Short Dirty Bulk?
Options
Replies
-
Yahoo I think will just follow more of what Aaron and also said.
I do appreciate everyone's concerns but I think some of them are over reacting. I recognize that I am not fully recovered but it's not as bad as some are making out to be.
oh look.
someone completely ignores several repeating themes in different posts by different authors and picks the ONE guy who agrees with him.
seems legit.
OP- good luck with your process. I'd love to see how things are going in a year- I wish you the best of luck.
No it is not just one person who said that, it had been multiple. Its been about a 50 50 split on whether this is a good idea.
Maybe you should read through my entire OP and also the entire thread and not just jump to conclusions. People like you are very aggravating. I appreciate your attempt at help but you are not being helpful. You need to actually read my entire post and not just key words and actually read all the previous threads. I am getting sick of people like you who are not really looking out foe the best for me and are simply skimming posts and trying to up their post count. If you actually invest some time and give me a real answer, I will listen. But I will ignore all of you who are misinformed and not taking the time to actually read my entire situation. You all need to stop simply saying something like go to a doctor since if you even read the first sentence of my OP, you would know I am in treatment. Sometimes I just want a little extra assurance but I am still working with a doctor. If you want to actually help me, you can stay. But if you are too stubborn to read my situation and give legitimate input, please get out of my thread.
Thank you.0 -
0
-
I don't know what these other posters are talking about but they've clearly never bulked. 1-2 pounds a week is most definitely a dirty bulk. As a non-enhanced lifter if you were to put on 4-8lbs a month for a whole year you'd gain 52-104lbs and the majority of that would be fat.
1 lb/wk is absolutely not a dirty bulk for an underweight 18 year old male who is bulking for the first time. Even 1.5 lb/wk isn't really.
The same rules that apply to enhanced lifters also apply to underweight 18 year old male beginners.
Granted the gain rate will taper off, but he's got 2-3 months of muscle building potential that pretty much blows away every non-enhanced lifter, and many enhanced ones.0 -
Pretty much everybody suggested that, whether you bulk clean or dirty...one pound a month or one pound a week...that you do it for 4-6 months at a time.0
-
I just use the calories as a guideline to help me and to help justify the mass quantities. Would 2 pounds a week be healthy though considering I'm so skinny and borderline underweight?
IMHO weighing 120lbs as an 18 yo male should be all the justification you need for mass quantities of food. As long as you are getting some protein and lifting heavy weights you will be fine. Get your mind right regarding your body image and your ED and quit wasting time worrying about bulk / cut cycles.
Best of luck to you.0 -
Looking at your pictures you have no fat and really no muscle either. Even if you do dirty bulk you should not stop for at least 6 months. You need to build the muscle first. Your body will have no problem holding onto the fat for that amount of time.
I really think you need to consider what some of these other people that you have dismissed are saying.0 -
OP, do you know the root issues with your eating disorder?
The reason I say this is that I had one at one point too when I was about your age. But it was nothing like ED's normally associated with women, the root cause was totally different. Most of the people talking about ED's in this thread are approaching from the angle of women's ED's.
Mine stemmed from the fact that a lot of food for some reason repulsed me. I'd forget to eat a lot. Entering the wide world of eating on my own was not kind to me. It had nothing to do with body image though (being male, being skinny and underweight is worse than being fat). I knew I had to eat so I forced myself to eat. I ate a lot of crap because it was the only thing I could stand and keep down. Like you I could eat absolutely massive intakes if it was the right food. I can't count how many times I sat there with a big plate of food in front of me. Wanting to eat it. Knowing I needed to eat it. But just a few bites made me want to hurl.
But over time I learned to cook and I learned which foods I liked and the issue largely cleared up on its own.0 -
OP - might be some inspiration and info for you if you want to read it.
http://stronglifts.com/hardgainer-jake-gains-100lb-weight-without-getting-fat/
At any rate, look at the length of time that he bulked - 2.5 yrs! You are talking about bulking for a month, then cutting. Your idea is right, but your timescale is way off. If you are putting in the effort and eating a decent macro ratio you could bulk for a long, long time (100 weeks at a 0.5lb per week gain, for example) before you would have any real need to cut.0 -
Yahoo I think will just follow more of what Aaron and also said.
