So you'll lose muscle on a vegan diet?

mazmataz
mazmataz Posts: 331 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Not according to this dude, UFC fighter Mac Danzig:

http://www.ufc.ca/news/Mac-Danzig-Diet-The-Truth-About-Vegan
The truth of the matter is that protein requirements are blown all out of proportion. We are led to believe that we need huge of amounts of protein for physical activity. People have been saying that for so long. The fact of the matter is, even if I did eat meat I wouldn’t be so focused on my protein intake.

The only reason I bring it up is that I've started a sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet and the only issue I've had has been with the Protein Police telling me that I'll lose fat and muscle. I feel so much better (which I actually attribute to having cut down on dairy) and I have much more energy for my workouts.

Just food for thought ;-)
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Replies

  • jlclabo
    jlclabo Posts: 588 Member
    vegan or not, you are still getting protein in forms other than meat. vegetable proteins are just as good of a source as meat proteins. but irregardless you have to have protein in some form to build muscle, no other way to do it.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    I don't see how a quote from some UFC fighter is proof of anything. The data showing the importance of protein is out there. I'd love to see exactly what this guy eats. My suspicion is that his diet includes plenty of protein.

    In regard to vegetable sources of protein, they're generally considered lesser quality than animal protein. That's because protein is really just a collection of amino acids. Plant proteins have a different amino acid profile than animal protein (same base amino acids but in different amounts). So if you're using plant proteins as your main protein source, you could be getting 10x more methionine than you need to build muscle, but not enough leucine. That's not an issue with animal protein sources.
  • jlclabo
    jlclabo Posts: 588 Member
    I don't see how a quote from some UFC fighter is proof of anything. The data showing the importance of protein is out there. I'd love to see exactly what this guy eats. My suspicion is that his diet includes plenty of protein.

    In regard to vegetable sources of protein, they're generally considered lesser quality than animal protein. That's because protein is really just a collection of amino acids. Plant proteins have a different amino acid profile than animal protein (same base amino acids but in different amounts). So if you're using plant proteins as your main protein source, you could be getting 10x more methionine than you need to build muscle, but not enough leucine. That's not an issue with animal protein sources.

    by just as good, i was meaning if you dont eat meat for a protein source then plant protein will do. i am by no means a vegan, lol.... i have a freezer full of bambi that gets grilled on a daily basis, plus chicken, fish, beef, and pork. i dont discriminate, lol
  • mazmataz
    mazmataz Posts: 331 Member
    He does say that he will try and get around 80g of protein a day, but doesn't subscribe to the 1g per lb of body weight formula. If you want to know what he eats, take a look at the article...

    I'm not trying to push the point either way, just opening it up for discussion as there are somepeople out there who think that a vegan diet and muscle maintaining/building training schedule can't work together.
  • trojan_bb
    trojan_bb Posts: 699 Member
    When that guy competed, he only had a lean mass of like 130 lbs. So he really didn't have muscle to begin with and it's no wonder he was fine with only 80g or 100g or whatever it is he advocates. 80g is much easier to do on a vegan diet than say 200g for a 230lb male.
  • somefitsomefat
    somefitsomefat Posts: 445 Member
    sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet
    Hmmm...no.
    vegan-police.gif
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    When that guy competed, he only had a lean mass of like 130 lbs. So he really didn't have muscle to begin with and it's no wonder he was fine with only 80g or 100g or whatever it is he advocates. 80g is much easier to do on a vegan diet than say 200g for a 230lb male.
    I came to say the same. No disrespect to him, but he's not a big guy by any measure. Maintaining what you have will require less than building more, too.
  • hiroselee
    hiroselee Posts: 5 Member
    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.
  • magerum
    magerum Posts: 12,589 Member
    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif
  • mazmataz
    mazmataz Posts: 331 Member
    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif

    Haha^^

    You know that a 'scientific fact' is only a fact until it's disproven? A source, or at the very least a wikipedia link would be appreciated alongside any 'scientific facts'. I'm not discrediting anything that anyone has said, it just keeps the debate more authentic rather than built on BS :-)
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif

    Haha^^

    You know that a 'scientific fact' is only a fact until it's disproven? A source, or at the very least a wikipedia link would be appreciated alongside any 'scientific facts'. I'm not discrediting anything that anyone has said, it just keeps the debate more authentic rather than built on BS :-)

