How genuine is "starvation mode"?
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I forgot to ask but have you maintained this low intake of food for the whole two years or just during the stage where you lost your initial weight?
What is your current daily average intake now?0 -
somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.
LOL. You got to a BMI a shade under 20, well done. How much do you eat now, and are you maintaining ?0 -
somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.
The expression of concern regarding possible anorexia nervosa is not an "accusation." Accusations are for crimes and offenses. When I mentioned anorexia, I did try to specify that I was discussing it from a clinical perspective rather than a psychological one.
Anorexia is a medical term meaning "lack or absence of appetite" and, while used colloquially for the eating disorder, it is not the technical term. The eating disorder is "anorexia nervosa" which, in the name, indicates the psychological root (aka nervosa, indicating the nervous system or brain). Weight loss medications like phentermine are "anorectics" as in, they induce anorexia in the patient. Other medical conditions, environmental influences, and social pressures can also cause anorexia without being full blown anorexia nervosa.
Caloric intake under 1200 calories is rarely recommended for the extremely obese. When you state that you average 700-1100 calories a day, it is a huge red flag of a problem. A knowledgeable person would have to be critical of the fact that a woman who started out at a weight that is pretty well perfect for her height desired to lose 20lbs. Seeing as a woman of your height and weight with a healthy metabolism and sedentary lifestyle would generally need about 1600 calories to sustain herself, it should be a concern to you too. Either you are not hungry due to a physiological condition that should be addressed by a physician, or you are denying your hunger. Both of these situations need professional guidance.
The average anorexia nervosa patient eats 600-800 calories a day. As I said before, even if eating more than this range, compensatory exercise is very common, and thus creates a NET calorie total equal to or less than the average. This sounds pretty well exactly like what you've presented as the basis of your concern for starvation mode. I find your concern valid, and strongly urge you to seek professional help to refeed to a more appropriate nutritional level.
Many of us have had our days of eating VLC. These days are often due to emotional stress, activity, or illness. However, prolonged and intentional eating excessively low calories is a problem. Many people don't realize that by cutting calories drastically and losing significant amounts of weight, they can induce things like hypothyroidism, which not only affects the metabolic rate and appetite, but also predisposes them to many health complications if left unaddressed.
I guess, ultimately, I have to wonder why you're asking about starvation mode? Most people don't worry about that, unless they know that they are starving themselves on some level. If a person is conscious of the fact that they are undereating, is concerned about long term effects, but cannot get themselves to eat more calories... THERE IS A PROBLEM.
You may be still within healthy weight range, but many people with metabolic and psychological issues are as well. Healthy weight does not in any way guarantee that you are healthy and well-nourished. Get a physical, have some blood work done, see how it pans out. Maybe you'll find out that you're fine and for whatever reason what you're doing right now is a rare exception. Or maybe, you'll save your own life.0 -
I think it's very real in some cases.I have never really had much of an appetite even though I have been overweight most of my life. I've been trying to lose weight by exercising for the last couple of years and haven't lost anything no matter what I do,and actually gained weight when I started eating salads in hopes it would help me start losing.I recently started using MFP and had to start making myself eat to even get to the 1200 calories. I've never tried to starve myself, I simply wasn't hungry or would forget to eat when I did feel hungry,and averaged eating once a day .I make everything from scratch, eat healthy food and rarely go out to eat. The same week I started forcing myself to eat 3 times a day,and get at least 1200 calories in,I lost 5# . When I get hungry now,I feel like I haven't eaten in a week and have to find food,so I assume my metabolism is awake now and starting to work .
This is basically an example of what happens when you eat too little for too long, and then work on correcting it.
I honestly think that many overweight people (myself included) had a period of time where they ate exceptionally little. When we gain weight, the blanket response is usually "eat less" so we do. When that doesn't work, we eat less and less until we're not eating anymore at all. By the time we get to eating once a day, our bodies have slowed down to a point where we don't feel hunger... And this effect is due to our convincing our bodies that no matter how much they ask for food, they aren't going to get it. I honestly believe that we either become essentially immune to hunger-triggering hormones, or the body stops making them after a while.
