You can't build muscle at a calorie deficit? Why lift??

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  • willboywonder
    willboywonder Posts: 134 Member
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    Great question. It's a catch 22. It's hard to lose weight, because lifting converts the fats to muscle. So we dont lose. It just gets re positioned. One important reason why we should lift is this:

    Lifting weights is the cornerstone for building muscle and strengthening bones. As we age, we lose a percentage of muscle mass and bone density with each year we get older. The percentage we lose increases the older we get. Lifting weights helps to slow how quickly we lose it. It also helps guard against osteoporosis and arthritis and helps us to maintain balance. Loss of balance is the number one cause of injuries for people 35 and older. Weightlifting helps us to keep our muscles, bone density, and balance a little longer than those who do not lift weights. Once it's gone, we don't get it back. So it's better to try to keep it.
  • Cameron_1969
    Cameron_1969 Posts: 2,857 Member
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    Great question. It's a catch 22. It's hard to lose weight, because lifting converts the fats to muscle. So we dont lose. It just gets re positioned. One important reason why we should lift is this:

    uh oh
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    Great question. It's a catch 22. It's hard to lose weight, because lifting converts the fats to muscle. So we dont lose. It just gets re positioned. One important reason why we should lift is this:

    uh oh

    Yea, fat isn't converted to muscle.
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
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    it depends on what you do. I did a "build phase" where I did manageable sets (e.g. 50lbs benchpress x 8 reps). Now that I'm in a "strength phase" I'm increasing the weight and doing less (e.g. 75lbs benchpress x 4 reps).

    I developed nice toned arms in the build phase, but now that i'm in the strength phase it is much more noticeable and I don't even have to flex (*pops collar and puts on sunglasses*).

    What are you goals?

    Do you mean fitness goals or weight loss goals?

    Weight loss - I'm 5'5", CW 187, current GW is 138. But that's subject to change depending on a number of things. But really, even if I get really fit and toned, I think mid-130s is a reasonable weight goal.

    Fitness goals - To be honest, I've never really been what you'd call "fit". I am naturally very unathletic and have low muscle tone. In high school I was about 125 pounds and was very active with dance and pom-pons. (I know, that's sort of an athletic activity, but trust me, you don't want me on your softball team). Even in high school i was flabby and not really very fit.

    So I don't really have defined fitness goals I suppose. I just want to not totally suck. And to wear shorts and a tank top when it's 100 degrees without thinking about my flabby arms and thighs. That would be really great.

    You can do this. I have a feeling you are going to get the body of your dreams. I hope you do. It just makes me sad to read people saying they suck. Lifting will change your body, but it will do incredible things for your mind.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    Great question. It's a catch 22. It's hard to lose weight, because lifting converts the fats to muscle. So we dont lose. It just gets re positioned. One important reason why we should lift is this:

    Lifting weights is the cornerstone for building muscle and strengthening bones. As we age, we lose a percentage of muscle mass and bone density with each year we get older. The percentage we lose increases the older we get. Lifting weights helps to slow how quickly we lose it. It also helps guard against osteoporosis and arthritis and helps us to maintain balance. Loss of balance is the number one cause of injuries for people 35 and older. Weightlifting helps us to keep our muscles, bone density, and balance a little longer than those who do not lift weights. Once it's gone, we don't get it back. So it's better to try to keep it.

    -1 for a poor first post.
  • Cameron_1969
    Cameron_1969 Posts: 2,857 Member
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    Great question. It's a catch 22. It's hard to lose weight, because lifting converts the fats to muscle. So we dont lose. It just gets re positioned. One important reason why we should lift is this:

    Lifting weights is the cornerstone for building muscle and strengthening bones. As we age, we lose a percentage of muscle mass and bone density with each year we get older. The percentage we lose increases the older we get. Lifting weights helps to slow how quickly we lose it. It also helps guard against osteoporosis and arthritis and helps us to maintain balance. Loss of balance is the number one cause of injuries for people 35 and older. Weightlifting helps us to keep our muscles, bone density, and balance a little longer than those who do not lift weights. Once it's gone, we don't get it back. So it's better to try to keep it.

