How genuine is "starvation mode"?
katesnewbody
Posts: 62 Member
Hi guys!
I just never really understood the whole "oh, if you eat less than the magical number of 1200 cals per day, your body will fight back, and cling to fat to preserve itself!"
I lost a good 20 pounds (doesn't sound like much, but I was not overweight when I started losing weight, so it;s a relative victory
by eating 700-1200 a day, usually under 1200.
I shed inches at a steady rate, as I was actually more focused on inches than weight, since weight can fluctuate from day to day due to water intake/retention and other functions. It's been 2 years and the most I've gained back is 2-3 pounds over holidays and my inches have stayed the same.
I don't know if I'm a different case or something, but wouldn't that suggest the whole "starvation mode" thing is sort of a myth people sue to scare others about undereating? Any discussion on this?
I just never really understood the whole "oh, if you eat less than the magical number of 1200 cals per day, your body will fight back, and cling to fat to preserve itself!"
I lost a good 20 pounds (doesn't sound like much, but I was not overweight when I started losing weight, so it;s a relative victory
by eating 700-1200 a day, usually under 1200.I shed inches at a steady rate, as I was actually more focused on inches than weight, since weight can fluctuate from day to day due to water intake/retention and other functions. It's been 2 years and the most I've gained back is 2-3 pounds over holidays and my inches have stayed the same.
I don't know if I'm a different case or something, but wouldn't that suggest the whole "starvation mode" thing is sort of a myth people sue to scare others about undereating? Any discussion on this?
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Replies
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One success story does not a rule make. But for most people, especially people with a large amount (75+) to lose, starving themselves is not the way to go. I am against <1200 cals/ day because...
1) It isn't sustainable (meaning you cant do that for the rest of your life). 2) Most people who have weight to lose have bad habits. Learning to eat RESPONSIBLY and be accountable is a big part of being able to be at a healthy weight the rest of your life. 3) Getting your needed vitamins/ minerals eating that is next to impossible. 4) People who want to just eat really low cals and not exercise are setting themselves up for failure. 5) Lowering your weight shouldn't just be so that number on the scale will be low. In fact, losing weight shouldn't be the goal. Being healthy and feeling good (and good about yourself) should be the goal. And that takes reasonable dedication. 6) For most people, that would be a pain. Why starve yourself and be a cranky, low-energy person, when you can eat 1600-1800 cals or more, and still lose (and get the proper nutrition)? 7) Losing weight =/= losing body fat. The human body would just as well eat up your muscle and connective tissue as fat. Especially because the chance of getting enough protein on 1200 cals is gonna be pretty hard. 8) Some people may become obsessive about eating less and less, and could be a slippery slope into an eating disorder.
I could probably think of more, but TL;DR it's unhealthy for a long period of time.0 -
It worked for you which is good. How much do you eat now to maintain?
But if you can eat more and lose steadily probably the better way. I think a lot of the time we are too in a hurry to lose weight fast. I am guilty of this a lot too.0 -
Starvation mode is bogus for 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the people on here.0
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I usually go into starvation mode whenever I am depressed and not happy it lasts for a few days to a week0
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I usually go into starvation mode whenever I am depressed and not happy it lasts for a few days to a week
Especially since most of us (even those of us that measure our food) under report our food intake (no matter how diligent one tries to be).0 -
The starvation mode that people get worried about on here is a misunderstanding of how things really work with the body... But from the sounds of it, you starved yourself, but didn't necessarily trigger a metabolic crisis. I would guess that your progress was quick.
The way I base my opinion is on personal experience and the dietary guidelines for starvation rehabilitation. Clinical starvation is considered chronic caloric intake of under 1200 calories. It is generally accepted that a person cannot fulfill nutrient needs at that level without heavy supplementation. The lowest caloric recommendation for even the most obese person that has weight loss surgery is set to 1100 a day, but requires a serious supplement regimen.
From a different approach, the intentional eating of less than 1200 calories on a daily basis is anorexia. Eating more than this, but intentionally exercising excessively or eating super high fiber is a form of bulimia. People don't like it when I say this because they don't appreciate the psychiatric diagnosis implied, but this is a literal interpretation of caloric intake.
Yes, there are people that are outside these norms, but they are not as common as some people here on MFP want to believe.
Anyway, if a person "crash diets" for a couple months in this way, but does have days where they eat more than 1200 calories (which I assume most people do), starvation metabolism is very hard to establish. However, if you were to continue this habit for an extended period of time, adaptive thermogenisis would limit your metabolic needs to the limit you have established... Which would create a super-gain in the future if you were to eat a high level of calories. If you stay in this long enough... we're talking a couple years... you can do almost permanent damage to your pituitary and thyroid responses, and need hormonal intervention.