When I started on MFP, I learned very quickly that I had back slid into eating too little. Increasing my intake was hard, but I too experienced a significantly better rate of weight loss once I upped my calories to a more appropriate level. Once my body realized I was going to feed it properly, it started to be ravenous. And I mean gut-wrenching, painful hunger, hunger that would wake me up in the middle of the night. I had to eat every hour to get to my goal, but when I got there, I dropped 3-6 pounds a week.
So I guess that's just two examples of where lack of hunger didn't mean lack of need.0 -
if you are 5'9 and weigh 134 and you still are trying to lose another 16lbs then you would be 5'9 and 118lbs = bmi would be 17.4 thats not healthy.... :noway:0
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somehow, no matter what question I ask on here, people accuse me of having anorexia. :I Gah.
The expression of concern regarding possible anorexia nervosa is not an "accusation." Accusations are for crimes and offenses. When I mentioned anorexia, I did try to specify that I was discussing it from a clinical perspective rather than a psychological one.
Anorexia is a medical term meaning "lack or absence of appetite" and, while used colloquially for the eating disorder, it is not the technical term. The eating disorder is "anorexia nervosa" which, in the name, indicates the psychological root (aka nervosa, indicating the nervous system or brain). Weight loss medications like phentermine are "anorectics" as in, they induce anorexia in the patient. Other medical conditions, environmental influences, and social pressures can also cause anorexia without being full blown anorexia nervosa.
Caloric intake under 1200 calories is rarely recommended for the extremely obese. When you state that you average 700-1100 calories a day, it is a huge red flag of a problem. A knowledgeable person would have to be critical of the fact that a woman who started out at a weight that is pretty well perfect for her height desired to lose 20lbs. Seeing as a woman of your height and weight with a healthy metabolism and sedentary lifestyle would generally need about 1600 calories to sustain herself, it should be a concern to you too. Either you are not hungry due to a physiological condition that should be addressed by a physician, or you are denying your hunger. Both of these situations need professional guidance.
The average anorexia nervosa patient eats 600-800 calories a day. As I said before, even if eating more than this range, compensatory exercise is very common, and thus creates a NET calorie total equal to or less than the average. This sounds pretty well exactly like what you've presented as the basis of your concern for starvation mode. I find your concern valid, and strongly urge you to seek professional help to refeed to a more appropriate nutritional level.
Many of us have had our days of eating VLC. These days are often due to emotional stress, activity, or illness. However, prolonged and intentional eating excessively low calories is a problem. Many people don't realize that by cutting calories drastically and losing significant amounts of weight, they can induce things like hypothyroidism, which not only affects the metabolic rate and appetite, but also predisposes them to many health complications if left unaddressed.
I guess, ultimately, I have to wonder why you're asking about starvation mode? Most people don't worry about that, unless they know that they are starving themselves on some level. If a person is conscious of the fact that they are undereating, is concerned about long term effects, but cannot get themselves to eat more calories... THERE IS A PROBLEM.
You may be still within healthy weight range, but many people with metabolic and psychological issues are as well. Healthy weight does not in any way guarantee that you are healthy and well-nourished. Get a physical, have some blood work done, see how it pans out. Maybe you'll find out that you're fine and for whatever reason what you're doing right now is a rare exception. Or maybe, you'll save your own life.
Thank you for these very well thought out and informative posts.0 -
Doesn't get any better than that.
Damn that was some good reading, thanks for the links!!!0 -
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This^^^^^^^^^ Or so my Doctor Told me :drinker:Starvation mode is bogus for 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the people on here.0 -
I find the way laymen use that term it is typically just wrong.
I know that the body adapts our BMR as we lose weight mine has dropped by appx 100 since I started here on MFP.
