Short Dirty Bulk?
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Glitch000019
Posts: 27
Stats:
5'7, 115-118 pounds
18 years, male
I recently recovered from an eating disorder. I have to gain some weight over the next month for a weigh in. I hate the slow gradual bulk and that is risky for me since not gaining is not an option for me. I like completely stuffing myself silly (dirty bulk) and also I like a nice cut but I hate a gradual bulk(not comfortable and more stressful for me). So I was thinking of doing a nice dirty and aggressive bulk for the next month (aiming for 1 to 2 pounds week) and then do a quick cut to eliminate the excess fat. I will then do another strong bulk. During the bulk, I will be aiming for 3000 to 4000 calories a day of mostly clean but some junk and will cut on about 1800 calories. I would prefer to do the cut and bulk cycles quickly over one long clean bulk for many reasons. I figure I might as well go dirty and truly enjoy my bulk since I can always shed the fat later. Also since I'm going to be doing a lot of short cycles, I won't ever have too much extra weight on me. I understand this is not the ideal way to gain but I think this is what is best for my lifestyle. How should I approach the bulking part? Can I include some junk foods? Would 3000 or 4000 calories be better? (I'm quite active) any other thoughts or questions? Can I eat some junk food like a burger and fries or fried chicken or some cookie cake since I'm bulking as long as I eat mostly healthy?
5'7, 115-118 pounds
18 years, male
I recently recovered from an eating disorder. I have to gain some weight over the next month for a weigh in. I hate the slow gradual bulk and that is risky for me since not gaining is not an option for me. I like completely stuffing myself silly (dirty bulk) and also I like a nice cut but I hate a gradual bulk(not comfortable and more stressful for me). So I was thinking of doing a nice dirty and aggressive bulk for the next month (aiming for 1 to 2 pounds week) and then do a quick cut to eliminate the excess fat. I will then do another strong bulk. During the bulk, I will be aiming for 3000 to 4000 calories a day of mostly clean but some junk and will cut on about 1800 calories. I would prefer to do the cut and bulk cycles quickly over one long clean bulk for many reasons. I figure I might as well go dirty and truly enjoy my bulk since I can always shed the fat later. Also since I'm going to be doing a lot of short cycles, I won't ever have too much extra weight on me. I understand this is not the ideal way to gain but I think this is what is best for my lifestyle. How should I approach the bulking part? Can I include some junk foods? Would 3000 or 4000 calories be better? (I'm quite active) any other thoughts or questions? Can I eat some junk food like a burger and fries or fried chicken or some cookie cake since I'm bulking as long as I eat mostly healthy?
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Replies
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Stats:
5'7, 115-118 pounds
18 years, male
I recently recovered from an eating disorder. I have to gain some weight over the next month for a weigh in. I hate the slow gradual bulk and that is risky for me since not gaining is not an option for me. I like completely stuffing myself silly (dirty bulk) and also I like a nice cut but I hate a gradual bulk(not comfortable and more stressful for me). So I was thinking of doing a nice dirty and aggressive bulk for the next month (aiming for 1 to 2 pounds week) and then do a quick cut to eliminate the excess fat. I will then do another strong bulk. During the bulk, I will be aiming for 3000 to 4000 calories a day of mostly clean but some junk and will cut on about 1800 calories. I would prefer to do the cut and bulk cycles quickly over one long clean bulk for many reasons. I figure I might as well go dirty and truly enjoy my bulk since I can always shed the fat later. Also since I'm going to be doing a lot of short cycles, I won't ever have too much extra weight on me. I understand this is not the ideal way to gain but I think this is what is best for my lifestyle. How should I approach the bulking part? Can I include some junk foods? Would 3000 or 4000 calories be better? (I'm quite active) any other thoughts or questions? Can I eat some junk food like a burger and fries or fried chicken or some cookie cake since I'm bulking as long as I eat mostly healthy?
Bolded: Are you certain of this? What you've described in the rest of your post honestly, in my extremely unprofessional opinion, sounds like some sort of binge/purge cycle. But that's just what it sounded like to me. No offence or disrespect meant.
IMO, it would be a lot more beneficial for you to do a good, long 'clean' bulk, with a reasonable surplus. At least a year. Maybe two. You'll enjoy the strength and size gains in the gym and see linear progress over time rather than randomly stall every few weeks, and you'll probably get a result you'll like better in the end.
