plank Variations
As for the comment from msf74.. For those who are time limited? Seriously, THIS point is EXACTLY where the variations come in!!:
RKC Plank - 30 seconds, build to 60 seconds
One Arm Plank - 30-60 seconds
One Leg Plank - 30-30 seconds
Mastered all of the above? RKC Plank with 10lb weight plate\Off-set the weight plate, I could go on.....
As for people with goals of general health, yes they could be of just as much use. More strength\stability around the lumbar spine\abdominals anyone?0 -
planks - like most body-weight exercises - are more for someone at my level.
Like most BEGINNER bodyweight exercises.
There are lots of extremely tough bodyweight exercises too.
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There have been a few people knocking static exercises in this thread. Static exercise is a different way of working that is heavily used in the world of advanced calisthenics, not so much with weights. You are basically doing a frozen negative. They do have a strong training effect, both for hypertrophy and strength, however you have to do suitably difficult exercises where you fail relatively quickly (3 sec static hold = 1 rep, roughly).
For an easy to illustrate example, start with an L-sit, on the floor or holding on to some hand grips of some sort (or dip station). Most stronger people can at least get into an L-sit and hold it a little bit. Next puff out your chest by engaging the mid back (similar to the top of a submax deadlift), and press your hips forward of your hands, which will tip your legs up. This is a V-sit (the higher you go the harder it is). Once you press the hips forward of your hands, you will notice that the load dramatically shifts to the lats and the triceps, so much so that the abs and lower traps will no longer be close to a limiting factor. Holding the arm open requires an extremely powerful tricep contraction; v-sits will make the triceps sore like practically nothing else.0 -
If it ain't broke don't fix it...whatever you are doing seems to be working for you so I would say don't even bother worrying about doing planks. Different things work for different people and planks have thier place, maybe is someone wants to do some total body toning in a short period of time. I'm not a huge fan of planks either but will occasionally do one if I'm home just watching TV or something. They used to make us do them sometimes in my contact kickboxing class and I would be like why? I just spent the last hour hitting stuff, twisting my waist while doing it repetatively and lifting my leg really high to kick the pad or bag, don't tell me I didn't work my abs!
One thing I want to throw out there as great for your abs with minimal concentration or work is a rebounder (mini-trampoline). I have a Bellicon and the action of jumping automatically engages your abs to stabillize you. It is better to focus a bit on holding in your abs but even if you don't you'll get some benefit. As someone who bores easily with traditional ab exercizes this is a total godsend for me. :drinker:0 -
Disagree with Point 1 here totally. I can squat 200KG\440Lb's to competition level - I'd have no chance if I had a weak core! Planks still work for me, BUT the difference is that I VARY mine. Most people don't do this, and just go for insane times -That's when they become a bit pointless.....
On point 2, I agree with part 1 - L-sits are brutal. Especially when I do them on rings. they do require a lot more technique\training than a plank variation. I've had no experience with hollow holds to comment on that.
Just a matter of perspective, squatting is good for strengthening the core, but not to the degree that targeted core strengthening can.
I realize that I have a very strong core and am way beyond the norm, however I don't find L-sits to be brutal, quite the opposite, I worked up to holding one on the floor flat palmed for 60 sec, and then stopped training them, switching over to only doing enough to maintain the skill because they are too easy.0 -
As for the comment from msf74.. For those who are time limited? Seriously, THIS point is EXACTLY where the variations come in!!:
RKC Plank - 30 seconds, build to 60 seconds
One Arm Plank - 30-60 seconds
One Leg Plank - 30-30 seconds
Mastered all of the above? RKC Plank with 10lb weight plate\Off-set the weight plate, I could go on.....
As for people with goals of general health, yes they could be of just as much use. More strength\stability around the lumbar spine\abdominals anyone?
But again, why would a general exerciser need to incorporate them into their plan when they can get sufficient core activation and stabilisation through activity alone?
I am not saying they are without benefit when they clearly are but the reality is that time would be better served on other exercises which more align to that person's goals in most cases.0 -
Well if you were to do a fair comparison with weights, you'd have to hold static position where resistance is it's highest. On a curl, that would be at about the halfway point. On a bench, that would be just about the chest at 5 or 6 inches.I just can't seem to get myself to want to do planks, i just don't see them being that great, despite their popularity. I'll admit i've never committed to them remotely for any time (and i'm considering doing it now, hence this post, just bc of my curiosity), but i just don't see the greatness in static exercise like that. I've tried it w\weights to make it more difficult but it still feels the same to me (plus it's mad boring).
