ATKINS DIET - Anyone use this with any success?!

Why?
Do you see anyone on here who has reached their goal weight (and maintained) by using atkins?
No?
Gee, I wonder what that should tell you about restrictive fad diets.

In the interest of fairness and accuracy, I do know personally someone who has lost and maintained on Atkins.

HOWEVER....

I would NEVER recommend this for the majority of folks because of the restrictions he has to keep to stick with it. This guy never eats bread with sandwiches (he basically has a "meat salad" when he goes to Subway..gets all the innards in a bowl), snacks on pork rinds and cheese cubes, no crust at all when he gets pizza (scrapes off the toppings and sauce and eats that). Yes, he's skinny. Yes, he APPEARS healthy (I'm unaware of any serious health issues he has). Yes, he's giving up an awful lot to achieve those goals...I'd much rather put in the work in the gym and get to keep my carbs thank you very much.

I tried Atkins and I was hangry a lot. Most people need more carbs than you get on Atkins to get the FEELING of "full".

You're right.
There is a very small percentage of people for whom it might work long term (although health wise I'm still skeptical of so much fat.)
I just haven't really met anyone on here in that situation.

Low-carb food is some of the quickest and easiest food to cook, as long as you're not trying to replicate something that is normally high carb.

The easiest food to prepare, bar none, is fruit.

Pomagranet(sp?) hard as hell to eat!

Why?
Do you see anyone on here who has reached their goal weight (and maintained) by using atkins?
No?
Gee, I wonder what that should tell you about restrictive fad diets.

In the interest of fairness and accuracy, I do know personally someone who has lost and maintained on Atkins.

HOWEVER....

I would NEVER recommend this for the majority of folks because of the restrictions he has to keep to stick with it. This guy never eats bread with sandwiches (he basically has a "meat salad" when he goes to Subway..gets all the innards in a bowl), snacks on pork rinds and cheese cubes, no crust at all when he gets pizza (scrapes off the toppings and sauce and eats that). Yes, he's skinny. Yes, he APPEARS healthy (I'm unaware of any serious health issues he has). Yes, he's giving up an awful lot to achieve those goals...I'd much rather put in the work in the gym and get to keep my carbs thank you very much.

I tried Atkins and I was hangry a lot. Most people need more carbs than you get on Atkins to get the FEELING of "full".

You're right.
There is a very small percentage of people for whom it might work long term (although health wise I'm still skeptical of so much fat.)
I just haven't really met anyone on here in that situation.

I agree, I love fat don't get me wrong, but I'm not about to eat a pound of bacon a day. I like my heart beating and blood flowing unobstructed.

I would just low carb. I think some of atkins guidelines arent necessary.

Actually, it's a lot easier to get complete, healthy, well balanced food when you eat plant based. The only thing that needs to be supplemented B12, and that because we typically drink purified water in this country. I can understand the idea that the lifestyle seems complicated, though.

Source?

Link to an easy to prepare, simple, cheap, diet that won't cause nutrient deficiencies?

The purified water thing is laughably bad, though. Do you have a link that shows the amount of b12 in untreated river water?

Actually, it's a lot easier to get complete, healthy, well balanced food when you eat plant based. The only thing that needs to be supplemented B12, and that because we typically drink purified water in this country. I can understand the idea that the lifestyle seems complicated, though.

Source?

Link to an easy to prepare, simple, cheap, diet that won't cause nutrient deficiencies?

The purified water thing is laughably bad, though. Do you have a link that shows the amount of b12 in untreated river water?

Links go to websites, not diets, but if i was to somehow link you to a site that had recipes galore, of whole food plant based foods, that would supply your body with every nutrient, would you switch your diet? Would you even consider the info linked? Not into wasting my time.

Here's some top notch info on B12 for ya though: http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3273304345/

Links go to websites, not diets,

I was helping you out by setting the bar low. I would prefer actual research and non-observational studies. But, I was willing to start with links to any resources you wished to share.

but if i was to somehow link you to a site that had recipes galore, of whole food plant based foods, that would supply your body with every nutrient, would you switch your diet?