In regards to the foods you can eat... aim to hit your fat and protein requirements, then hit the remainder of your calories with whatever macronutrient you please. Ensure you eat plenty of fruits, vegetables and nutrient-dense foods, and yes, it's fine from time to time to include "junk food" into your calories goal, provided you have met the rest of your requirements.0 -
Listen to Shadow Knight. He makes sense. Try and imagine eating enough so you don't feel the need to binge anymore. That's what MFP has done for me. Stopped the terrible binge purge, emotional shameful cycles.0
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i agree, listen to shadow knight.
a 'quick' bulk for a month followed by a quick cut will give you what? maybe 1lb of extra muscle if you're lucky? what good will that do!?
if you're having to gain weight for a weigh in that would suggest you are still having your weight monitored and are not recovered from your eating disorder at all.0 -
Ditto. Bulk for a long time. Don't binge-purge. A 2-year bulk would do you a lot of good. A quick dirty bulk will pack on more fat than I think you want. You can only gain muscle so fast.
Get your strength program in order and get your eating plan in order. Then just plan for a long growth period. You'll be healthier and have more lean mass at the end of the long cycle.0 -
So I was thinking of doing a nice dirty and aggressive bulk for the next month (aiming for 1 to 2 pounds week) and then do a quick cut to eliminate the excess fat. I will then do another strong bulk. During the bulk, I will be aiming for 3000 to 4000 calories a day of mostly clean but some junk and will cut on about 1800 calories.
Most people are so focused on the other stuff you wrote and your characterization of your plan that they kind of missed some big details.
1 lb/wk is NOT a dirty bulk. For a dude, especially a high teen/low twentysomething witha lot of weight to gain, that's just a bulk. Even 1.5 lb/wk is in the gray area, no other unenhanced demographic can pull it off without serious fat gain, but your demographic can.
You are drastically overestimating the fat gain. You'll almost surely be able to bulk for 3-4 months at 1 lb/wk before you see any real signs of fat gain. With your starting point and potential rate of muscle gain, chances are you'll have no real need to cut for 6+ months. And even then you're talking a 4 week or so cut.
How "clean" your food is matters not when bulking. Get your protein and don't worry about anything else. "Clean" food is mind poison for muscle gain.
Were I in your shoes I'd try to stay closer to 1 lb/wk, though always trying to stay slightly over, and bulk for at least 4 months before I even consider cutting.
Though you didn't mention anything about it, make sure you are strength training regularly.
3000-4000 cals is about right. You're a late teen male, about when most guys have a high degree of natural bulking going on anyway. Most guys will gain at least 20 lbs of muscle between their 18th and 23rd birthday without even trying. You don't really have to worry about getting fat until you're into your 20's. People take steroids to fake the effect of being a late teen male.0 -
So I was thinking of doing a nice dirty and aggressive bulk for the next month (aiming for 1 to 2 pounds week) and then do a quick cut to eliminate the excess fat. I will then do another strong bulk. During the bulk, I will be aiming for 3000 to 4000 calories a day of mostly clean but some junk and will cut on about 1800 calories.
Most people are so focused on the other stuff you wrote and your characterization of your plan that they kind of missed some big details.
1 lb/wk is NOT a dirty bulk. For a dude, especially a high teen/low twentysomething witha lot of weight to gain, that's just a bulk. Even 1.5 lb/wk is in the gray area, no other unenhanced demographic can pull it off without serious fat gain, but your demographic can.
You are drastically overestimating the fat gain. You'll almost surely be able to bulk for 3-4 months at 1 lb/wk before you see any real signs of fat gain. With your starting point and potential rate of muscle gain, chances are you'll have no real need to cut for 6+ months. And even then you're talking a 4 week or so cut.
How "clean" your food is matters not when bulking. Get your protein and don't worry about anything else. "Clean" food is mind poison for muscle gain.
Were I in your shoes I'd try to stay closer to 1 lb/wk, though always trying to stay slightly over, and bulk for at least 4 months before I even consider cutting.
Though you didn't mention anything about it, make sure you are strength training regularly.
