Short Dirty Bulk?

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  • lrmall01
    lrmall01 Posts: 377 Member
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    so you are constantly eating 1b per lbs bodyweight? i was reading that you could go as low as .3 g per lbs body weight when bulking (read on this forum lol).

    1g / lb is fine if you aren't obese. For example, if you weigh 165lb, then 1g / lb isn't a big deal. If you weigh 265lbs, then eating 1g / lb doesn't make sense. Perhaps the 0.3g per lb body weight was a specific suggestion for someone who had a very high body fat percentage.

    This is why a lot of people recommend protein intakes with relation to lean body mass, not body weight.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
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    so you are constantly eating 1b per lbs bodyweight? i was reading that you could go as low as .3 g per lbs body weight when bulking (read on this forum lol).

    1g / lb is fine if you aren't obese. For example, if you weigh 165lb, then 1g / lb isn't a big deal. If you weigh 265lbs, then eating 1g / lb doesn't make sense. Perhaps the 0.3g per lb body weight was a specific suggestion for someone who had a very high body fat percentage.

    This is why a lot of people recommend protein intakes with relation to lean body mass, not body weight.

    Yeah, pegging protein to bodyweight only makes sense if you are already lean. Otherwise it should be tied to lean mass.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
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    1" of size gain around the waist is virtually imperceptible. You may notice because you see yourself naked all the time, but noone else will, even spouses. 1" of size gain around the waist takes 2-3 weeks to cut off, 4 if you're really taking it easy on the cut. Cycle bulking and cutting to keep yourself within that 1" band. As you gain muscle mass your body fat% will drop while in that band, so you can let the band drift upwards over time.

    i don't understand what you mean by 'let the band drift upwards'.

    also, i've been hearing that you only need in the range of 1 g of protien per lbs body weight when cutting. and you really need far less when bulking. is that true? whats the considered adaquet protien when bulking?

    sorry if this has already been coved in th thread

    Well measuring around the waist is a fairly good direct measurement of fat mass for males and apple shaped women. Converting the tape measure to pounds accurately is a different story, but it is a fairly linear relationship with a fair bit of individual variation; but tape to tape comparisons are very accurate.

    Keeping fat mass in a fixed band will cause body fat % to drop as muscle mass is gained. Plus there is some hypertrophy of the abs/obliques/back so that fat mass at any given measurement will slowly decline.

    Say for example you keep your waist in a 30"-31" band. As you gain muscle mass and your overall weight increases, the body fat % of that band will continuously decline. What was 12%-14% @ 150 lbs might be 8%-10% @ 180 lbs. So there has to be some allowance over time for that band to drift upwards to keep you in a target body fat range (10%-12% is about ideal for bulking).

    1g protein / lb bodyweight is more than enough for either bulking or cutting. Its more important when cutting.

    so you are constantly eating 1b per lbs bodyweight? i was reading that you could go as low as .3 g per lbs body weight when bulking (read on this forum lol).

    I stick to 1 g/lb bodyweight no matter what. More of a habit than anything. My diet is so adjusted to that I really don't have to try to hit it.

    If you are only taking in .3 g/lb BW protein when bulking, something is terribly wrong, because at bulking food volumes, even trace amounts of protein adds up to a lot.
  • Glitch000019
    Glitch000019 Posts: 27
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    1" of size gain around the waist is virtually imperceptible. You may notice because you see yourself naked all the time, but noone else will, even spouses. 1" of size gain around the waist takes 2-3 weeks to cut off, 4 if you're really taking it easy on the cut. Cycle bulking and cutting to keep yourself within that 1" band. As you gain muscle mass your body fat% will drop while in that band, so you can let the band drift upwards over time.

    i don't understand what you mean by 'let the band drift upwards'.

    also, i've been hearing that you only need in the range of 1 g of protien per lbs body weight when cutting. and you really need far less when bulking. is that true? whats the considered adaquet protien when bulking?

    sorry if this has already been coved in th thread

    Well measuring around the waist is a fairly good direct measurement of fat mass for males and apple shaped women. Converting the tape measure to pounds accurately is a different story, but it is a fairly linear relationship with a fair bit of individual variation; but tape to tape comparisons are very accurate.

    Keeping fat mass in a fixed band will cause body fat % to drop as muscle mass is gained. Plus there is some hypertrophy of the abs/obliques/back so that fat mass at any given measurement will slowly decline.