When i do curls, i don't hold the dumbbell in one spot, when i do bench i don't hold the weight, i do full range movements that have a negative and a positive that i can add a large varying resistance to (I've done weighted planks w\a 45lb plate on my back, but adding much more than that is just pretty awkward and uncomfortable).
Someone tell me why i'm wrong...bc i'd like to know someone that has a really strong core that feels like this has attributed to it. For abs i do lots and lots of hanging leg raises, i do wipers, stuff like that which i feel has really attributed to my core strength. I haven't done a plank in 4 months and today i tried to see how long i could do (unfortunately i chose to do it on my chest day) and i got to 3 minutes and stopped, bc my chest was on fire from already being fatigued but my abs still felt pretty fresh....so this has only compounded my confusion as to why people think these are worth the time.
thanks
But planks AREN'T needed to get strong core or abs. If you want something more challenging that will bust your *kitten* try dragonflags.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I've found them to be beneficial to my riding as I am in a static position for hours and my core takes a beating on a long ride.0
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If you have a good workout routine that includes the big lifts e.g. Squats & Deadlifts - then I personally think Planks or any other kind of isometric core exercise is a waste of time. Heavy Squats & Deadlifts will hit your core better than any Plank ever will.0
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They're of very little use to me personally because I have to change my form slightly - my knees are an odd shape and the pressure (and pain!) goes straight there regardless of how good my form is. Sadly, every dance teacher I've ever had seems to have found planks to be OMG TEH MOST AMAZING EXERCISE EVER and won't accept bad form. Even had a gym instructor once who told me it didn't matter how bad my knees were as long as I had the right plank shape, so obviously I never asked him for help again...
By the time I've compensated for my knees, my core doesn't feel like it's working as hard and I might as well do an exercise I can do properly!0 -
Trained individuals will find little use from them. If you can hold a plank greater than 45 sec, chances are there is no training benefit.
Much better static ab exercises are hollow holds and L-sits. Better dynamic exercises are dragon flags and slow toes to bar leg raises. These exercises actually have the resistance necessary to build a strong core.
Disagree with Point 1 here totally. I can squat 200KG\440Lb's to competition level - I'd have no chance if I had a weak core! Planks still work for me, BUT the difference is that I VARY mine. Most people don't do this, and just go for insane times -That's when they become a bit pointless.....
On point 2, I agree with part 1 - L-sits are brutal. Especially when I do them on rings. they do require a lot more technique\training than a plank variation. I've had no experience with hollow holds to comment on that.
Dragon flags would be an advanced move as well IMHO. Would take a lot of training\technique to perform in comparison.
I do agree that they would both work the core better than a standard plank though. But I can get more than enough with Plank Variations
As for the comment from msf74.. For those who are time limited? Seriously, THIS point is EXACTLY where the variations come in!!:
RKC Plank - 30 seconds, build to 60 seconds
One Arm Plank - 30-60 seconds
One Leg Plank - 30-30 seconds
Mastered all of the above? RKC Plank with 10lb weight plate\Off-set the weight plate, I could go on.....
As for people with goals of general health, yes they could be of just as much use. More strength\stability around the lumbar spine\abdominals anyone?
And don't forget the walking planks. With straight arms move from side to side keeping perfect form.
or to make a plank more challenging after a minute or more of holding a straight arm plank do a series of push ups till you fatigue sets in.
I happen to really like planks though.0 -
Planks are useless for a man with your physique. Keep hanging and banging brother, that's what we are supposed to do in the Iron Dojo.
I agree with this guy, holding a plank for 3 minutes... I'm lucky to get to 1 minute, therefore, I'll keep doing them until i'm at a higher level of fitness.0 -
This thread is awesome, even though most of it is flying over my head.
I am overweight, have an embarrassing body fat percentage, and will have to Google all the exercises named, however I do planks almost every day at the end of my daily routine. I love them because, at about the 30 second mark, sweat is now falling from my face. At the 1 minute mark, I feel like I was kicked in the gut. I take a 30 second break and go for a second minute. At the end of this, assuming that I last, my body is shaking so bad from the effort that the lights downstairs have to be swaying. I agree with most of these posts that will say you are probably getting this or more from all the other stuff you can do. For us chubby guys exercising next to the bed, streaming a documentary on Netflix, it is an awesome exercise.