I am speaking from the perspective of someone who gained almost all her weight from having anorexia, then moving to binge/compulsive eating disorder. I ate about 900 calories a day for 4 years, but had huge binges that ultimately stuck to every inch of me. It took several years more to get the numbers to start going down instead of up.0 -
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Starvation mode is not a myth but perhaps it should be called something else......it's basically just your body becoming more efficient at basic metabolic functions after prolonged restriction of calories in order to preserve itself. The body does not understand that you are dieting for health, it is planning for the future and is trying to ensure survival. It happens to me every time I have ever dieted very strict....this time around my resting HR went into the mid 40's!!, my BP went down to about 110/65 and my body temperature went down to 96.5.....so yeah, it's definitely real!!
That being said, it's not something to freak about.....I simply changed up my diet by slowly increasing calories and mixing in a couple of cheat meals over the course of a week...I also stopped almost all cardio and went heavy on the weight training and voila, the switch has been turned back on and the weight is falling off again. The moral of the story is that it's important to switch it up diet and exercise wise to keep your body guessing.....if not, it will adjust to your routine and make it more difficult to reach your goals.0 -
In for more Starvation mode debate! ;-)
PS, I could never try it myself personally, as I love eating :-)0 -
Eating a VLCD without medical supervision is dangerous and as you mentioned you did not have that much to lose so completely unnecessary!Hi guys!
I just never really understood the whole "oh, if you eat less than the magical number of 1200 cals per day, your body will fight back, and cling to fat to preserve itself!"
I lost a good 20 pounds (doesn't sound like much, but I was not overweight when I started losing weight, so it;s a relative victory by eating 700-1200 a day, usually under 1200.
I shed inches at a steady rate, as I was actually more focused on inches than weight, since weight can fluctuate from day to day due to water intake/retention and other functions. It's been 2 years and the most I've gained back is 2-3 pounds over holidays and my inches have stayed the same.
I don't know if I'm a different case or something, but wouldn't that suggest the whole "starvation mode" thing is sort of a myth people sue to scare others about undereating? Any discussion on this?
Some questions for you...
Did you do this because you lack patience?
Do you think you have a healthy relationship to food?
Are you aware of what lean body mass (LBM) is and how a significant amount of the weight you dropped was most probably LBM?
Are you aware of the impact on your health beyond rate of weight/fat loss eating like this can have on your body?
Do you suffer from an Eating Disorder (ED) or Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD)?
Are you aware of the more serious side effects of a unsupervised VLCD...
More serious potential consequences include heart arrhythmia, stroke and brain hemorrhage, dizziness, fatigue, confusion, coma and death. I think you get the idea!
http://www.adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-illnesses/other-related-conditions/body-dysmorphic-disorder-bdd
http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/find-help-support
ETA: The parts I have highlighted are indicative of an ED and I suggest you seek professional help. You may think you are fine but the information you have provided says otherwise.0 -
In for more Starvation mode debate! ;-)
PS, I could never try it myself personally, as I love eating :-)
+10 -
somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.0
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Actually it was not the question, it was the dietary information/habits you provided.somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.
Also I see you failed to answer my questions.
If you present that dietary info you provided to any reputable medical professional I have no doubt they would question both your physical and mental health...this is not meant as a dig at you for I am concerned after reading your OP.
How tall are you and how much do you weigh if I may ask?0 -
I am 5'9", 1340
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Damn that was some good reading, thanks for the links!!!0 -
I think it's very real in some cases.I have never really had much of an appetite even though I have been overweight most of my life. I've been trying to lose weight by exercising for the last couple of years and haven't lost anything no matter what I do,and actually gained weight when I started eating salads in hopes it would help me start losing.I recently started using MFP and had to start making myself eat to even get to the 1200 calories. I've never tried to starve myself, I simply wasn't hungry or would forget to eat when I did feel hungry,and averaged eating once a day .I make everything from scratch, eat healthy food and rarely go out to eat. The same week I started forcing myself to eat 3 times a day,and get at least 1200 calories in,I lost 5# . When I get hungry now,I feel like I haven't eaten in a week and have to find food,so I assume my metabolism is awake now and starting to work .0
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Yes that what i do as well.0
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1200 calories is an average. I say you should never assume you're average so never go under 1350. But there are hundreds of stories on here about people who just weren't losing weight and then they upped their calories and started dropping weight easily.0
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Nvm0
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For someone your height and weight the numbers you stated are not going to meet your nutritional or calorie needs to function normally/healthily.I am 5'9", 134
If you are not seeing any negative impact on your health than I would hazard a guess that you are both underestimating your calorie intake and overestimating how much you are burning through exercise...this is very common when people are talking about having VLCD with little weight loss or no negative impact on their health. The validity of their diet is always questionable.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/872212-you-re-probably-eating-more-than-you-think
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818082-exercise-calories-again-wtf
Now if you have been eating as little as you have stated for a long period of time then it is possible you have suffered from some metabolic damage and the rate at which your metabolism functions may be slower.