I do appreciate everyone's concerns but I think some of them are over reacting. I recognize that I am not fully recovered but it's not as bad as some are making out to be.
oh look.
someone completely ignores several repeating themes in different posts by different authors and picks the ONE guy who agrees with him.
seems legit.
OP- good luck with your process. I'd love to see how things are going in a year- I wish you the best of luck.
No it is not just one person who said that, it had been multiple. Its been about a 50 50 split on whether this is a good idea.
Maybe you should read through my entire OP and also the entire thread and not just jump to conclusions. People like you are very aggravating. I appreciate your attempt at help but you are not being helpful. You need to actually read my entire post and not just key words and actually read all the previous threads. I am getting sick of people like you who are not really looking out foe the best for me and are simply skimming posts and trying to up their post count. If you actually invest some time and give me a real answer, I will listen. But I will ignore all of you who are misinformed and not taking the time to actually read my entire situation. You all need to stop simply saying something like go to a doctor since if you even read the first sentence of my OP, you would know I am in treatment. Sometimes I just want a little extra assurance but I am still working with a doctor. If you want to actually help me, you can stay. But if you are too stubborn to read my situation and give legitimate input, please get out of my thread.
Thank you.
I did- and I read all of your posts. I stand by my original answers. I'm not on here for my health and because I like to "up my post count" - my self worth isn't wrapped up in that. I'm ACTUALLY trying to help- I'm almost twice your age and have been lifting for a very long time- and the things you are saying are raising red flags- not just ONE- but many.
We ARE trying to help you and you are picking and choosing advice- rather than listening to all of it... speaking of aggravating people cough cough cough
You should seek help- not just from a doctor- a forum board is nice- but what you are doing needs guidance- from a sound nutritionist and someone who works with lifting- who knows how to work on such things. Doctors often don't know jack about weight lifting and what weight gain/bulking/cutting is about. That's a different field.0 -
Waldo-
I do have a good idea where the ED came from. It all started out of boredom really. As I was bored, I would want to eat. Afraid of this behavior, I started to monitor what I ate and track it. Also as I was bored, I would do a lot of cardio. Slowly I did more and more cardio and continued to track what I ate. I eventually started to isolate more so I could follow my eating regime and exercise schedule. It just slowly got out of hand and I'm struggling to break it. I lost many of my friends from the isolation and this created social problems. This started to lead to some body image issues. These issues are not too extreme for me but do exist. My main problem exists just around the health aspect. I have spent years reading health articles and stuff and am now someone obsessed with health. I got caught in the weight lost craze. I am still very afraid of stopping some of my old habits bad have proudly broken many of them (for example, I now can enjoy chocolate almost everyday after giving it up for over 1.5 years!) The good news is, I did gain from 102 to 122 over the course of months. The bad news is, I'm now closer to 115 and want to get back to that 122 before my next weigh in on April 22. I did not actually lose 7 pounds, a lot of this was water weight (I know this since I was eating 2000+ calories and lost 3 pounds in one day. Water weight is the only that much could have happened over night). Since a lot of it was water weight, I don't have to actually gain 7 pounds of fat/ muscle by April 22 since my weight will probably also increase by 3 to 4 pounds as I rebegin some sort of bulk and eat a bunch more salty foods and carbs.
Mike-
The reason I don't want to do a bulk for 6 months straight is because I don't want the weight to be too noticeable. I want to keep it in line by using the occasional really short cut.