Congrats on all your achievements.0 -
As for the comment from msf74.. For those who are time limited? Seriously, THIS point is EXACTLY where the variations come in!!:
RKC Plank - 30 seconds, build to 60 seconds
One Arm Plank - 30-60 seconds
One Leg Plank - 30-30 seconds
Mastered all of the above? RKC Plank with 10lb weight plate\Off-set the weight plate, I could go on.....
As for people with goals of general health, yes they could be of just as much use. More strength\stability around the lumbar spine\abdominals anyone?
But again, why would a general exerciser need to incorporate them into their plan when they can get sufficient core activation and stabilisation through activity alone?
I am not saying they are without benefit when they clearly are but the reality is that time would be better served on other exercises which more align to that person's goals in most cases.
Yeah it's a fair point. If the general exerciser can get enough core activation and stabilisation from their activity alone then fair enough, not much core\ab work is required.. In that persons case, I wouldn't see a need to prescribe them Planks etc...
If we are talking about mr\miss general exerciser, then the people I'm looking at that could get the benefit are those who exercise, but get stopped from their core - i.e those who good morning out of the squat, or those who find the time to do back raises, but rush them and use their glutes like so many do etc etc0 -
Disagree with Point 1 here totally. I can squat 200KG\440Lb's to competition level - I'd have no chance if I had a weak core! Planks still work for me, BUT the difference is that I VARY mine. Most people don't do this, and just go for insane times -That's when they become a bit pointless.....
On point 2, I agree with part 1 - L-sits are brutal. Especially when I do them on rings. they do require a lot more technique\training than a plank variation. I've had no experience with hollow holds to comment on that.
Just a matter of perspective, squatting is good for strengthening the core, but not to the degree that targeted core strengthening can.
I realize that I have a very strong core and am way beyond the norm, however I don't find L-sits to be brutal, quite the opposite, I worked up to holding one on the floor flat palmed for 60 sec, and then stopped training them, switching over to only doing enough to maintain the skill because they are too easy.
Yeah, fair enough - Completely agree on part one again, same with deadlifts - I Pulled a PB Deadlift, and a comp PB squat in my last comp, felt like I'd done 30 minutes of abs, and I've been training for over 3 years!
Also, yes, reading it back, my "L-sits are brutal" was a but harshly worded... What I meant, is in comparison to a 5 minute plank, a 30 second L-sit works my core loads more. I also agree that for those of us with a strong core\background, they would become easy very quickly, and again, more than 60 seconds would not really be required.0 -
There are many different variations of the plank that are amazing for your core.
Plank Jacks
Mountain Climbers
Donkey Kicks
Side planks with leg lift
Etc etc etc.
But they all start with the basic plank, that's why they are important, but become less important once you move on to more complex movements.0 -
I just can't seem to get myself to want to do planks, i just don't see them being that great, despite their popularity. I'll admit i've never committed to them remotely for any time (and i'm considering doing it now, hence this post, just bc of my curiosity), but i just don't see the greatness in static exercise like that. I've tried it w\weights to make it more difficult but it still feels the same to me (plus it's mad boring).
When i do curls, i don't hold the dumbbell in one spot, when i do bench i don't hold the weight, i do full range movements that have a negative and a positive that i can add a large varying resistance to (I've done weighted planks w\a 45lb plate on my back, but adding much more than that is just pretty awkward and uncomfortable).
Someone tell me why i'm wrong...bc i'd like to know someone that has a really strong core that feels like this has attributed to it. For abs i do lots and lots of hanging leg raises, i do wipers, stuff like that which i feel has really attributed to my core strength. I haven't done a plank in 4 months and today i tried to see how long i could do (unfortunately i chose to do it on my chest day) and i got to 3 minutes and stopped, bc my chest was on fire from already being fatigued but my abs still felt pretty fresh....so this has only compounded my confusion as to why people think these are worth the time.
thanks
Do a 20 second pause squat with 75% of your normal working weight0 -
Try to do the push up plank or the leg lift plank0
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Yeah it's a fair point. If the general exerciser can get enough core activation and stabilisation from their activity alone then fair enough, not much core\ab work is required.. In that persons case, I wouldn't see a need to prescribe them Planks etc...
If we are talking about mr\miss general exerciser, then the people I'm looking at that could get the benefit are those who exercise, but get stopped from their core - i.e those who good morning out of the squat, or those who find the time to do back raises, but rush them and use their glutes like so many do etc etc
Yeah, agreed.
I think if there is something that most people lack though it is more to do with core rotation - which is odd really given it's a foundational movement and you think it would be focused on more.0 -
I don't know if this has a name*, but I found that planks were super boring as well. I discovered these while using straps to work my way up to handstand pushups:
From here you can tuck and extend the legs repeatedly.