There are many factors to consider concerning how many calories the body needs to function...
BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): The number of calories you burn at complete rest.
EAT (Exercise Associated Thermogenesis): Caloric requirements of training, or training expenditure.
NEAT (Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis): Caloric requirements of activity that is not planned exercise. Vacuuming, driving, brushing your teeth, for example.
TEF/DIT (Thermic Effect of Feeding or Diet Induced Thermogenesis): Caloric expense of eating/digestion.
TDEE: (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) = Sum of the above. BMR+EAT+NEAT+TEF
I reiterate the very fact you mentioned you dropped 20lbs when you were not overweight with such a low calorie intake is indicative of an unhealthy relationship with food...
As a rule of thumb, the following weekly targets would give a balance between minimizing these negative side effects and seeing a reasonable weekly weight loss:
More than 75 lbs: 2 lbs/week
40-75 lbs: 1.5 lbs/week
10-40 lbs: 1 lb/week
Less than 10 lbs: 0.5 lb/week
Obviously, the deficit that is right for you will depend on your personal circumstances and how well you deal with the deficit. For example, for someone who is morbidly obese, the health benefits of getting the weight off quickly will often outweigh the possible negative impact and, as such, a higher than 2 lb a week deficit may well be appropriate.
No I do not believe 1200 is a magic number but I am versed enough in nutrition and dietary habits to see when somebody is not eating enough or at the very least the indicators...such as the ones I highlighted earlier in your OP.
I am not accusing you of being anorexic but I do believe you are taking an unnecessary/unhealthy approach to weight loss that will inevitable lead to dire consequences unless you adjust your behavior.
Some helpful links...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants0 -
I forgot to ask but have you maintained this low intake of food for the whole two years or just during the stage where you lost your initial weight?
What is your current daily average intake now?0 -
somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.
LOL. You got to a BMI a shade under 20, well done. How much do you eat now, and are you maintaining ?0 -
somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.
The expression of concern regarding possible anorexia nervosa is not an "accusation." Accusations are for crimes and offenses. When I mentioned anorexia, I did try to specify that I was discussing it from a clinical perspective rather than a psychological one.
Anorexia is a medical term meaning "lack or absence of appetite" and, while used colloquially for the eating disorder, it is not the technical term. The eating disorder is "anorexia nervosa" which, in the name, indicates the psychological root (aka nervosa, indicating the nervous system or brain). Weight loss medications like phentermine are "anorectics" as in, they induce anorexia in the patient. Other medical conditions, environmental influences, and social pressures can also cause anorexia without being full blown anorexia nervosa.
Caloric intake under 1200 calories is rarely recommended for the extremely obese. When you state that you average 700-1100 calories a day, it is a huge red flag of a problem. A knowledgeable person would have to be critical of the fact that a woman who started out at a weight that is pretty well perfect for her height desired to lose 20lbs. Seeing as a woman of your height and weight with a healthy metabolism and sedentary lifestyle would generally need about 1600 calories to sustain herself, it should be a concern to you too. Either you are not hungry due to a physiological condition that should be addressed by a physician, or you are denying your hunger. Both of these situations need professional guidance.
The average anorexia nervosa patient eats 600-800 calories a day. As I said before, even if eating more than this range, compensatory exercise is very common, and thus creates a NET calorie total equal to or less than the average. This sounds pretty well exactly like what you've presented as the basis of your concern for starvation mode. I find your concern valid, and strongly urge you to seek professional help to refeed to a more appropriate nutritional level.
Many of us have had our days of eating VLC. These days are often due to emotional stress, activity, or illness. However, prolonged and intentional eating excessively low calories is a problem. Many people don't realize that by cutting calories drastically and losing significant amounts of weight, they can induce things like hypothyroidism, which not only affects the metabolic rate and appetite, but also predisposes them to many health complications if left unaddressed.
I guess, ultimately, I have to wonder why you're asking about starvation mode? Most people don't worry about that, unless they know that they are starving themselves on some level. If a person is conscious of the fact that they are undereating, is concerned about long term effects, but cannot get themselves to eat more calories... THERE IS A PROBLEM.
You may be still within healthy weight range, but many people with metabolic and psychological issues are as well. Healthy weight does not in any way guarantee that you are healthy and well-nourished. Get a physical, have some blood work done, see how it pans out. Maybe you'll find out that you're fine and for whatever reason what you're doing right now is a rare exception. Or maybe, you'll save your own life.0 -
I think it's very real in some cases.I have never really had much of an appetite even though I have been overweight most of my life. I've been trying to lose weight by exercising for the last couple of years and haven't lost anything no matter what I do,and actually gained weight when I started eating salads in hopes it would help me start losing.I recently started using MFP and had to start making myself eat to even get to the 1200 calories. I've never tried to starve myself, I simply wasn't hungry or would forget to eat when I did feel hungry,and averaged eating once a day .I make everything from scratch, eat healthy food and rarely go out to eat. The same week I started forcing myself to eat 3 times a day,and get at least 1200 calories in,I lost 5# . When I get hungry now,I feel like I haven't eaten in a week and have to find food,so I assume my metabolism is awake now and starting to work .