If those recipes were easier, cheaper, and demonstrably better for me than my current diet, yes. I admit the fact that I would only switch if it could be proven to be better for me than my current (almost pure carnivore) diet is a very high bar to set. I'm always willing to change my view. I don't promise to randomly accept anything at the slightest whim though.

Would you even consider the info linked? Not into wasting my time.

Of course I would. I see how you're playing off your inability to perform though. It's the "I'm so persecuted that I know you won't listen anyway, so I won't bother." What you fail to recognize is that I am serious. If you have data to support your views, present it. I'd love to see it. You pop up and make snide comments in a ton of threads, but you never actually support your views. I'm open to investigating that side. I won't lie, I've looked into veganism before (after watching Forks over Knives) and found it wanting. But, perhaps I didn't look deeply enough.

Here's some top notch info on B12 for ya though: http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3273304345/

Was that supposed to go to an American Dad clip? It wouldn't play anyway.

Of course I would. I see how you're playing off your inability to perform though. It's the "I'm so persecuted that I know you won't listen anyway, so I won't bother." What you fail to recognize is that I am serious. If you have data to support your views, present it. I'd love to see it. You pop up and make snide comments in a ton of threads, but you never actually support your views. I'm open to investigating that side. I won't lie, I've looked into veganism before (after watching Forks over Knives) and found it wanting. But, perhaps I didn't look deeply enough.

Was that supposed to go to an American Dad clip? It wouldn't play anyway.

Yea, it was American Dad, it was a joke. There was a 12 person boy band in the show called "B12" and they did a song.

Here's the thing about studies: there are tons of conflicting ones. I could link you a bunch of studies that show my side, and you could come back with some other study that conflicts it. I've gone on that merry go round on MFP before. I have read tons of info saying that meat, eggs, dairy, oils, etc are good for you. I have read tons of info saying they are bad. That's why i turned to epidemiology, my own experimentation and anecdotal info from all the others i know that have tried it. I also take into consideration all the doctors who treat serious medical conditions with a plant based diet, and the patients healed. From Max Gerson, to Caldwell Esselstyn, to Dean Ornish, to Joel Fuhrman, to John McDougall, to Alan Goldhamer, to Michael Klaper, to Matt Lederman, to Neal Barnard.

My own experimentation:
I have tried eating Atkins before, and i lost weight, and gained muscle during that period of time. (Late '05-mid'06) My cycling and running stamina didn't increase too much. After my Atkins trial, i excluded soda and refined carbohydrates other than bread from my diet. I ate that way for years, and only gained a few pounds a year. Then i saw Forks Over Knives, and thought it was vegan propaganda BS! The low carb, Atkins way of things was so ingrained in my head, it was hard to believe. Still, i thought it would be ridiculous not to try it.

So i tried eating a whole foods, plant based diet, and my energy shot through the roof. I felt happier than i had felt in years. I felt like i was 19 years old again!!! And those good feelings just increased as the weeks went by. A rash i had on my hand for 2 years from a AA battery exploding on it, WENT AWAY and never came back! My plantar fasciitis went away. I kept doing research, and kept finding conflicting data. I ate that way for four months total, and then figured a little meat couldn't hurt. Over the next year, i switched it up. I tried eating a mostly whole foods, plant based diet, but occasionally i'd have some brisket, or some pulled pork, or some other meat. There was a while, where i had no meat, but i'd eat some cheese. Basically, vegetarian. I tried excluding all animal products, but i'd include vegetable oils. I tried all sorts of different diets over my life, and the only one that gives me great feelings, cures my ailments, makes me feel younger, clears up my skin, makes me poop solid logs on a regular schedule, and drastically increases my cycling speed and stamina.

