Building Muscle on a calorie deficit?

Out of curiosity what would you 'experts' say the difference it will have physique wise to maintain or just plump the lbm you have v.s. adding a small amount of muscle? I find this fascinating. (What would be the advantage of putting on muscle v.s. working on the muscle you have) :flowerforyou:

not sure what you mean by "Plump" the lbm vs adding a small amount of muscle....

For me I am not trying to build on my muscle...I may never do a "bulk" of any kind

For me tho advantage of putting on muscle is purely aesthetics atm...I do not plan on ever competeing in any sort of contest.

I suspect for some tho that is why they would do a bulk, to compete in body building contests, bikini contests etc. There are some amazing looking men and women on this site who do compete.

In the past three weeks of losing weight (therefore eating in a calorie deficit) I have lost five pounds of fat but gained 1lb of muscle. Yes you can lose weight and still gain muscle. You have to fuel your body properly but it is possible.

As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.

Okay, there are some errors in this statement that need to be cleared up.

If you're "eating at maintenance or even slight surplus" then you will stay the same weight or go up. So if you're losing fat, and your weight stays the same or goes up, then what's taking the place of the lost fat? If you can't gain muscle while losing fat, then eating at maintenance would mean not losing any fat and not gaining any muscle.

The thing is, it is not "nearly impossible" to lose fat while gaining muscle. It's actually quite easy. What it isn't, however, is fast. So most bodybuilding types would rather spend a few months adding muscle and fat at a surplus, which happens faster, and then cut the fat afterwards. If you're willing to go up and down in BF%, overall it's a quicker and more efficient way of doing it.

And we have a winner!
Last couple of months I've weighed pretty much the same...and yet my pants are loser (Based on the belt I wear needing a new hole punched in it), calipers say I have less body fat, and I am starting to see more definition. And the whole time eating at a deficit.
If I am losing fat, getting smaller, but staying at the same weight, something denser has to be replacing it.

Friend of mine is complaining she is down dress sizes, but still the same weight, but happy to report she is getting stronger...as in started struggling benching the bar alone, to now adding plates on it and doing sets. And her pics show she is getting definition (caption like "OMG! A bicep!")...so, smaller, more defined, same weight. Gee, what could it be?

x2. The "IMPOSSIBRU!!!" to build muscle on a deficit statement is extreme and wrong.

Impossible means that it CANNOT happen. Truth is, it CAN and it DOES. Particularly with newbies. Impossibility means NEVER.

Sounds like you are fairly new to lifting. If true, you will pack on some mass and what you have will change shape.

As said above, lift heavy and eat at a deficit. You will gain muscle. you will lose fat. Eventually, you will stop the muscle gains. Then, you will need to eat more to add muscle.

Good luck!

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

tl;dr: Unless you overfat and a beginner, it is very very hard.

I didn't read it that way. I read it as (outside of the above) muscle gains can occur, but never anywhere near the rate of fat loss.

Mass is added in an energy surplus and subtracted in a deficit. Even while dieting you have periods of time in the day where you are in a surplus (around meals). With proper training and nutrients you could manipulate the ratio of fat and muscle change.

There are plenty of studies that show an increase in LBM while being in an overall calorie deficit for a given length of time. So saying it is impossible is not correct but it is a matter of degree.

The amount of calories you are from maintenance changes the net gain or loss of fat and muscle. If you are in a 500 calorie deficit or a 50 calorie deficit makes a big difference.

It is more of a sliding scale as opposed to an on/off switch. If someone said they added muscle and lost fat while eating at maintenance (the normal recomp) no one would have a problem with it. It may be slow and inefficient compared to other methods but no one would say its impossible.

If they said they added muscle and lost fat while in a deficit then it gets a little complicated. What if the deficit was only a 100 calories? It might vary the amount of change in each but you could still end up with a net gain and loss in each. If it was a 500+ calorie deficit then it starts to get to a point where they would barely be able to repair and replace any muscle lost or damage from working out let alone have a net increase.

I am trying to build more muscle (more weights, less cardio), but I also need to lose about 5-8 pounds of fat . I read that you can't build muscle that well on a calorie deficit. But... if I don't eat at a calorie deficit, how will I lose the fat? I'm thinking if I eat at a maintenance level or above to gain muscle - I'll still have fat on top of the muscle.... Can anyone debunk this for me? How would you go about it?

So here's the dealio. Is it TECHNICALLY possible to gain muscle while on a deficit... technically yes but in very small amounts and incredibly slowly.

Your best bet is to eat at maintenance (or your TDEE) and lift heavy so that you build muscle. Once you've built some muscle your body's metabolism will rise because of the need to fuel your newfound guns, and while that happens you'll shed bodyfat. You may not LOSE WEIGHT because of the increase in muscle, but you will look toned and fit and probably exactly like what you're looking for.

Look into "body recomposition" since that's what it sounds like you're really after.

I will look into the body recomposition. I think you're right. Thanks!

you got it!

Mass is added in an energy surplus and subtracted in a deficit. Even while dieting you have periods of time in the day where you are in a surplus (around meals). With proper training and nutrients you could manipulate the ratio of fat and muscle change.

There are plenty of studies that show an increase in LBM while being in an overall calorie deficit for a given length of time. So saying it is impossible is not correct but it is a matter of degree.

The amount of calories you are from maintenance changes the net gain or loss of fat and muscle. If you are in a 500 calorie deficit or a 50 calorie deficit makes a big difference.