Irmall-
You are right. Just based off my weight, height, and age, I need to do a dirty bulk. Its just hard since I already gained up from 102 and sometimes just need some inspiration to keep going. That article definitely did stimulate me. Thank you.0 -
i have to admit, when you started out saying that you were recovering from an eating disorder, and you could do quick super high cal bulk but not a longer drawn out more resonable calorie bulk it just seemed like you were setting yourself up for more issues with eating disorders.
but my new mantra is 'waldo is always right' lol.
those who know much more then i on this subject have weighted in, good luck i seem to be constantly stuck in 'weight loss' mode unitll i hit a few weeks where i'll consume like 5000 cals + a day, then i'm halfway back to where i started.
maybe i'm the one with the eating disorder.0 -
Sorry I kind of snapped at you, I was in a bad mood (my dog just woke me up and it was only 6 am haha). I do appreciate your advice. I am very aggravated with these "professionals". I have been to three nutritionists and the first two said I only need 2000 calories to gain and the third was also very misinformed, was obese, and told me about how she ate mcdonalds everyday for lunch. I am turning towards these boards since I want the council of people who actually have real life experience in this stuff, and not just book knowledge like the professionals. I do intend to do a long term bulk. I just want to do a VERY short cut every month or so just to keep the weight in check and to ensure that my muscles are still visible. This is just to make sure I don't gain too much unwantedweight and ffreak out. I just believe given my history, this is the safest approach.Yahoo I think will just follow more of what Aaron and also said.
I do appreciate everyone's concerns but I think some of them are over reacting. I recognize that I am not fully recovered but it's not as bad as some are making out to be.
oh look.
someone completely ignores several repeating themes in different posts by different authors and picks the ONE guy who agrees with him.
seems legit.
OP- good luck with your process. I'd love to see how things are going in a year- I wish you the best of luck.
No it is not just one person who said that, it had been multiple. Its been about a 50 50 split on whether this is a good idea.
Maybe you should read through my entire OP and also the entire thread and not just jump to conclusions. People like you are very aggravating. I appreciate your attempt at help but you are not being helpful. You need to actually read my entire post and not just key words and actually read all the previous threads. I am getting sick of people like you who are not really looking out foe the best for me and are simply skimming posts and trying to up their post count. If you actually invest some time and give me a real answer, I will listen. But I will ignore all of you who are misinformed and not taking the time to actually read my entire situation. You all need to stop simply saying something like go to a doctor since if you even read the first sentence of my OP, you would know I am in treatment. Sometimes I just want a little extra assurance but I am still working with a doctor. If you want to actually help me, you can stay. But if you are too stubborn to read my situation and give legitimate input, please get out of my thread.
Thank you.
I did- and I read all of your posts. I stand by my original answers. I'm not on here for my health and because I like to "up my post count" - my self worth isn't wrapped up in that. I'm ACTUALLY trying to help- I'm almost twice your age and have been lifting for a very long time- and the things you are saying are raising red flags- not just ONE- but many.
We ARE trying to help you and you are picking and choosing advice- rather than listening to all of it... speaking of aggravating people cough cough cough
You should seek help- not just from a doctor- a forum board is nice- but what you are doing needs guidance- from a sound nutritionist and someone who works with lifting- who knows how to work on such things. Doctors often don't know jack about weight lifting and what weight gain/bulking/cutting is about. That's a different field.0 -
confused on the term 'dirty bulk'.
this means you don't care where your calories come from or you will eat a lot of calories?0 -
Sorry I kind of snapped at you, I was in a bad mood (my dog just woke me up and it was only 6 am haha). I do appreciate your advice. I am very aggravated with these "professionals". I have been to three nutritionists and the first two said I only need 2000 calories to gain and the third was also very misinformed, was obese, and told me about how she ate mcdonalds everyday for lunch. I am turning towards these boards since I want the council of people who actually have real life experience in this stuff, and not just book knowledge like the professionals. I do intend to do a long term bulk. I just want to do a VERY short cut every month or so just to keep the weight in check and to ensure that my muscles are still visible. This is just to make sure I don't gain too much unwantedweight and ffreak out. I just believe given my history, this is the safest approach.
Here's a tip and what I do in order to stay lean while bulking.
Instead of saying I'm going to gain x amount or weight or bulk x amount of time, I use the tape measure. A tape measure around the waist is a near direct measurement of bodyfat. Take a few different ones including "cheated" measurements so that you can be absolutely certain that you are measuring the same way (I measure fully flexed at the thinnest point and unflexed sucked in at the belly button, both cheated as much as possible).