Epidemiology: (i'm well aware that correlation does not equal causation. Epidemiology alone is just a piece to the puzzle)
Loma linda study.
http://www.llu.edu/public-health/health/lifestyle_disease.page

The China Study.
Many claim to discredit parts of it, but Dr. Campbell cites well over 700 sources making his various claims about nutrition. Read the book, and think about it for yourself.
( NYTIMES article calling the "China-Cornell-Oxford Project" the "Grand Prix of Epidemiology.) http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/08/science/huge-study-of-diet-indicts-fat-and-meat.html?scp=8&sq="T. Colin Campbell"&st=cse )

The name of the book, "The China Study" is partially misleading, because it touches upon a lot more than just the "China-Cornell-Oxford Study". Dr. Campbell has been a nutritional scientist since my parents were kids.

The Framingham Study:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=framingham+heart+study&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=QLY8U-X3NIWD2gXMtIGABw&ved=0CCkQgQMwAA

This one, not sure of name.
http://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2014/03/03/jech-2013-203500

There are more that i have seen that i don't remember the names of, and can't google to link to.

Conclusion: I can't prove it, but i got a pretty damn good idea that eating fruits and vegetables leads to better health. You can't prove that eating animal products or processed food are health promoting, but i'm sure you could make a good rational case for it.

I have tried both. Many on this site who claim that animal products are good for human health are basing their opinions on real studies, and very real seeming data. I have been on that side before. It all makes sense, on some level, until you look deeper. I realize i could be wrong, but that's life. If this diet doesn't work out some day in the future, i'll change.

The only question i have for you now that i have sat at my computer way too long, is this:
What harm could possibly be done if you were to try out a whole foods, plant based diet for four weeks?

Yea, it was American Dad, it was a joke. There was a 12 person boy band in the show called "B12" and they did a song.

OK, yeah. I found it on youtube. It was pretty funny.

Here's the thing about studies: there are tons of conflicting ones. I could link you a bunch of studies that show my side, and you could come back with some other study that conflicts it. I've gone on that merry go round on MFP before. I have read tons of info saying that meat, eggs, dairy, oils, etc are good for you. I have read tons of info saying they are bad.

Fair enough.

That's why i turned to epidemiology, my own experimentation and anecdotal info from all the others i know that have tried it. I also take into consideration all the doctors who treat serious medical conditions with a plant based diet, and the patients healed. From Max Gerson, to Caldwell Esselstyn, to Dean Ornish, to Joel Fuhrman, to John McDougall, to Alan Goldhamer, to Michael Klaper, to Matt Lederman, to Neal Barnard.

My own experimentation:
I have tried eating Atkins before, and i lost weight, and gained muscle during that period of time. (Late '05-mid'06) My cycling and running stamina didn't increase too much. After my Atkins trial, i excluded soda and refined carbohydrates other than bread from my diet. I ate that way for years, and only gained a few pounds a year. Then i saw Forks Over Knives, and thought it was vegan propaganda BS! The low carb, Atkins way of things was so ingrained in my head, it was hard to believe. Still, i thought it would be ridiculous not to try it.

So i tried eating a whole foods, plant based diet, and my energy shot through the roof. I felt happier than i had felt in years. I felt like i was 19 years old again!!! And those good feelings just increased as the weeks went by. A rash i had on my hand for 2 years from a AA battery exploding on it, WENT AWAY and never came back! My plantar fasciitis went away. I kept doing research, and kept finding conflicting data. I ate that way for four months total, and then figured a little meat couldn't hurt. Over the next year, i switched it up. I tried eating a mostly whole foods, plant based diet, but occasionally i'd have some brisket, or some pulled pork, or some other meat. There was a while, where i had no meat, but i'd eat some cheese. Basically, vegetarian. I tried excluding all animal products, but i'd include vegetable oils. I tried all sorts of different diets over my life, and the only one that gives me great feelings, cures my ailments, makes me feel younger, clears up my skin, makes me poop solid logs on a regular schedule, and drastically increases my cycling speed and stamina.

Oddly enough, I totally bought into Forks Over Knives when I first saw the movie. I watched it again. And, I made my sister watch it to. She's currently eating a diet very high in whole plants. It's not vegan (she has meat about once a week), but it's pretty close. She and I were both pretty into it. I didn't try it, at that time. I had been vegetarian (which I will explain is very different), for three years in the past and had health issues related to it. I wanted to look into details before I jumped, so I didn't end up getting sick again.

My research into how to do it correctly caused me to run across a bunch of ex-vegan stuff (some which mirrored my experiences--although I was never vegan) and a bunch of conflicting data. Like you say, for every study that says "X" you'll find two more than say "NOT X". I decided to incorporate more vegetables into my diet, but not go all plant based.

To be completely open and honest, my previous experience with vegetarianism is most certainly not evidence that it can't work. I know now, but didn't understand at the time, that the way I ate was not healthy. It didn't include any meat, but it was all garbage. Tons of flour, white rice, beans, potatoes, sugar/honey, fake meat replacements, processed junk, etc. I was hungry all the time, I gained weight, and I just felt horrible. At one point, I was turned away from donating blood due to low iron. I'm a guy! I've never been anemic in my life! How did I get low iron?

Epidemiology: (i'm well aware that correlation does not equal causation. Epidemiology alone is just a piece to the puzzle)
Loma linda study.
http://www.llu.edu/public-health/health/lifestyle_disease.page

The China Study.
Many claim to discredit parts of it, but Dr. Campbell cites well over 700 sources making his various claims about nutrition. Read the book, and think about it for yourself.
( NYTIMES article calling the "China-Cornell-Oxford Project" the "Grand Prix of Epidemiology.) http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/08/science/huge-study-of-diet-indicts-fat-and-meat.html?scp=8&sq="T. Colin Campbell"&st=cse )

The name of the book, "The China Study" is partially misleading, because it touches upon a lot more than just the "China-Cornell-Oxford Study". Dr. Campbell has been a nutritional scientist since my parents were kids.

The Framingham Study:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=framingham+heart+study&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=QLY8U-X3NIWD2gXMtIGABw&ved=0CCkQgQMwAA

This one, not sure of name.
http://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2014/03/03/jech-2013-203500

There are more that i have seen that i don't remember the names of, and can't google to link to.

Interesting to see the Framingham study in there. That one is pretty heavily cited in the low-carb circles as well. Guess it all depends on how you approach the data. I'll look at those. I've seen a lot of conflicting stuff on the China study. I'll have to reread most of them.

Conclusion: I can't prove it, but i got a pretty damn good idea that eating fruits and vegetables leads to better health. You can't prove that eating animal products or processed food are health promoting, but i'm sure you could make a good rational case for it.

I have tried both. Many on this site who claim that animal products are good for human health are basing their opinions on real studies, and very real seeming data. I have been on that side before. It all makes sense, on some level, until you look deeper. I realize i could be wrong, but that's life. If this diet doesn't work out some day in the future, i'll change.

The only question i have for you now that i have sat at my computer way too long, is this:
What harm could possibly be done if you were to try out a whole foods, plant based diet for four weeks?

I'm not opposed to trying it, in the future. I'm not sure I am ready to commit right now. I'm still hesitant due to my previous negative experiences. I'm also currently happy with the results of my current eating (lower cholesterol, lowered BP, lowered resting heart rate, lowered weight, etc.). I also seem to have the opposite of the intended effect from fiber. If I get more then 20-30g of it... things just stop. I am not sure of the cause, but the amount of fiber in a whole food plant based terrifies me. I'd never poop again!

There's a lot to overcome for me to want to try it. If I really believed it would significantly benefit me, I'd feel compelled to try it. At this point, I'm not sure it is better than how I am eating. I don't think the way I eat is right for everyone--most people are shocked that my health has improved and not declined. I do believe that you can be healthy eating the way I do. But, I think the main reasons I believe it is healthy are ones you probably also agree with. I dramatically reduced (cut out complete in my case): processed foods, flour, processed sugar, oils with trans-fats, and refined starches.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm serious. I will look at those studies. And, it is something I am not absolutely opposed to. Right now, I am concerned that it isn't for me and about side effects. The ease with which my body took to a mostly meat diet only makes me more nervous about how it would react to going back to only plants.