    Say for example you keep your waist in a 30"-31" band. As you gain muscle mass and your overall weight increases, the body fat % of that band will continuously decline. What was 12%-14% @ 150 lbs might be 8%-10% @ 180 lbs. So there has to be some allowance over time for that band to drift upwards to keep you in a target body fat range (10%-12% is about ideal for bulking).

    1g protein / lb bodyweight is more than enough for either bulking or cutting. Its more important when cutting.

    so you are constantly eating 1b per lbs bodyweight? i was reading that you could go as low as .3 g per lbs body weight when bulking (read on this forum lol).

    I stick to 1 g/lb bodyweight no matter what. More of a habit than anything. My diet is so adjusted to that I really don't have to try to hit it.

    If you are only taking in .3 g/lb BW protein when bulking, something is terribly wrong, because at bulking food volumes, even trace amounts of protein adds up to a lot.

    I have been aiming for 100+ grams of protein a day. This is going to be much more difficult to hit these next two days as I'm traveling with a school group and will be at a competition. Food will be more limited and we get proportioned meals at the banquets so I'm nervous of falling short of my calorie goals. I also find I am more hesitant to eat a bunch when I am on a trip since I feel nervous anxious and upset when full and can't work out at all. I just hope it all goes well and I brought plenty of protein bats and trail mix haha
  • Joehenny
    Joehenny Posts: 1,222 Member
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    I don't know what these other posters are talking about but they've clearly never bulked. 1-2 pounds a week is most definitely a dirty bulk. As a non-enhanced lifter if you were to put on 4-8lbs a month for a whole year you'd gain 52-104lbs and the majority of that would be fat.

    1 lb/wk is absolutely not a dirty bulk for an underweight 18 year old male who is bulking for the first time. Even 1.5 lb/wk isn't really.

    The same rules that apply to enhanced lifters also apply to underweight 18 year old male beginners.

    Granted the gain rate will taper off, but he's got 2-3 months of muscle building potential that pretty much blows away every non-enhanced lifter, and many enhanced ones.

    Do you have any evidence for any of the stuff you just said? Especially the part about a teens muscle building potential outranking an enhanced lifters?
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
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    I feel nervous anxious and upset when full

    and yet you say you want to bulk???
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
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    I don't know what these other posters are talking about but they've clearly never bulked. 1-2 pounds a week is most definitely a dirty bulk. As a non-enhanced lifter if you were to put on 4-8lbs a month for a whole year you'd gain 52-104lbs and the majority of that would be fat.

    1 lb/wk is absolutely not a dirty bulk for an underweight 18 year old male who is bulking for the first time. Even 1.5 lb/wk isn't really.

    The same rules that apply to enhanced lifters also apply to underweight 18 year old male beginners.

    Granted the gain rate will taper off, but he's got 2-3 months of muscle building potential that pretty much blows away every non-enhanced lifter, and many enhanced ones.

    Do you have any evidence for any of the stuff you just said? Especially the part about a teens muscle building potential outranking an enhanced lifters?

    From Lyle McDonald's site:
    Please note that these are averages and make a few assumptions about proper training and nutrition and such. As well, age will interact with this; older individuals won’t gain as quickly and younger individuals may gain more quickly. For example, it’s not unheard of for underweight high school kids to gain muscle very rapidly. But they are usually starting out very underweight and have the natural anabolic steroid cycle called puberty working for them.
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

    And just about any of Rippetoes writing on bulking up. Skinny underweight late teen male beginners are basically his target demographic. He's got plenty of evidence of gain rates far beyond what any other demographic can naturally achieve.
  • tpncc
    tpncc Posts: 10 Member
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    First, your post sounds like an excuse to binge wasted calories. Cookies, cakes, sugar, etc do nothing for your goal. If you need a snack and factor in the sugar, carbs.; eat a cookie. Don't use the program to justify the snacking.

    Second, short term bulking is done all the time. Don't stop lifting and don't sit on your butt telling yourself 'I'm bulking"...

    Read some of the stuff from a guy name Dan John. Around 20 years old he bulked 40 pounds of lean muscle in 4 weeks. Lots of protein, good food and intense lifting.

    Here's a link to his 'Mass Made Simple" page http://danjohn.net/2012/01/mass-made-simple-lite/
  • 12by311
    12by311 Posts: 1,719 Member
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    OP, you mentioned lifting one time in all of your posts. You said you were "lifting every other day".

    Curious to what exactly your lifting routine looks like...

    When people use the terms bulking and cutting they are usually pairing that with heavy lifting.