1" of size gain around the waist is virtually imperceptible. You may notice because you see yourself naked all the time, but noone else will, even spouses. 1" of size gain around the waist takes 2-3 weeks to cut off, 4 if you're really taking it easy on the cut. Cycle bulking and cutting to keep yourself within that 1" band. As you gain muscle mass your body fat% will drop while in that band, so you can let the band drift upwards over time.
You'll almost surely find that unless you go extreme full pig mode, its gonna take a lot longer than a month to gain 1".0 -
Reading the advice that's been given, a controlled bulk over the next year should give you exactly what you want: tons of muscle and little extra body fat. You probably will gain fat but, given your potential to add muscle at the same time, you might not notice a difference around your belly.
And do take off the ankle weights. They'll mess up your knees.0 -
Sorry I kind of snapped at you, I was in a bad mood (my dog just woke me up and it was only 6 am haha). I do appreciate your advice. I am very aggravated with these "professionals". I have been to three nutritionists and the first two said I only need 2000 calories to gain and the third was also very misinformed, was obese, and told me about how she ate mcdonalds everyday for lunch. I am turning towards these boards since I want the council of people who actually have real life experience in this stuff, and not just book knowledge like the professionals. I do intend to do a long term bulk. I just want to do a VERY short cut every month or so just to keep the weight in check and to ensure that my muscles are still visible. This is just to make sure I don't gain too much unwantedweight and ffreak out. I just believe given my history, this is the safest approach.
Here's a tip and what I do in order to stay lean while bulking.
Instead of saying I'm going to gain x amount or weight or bulk x amount of time, I use the tape measure. A tape measure around the waist is a near direct measurement of bodyfat. Take a few different ones including "cheated" measurements so that you can be absolutely certain that you are measuring the same way (I measure fully flexed at the thinnest point and unflexed sucked in at the belly button, both cheated as much as possible).
1" of size gain around the waist is virtually imperceptible. You may notice because you see yourself naked all the time, but noone else will, even spouses. 1" of size gain around the waist takes 2-3 weeks to cut off, 4 if you're really taking it easy on the cut. Cycle bulking and cutting to keep yourself within that 1" band. As you gain muscle mass your body fat% will drop while in that band, so you can let the band drift upwards over time.
You'll almost surely find that unless you go extreme full pig mode, its gonna take a lot longer than a month to gain 1".
That's a great idea! I think I will try that out. That method should help me hit my goal by April 22 and will be really after over the next month's as I continue to bulk0 -
1" of size gain around the waist is virtually imperceptible. You may notice because you see yourself naked all the time, but noone else will, even spouses. 1" of size gain around the waist takes 2-3 weeks to cut off, 4 if you're really taking it easy on the cut. Cycle bulking and cutting to keep yourself within that 1" band. As you gain muscle mass your body fat% will drop while in that band, so you can let the band drift upwards over time.
i don't understand what you mean by 'let the band drift upwards'.
also, i've been hearing that you only need in the range of 1 g of protien per lbs body weight when cutting. and you really need far less when bulking. is that true? whats the considered adaquet protien when bulking?
sorry if this has already been coved in th thread0 -
1" of size gain around the waist is virtually imperceptible. You may notice because you see yourself naked all the time, but noone else will, even spouses. 1" of size gain around the waist takes 2-3 weeks to cut off, 4 if you're really taking it easy on the cut. Cycle bulking and cutting to keep yourself within that 1" band. As you gain muscle mass your body fat% will drop while in that band, so you can let the band drift upwards over time.
i don't understand what you mean by 'let the band drift upwards'.
also, i've been hearing that you only need in the range of 1 g of protien per lbs body weight when cutting. and you really need far less when bulking. is that true? whats the considered adaquet protien when bulking?
sorry if this has already been coved in th thread
Well measuring around the waist is a fairly good direct measurement of fat mass for males and apple shaped women. Converting the tape measure to pounds accurately is a different story, but it is a fairly linear relationship with a fair bit of individual variation; but tape to tape comparisons are very accurate.