    -1 for a poor first post.

    :drinker:
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    Also. . how do you build strength without building muscle?

    building muscle means BUILDING- so adding size- mass.

    gaining strength means you are getting stronger. You don't have to get bigger to get stronger.


    I also use the sedentary TDEE and add in my calories- it made sense to my brain to do it that way since I don't have regular workouts. Glad to know I'm not the only one who does it that way. I was gaining and MFP didn't like gaining at the time. So it worked for me!!!
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    Sir. .you have just accomplished something never before seen on MFP. . You won an argument. . I salute you. :drinker: :drinker:
    Wait, what happens now?!?! I feel like George when he swallowed a fly! Should we call a doctor or something?
  • Cameron_1969
    Cameron_1969 Posts: 2,857 Member
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    Also. . how do you build strength without building muscle?

    building muscle means BUILDING- so adding size- mass.

    gaining strength means you are getting stronger. You don't have to get bigger to get stronger.


    I also use the sedentary TDEE and add in my calories- it made sense to my brain to do it that way since I don't have regular workouts. Glad to know I'm not the only one who does it that way. I was gaining and MFP didn't like gaining at the time. So it worked for me!!!

    I agree. It's a point of semantics . One can certainly get stronger without significantly adding inches. .However as muscles get stronger, they get denser. . so there is an increase in mass (per cubic inch). . I always felt that any increase in density was 'building muscle' regardless of whether that translated to bulging biceps.

    As for the sedentary TDEE approach. . through the course of this thread I discovered that I'm doing it WRONG! :tongue: I did actually includ four days of crossfit into my TDEE. .so now I have to either recalculate or just stop eating my calories back (which I don't usually do anyway). I think I'll recalculate as sedentary as I have a chaotic life and schedule and never know what's going to happen from day to day.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    Also. . how do you build strength without building muscle?

    building muscle means BUILDING- so adding size- mass.

    gaining strength means you are getting stronger. You don't have to get bigger to get stronger.


    I also use the sedentary TDEE and add in my calories- it made sense to my brain to do it that way since I don't have regular workouts. Glad to know I'm not the only one who does it that way. I was gaining and MFP didn't like gaining at the time. So it worked for me!!!

    I agree. It's a point of semantics . One can certainly get stronger without significantly adding inches. .However as muscles get stronger, they get denser. . so there is an increase in mass (per cubic inch). . I always felt that any increase in density was 'building muscle' regardless of whether that translated to bulging biceps.

    As for the sedentary TDEE approach. . through the course of this thread I discovered that I'm doing it WRONG! :tongue: I did actually includ four days of crossfit into my TDEE. .so now I have to either recalculate or just stop eating my calories back (which I don't usually do anyway). I think I'll recalculate as sedentary as I have a chaotic life and schedule and never know what's going to happen from day to day.

    I'd say an increase in density. so you are packing more mass into the same volume- so it's becoming more dense- not more massive.

    D = M/V

    If you are getting mass- you have more density- and more volume. D* V = M.

    seems pretty straight forward to me. Size is size. strength is not always size. yes there is correlation- but in terms of lifting- mass is about size gains- not density gains.

    Density gains are about strength.

    Good thing about the TDEE stuff- I much prefer doing sedentary and eating back- some days I have only 3 workouts- some days I have 3 workouts + 3 days including dance work... it is just so inconsistent- so for me it works. I also only eat back about 50-75% of my exercise calories to act as a factor of safety of the typical "under" calorie count of food and the "over" estimate of workout calories.
    It's worked out extremely well for me. :)
  • kcm105
    kcm105 Posts: 50 Member
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    You can do this. I have a feeling you are going to get the body of your dreams. I hope you do. It just makes me sad to read people saying they suck. Lifting will change your body, but it will do incredible things for your mind.