    Read up...

    http://www.nutritionexpress.com/article+index/authors/jeff+s+volek+phd+rd/showarticle.aspx?articleid=807

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet
    Hmmm...no.
    vegan-police.gif

    ^Have to agree. If your a vegan, your a vegan. Not most of the time, not 80% of the time..you are or you aren't. Now you can have a primarily based vegan diet or whatnot..but that doesn't make you vegan. :laugh:
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    When that guy competed, he only had a lean mass of like 130 lbs. So he really didn't have muscle to begin with and it's no wonder he was fine with only 80g or 100g or whatever it is he advocates. 80g is much easier to do on a vegan diet than say 200g for a 230lb male.

    Interesting when you put the data out like that versus just saying 80g of protein. Makes a pretty big difference.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif

    x2
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.

    You know how you know when someone doesn't have a clue about what they are talking about? When they making insulting generalizing statements yet provide nothing to really back their argument.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.

    You're jacked bro.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.

    You're jacked bro.
    Totally
    cousin-eddie.jpg
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
    Bro
  • Galatea_Stone
    Galatea_Stone Posts: 2,037 Member
    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.

    You're jacked bro.

    I see a little growth in his uvulus and upper dorsimus.

    f7d3ee12-bdd7-466b-9515-d35ef9460f6a_zps3a17fa01.jpg
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Bro

    Jus sayin
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.
    Muscle and strength are not the same thing.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.
    You can get stronger even if all that is left on your frame is essential muscle; neuromuscular adaptation. Protein is important to building and sustaining muscle, whether you like it or not -- that's what the science says, and until such a time as science supports the claims of vegan propaganda advocates, most people will be better served by a diet higher in protein when pursuing frequent, intense exercise with the aim of improving of their physique.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    He does say that he will try and get around 80g of protein a day, but doesn't subscribe to the 1g per lb of body weight formula. If you want to know what he eats, take a look at the article...

    He didn't say how much protein he was eating when he was competing. The exact quote he gave was this:
    You don’t need one gram of protein per pound of body weight. You don’t need that at all. If you are regularly active and at a good weight, if you get more than 80 grams of protein a day then you are fine. The body can’t even process more than that, your liver can’t process more than that. If you give your body too much protein then it’s either going to turn it into energy or to fat. And your liver has to do all that.”

    So he gets more than 80 grams. He might have gotten a lot more when he was competing.
  • BigVeggieDream
    BigVeggieDream Posts: 1,101 Member
    There are a lot of vegan body builders out there. And Carl Lewis won 10 olympic medals, 8 of them gold, on a vegan diet.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,222 Member
    There are a lot of vegan body builders out there. And Carl Lewis won 10 olympic medals, 8 of them gold, on a vegan diet.
    Actually he won 9 gold and 6 gold and 1 silver were won before he was vegan. After turning vegan he won gold twice in the 4x100 and a gold the long jump. Didn't you even look at his record or did you just believe some other vegan source, serious question.
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
    You don’t need one gram of protein per pound of body weight. You don’t need that at all. If you are regularly active and at a good weight, if you get more than 80 grams of protein a day then you are fine. The body can’t even process more than that, your liver can’t process more than that. If you give your body too much protein then it’s either going to turn it into energy or to fat. And your liver has to do all that.”
    My liver has to do all that (process dietary protein into energy or fat) but my liver cannot process more than 80 grams per day.

    So the obvious question is, "what happens to the other 70 grams per day that I ingest?"

    I mean, if he's right then it clearly cannot possibly be turning into fat OR being used for energy. Is it just falling out of my body, or building up somewhere, or perhaps being processed/eliminated by leprechauns?
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    You do not have to lose muscle on a vegan diet. However, the article is riddled with bs.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    There are a lot of vegan body builders out there. And Carl Lewis won 10 olympic medals, 8 of them gold, on a vegan diet.

    I would love to see a statistical analysis of how many vegans there are in the world v how many elite level vegan athletes (particularly ones who have been vegan for at least the majority of their training life). Until you do that, the fact that some are and Carl Lewis was for a point in time is moot.

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