3000-4000 cals is about right. You're a late teen male, about when most guys have a high degree of natural bulking going on anyway. Most guys will gain at least 20 lbs of muscle between their 18th and 23rd birthday without even trying. You don't really have to worry about getting fat until you're into your 20's. People take steroids to fake the effect of being a late teen male.
Thank you for actually reading the entire post. Others just saw certain buzzwords and made wrong conclusions.
I would prefer to gain 2 pounds a week for the next month to make my doctor super happy at my next weigh in. I figure after that I could cut some of the fat and then just continue on a more modest bulk. But for the time being, I want to eat and enjoy the food and try to gain faster. I understand this means more fat over the next month, but that can always be cut later. I just must ensure that I am gaining which is why I am afraid to try a slow bulk for this month since that runs a higher chance of not gaining. At least with a goal of 2 pounds a week, I know I will be gaining0 -
Just check your numbers again though on Scooby's calculator. You'll probably change fast and have to keep redoing them.
I say this Waldo because he's 5'7" and very slim. He's 18 though. I got his tdee at 2350 (moderate exercise) and adding 500 cals to that is 2850.
It would go up as he goes up in weight. Just trying to dial it in for him. He may freak out at the excess fat gain and go on starve binge cycle.
Just my obs, I have no experience in teen male bulking, but I know all about binging and purging and wanting to be in control.
OP I successfully bulked over winter and I'm slowly cutting the fat. It's much harder than my original hard cut. The hunger hormones are with me because I'm eating just under maintenance and nit losing any hard gained muscle.
By the way, Waldo is one of the most successful bulk and cutters around MFP, I would go with what he says.
One more thing, you are still recovering from your eating disorder, they tend to hang around for a bit, be diligent, sometimes they never really leave us, we just learn to manage them.
Edited again to say if you are sure about gaining 2lb per week add another 500 to the 2850 number. But remember you can only gain 1/2 lb muscle per week if properly heavy lifting, the rest will be fat, which I'm sure will look good anyway!0 -
Just check your numbers again though on Scooby's calculator. You'll probably change fast and have to keep redoing them.
I say this Waldo because he's 5'7" and very slim. He's 18 though. I got his tdee at 2350 (moderate exercise) and adding 500 cals to that is 2850.
It would go up as he goes up in weight. Just trying to dial it in for him. He may freak out at the excess fat gain and go on starve binge cycle.
Just my obs, I have no experience in teen male bulking, but I know all about binging and purging and wanting to be in control.
OP I successfully bulked over winter and I'm slowly cutting the fat. It's much harder than my original hard cut. The hunger hormones are with me because I'm eating just under maintenance and nit losing any hard gained muscle.
By the way, Waldo is one of the most successful bulk and cutters around MFP, I would go with what he says.
One more thing, you are still recovering from your eating disorder, they tend to hang around for a bit, be diligent, sometimes they never really leave us, we just learn to manage them.
Edited again to say if you are sure about gaining 2lb per week add another 500 to the 2850 number. But remember you can only gain 1/2 lb muscle per week if properly heavy lifting, the rest will be fat, which I'm sure will look good anyway!
Thank you for the reply and help!
I think I will try around 3000 calories average per day and see how that goes. I say average since on some days I eat 3500 to 4000 calories while on others I eat 2000 to 2500 calories. But in the end of the week, it still averages 3000ish a day0 -
Great start!
Keep logs of everything, so you can find out how your body works! Also, you may need to eat even more to repair the ED damage, so if your weight gain is slow or less than expected, you will be going through a lot of internal changes to recover from the lack of nutrients. There a couple more guys just like you around at the moment, try and reach out to them so you can help and educate each other.0 -
I would suggest enjoying this aggressive bulk and putting on as much weight as you can, but in a structured manner (i.e. monitoring your macro nutrient intake as opposed to simply eating anything and everything in sight).
I also suggest doing a slow cut afterwards to preserve as much muscle as you can while trimming the fat. Quick (and aggressive) cuts mean severe caloric deficits which also mean you're likely to lose the muscle that you gained (and fat, yes) during your bulk.
In my opinion, cuts are miserable. I love food. That being said, I think the goal is to eat as much food as you can while still achieving your goals.0 -
I would suggest enjoying this aggressive bulk and putting on as much weight as you can, but in a structured manner (i.e. monitoring your macro nutrient intake as opposed to simply eating anything and everything in sight).