Oddly enough, I totally bought into Forks Over Knives when I first saw the movie. I watched it again. And, I made my sister watch it to. She's currently eating a diet very high in whole plants. It's not vegan (she has meat about once a week), but it's pretty close. She and I were both pretty into it. I didn't try it, at that time. I had been vegetarian (which I will explain is very different), for three years in the past and had health issues related to it. I wanted to look into details before I jumped, so I didn't end up getting sick again.

When i was doing my experimentation, i found that a small bit of meat every few weeks didn't really negatively effect my mood or stamina. If it was just health reasons, i might eat it on special occasions, but one day when looking at vegan stuff online, i saw some slaughterhouse footage, and so i don't really want to anymore. I think meat is probably a lot better for you than the processed crap, like hydrogenated oils, and stuff like that. I tried the vegetarian thing, but i think dairy really causes some health issues. It's possible that iron deficiency (which leads to fatigue and generally not feeling well) on vegetarian diets, is related to increased consumption of dairy, eggs, and soy products. ( http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/foods-block-iron-absorption-8503.html )

My research into how to do it correctly caused me to run across a bunch of ex-vegan stuff (some which mirrored my experiences--although I was never vegan) and a bunch of conflicting data. Like you say, for every study that says "X" you'll find two more than say "NOT X". I decided to incorporate more vegetables into my diet, but not go all plant based.

To be completely open and honest, my previous experience with vegetarianism is most certainly not evidence that it can't work. I know now, but didn't understand at the time, that the way I ate was not healthy. It didn't include any meat, but it was all garbage. Tons of flour, white rice, beans, potatoes, sugar/honey, fake meat replacements, processed junk, etc. I was hungry all the time, I gained weight, and I just felt horrible. At one point, I was turned away from donating blood due to low iron. I'm a guy! I've never been anemic in my life! How did I get low iron?

I've come across a lot of the ex-vegan stuff too, and watched it. It seems that a lot of the people who claim that it didn't work properly were still not really eating whole plant foods, but eating the processed stuff. A doctor i like, Alan Goldhamer, says: "Being vegan might get you into heaven, but it wont delay how fast you get there". I think the processed stuff and the dairy is actually worse than the meat. Your idea of including more veggies is a great idea. Each bite of veggie is a bite that you are not taking of something else. I have convinced a lot of people to eat more veggies, and most don't give up meat, but they all get positive effects from the extra veggies.

I'm not opposed to trying it, in the future. I'm not sure I am ready to commit right now. I'm still hesitant due to my previous negative experiences. I'm also currently happy with the results of my current eating (lower cholesterol, lowered BP, lowered resting heart rate, lowered weight, etc.). I also seem to have the opposite of the intended effect from fiber. If I get more then 20-30g of it... things just stop. I am not sure of the cause, but the amount of fiber in a whole food plant based terrifies me. I'd never poop again!

There's a lot to overcome for me to want to try it. If I really believed it would significantly benefit me, I'd feel compelled to try it. At this point, I'm not sure it is better than how I am eating. I don't think the way I eat is right for everyone--most people are shocked that my health has improved and not declined. I do believe that you can be healthy eating the way I do. But, I think the main reasons I believe it is healthy are ones you probably also agree with. I dramatically reduced (cut out complete in my case): processed foods, flour, processed sugar, oils with trans-fats, and refined starches.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm serious. I will look at those studies. And, it is something I am not absolutely opposed to. Right now, I am concerned that it isn't for me and about side effects. The ease with which my body took to a mostly meat diet only makes me more nervous about how it would react to going back to only plants.

My dad said the same thing about the fiber stopping him up! I think he was doing a lot of veggies, and not a lot of fruit, though. It seems like you are doing well. Cutting out the processed crap is major! Good job there! Anyway, thanks for responding with rational discourse. Sorry if my defenses were up at first.