It is more of a sliding scale as opposed to an on/off switch. If someone said they added muscle and lost fat while eating at maintenance (the normal recomp) no one would have a problem with it. It may be slow and inefficient compared to other methods but no one would say its impossible.

If they said they added muscle and lost fat while in a deficit then it gets a little complicated. What if the deficit was only a 100 calories? It might vary the amount of change in each but you could still end up with a net gain and loss in each. If it was a 500+ calorie deficit then it starts to get to a point where they would barely be able to repair and replace any muscle lost or damage from working out let alone have a net increase.

So much this.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

tl;dr: Unless you overfat and a beginner, it is very very hard.

Yes. Read this.

As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.

Okay, there are some errors in this statement that need to be cleared up.

If you're "eating at maintenance or even slight surplus" then you will stay the same weight or go up. So if you're losing fat, and your weight stays the same or goes up, then what's taking the place of the lost fat? If you can't gain muscle while losing fat, then eating at maintenance would mean not losing any fat and not gaining any muscle.

The thing is, it is not "nearly impossible" to lose fat while gaining muscle. It's actually quite easy. What it isn't, however, is fast. So most bodybuilding types would rather spend a few months adding muscle and fat at a surplus, which happens faster, and then cut the fat afterwards. If you're willing to go up and down in BF%, overall it's a quicker and more efficient way of doing it.

And we have a winner!
Last couple of months I've weighed pretty much the same...and yet my pants are loser (Based on the belt I wear needing a new hole punched in it), calipers say I have less body fat, and I am starting to see more definition. And the whole time eating at a deficit.
If I am losing fat, getting smaller, but staying at the same weight, something denser has to be replacing it.

Friend of mine is complaining she is down dress sizes, but still the same weight, but happy to report she is getting stronger...as in started struggling benching the bar alone, to now adding plates on it and doing sets. And her pics show she is getting definition (caption like "OMG! A bicep!")...so, smaller, more defined, same weight. Gee, what could it be?

So it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. I feel this is what has been happening with me, my scale stays the same but I am going down in sizes and fitting into target garments as well as losing inches. I think this is the way I would like to approach my journey.

http://body-improvements.com/2013/09/04/can-you-build-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

http://body-improvements.com/2012/08/22/qa-how-can-i-go-about-building-some-muscle/

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

I am trying to build more muscle (more weights, less cardio), but I also need to lose about 5-8 pounds of fat . I read that you can't build muscle that well on a calorie deficit. But... if I don't eat at a calorie deficit, how will I lose the fat? I'm thinking if I eat at a maintenance level or above to gain muscle - I'll still have fat on top of the muscle.... Can anyone debunk this for me? How would you go about it?

No...can't debunk because it is truth. To build muscle requires a calorie surplus...just as it requires a calorie surplus to "build" fat stores. Anabolic is anabolic whether you are talking about fat or muscle and you cannot be both catabolic and anabolic at the same time. If it were possible to gain muscle on a deficit, it would also be possible to gain fat at a deficit of energy Basically, this is why people go through cut and bulk cycles...it is the most efficient way of cutting fat and then bulking on lean mass...but you always put back on a little fat as well with a bulk, so you have to cut that fat again.

While you are cutting fat you weight train to preserve that muscle...because it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really.....really hard to build. Very often, people mistake that uncovering of the muscle to be new muscle growth...it is not...it was always there...it was just covered up and may not have been as firm...your muscles also retain a lot of fluids when you train them, thus giving them a "pumped" look

QFT. I just spent the last 20 weeks bulking and gained a whopping 3.5 lbs (2 from muscle). And it was HARD.

Appy85 - the original poster only wants a weight change of 5-10lbs. Since you have a bit more weight to lose, my recommendation is going to be slightly different. In your case, I would continue to eat at a calorie deficit - anywhere from 200-500 calories. While doing that, I would do a full-body circuit style weight training routine 2-3 times a week (so, you do one exercise, move right to next, next, etc. Instead of the typical exercise, rest, same exercise, rest before moving onto next exercise).

Doing a circuit training routine with fairly heavy weights helps to maintain muscle/strength while at the same time keeping your heart rate higher than a typical horizontal routine (meaning you'll burn more calories while lifting). Also, they are shorter than traditional routines meaning you'll still have time for moderate intensity cardio, which is still going to be your #1 way to lose weight overall (with appropriate diet).

Let me know if you have any other questions or would like more details and good luck!

(Just to note, as always - I'm not a certified personal trainer. These are just my opinions based on the research I've done and what I've found successful with others I have helped)

Thanks so much this is what I am doing actually just because I didn't really know what to do at the gym, so I would go from one machine to the next since I can't run on the treadmill (torn ligaments in my ankle). I would walk on the treadmill about 30 mins and then go to the shoulder press machine, do 5 sets of 20 45 lbs, then the chest press machine,do 5 sets of 20 45 lbs, then the butterfly or hugging machine (I don't know what it is called) do 5 sets of 20 45 lbs, and the lat machine, do 5 sets of 20 45 lbs. I haven't used the leg press machines because of my ankle but I do bicep curls with the dumbbells and I use my medicine ball with my stability ball to work on my core. This is what got me to the 21 lb loss and 14 inches over my whole body loss. I will just keep doing more of the same then, and I am eating 1100 calories a day, protein, fruits, and veggies. I occasionally will eat something out of the norm with family (3 times since I started) but I will go to the gym twice that day to off set that choice. Thanks for the reply and I will use your advice.