So yes my body is adapting but that being said our bodies do not do the following:
1. Hold onto fat when we eat too little
2. Create fat when we eat too little :noway:
I do feel that there are ways to counter the adaptations such as exercise and maintaining/creating muscle mass...0 -
Agree!
I wonder if the OP is referring to the "starvation mode" that is often referred to when someone posts, as you say,
1. Hold onto fat when we eat too little
2. Create fat when we eat too little
It is irritating to see the above advice offered so often when someone complains about losing weight too slowly or not at all.0 -
OP, what was your body fat % and lean body mass before starting, and then after?0
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Not eating enough during depression is not the same as starvation mode. Not at all.I usually go into starvation mode whenever I am depressed and not happy it lasts for a few days to a week0 -
most normal people will not hit starvation mode.
trust me.
I have been battling an eating disorder since I was about 15 and my body is *ruined* from starvation mode...because I essentially ate under 750 calories (eventually I stopped eating for periods of up to two weeks) and forced myself to throw up.
starvation mode isn't going to happen because you only ate 1200 calories or missed a meal or aren't losing weight.
your body may have just gotten used to your routine and needs change
starvation mode happens when you STARVE YOUR BODY AND IT WANTS NUTRIENTS SO IT STORES EVERYTHING (WATER INCLUDED) THAT YOU CONSUME.
and your metabolism certainly suffers. mine has.
i think a lot of you are worried about something that isn't going to happen. weight loss just tends to slow down once you get closer to your range.0 -
most normal people will not hit starvation mode.
trust me.
I have been battling an eating disorder since I was about 15 and my body is *ruined* from starvation mode...because I essentially ate under 750 calories (eventually I stopped eating for periods of up to two weeks) and forced myself to throw up.
starvation mode isn't going to happen because you only ate 1200 calories or missed a meal or aren't losing weight.
your body may have just gotten used to your routine and needs change
starvation mode happens when you STARVE YOUR BODY AND IT WANTS NUTRIENTS SO IT STORES EVERYTHING (WATER INCLUDED) THAT YOU CONSUME.
and your metabolism certainly suffers. mine has.
i think a lot of you are worried about something that isn't going to happen. weight loss just tends to slow down once you get closer to your range.
Very much agreed.
I've written a couple blog posts discussing the establishment of starvation and clinical diagnosis of starvation in eating disordered individuals, due to the fact that so many people on MFP do not understand that it is a real situation that faces a small percentage of people.
Common misconceptions:
1. Starving individuals are emaciated
2. Fat people can't have eating disorders
3. Starving and dying of starvation are the same thing (how many times are people try to compare people actively starving themselves to the bloated bellies in Africa?)
4. Eating disorders are curable
5. There are no long-term damages to metabolism caused by disordered eating.
It is true that the average, normal person is not going to experience starvation mode. However, those of us that battle the beast, so to speak, have firsthand experience with the physiological and psychological impact.
My own experience of progressive undereating and anorexia cycled to a period of time where I would starve myself, then have emotional binge events, during which I gained almost the entirety of my excess weight. My disordered response turned to bulimia after a certain point, to try and counteract the binge aspect, but by then, I was screwed.
It's taken a very long time for me to establish solid recovery mode, but I still have problems at times. Luckily, with the combination of thyroid hormone treatment and therapeutic refeeding, I have been able to more or less normalize my metabolism. Unfortunately, it didn't turn around until I had hit 485 pounds.
Things can get better, but every day, it's a choice. We make active decisions to combat our inclinations, and many people just don't have the capacity to understand that.0 -
Apparently I can't edit my typos and it's driving me crazy. CRAZY I TELL YA!
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no, I took a break and ate about 2000 calories a day when not dieting0
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Hi guys!
I just never really understood the whole "oh, if you eat less than the magical number of 1200 cals per day, your body will fight back, and cling to fat to preserve itself!"
I lost a good 20 pounds (doesn't sound like much, but I was not overweight when I started losing weight, so it;s a relative victory by eating 700-1200 a day, usually under 1200.