Keeping fat mass in a fixed band will cause body fat % to drop as muscle mass is gained. Plus there is some hypertrophy of the abs/obliques/back so that fat mass at any given measurement will slowly decline.
Say for example you keep your waist in a 30"-31" band. As you gain muscle mass and your overall weight increases, the body fat % of that band will continuously decline. What was 12%-14% @ 150 lbs might be 8%-10% @ 180 lbs. So there has to be some allowance over time for that band to drift upwards to keep you in a target body fat range (10%-12% is about ideal for bulking).
1g protein / lb bodyweight is more than enough for either bulking or cutting. Its more important when cutting.0 -
Sorry I kind of snapped at you, I was in a bad mood (my dog just woke me up and it was only 6 am haha). I do appreciate your advice. I am very aggravated with these "professionals". I have been to three nutritionists and the first two said I only need 2000 calories to gain and the third was also very misinformed, was obese, and told me about how she ate mcdonalds everyday for lunch. I am turning towards these boards since I want the council of people who actually have real life experience in this stuff, and not just book knowledge like the professionals. I do intend to do a long term bulk. I just want to do a VERY short cut every month or so just to keep the weight in check and to ensure that my muscles are still visible. This is just to make sure I don't gain too much unwantedweight and ffreak out. I just believe given my history, this is the safest approach.
apology accepted.
Walso is probably the best resource here to be honest. We have experience- but as someone said "waldo is always right" usually because he is.
Just remember- you are going to have weight gain- recomping just is not effective. I can show you pictures from my bulk that I'm wrapping up this week- I started in November- I've put on 20 lbs. I still look pretty damn good- I still have muscles you can see- I'm a little more plump but I have great quad definition and great back/arm definition. I am now a whopping 180 lbs- still a head turner.
wink wink- LOL perhaps I should just have my own thread for that though- I'll set it up after this weekend and repost it here.
Fat comes with muscle. I really would encourage you to keep pursing a healthy relationship with food- repair that and focus on physical gains- progress IN the gym and tape measures rather than "oh I'm too fat" and a number- or what you look like.
It's a hard process as it is- then add in your past history and you are really going to have to work on this whole food/weight/appearance thing.
It can be done- Waldo is proof of this- I'm proof of this (I had my own history with some unhealthy food issues for a stint in college). You can not only fix and repair- you can go past that and become something totally different and amazing after that- it's possible. People WILL help you get there- you just have to be willing to listen.0 -
1" of size gain around the waist is virtually imperceptible. You may notice because you see yourself naked all the time, but noone else will, even spouses. 1" of size gain around the waist takes 2-3 weeks to cut off, 4 if you're really taking it easy on the cut. Cycle bulking and cutting to keep yourself within that 1" band. As you gain muscle mass your body fat% will drop while in that band, so you can let the band drift upwards over time.
i don't understand what you mean by 'let the band drift upwards'.
also, i've been hearing that you only need in the range of 1 g of protien per lbs body weight when cutting. and you really need far less when bulking. is that true? whats the considered adaquet protien when bulking?
sorry if this has already been coved in th thread
Well measuring around the waist is a fairly good direct measurement of fat mass for males and apple shaped women. Converting the tape measure to pounds accurately is a different story, but it is a fairly linear relationship with a fair bit of individual variation; but tape to tape comparisons are very accurate.
Keeping fat mass in a fixed band will cause body fat % to drop as muscle mass is gained. Plus there is some hypertrophy of the abs/obliques/back so that fat mass at any given measurement will slowly decline.
Say for example you keep your waist in a 30"-31" band. As you gain muscle mass and your overall weight increases, the body fat % of that band will continuously decline. What was 12%-14% @ 150 lbs might be 8%-10% @ 180 lbs. So there has to be some allowance over time for that band to drift upwards to keep you in a target body fat range (10%-12% is about ideal for bulking).
1g protein / lb bodyweight is more than enough for either bulking or cutting. Its more important when cutting.
so you are constantly eating 1b per lbs bodyweight? i was reading that you could go as low as .3 g per lbs body weight when bulking (read on this forum lol).0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.8K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 396 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 968 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions