So you'll lose muscle on a vegan diet?

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mazmataz
mazmataz Posts: 331 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Not according to this dude, UFC fighter Mac Danzig:

http://www.ufc.ca/news/Mac-Danzig-Diet-The-Truth-About-Vegan
The truth of the matter is that protein requirements are blown all out of proportion. We are led to believe that we need huge of amounts of protein for physical activity. People have been saying that for so long. The fact of the matter is, even if I did eat meat I wouldn’t be so focused on my protein intake.

The only reason I bring it up is that I've started a sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet and the only issue I've had has been with the Protein Police telling me that I'll lose fat and muscle. I feel so much better (which I actually attribute to having cut down on dairy) and I have much more energy for my workouts.

Just food for thought ;-)
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Replies

  • jlclabo
    jlclabo Posts: 588 Member
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    vegan or not, you are still getting protein in forms other than meat. vegetable proteins are just as good of a source as meat proteins. but irregardless you have to have protein in some form to build muscle, no other way to do it.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
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    I don't see how a quote from some UFC fighter is proof of anything. The data showing the importance of protein is out there. I'd love to see exactly what this guy eats. My suspicion is that his diet includes plenty of protein.

    In regard to vegetable sources of protein, they're generally considered lesser quality than animal protein. That's because protein is really just a collection of amino acids. Plant proteins have a different amino acid profile than animal protein (same base amino acids but in different amounts). So if you're using plant proteins as your main protein source, you could be getting 10x more methionine than you need to build muscle, but not enough leucine. That's not an issue with animal protein sources.
  • jlclabo
    jlclabo Posts: 588 Member
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    I don't see how a quote from some UFC fighter is proof of anything. The data showing the importance of protein is out there. I'd love to see exactly what this guy eats. My suspicion is that his diet includes plenty of protein.

    In regard to vegetable sources of protein, they're generally considered lesser quality than animal protein. That's because protein is really just a collection of amino acids. Plant proteins have a different amino acid profile than animal protein (same base amino acids but in different amounts). So if you're using plant proteins as your main protein source, you could be getting 10x more methionine than you need to build muscle, but not enough leucine. That's not an issue with animal protein sources.

    by just as good, i was meaning if you dont eat meat for a protein source then plant protein will do. i am by no means a vegan, lol.... i have a freezer full of bambi that gets grilled on a daily basis, plus chicken, fish, beef, and pork. i dont discriminate, lol
  • mazmataz
    mazmataz Posts: 331 Member
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    He does say that he will try and get around 80g of protein a day, but doesn't subscribe to the 1g per lb of body weight formula. If you want to know what he eats, take a look at the article...

    I'm not trying to push the point either way, just opening it up for discussion as there are somepeople out there who think that a vegan diet and muscle maintaining/building training schedule can't work together.
  • trojan_bb
    trojan_bb Posts: 699 Member
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    When that guy competed, he only had a lean mass of like 130 lbs. So he really didn't have muscle to begin with and it's no wonder he was fine with only 80g or 100g or whatever it is he advocates. 80g is much easier to do on a vegan diet than say 200g for a 230lb male.
  • somefitsomefat
    somefitsomefat Posts: 445 Member
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    sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet
    Hmmm...no.
    vegan-police.gif
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    When that guy competed, he only had a lean mass of like 130 lbs. So he really didn't have muscle to begin with and it's no wonder he was fine with only 80g or 100g or whatever it is he advocates. 80g is much easier to do on a vegan diet than say 200g for a 230lb male.
    I came to say the same. No disrespect to him, but he's not a big guy by any measure. Maintaining what you have will require less than building more, too.
  • hiroselee
    hiroselee Posts: 5 Member
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    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
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    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.
  • magerum
    magerum Posts: 12,589 Member
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    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif
  • mazmataz
    mazmataz Posts: 331 Member
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    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif

    Haha^^

    You know that a 'scientific fact' is only a fact until it's disproven? A source, or at the very least a wikipedia link would be appreciated alongside any 'scientific facts'. I'm not discrediting anything that anyone has said, it just keeps the debate more authentic rather than built on BS :-)
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
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    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif

    Haha^^

    You know that a 'scientific fact' is only a fact until it's disproven? A source, or at the very least a wikipedia link would be appreciated alongside any 'scientific facts'. I'm not discrediting anything that anyone has said, it just keeps the debate more authentic rather than built on BS :-)

    Read up...

    http://www.nutritionexpress.com/article+index/authors/jeff+s+volek+phd+rd/showarticle.aspx?articleid=807

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    sort of part-time 80/20 vegan diet
    Hmmm...no.
    vegan-police.gif

    ^Have to agree. If your a vegan, your a vegan. Not most of the time, not 80% of the time..you are or you aren't. Now you can have a primarily based vegan diet or whatnot..but that doesn't make you vegan. :laugh:
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    When that guy competed, he only had a lean mass of like 130 lbs. So he really didn't have muscle to begin with and it's no wonder he was fine with only 80g or 100g or whatever it is he advocates. 80g is much easier to do on a vegan diet than say 200g for a 230lb male.

    Interesting when you put the data out like that versus just saying 80g of protein. Makes a pretty big difference.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    Great job starting to get into the vegan diet :) I eat mostly vegan/plant-based as well minus the occasional fish. It is definitely a bunch of propaganda that the vegan diet or plant-based protein is inferior to animal protein.

    It's not propaganda, it's scientific fact. The amino acid profile in animal based proteins is superior to that in plant based proteins. Sure you can compensate by eating a ridiculous amount of protein from plants, but the Bio-availability of animal based protein is much higher than that of plant based protein and there's a higher amount of Branched-Chained Amino Acids present in animal proteins, specifically Leucine which regulates protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

    giphy.gif

    x2
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
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    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.

    You know how you know when someone doesn't have a clue about what they are talking about? When they making insulting generalizing statements yet provide nothing to really back their argument.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.

    You're jacked bro.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Idiots will yap about protein all day long. Ignore the bros. They say you'll lost muscle, but they have NEVER tried it. Still waiting to lose mine. I have gained strength, not lost it.

    You're jacked bro.
    Totally
    cousin-eddie.jpg
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
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    Bro

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