    I hope you're right! I will say that although I've been through this before, this is the first time I've ever exercised from the very beginning rather than relying strictly on eating less for weight loss. And it's certainly the first time I've ever decided to make lifting a part of my workout routine.

    Also, I feel like my expectations are a lot more realistic now, which has really been a huge motivator for me. I won't be in a bikini by June, and that's really alright with me. But I might be able to confidently wear a tank top by July, and THAT would be awesome.
  • MzHornedOne
    MzHornedOne Posts: 71 Member
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    Because the more muscle you have the more calories you burn through out the day. You will burn fat when you build muscle! But you have to eat! No calorie deficit required when you lift. Just LOTS of protein and healthy eating :D
  • redheaddee
    redheaddee Posts: 2,005 Member
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    It improves your quality of life as you gaining body confidence. Strength training will not only make you strong, but will also help with managing your weight.

    This one is the big one. The body confidence. I am still 30 to 50 pounds from where I want to end up, but I am so much happier with what I see in the mirror, how clothes fit me, and definitely how I feel. the things I can and want to do now because of my increased strength are absolutely phenomenal.
  • alexis831
    alexis831 Posts: 469 Member
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    I build muscle on a deficit all the time and I eat a ton of carbs with little protein as well. I also work my freakin butt off on cardio and weights. I am also on a strict -750 deficit and still gaining muscle. How do I know this and how do I know its not just my current muscle that is showing through? How do I know I am on a deficit and it is correct and I am not over or under estimating my workouts or food?
    First, I weigh all my food or most of it is packaged because I am a junk food junkie. Second, I have a fitbit that tracks my every step. I used my fitbit and my HRM to test how accurate it was and my fitbit was only off by about 5 calories on a 20 min HIIT workout compared to my HRM. In addition, being as though I am at a -750 deficit or more there is a little wiggle room for error, lol. When I can’t use a fitbit I use my HRM.

    So now we know I am tracking my calories in and out correctly. The gain in muscle can’t possibly be found there so lets move on.
    I started at 20.4% body fat at 110 pounds. 5 Weeks later I am at 18.4% Body fat and 111 pounds. I weigh only on Sunday’s in the morning at the same time every Sunday. Well it must be water weight then? My weight has been either staying the same or inclining slightly for 5 weeks on.

    This just can’t be true you say! As you can see by the picture my ab muscles are starting to really not only show from the fat loss but also build up. I figured in all I lost about 2-3 pounds of fat with the drop in body fat but went up a pound on my weight which means I gained around 3-4 pounds of muscle give or take. Its not exact of course as I would have be dunked in a tank to accurately measurer everything.

    Usually I average around 2 pounds a month of muscle gain, while on a deficit of -750 but in the first month I usually am a bit higher.
    It can be done people.. but not while pumping the little 3 pound weights ladies!
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    I build muscle on a deficit all the time and I eat a ton of carbs with little protein as well. I also work my freakin butt off on cardio and weights. I am also on a strict -750 deficit and still gaining muscle. How do I know this and how do I know its not just my current muscle that is showing through? How do I know I am on a deficit and it is correct and I am not over or under estimating my workouts or food?
    First, I weigh all my food or most of it is packaged because I am a junk food junkie. Second, I have a fitbit that tracks my every step. I used my fitbit and my HRM to test how accurate it was and my fitbit was only off by about 5 calories on a 20 min HIIT workout compared to my HRM. In addition, being as though I am at a -750 deficit or more there is a little wiggle room for error, lol. When I can’t use a fitbit I use my HRM.

    So now we know I am tracking my calories in and out correctly. The gain in muscle can’t possibly be found there so lets move on.
    I started at 20.4% body fat at 110 pounds. 5 Weeks later I am at 18.4% Body fat and 111 pounds. I weigh only on Sunday’s in the morning at the same time every Sunday. Well it must be water weight then? My weight has been either staying the same or inclining slightly for 5 weeks on.