I shed inches at a steady rate, as I was actually more focused on inches than weight, since weight can fluctuate from day to day due to water intake/retention and other functions. It's been 2 years and the most I've gained back is 2-3 pounds over holidays and my inches have stayed the same.
I don't know if I'm a different case or something, but wouldn't that suggest the whole "starvation mode" thing is sort of a myth people sue to scare others about undereating? Any discussion on this?
You're not a different case. If you barely eat, you will lose weight. And contrary to popular belief, not all people will look like a bowl of muscle-less jelly after fast weight loss either.
The rate of loss is far less important than the ability to maintain AFTER the loss. And this is where the majority of people fail. They are unable to go from eating at a severe deficit to increasing calories and maintaining. They either go crazy from the deprivation, binge, and not lose weight. Or they do lose weight, still go crazy from the deprivation and obsession with food, and then work overtime to OVEReat and make up for what they did not have. And BOOM, fat again.
Personally, I've lost fast and I've lost slow. In both cases I've regained weight. Slow weight loss offered me ZERO advantages, and one key disadvantage; it made the tedious work of losing slowly seem like an even bigger waste since I gained it all back at a similar rate I did after swift weight loss.
If you're able to lose fast and make a sane transition back, do it. That's what I do now. I'm very much able to deal with deprivation in a way that does not send me binging, or obsessing about food. I'd rather lose quickly and then stabilize, because I have a very healthy relationship with food and hunger that allow me to do that now. So I do deep cuts, and if/when I need to take breaks from the cuts, I do and will just eat what I like. However that strength took a very long time to develop, with a lot of trial and error. I no longer "love" food, and am not obsessed with eating, which helps a lot.
So I prefer to cut fast, and then maintain. I don't have any real issues anymore being able to transition from deep cuts to "normal" eating.0 -
If you're able to lose fast and make a sane transition back, do it. That's what I do now. I'm very much able to deal with deprivation in a way that does not send me binging, or obsessing about food. I'd rather lose quickly and then stabilize, because I have a very healthy relationship with food and hunger that allow me to do that now. So I do deep cuts, and if/when I need to take breaks from the cuts, I do and will just eat what I like. However that strength took a very long time to develop, with a lot of trial and error. I no longer "love" food, and am not obsessed with eating, which helps a lot.
So I prefer to cut fast, and then maintain. I don't have any real issues anymore being able to transition from deep cuts to "normal" eating.
And just how often do you have to do those "deep cuts"? :huh:
If you are cycling through "deep cuts" and then "normal" eating, you are not developing a healthy relationship with food. Success is losing the weight and keeping it off. If you haven't been able to do that, your "deep cut" followed by "normal" eating isn't really normal eating, it's going back to over eating.0 -
I think it's very real in some cases.I have never really had much of an appetite even though I have been overweight most of my life. I've been trying to lose weight by exercising for the last couple of years and haven't lost anything no matter what I do,and actually gained weight when I started eating salads in hopes it would help me start losing.I recently started using MFP and had to start making myself eat to even get to the 1200 calories. I've never tried to starve myself, I simply wasn't hungry or would forget to eat when I did feel hungry,and averaged eating once a day .I make everything from scratch, eat healthy food and rarely go out to eat. The same week I started forcing myself to eat 3 times a day,and get at least 1200 calories in,I lost 5# . When I get hungry now,I feel like I haven't eaten in a week and have to find food,so I assume my metabolism is awake now and starting to work .
My 400lbs cousin use to make the exact same claims. I "barely eat" and am "hardy hungry" is a common narrative amongst the overweight and obese.
And then, as if by magic, they start calorie counting and eating "1200 calories a day", and voila, they're suddenly losing.
It's not because of starvation mode. You didn't lose because eating more kick started your metabolism. You simple were eating far more calories than you were accountable for, but didn't realize it because it didn't "feel" like a lot. Now it seems like you're eating more calories, but you really aren't. It just feels that way because you are finally actually paying attention meticulously to your intake.0
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