This is basically an example of what happens when you eat too little for too long, and then work on correcting it.
I honestly think that many overweight people (myself included) had a period of time where they ate exceptionally little. When we gain weight, the blanket response is usually "eat less" so we do. When that doesn't work, we eat less and less until we're not eating anymore at all. By the time we get to eating once a day, our bodies have slowed down to a point where we don't feel hunger... And this effect is due to our convincing our bodies that no matter how much they ask for food, they aren't going to get it. I honestly believe that we either become essentially immune to hunger-triggering hormones, or the body stops making them after a while.
When I started on MFP, I learned very quickly that I had back slid into eating too little. Increasing my intake was hard, but I too experienced a significantly better rate of weight loss once I upped my calories to a more appropriate level. Once my body realized I was going to feed it properly, it started to be ravenous. And I mean gut-wrenching, painful hunger, hunger that would wake me up in the middle of the night. I had to eat every hour to get to my goal, but when I got there, I dropped 3-6 pounds a week.
So I guess that's just two examples of where lack of hunger didn't mean lack of need.0 -
if you are 5'9 and weigh 134 and you still are trying to lose another 16lbs then you would be 5'9 and 118lbs = bmi would be 17.4 thats not healthy.... :noway:0
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somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.
The expression of concern regarding possible anorexia nervosa is not an "accusation." Accusations are for crimes and offenses. When I mentioned anorexia, I did try to specify that I was discussing it from a clinical perspective rather than a psychological one.
Anorexia is a medical term meaning "lack or absence of appetite" and, while used colloquially for the eating disorder, it is not the technical term. The eating disorder is "anorexia nervosa" which, in the name, indicates the psychological root (aka nervosa, indicating the nervous system or brain). Weight loss medications like phentermine are "anorectics" as in, they induce anorexia in the patient. Other medical conditions, environmental influences, and social pressures can also cause anorexia without being full blown anorexia nervosa.
Caloric intake under 1200 calories is rarely recommended for the extremely obese. When you state that you average 700-1100 calories a day, it is a huge red flag of a problem. A knowledgeable person would have to be critical of the fact that a woman who started out at a weight that is pretty well perfect for her height desired to lose 20lbs. Seeing as a woman of your height and weight with a healthy metabolism and sedentary lifestyle would generally need about 1600 calories to sustain herself, it should be a concern to you too. Either you are not hungry due to a physiological condition that should be addressed by a physician, or you are denying your hunger. Both of these situations need professional guidance.
The average anorexia nervosa patient eats 600-800 calories a day. As I said before, even if eating more than this range, compensatory exercise is very common, and thus creates a NET calorie total equal to or less than the average. This sounds pretty well exactly like what you've presented as the basis of your concern for starvation mode. I find your concern valid, and strongly urge you to seek professional help to refeed to a more appropriate nutritional level.
Many of us have had our days of eating VLC. These days are often due to emotional stress, activity, or illness. However, prolonged and intentional eating excessively low calories is a problem. Many people don't realize that by cutting calories drastically and losing significant amounts of weight, they can induce things like hypothyroidism, which not only affects the metabolic rate and appetite, but also predisposes them to many health complications if left unaddressed.
I guess, ultimately, I have to wonder why you're asking about starvation mode? Most people don't worry about that, unless they know that they are starving themselves on some level. If a person is conscious of the fact that they are undereating, is concerned about long term effects, but cannot get themselves to eat more calories... THERE IS A PROBLEM.
You may be still within healthy weight range, but many people with metabolic and psychological issues are as well. Healthy weight does not in any way guarantee that you are healthy and well-nourished. Get a physical, have some blood work done, see how it pans out. Maybe you'll find out that you're fine and for whatever reason what you're doing right now is a rare exception. Or maybe, you'll save your own life.
Thank you for these very well thought out and informative posts.0 -
Doesn't get any better than that.
Damn that was some good reading, thanks for the links!!!0 -
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This^^^^^^^^^ Or so my Doctor Told me :drinker:Starvation mode is bogus for 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the people on here.0 -
I find the way laymen use that term it is typically just wrong.
I know that the body adapts our BMR as we lose weight mine has dropped by appx 100 since I started here on MFP.
So yes my body is adapting but that being said our bodies do not do the following:
1. Hold onto fat when we eat too little
2. Create fat when we eat too little :noway:
I do feel that there are ways to counter the adaptations such as exercise and maintaining/creating muscle mass...0
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