    This just can’t be true you say! As you can see by the picture my ab muscles are starting to really not only show from the fat loss but also build up. I figured in all I lost about 2-3 pounds of fat with the drop in body fat but went up a pound on my weight which means I gained around 3-4 pounds of muscle give or take. Its not exact of course as I would have be dunked in a tank to accurately measurer everything.

    Usually I average around 2 pounds a month of muscle gain, while on a deficit of -750 but in the first month I usually am a bit higher.
    It can be done people.. but not while pumping the little 3 pound weights ladies!

    Well, where should I start?

    HRMs are only useful for steady state cardio and are not accurate for HIIT or strength training.

    The only people who "build muscle" on a deficit are newbies due to increased water retention and glycogen storage. Not actual muscle.

    I would be willing to be that you are measuring your bodyfat using a digital scale, which are also incredibly inaccurate.

    You stated you build muscle at a deficit "all the time", which makes it seem like you lift a lot, which would rule out newbie gains. And gaining 3lbs of pure muscle in 5 weeks is unlikely as well.
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    Oh, and at 110lbs, -750calorie deficit is far too extreme for you. I am guessing you are eating 900-1000 calories per day?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    I build muscle on a deficit all the time and I eat a ton of carbs with little protein as well. I also work my freakin butt off on cardio and weights. I am also on a strict -750 deficit and still gaining muscle. How do I know this and how do I know its not just my current muscle that is showing through? How do I know I am on a deficit and it is correct and I am not over or under estimating my workouts or food?
    First, I weigh all my food or most of it is packaged because I am a junk food junkie. Second, I have a fitbit that tracks my every step. I used my fitbit and my HRM to test how accurate it was and my fitbit was only off by about 5 calories on a 20 min HIIT workout compared to my HRM. In addition, being as though I am at a -750 deficit or more there is a little wiggle room for error, lol. When I can’t use a fitbit I use my HRM.

    So now we know I am tracking my calories in and out correctly. The gain in muscle can’t possibly be found there so lets move on.
    I started at 20.4% body fat at 110 pounds. 5 Weeks later I am at 18.4% Body fat and 111 pounds. I weigh only on Sunday’s in the morning at the same time every Sunday. Well it must be water weight then? My weight has been either staying the same or inclining slightly for 5 weeks on.

    This just can’t be true you say! As you can see by the picture my ab muscles are starting to really not only show from the fat loss but also build up. I figured in all I lost about 2-3 pounds of fat with the drop in body fat but went up a pound on my weight which means I gained around 3-4 pounds of muscle give or take. Its not exact of course as I would have be dunked in a tank to accurately measurer everything.

    Usually I average around 2 pounds a month of muscle gain, while on a deficit of -750 but in the first month I usually am a bit higher.
    It can be done people.. but not while pumping the little 3 pound weights ladies!

    do you believe in santa clause too?

    More than likely you are just losing body fat which is showing the muscle you already have.

    OR, you are eating more than you think and are actually closer to maintenance and have been recomping…

    I would go with option 1…

    Unless you are the only person in the history of weight training to be in 750 calorie deficit, do heavy cardio, lift, AND gain muscle…


    edited to add - three, you are on steroids….
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    Oh, and at 110lbs, -750calorie deficit is far too extreme for you. I am guessing you are eating 900-1000 calories per day?

    and gaining one to two pounds of muscle a month
  • sloth3toes
    sloth3toes Posts: 2,212 Member
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    I just want to not totally suck.

    In, for just not totally sucking. :smile:
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
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    Oh, and at 110lbs, -750calorie deficit is far too extreme for you. I am guessing you are eating 900-1000 calories per day?

    and gaining one to two pounds of muscle a month

    There are some professionals out there that would love this secret. A professional bodybuilding female would be hard pressed.....hard pressed to put on 3-5lbs of muscle in 9-12 mos doing a bulk/cut, yet poster did it in 5 weeks on a huge deficit.

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