I also suggest doing a slow cut afterwards to preserve as much muscle as you can while trimming the fat. Quick (and aggressive) cuts mean severe caloric deficits which also mean you're likely to lose the muscle that you gained (and fat, yes) during your bulk.
In my opinion, cuts are miserable. I love food. That being said, I think the goal is to eat as much food as you can while still achieving your goals.
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....
This , naturally speaking
OP if I were you id go on a calorie surplus for atleast 6 months before I even consider losing weight0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....
This , naturally speaking
OP if I were you id go on a calorie surplus for atleast 6 months before I even consider losing weight
Don't forget the OP is likely going to be on the upper fringe of what is possible naturally. Between the recovering lost muscle mass effect, the newbie effect, and being an 18 yr old male, OP has the potential to grow like a weed, outdoing even "assisted" adults.
Chances are he will gain muscle so fast that he will maintain his current body fat % for quite some time despite the surplus, the muscle gains balancing the fat gain.
But I second the notion that you really shouldn't even consider cutting for 3-4 months, even then chances are you'll be happy enough with where you're at that it'll be 6-9 months before you'll want to cut.0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....
unless you're a female who picks up anything but a colored weight.
it's not a few weeks- that *kitten* builds over night- insta' bulk.0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....
unless you're a female who picks up anything but a colored weight.
it's not a few weeks- that *kitten* builds over night- insta' bulk.
But only in the thighs.0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....
This , naturally speaking
OP if I were you id go on a calorie surplus for atleast 6 months before I even consider losing weight
Don't forget the OP is likely going to be on the upper fringe of what is possible naturally. Between the recovering lost muscle mass effect, the newbie effect, and being an 18 yr old male, OP has the potential to grow like a weed, outdoing even "assisted" adults.
Chances are he will gain muscle so fast that he will maintain his current body fat % for quite some time despite the surplus, the muscle gains balancing the fat gain.
But I second the notion that you really shouldn't even consider cutting for 3-4 months, even then chances are you'll be happy enough with where you're at that it'll be 6-9 months before you'll want to cut.
Well my plan is to do the aggressive bulk for the next month. The cut will be really short like only 1 or 2 weeks. This is just to keep my fat gains in check and also so I don't shock myself by becoming fatter than I wanted and resort back yo serious ED behavior. After the short cut, I am going to continue to bulk for another 1 to 1.5 months followed by another really short cut.
I understand this may mot be the most ideal way to go about weight gain but for me I believe it might be best. I don't want to do a really long bulk right now just because I don't want to get too big too fast and would prefer to keep my weight more in check by doing mini bulls and cuts. This way, I will be able to build muscle and then lose the inevitable fat that will come along with the dirty bulk.
So to everyone: does 3000 to 4000 calories for my dirty bulk sound good?
Remember I am quite active. For example, since its spring break, I am wearing ankle weights and pace at a fast speed around my room all day which amounts to 10 plus hours a day. I understand this burns calories But the pacing is anxiety and boredom related, I cannot stop it. At least on school days, I can't pace for as many hours but I do bounce my legs like crazy while sitting0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....
This , naturally speaking
OP if I were you id go on a calorie surplus for atleast 6 months before I even consider losing weight
Don't forget the OP is likely going to be on the upper fringe of what is possible naturally. Between the recovering lost muscle mass effect, the newbie effect, and being an 18 yr old male, OP has the potential to grow like a weed, outdoing even "assisted" adults.
Chances are he will gain muscle so fast that he will maintain his current body fat % for quite some time despite the surplus, the muscle gains balancing the fat gain.
But I second the notion that you really shouldn't even consider cutting for 3-4 months, even then chances are you'll be happy enough with where you're at that it'll be 6-9 months before you'll want to cut.
Well my plan is to do the aggressive bulk for the next month. The cut will be really short like only 1 or 2 weeks. This is just to keep my fat gains in check and also so I don't shock myself by becoming fatter than I wanted and resort back yo serious ED behavior. After the short cut, I am going to continue to bulk for another 1 to 1.5 months followed by another really short cut.