    I don't really get the impression you are trying to bulk for muscle gain. I read it as a bulk to gain quick weight to show your dr you are on the right track and then you want to get back to your lower weight.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,662 Member
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    First, your post sounds like an excuse to binge wasted calories. Cookies, cakes, sugar, etc do nothing for your goal. If you need a snack and factor in the sugar, carbs.; eat a cookie. Don't use the program to justify the snacking.

    Second, short term bulking is done all the time. Don't stop lifting and don't sit on your butt telling yourself 'I'm bulking"...

    Read some of the stuff from a guy name Dan John. Around 20 years old he bulked 40 pounds of lean muscle in 4 weeks. Lots of protein, good food and intense lifting.

    Here's a link to his 'Mass Made Simple" page http://danjohn.net/2012/01/mass-made-simple-lite/

    seems like pretty much impossible to add 40 lbs of lean mass in 4 weeks, even with steriods.

    unless maybe he was still growing and grew an inch or two in hieght. but that would not be 40 lbs of 'lean muslce' then
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    First, your post sounds like an excuse to binge wasted calories. Cookies, cakes, sugar, etc do nothing for your goal. If you need a snack and factor in the sugar, carbs.; eat a cookie. Don't use the program to justify the snacking.

    Second, short term bulking is done all the time. Don't stop lifting and don't sit on your butt telling yourself 'I'm bulking"...

    Read some of the stuff from a guy name Dan John. Around 20 years old he bulked 40 pounds of lean muscle in 4 weeks. Lots of protein, good food and intense lifting.

    Here's a link to his 'Mass Made Simple" page http://danjohn.net/2012/01/mass-made-simple-lite/

    meh- that's half the fun of bulking- rounding out your day with delicious high calorie snacks.

    My friends joked me on my ice cream and cookie bulk- but I've put on 20 lbs and seen some pretty nice gains. I of course obviously was trying to hit the rest of my goals- but I certainly wasn't stingy with the ice cream and oreos ;)

    also thinking 40 lbs of lean muscle in 4 weeks is raising my BS meter.
  • lrmall01
    lrmall01 Posts: 377 Member
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    also thinking 40 lbs of lean muscle in 4 weeks is raising my BS meter.

    Haha, me too but after reading the post the author nowhere states it was lean and it was 4 months, not 4 weeks. Here's the quote from the link that I think the poster is referencing:
    You are now going to stop worrying about every calorie like a college cheerleader. On a mass gaining program, you must eat. When I put on forty pounds in four months my freshman year in college, I used to eat some sandwiches BEFORE dinner so “I wouldn’t be so hungry during dinner.”
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    I can't access the article at work so I couldn't' follow up- the poster here said that.

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    And LULZ for eating before going to dinner- I have been coming home to eat big ole things of ice cream with crushed up oreos in them- probably 500 calories a piece- AFTER dinner. Delicious.

    I'm going to be so hungry cutting in april :( sad panda face.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,662 Member
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    You are now going to stop worrying about every calorie like a college cheerleader. On a mass gaining program, you must eat. When I put on forty pounds in four months my freshman year in college, I used to eat some sandwiches BEFORE dinner so “I wouldn’t be so hungry during dinner

    i probably gained around 40 my freshmen year, none of it was lean lol
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    we've graduated from freshman 15 to freshman 40 LMAO
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    I think I gained 50, but I was a 23-year-old woman and quit smoking at the same time.
  • 12by311
    12by311 Posts: 1,719 Member
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    we've graduated from freshman 15 to freshman 40 LMAO

    I called mine the Sophomore 24.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    I went to a military school- I put on 15 lbs- but it certainly wasn't all fat LOL.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    I'm rather split on this....

    I can understand needing to put on weight in general due to your height : weight ratio. I can even understanding you needing to add weight for your weigh-in.

    However, you say you have an eating disorder and love to binge. I'm not certain if recommending a dirty bulk is a good idea. All that does is further enforce the fact that it's OK to binge, perpetuates an already unhealthy view/relationship with food.

    So OP dirty bulks and gains 10 lbs. When it comes time to cut then what? My gut says it'll results in a failed cut(s) or yo-yo diet of binging. Now, I haven't read through the entire thread... but was there even a proper lifting program mentioned? I did see ankle weights... are we going to make quick gains with that?
  • Glitch000019
    Glitch000019 Posts: 27
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    How do you guys feel about adding splenda to coffee? I only drink it when travelling like today I had one cup of coffee with like 6 packets

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