Watched Forks and Knives. Now I'm thinking of trying this
Moonlitedi
Posts: 94 Member
So I was recently introduced to the documentary on Netflix called Forks and Knives and it had some new findings linking animal based products to cancers. It goes over and has evidence from studies that have been going on for decades and the evidence is pretty sound. I think I would like to to try this plant based meal plan and find vegan protein powders instead of whey and other such alternatives like food processing cauliflower sauteed to be a rice substitute. I would still take a multi-vitamin and b-12 supplement. I heard Nutritional yeast is a good substitute for cheese and does not taste like erasers like some other "mock' products.
I have been a life long meat eater but after watching that documentary and seeing some facts and evidence, I would like to try this and see how it feels and if I have the urge to eat my husband in the middle of the night, I will stay strong and find some fruits or something else to munch on. hahaha This will be a big step for me as I have never done this before and was always opposed to it. I have an open mind when facts are present so lets see how it goes.
I'm looking for recipes now.
I would appreciate some of your favorites so I can try out.
I also have a lap-band which requires me to have a higher intake of protein. I found a Vegan Protein powder called Bodylogix at GNC and will pick that up for my shakes as well as my Unsweetened Vanilla Almond milk (30 calories) to add to it.
Lots of recipes would be great!
Thanks! ^_^
I have been a life long meat eater but after watching that documentary and seeing some facts and evidence, I would like to try this and see how it feels and if I have the urge to eat my husband in the middle of the night, I will stay strong and find some fruits or something else to munch on. hahaha This will be a big step for me as I have never done this before and was always opposed to it. I have an open mind when facts are present so lets see how it goes.
I'm looking for recipes now.
I would appreciate some of your favorites so I can try out.
I also have a lap-band which requires me to have a higher intake of protein. I found a Vegan Protein powder called Bodylogix at GNC and will pick that up for my shakes as well as my Unsweetened Vanilla Almond milk (30 calories) to add to it.
Lots of recipes would be great!
Thanks! ^_^
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Replies
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You may want to look into some dissenting opinions regarding "The China Study," which is what they base almost all of their research claims on.
This is a decent start: http://rawfoodsos.com/category/china-study/
There are dozens of others. I'm not going to tell you what to believe. But, I encourage you to fully investigate the issues and research before you decide to radically change your eating.0 -
There is a FOK cookbook!!
I took it out from the library and the recipes were really good!!! Here's my favorite!
Peanut Noodles with Broccoli
Serves 4
8 oz of brown rice noodles
4 cups broccoli (I actually used broccoli and also added onions, orange peppers, carrots and snow peas!!)
1 cup coconut water
3 TBS creamy peanut butter
2 TBS maple syrup (real, not the fake stuff)
2 TBS soy sauce
1 TBS grated fresh ginger
I parboiled the veggies first and then removed them with a slotted spoon and set those aside. Then you can cook the noodles in the same water.
Mix the coconut water through ginger directly in a large saucepan and cook on med heat until it comes together to make a thick sauce. This takes some time, just keep stirring!
Mix the noodles and the veggies in the sauce and serve! SO GOOD!!0 -
This by a mileYou may want to look into some dissenting opinions regarding "The China Study," which is what they base almost all of their research claims on.
This is a decent start: http://rawfoodsos.com/category/china-study/
There are dozens of others. I'm not going to tell you what to believe. But, I encourage you to fully investigate the issues and research before you decide to radically change your eating.
also
http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/0 -
Thanks! I will check this out!0
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For bookmarking purposes, b/c this sounds delicious!There is a FOK cookbook!! I took it out from the library and the recipes were really good!!! Here's my favorite!
Peanut Noodles with Broccoli
Serves 4
8 oz of brown rice noodles
4 cups broccoli (I actually used broccoli and also added onions, orange peppers, carrots and snow peas!!)
1 cup coconut water
3 TBS creamy peanut butter
2 TBS maple syrup (real, not the fake stuff)
2 TBS soy sauce
1 TBS grated fresh ginger
I parboiled the veggies first and then removed them with a slotted spoon and set those aside. Then you can cook the noodles in the same water.
Mix the coconut water through ginger directly in a large saucepan and cook on med heat until it comes together to make a thick sauce. This takes some time, just keep stirring!
Mix the noodles and the veggies in the sauce and serve! SO GOOD!!0 -
Forgot to include an ingredient for the sauce, my apologies! You also want to add crushed red pepper for a bit of heat!!0
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That recipe sounds amazing!
I forgot to mention, my stomach has a hard time eating noodles and bread. They tend to get stuck when I eat them.0 -
This by a mileYou may want to look into some dissenting opinions regarding "The China Study," which is what they base almost all of their research claims on.
This is a decent start: http://rawfoodsos.com/category/china-study/
There are dozens of others. I'm not going to tell you what to believe. But, I encourage you to fully investigate the issues and research before you decide to radically change your eating.
also
http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/
^^ this was a great read.
I've watched Forks over Knives, and it seems compelling and really sucks you in. I've given it a thought here and there, and my Dr has tried to push the China Study on me to help with weightloss....buuuttt I just don't want to give up eating animals.
Funny how researchers and authors will skew studies to bend the results in their favor and people hail them as a dietary genius...and then get mad when they are called out on it.0 -
While basing an opinion on one source is dangerous, the China Study should not be ignored; it is a series of experiments done over the course of twenty years, is peer-reviewed, and has been supplemented by several smaller studies. It's silly to think vegans are cranking out propaganda, as a previous poster commented- what would be their motive? Seems the meat and dairy industry have more to gain than the tiny percentage of the population that is vegan.
I eat a plant based diet and my diary is open, feel free to browse, OP. If you liked FOK, check out "Food Inc." it has some really good information in it. Also check out Dr. Estlestein and his work with cardiac patients. My transition to vegetarian was slow, I started just during the week, and gradually cut out meat. Be prepared for critsism, but its worth it if it's something you really want to do.0 -
Here's another great article critiquing the documentary. It's a semi-long read, but if you're really interested in getting to the bottom of it, I'd definitely recommend reading it:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/0 -
Don't go vegan or vegetarian because of a documentary. Do it because you want to.0
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While basing an opinion on one source is dangerous, the China Study should not be ignored; it is a series of experiments done over the course of twenty years, is peer-reviewed, and has been supplemented by several smaller studies. It's silly to think vegans are cranking out propaganda, as a previous poster commented- what would be their motive? Seems the meat and dairy industry have more to gain than the tiny percentage of the population that is vegan.
I eat a plant based diet and my diary is open, feel free to browse, OP. If you liked FOK, check out "Food Inc." it has some really good information in it. Also check out Dr. Estlestein and his work with cardiac patients. My transition to vegetarian was slow, I started just during the week, and gradually cut out meat. Be prepared for critsism, but its worth it if it's something you really want to do.
You would think it would be silly, but yet they do it all they time. There's a ton of vegan propaganda out there, whether the motives are based on morals, or self-righteousness or whatever, I see it every day. You may as well ask "Why do some vegans make other people feel guilty for eating meat?" I'm not saying all vegans do this, but the minority that do make the rest of the vegans look bad and leave a bad taste in people's mouth about vegans.0 -
I found this excerpt particularly interesting:Here's another great article critiquing the documentary. It's a semi-long read, but if you're really interested in getting to the bottom of it, I'd definitely recommend reading it:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/
"In my China Study critique last year, I pulled a bunch of data directly from “Diet, Life-style, and Mortality in China”—the same book Campbell and Chen are huddled around in that last picture—showing just how inconsistent the “plant-based diet is healthier” message really is. For instance, we’ve got peculiar things like this:
Plant protein has a correlation of 0.21 with heart disease (positive)
Non-fish animal protein has a correlation of 0.01 with heart disease (neutral)
Fish protein has a correlation of -0.11 with heart disease (inverse)
Meat intake has a correlation of -0.28 with heart disease (strongly inverse)
Fish intake has a correlation of -0.15 with heart disease (inverse)
Egg intake has a correlation of -0.13 with heart disease (inverse)
Wheat has a correlation of 0.67 with heart disease (really flippin’ high!)—which is not only the strongest association between any food and heart disease, but remained sky-high even when I tried adjusting for anything that might be confounding it.*"0 -
It's propaganda, not a documentary.0
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A documentary base on 1 way of thinking is ONLY going to show you the results of any study that supports their view point. Pick up a few books on nutrition and do some reading. Just one thing you will find, not mentioned in Forks Over Knives, plant proteins are far more difficult for the human body to process. They DO NOT break down the same, nor do they supply the same quality protein meat sources supply. Do you need mass amounts of protein in your diet? Probably not. Most people consume more than the body needs in a natural diet. But it's completely your call, your diet, your health.0
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While this idea of a plant based diet sounds interesting and not based off of animal treatment or morality. I was interested in the health aspects. I also watched a follow up on Dr. Oz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T0wQdLHeko 0 -
I can see the reason for the bad taste, but I think even vegans hate PETA. The links you've posted are great, seems like you've done your research. I'm veggie for a variety of reasons: humanitarian, enviornmental, disdain for agribusiness, ect; any health benefits are just a bonus.0
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Echoing what other's have said - there's a lot of research on both sides, and it will never be a simple "this or that" decision.
Personally, I think moderation in all aspects of life is the best course of action; I do eat animal products, but try not to go crazy on adding bacon to everything, haha. My husband and I went vegan last spring, mostly because I wanted to challenge myself in the kitchen, and it was honestly quite easy/tasty! (minus a few notable disasters!) I amassed a couple 'sure-thing' recipes and now try to incorporate them once or twice a week.
I do have vegan friends, and I admire their commitment, but veganism just isn't a workable option for me right now (mostly because I don't want to do it bad enough).0 -
While basing an opinion on one source is dangerous, the China Study should not be ignored; it is a series of experiments done over the course of twenty years, is peer-reviewed, and has been supplemented by several smaller studies. It's silly to think vegans are cranking out propaganda, as a previous poster commented- what would be their motive? Seems the meat and dairy industry have more to gain than the tiny percentage of the population that is vegan.
I eat a plant based diet and my diary is open, feel free to browse, OP. If you liked FOK, check out "Food Inc." it has some really good information in it. Also check out Dr. Estlestein and his work with cardiac patients. My transition to vegetarian was slow, I started just during the week, and gradually cut out meat. Be prepared for critsism, but its worth it if it's something you really want to do.
You would think it would be silly, but yet they do it all they time. There's a ton of vegan propaganda out there, whether the motives are based on morals, or self-righteousness or whatever, I see it every day. You may as well ask "Why do some vegans make other people feel guilty for eating meat?" I'm not saying all vegans do this, but the minority that do make the rest of the vegans look bad and leave a bad taste in people's mouth about vegans.
^^^ backing this guy up, this isn't the only example of vegan propaganda. I've seen many many many examples of vegans trying to claim that humans evolved to eat a plant-only diet, making false statement after false statement, putting forward strawman arguments and various other logical fallacies to support this claim.
There is unfortunately a lot of pseudoscience and propaganda out there coming from vegans. Why they do it? No idea. I don't see why they can't just say "humans didn't evolve to eat a vegan diet, but we have enough technology nowadays to get all our nutritional needs from 100% plant sources" which is true, rather than trying to claim that meat isn't a natural part of the human diet. The truth is that humans would not have evolved at all without meat, and none of the species of great ape (our closest relatives) are herbivores. They're all omnivores, even gorillas, in spite of vegans frequently using gorillas as an example of how a large primate can thrive on a vegan diet (they eat insects, and additionally the gorilla's gut is better adapted to get nutrition from low quality plant foods than the human's gut, so humans can't base their diet on what's good for gorillas in spite of being closely related). I can elaborate on this at length (i.e. further explain how humans are adapted to be omnivores, not herbivores) if need be, but I don't want to make this a tl;dr post.
I have nothing against vegan diets, it is possible to get enough protein from a vegan diet. Difficult, but possible. What I object to though is vegans trying to claim that humans need less protein than they actually need, in order to justify themselves not getting enough protein on a vegan diet. IMO vegan is an ethical choice (and a legitimate one, even if I don't personally agree with it) not a health choice. It takes careful planning to be properly nourished as a vegan, and saying "humans don't need that much protein anyway therefore I'm not going to bother putting in the effort to get enough protein on a vegan diet" is cop-out logic.0 -
As I understand it, those at greatest risk for cancer are the elderly because cancer can be caused by aging. This may be one of the reasons *everything* seems to cause cancer. My biggest issue with studies that conclude that meat causes cancer is that they don't account for enough variability in the population; everyone I know eats animal products, but not everyone I know develops cancer- and of those who do, other carcinogens in the enviorment (sunlight, medication, and renal failure in my Dad's case) are better linked to the type of cancer involved (skin cancer here).
So, if we assume meat eaters are more likely to get cancer than vegans, are we still controlling for age of our participants? Do vegans die before meat eaters so just don't have a chance to metastasize some cancer? Are we controlling for sample size, or are we comparing three vegans to three-hundred meat eaters? Are we controlling for subject variables? If all of our meat eaters work with radioactive isotopes, but our three vegans run a subsistence farm, that's a huge difference in cancer risk.
I mean, you do you. If you want to cut out all the meat from your diet, by all means go for it. But don't do it because you saw something on the internet. Do it because you want to.0 -
Just to add...
There aren't really any laws about things like, "Documentary" or "Based on a true story".
Integrity aside (and when did this ever bother anyone with an ax to grind?) you can pretty much just say that.
You might later get called out, like this one or "Supersize me" has - but your "true believers" will defend you.
But my point is that, you shouldn't change your life based on something you saw on Netflix or Youtube that called itself a documentary.0 -
I can see the reason for the bad taste, but I think even vegans hate PETA. The links you've posted are great, seems like you've done your research. I'm veggie for a variety of reasons: humanitarian, enviornmental, disdain for agribusiness, ect; any health benefits are just a bonus.
Disdain for agribusiness? When was the last time you stepped foot on a family run dairy farm?0 -
You may want to look into some dissenting opinions regarding "The China Study," which is what they base almost all of their research claims on.
This is a decent start: http://rawfoodsos.com/category/china-study/
There are dozens of others. I'm not going to tell you what to believe. But, I encourage you to fully investigate the issues and research before you decide to radically change your eating.
I read The China Study a year or so ago, then went looking for criticisms and found that site. It's good, but she falls victim to some of the same fallacies she accuses Campbell of. She did not convince me that Campbell is wrong, only that she disagrees with Campbell.
Forks Over Knives is a good documentary. It's not the whole story, but it's a good eye-opener. I'd recommend watching the movie for everybody. It's something to think about. I'd also recommend reading The China Study, although I know a lot of people won't read a book no matter what it's about, and others who are readers won't want to invest the time in that particular subject. I'd also recommend "Whole," also by T. Colin Campbell, which was written five years later to address some of the criticisms of "The China Study."
I'm currently reading "The China Study" for the second time. I'm not a vegan. I tried veganism for 3 months then started adding meat and dairy back into my diet, although on a much smaller scale. I'm still not convinced that Campbell has all the answers, but I do think he has a lot of them. So I'm now getting around 80% or 90% of my calories from Whole Food Plants.0 -
While basing an opinion on one source is dangerous, the China Study should not be ignored; it is a series of experiments done over the course of twenty years, is peer-reviewed, and has been supplemented by several smaller studies. It's silly to think vegans are cranking out propaganda, as a previous poster commented- what would be their motive? Seems the meat and dairy industry have more to gain than the tiny percentage of the population that is vegan.
I eat a plant based diet and my diary is open, feel free to browse, OP. If you liked FOK, check out "Food Inc." it has some really good information in it. Also check out Dr. Estlestein and his work with cardiac patients. My transition to vegetarian was slow, I started just during the week, and gradually cut out meat. Be prepared for critsism, but its worth it if it's something you really want to do.
It's also been debunked many times.0 -
A documentary base on 1 way of thinking is ONLY going to show you the results of any study that supports their view point. Pick up a few books on nutrition and do some reading. Just one thing you will find, not mentioned in Forks Over Knives, plant proteins are far more difficult for the human body to process. They DO NOT break down the same, nor do they supply the same quality protein meat sources supply. Do you need mass amounts of protein in your diet? Probably not. Most people consume more than the body needs in a natural diet. But it's completely your call, your diet, your health.
My reading list thus far on the subject:
Addicted to Food: Understanding the Obesity Epidemic by James Erlichman
The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, And Long-term Health by T. Colin Campbell
Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition by T. Colin Campbell
The Great Cholesterol Myth: Why Lowering Your Cholesterol Won't Prevent Heart Disease-and the Statin-Free Plan That Will by Jonny Bowden
Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health by William Davis
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes
The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health by Dean Ornish
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Michael Moss
The China Study was the best read of the bunch. Salt Sugar Fat was probably the second best. It had no advice on what to eat but was very interesting in its historical look at the food industry.0 -
A documentary base on 1 way of thinking is ONLY going to show you the results of any study that supports their view point. Pick up a few books on nutrition and do some reading. Just one thing you will find, not mentioned in Forks Over Knives, plant proteins are far more difficult for the human body to process. They DO NOT break down the same, nor do they supply the same quality protein meat sources supply. Do you need mass amounts of protein in your diet? Probably not. Most people consume more than the body needs in a natural diet. But it's completely your call, your diet, your health.
My reading list thus far on the subject:
Addicted to Food: Understanding the Obesity Epidemic by James Erlichman
The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, And Long-term Health by T. Colin Campbell
Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition by T. Colin Campbell
The Great Cholesterol Myth: Why Lowering Your Cholesterol Won't Prevent Heart Disease-and the Statin-Free Plan That Will by Jonny Bowden
Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health by William Davis
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes
The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health by Dean Ornish
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Michael Moss
The China Study was the best read of the bunch. Salt Sugar Fat was probably the second best. It had no advice on what to eat but was very interesting in its historical look at the food industry.
You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.0 -
Why, that is downright logical.It's silly to think vegans are cranking out propaganda, as a previous poster commented- what would be their motive? Seems the meat and dairy industry have more to gain than the tiny percentage of the population that is vegan.
Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).
I thought the movie was BS when i first watched it on Netflix, but figured "What's the harm in trying for a few weeks?". 2 years later, i look at turning to a whole foods, plant based diet as the best decision i ever made.
Recipes:
I love fruit, and there is no recipe for that. Buy it and eat it.
Soups
They vary every time, but i start with low sodium veggie broth, and get carrots and celery chopped up, and then whatever is in season gets thrown into the mix.
Salads
I eat them in a mixing bowl, with whatever fresh veggies and fruits i feel like putting in. Romaine, tomatoes cucumbers and onion is a goto.
Oatmeal
1 cup steel cut oats
3 cups water
2 diced cored apples.
cinnamon
diced dates
small amount of chopped walnuts
Cook over night in slow cooker
(optional) Serve with Almond milk0 -
A documentary base on 1 way of thinking is ONLY going to show you the results of any study that supports their view point. Pick up a few books on nutrition and do some reading. Just one thing you will find, not mentioned in Forks Over Knives, plant proteins are far more difficult for the human body to process. They DO NOT break down the same, nor do they supply the same quality protein meat sources supply. Do you need mass amounts of protein in your diet? Probably not. Most people consume more than the body needs in a natural diet. But it's completely your call, your diet, your health.
My reading list thus far on the subject:
Addicted to Food: Understanding the Obesity Epidemic by James Erlichman
The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, And Long-term Health by T. Colin Campbell
Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition by T. Colin Campbell
The Great Cholesterol Myth: Why Lowering Your Cholesterol Won't Prevent Heart Disease-and the Statin-Free Plan That Will by Jonny Bowden
Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health by William Davis
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes
The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health by Dean Ornish
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Michael Moss
The China Study was the best read of the bunch. Salt Sugar Fat was probably the second best. It had no advice on what to eat but was very interesting in its historical look at the food industry.
You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.
I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.
The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.
If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.0 -
Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).
I thought I heard all the Vegan conspiracy theories but I guess I was wrong. So you're saying the meat and dairy industries pay people to post on myfitnesspal forums against veganism? What??
0 -
Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).
I thought I heard all the Vegan conspiracy theories but I guess I was wrong. So you're saying the meat and dairy industries pay people to post on myfitnesspal forums against veganism? What??
Hey, AJ_G, when do we get our money-checks? Have you got yours, yet?
LOL... this is one of the most insane sounding theories I've seen on here. I wish I got paid for telling people to eat meat.0
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