I understand this may mot be the most ideal way to go about weight gain but for me I believe it might be best. I don't want to do a really long bulk right now just because I don't want to get too big too fast and would prefer to keep my weight more in check by doing mini bulls and cuts. This way, I will be able to build muscle and then lose the inevitable fat that will come along with the dirty bulk.
So to everyone: does 3000 to 4000 calories for my dirty bulk sound good?
Remember I am quite active. For example, since its spring break, I am wearing ankle weights and pace at a fast speed around my room all day which amounts to 10 plus hours a day. I understand this burns calories But the pacing is anxiety and boredom related, I cannot stop it. At least on school days, I can't pace for as many hours but I do bounce my legs like crazy while sitting
During a bulk, you might want to reconsider the ankle weights and pacing and stuff. The idea is that during a bulk you want to minimize cardio, as you want the calories to be fueling muscle growth, not re-fueling other activities.
Also, it has been said here several times (and you haven't said if you are or not), but you have to LIFT HEAVY. You aren't going to gain lots of muscle if you aren't picking up heavy things and putting them down again. Get on a good progressive lifting program like Stronglifts, Starting Strength etc if you aren't already.0 -
Ya I think this plan sounds good. I will work hard to gain as much as possible for a couple of weeks so I gain lots of muscle but also lots of fat. I will then do a more modest cut in a month to lose some of that and show off my new muscle!
its physically impossible to build 'lots of muscle' in a few weeks....
This , naturally speaking
OP if I were you id go on a calorie surplus for atleast 6 months before I even consider losing weight
Don't forget the OP is likely going to be on the upper fringe of what is possible naturally. Between the recovering lost muscle mass effect, the newbie effect, and being an 18 yr old male, OP has the potential to grow like a weed, outdoing even "assisted" adults.
Chances are he will gain muscle so fast that he will maintain his current body fat % for quite some time despite the surplus, the muscle gains balancing the fat gain.
But I second the notion that you really shouldn't even consider cutting for 3-4 months, even then chances are you'll be happy enough with where you're at that it'll be 6-9 months before you'll want to cut.
Well my plan is to do the aggressive bulk for the next month. The cut will be really short like only 1 or 2 weeks. This is just to keep my fat gains in check and also so I don't shock myself by becoming fatter than I wanted and resort back yo serious ED behavior. After the short cut, I am going to continue to bulk for another 1 to 1.5 months followed by another really short cut.
I understand this may mot be the most ideal way to go about weight gain but for me I believe it might be best. I don't want to do a really long bulk right now just because I don't want to get too big too fast and would prefer to keep my weight more in check by doing mini bulls and cuts. This way, I will be able to build muscle and then lose the inevitable fat that will come along with the dirty bulk.
So to everyone: does 3000 to 4000 calories for my dirty bulk sound good?
Remember I am quite active. For example, since its spring break, I am wearing ankle weights and pace at a fast speed around my room all day which amounts to 10 plus hours a day. I understand this burns calories But the pacing is anxiety and boredom related, I cannot stop it. At least on school days, I can't pace for as many hours but I do bounce my legs like crazy while sitting
During a bulk, you might want to reconsider the ankle weights and pacing and stuff. The idea is that during a bulk you want to minimize cardio, as you want the calories to be fueling muscle growth, not re-fueling other activities.
Also, it has been said here several times (and you haven't said if you are or not), but you have to LIFT HEAVY. You aren't going to gain lots of muscle if you aren't picking up heavy things and putting them down again. Get on a good progressive lifting program like Stronglifts, Starting Strength etc if you aren't already.
I am doing lifting every other day.t I know the pacing is counterproductive but I can't simply stop it. That's why I'm curious how much to eat to eat it back0 -
Eat enough to gain the weight you need! Shooting for a minimum of 3,000 - 4,000 sounds reasonable, based on what others have written above, but you'll have to adjust as necessary. You'll probably gain some water weight when you first start re-eating, so let this stabilize for a week or two and then go from there. If you aren't gaining enough, eat more! How much does the Doc want you to gain for your next weigh in?
Do make sure you get enough protein - shoot for at least 115 g per day, probably closer to 200 would be better. You'll need it to build muscle. Use a shake if you have to, but try and get most from real food. I was just reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book, and he suggests a 50 g protein shake before every meal, and to eat 4-6 times a day, with 30-50 g of protein (fish, meat, eggs etc) per meal!0
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