I was also doing these: (I'm currently working my way back up to them after surgery.)
(*It seems like there's an equivalent to rule 34 for fitness: if you can do it with your body, there's a named exercise for it.)0 -
If you're doing hanging leg raises and wipers then add hanging pikes and skip the planks.
when i said i do hanging leg raises, i actually meant hanging pikes (i didn't know there was a different name for bringing it to your hands).
As for the person suggesting the rkc plakes, i youtubed that and that sounds great, i'll give that a go.
Thanks so much everyone for commenting it really helped solidify my thoughts on this.
As for my mention of wanting to do a human flag, that is just more of a 'cool/fun' goal i have, it's not my primary goal.
to the person that suggested hollow holds, i tried those and didn't really feel much from it., L-Sits seem like something i can work towards, i've never tried them, and i tried it just now and got to about 40 seconds, so maybe i'll keep trying those til i get to a minute as someone else suggested.
whomever said dragon flys, i started doing those as i first started leg lifts, but now they seem pretty easy
Waldo - for the suggestion on getting to a human, flag thanks alot i'll definatley give that a try.
Again, i didn't expect so many responses, and i really appreciate all the feedback, this has given me alot of new options to look into. I read alot online, but alot of times articles are designed for bringing in page views or a more general audience, so i really value everyone spending the time to give their input, thanks alot.
I already went to the gym today, but i'm pretty sure i'll be going back for an ab workout tonight w\all this info, thanks!0 -
So for a woman like me who has had two c-sections, planks are ideal in helping to restore the strength in the muscles that were cut into. Also, they are helpful for people who have to do pushups regularly (I'm active duty AF and pushups are part of the PFT). They are good for strenghtening the core in being stable and holding good position.0
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Once you can do a 60 second plank " just sitting there" start increasing intensity by contracting the glutes, quads, abs, and shoulders as tight as possible for the whole time. Then modify arms slightly forward and closer together, now contract like you are pulling your arms toward your feet, along with the prior contraction. 60 seconds will no longer be boring.0
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Muscles don't get confused. If you perform the same exercise over and over your muscles will adapt, and will improve at doing that particular exercise. If the exercise in question is a high quality one, including a full range of motion and progressive overload then you won't benefit by adding in a low quality isometric body-weight exercise.How about planks as just one more "plank" in your "platform?" The more different things you do to keep your muscles confused and working harder, the stronger they get, right?0 -
to the person that suggested hollow holds, i tried those and didn't really feel much from it., L-Sits seem like something i can work towards, i've never tried them, and i tried it just now and got to about 40 seconds, so maybe i'll keep trying those til i get to a minute as someone else suggested.
whomever said dragon flys, i started doing those as i first started leg lifts, but now they seem pretty easy
The trick with a hollow hold is to have your feet as close to the ground as possible without touching, your lower back flat on the ground, and arms overhead. To get your legs down like that with the back on the ground requires the abs to fight the glutes, arms overhead increases the load to lift the shoulders. For its simplicity it is a surprisingly difficult exercise to do well.
If dragon flags and leg lifts are even vaguely on the same plane of difficulty, you are doing the dragon flags wrong. To do them correct there should be no bend in the hips whatsoever as you go down and come back up, you should be straight just like a hollow hold (glutes should be fully flexed to keep you straight). There is also a tendency to not go low enough, they should be all the way to parallel. You can also hold a static dragon flag at parallel as dragon flags get easier.
If everything is still too easy, ab wheels will fix that real quick. Doing a full rollout on the toes with straight legs then coming back up is ridiculously hard.0 -
I love hearing about all these great exercises. If y'all know any that don't require working the upper body, I'd love to know. I have a bad trap/rhomboid problem (neuropathy) and can do very little if the move uses those muscles much at all.
I do a lot of backbends (no arms) or laybacks (flatter back) and up and find that it takes a good deal of ab strength. But any new suggestions that don't require arms would make my day! I even have to do weighted lying leg raises instead of hanging ab work because my upper body tenses/stabilizes too much while hanging by it. Sucks!0 -
Try RKC planks. Much harder. I dont try to hold my body in line, I try to become as solid as possible. Short reps with maximum tension. I think it helps my rigidity in squats and deads.
I dont do them often, but, I dont think they're useless. I definitely wouldn't make them MY primary abdominal exercise.0 -
Because they engage your entire core and they're tough.0
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