Time for a good ol' fashioned rant!
Options
Replies
-
Or healthier, for that matter. Science has shown time and again that "organic" is just marketing, and there's very little difference from a nutritional standpoint.your "shoulds" are a bit judgmental. Not everyone has your mindset. If this is your interest and passion...hooray! Doesn't make you morally or ethically superior.
Are you freakin' kidding me? Do you know how much pesticides things like apples and tomatoes absorb? That was a truly stupid comment. Try doing some reading on the "dirty dozen," the vegetables that are actually more harmful to humans than helpful, when grown in ways that don't qualify as organic. Not true for all fruits and veggies, but that was one ignorant comment to make...
ETA: read In Defense of Food by Michael Pollen, where he goes into detail about how apples and other fruits from the past, prior to genetic modification, pesticides, non-organic fertilizers, when those fruits and veggies held 3-5 times more nutrients than they do now. You literally have to eat something like four apples to get the nutritional content of an apple grown in the last century or two.
I would just like to ask you if you have ever tried to grow produce as people did a 100 years ago , without pesticides? Most people would not buy it since it's full of bugs, worm holes, mold, lopsided--in other words unappetizing for the majority of people. Especially now since people are used to perfect fruit and vegetables. There are "naturale" ways to combat these problems, but they are time-consuming and costly. Farmers can lose an entire crop to "bugs". So in my opinion, to feed the masses, we need these awful products, or the price of food would skyrocket.
Yes if you are growing hundreds of acres of one crop, it selects for bugs that love that crop. But if you have MANY different plants and animals on the farm, and use crop rotation methods, you don't run into as many problems as you might think. If the farmer is conscious of the way ecology works you really don't need pesticides or fertilizers.0 -
Or healthier, for that matter. Science has shown time and again that "organic" is just marketing, and there's very little difference from a nutritional standpoint.your "shoulds" are a bit judgmental. Not everyone has your mindset. If this is your interest and passion...hooray! Doesn't make you morally or ethically superior.
Are you freakin' kidding me? Do you know how much pesticides things like apples and tomatoes absorb? That was a truly stupid comment. Try doing some reading on the "dirty dozen," the vegetables that are actually more harmful to humans than helpful, when grown in ways that don't qualify as organic. Not true for all fruits and veggies, but that was one ignorant comment to make...
ETA: read In Defense of Food by Michael Pollen, where he goes into detail about how apples and other fruits from the past, prior to genetic modification, pesticides, non-organic fertilizers, when those fruits and veggies held 3-5 times more nutrients than they do now. You literally have to eat something like four apples to get the nutritional content of an apple grown in the last century or two.
I would just like to ask you if you have ever tried to grow produce as people did a 100 years ago , without pesticides? Most people would not buy it since it's full of bugs, worm holes, mold, lopsided--in other words unappetizing for the majority of people. Especially now since people are used to perfect fruit and vegetables. There are "naturale" ways to combat these problems, but they are time-consuming and costly. Farmers can lose an entire crop to "bugs". So in my opinion, to feed the masses, we need these awful products, or the price of food would skyrocket.
I wouldn't pretend to know what's best for the whole world or even the country. Was speaking in defense of the OP and of my own personal choices. I, too, get eye rolls when I talk about this stuff and I get so sick of the flippant responses. We can all agree to disagree on this one, but I have no idea how anyone can say I'd take chemicals over non-chemicals, especially when we're talking about personal choice and a type of produce that, in my experience, is quite readily available. If you can't afford it, I get it. If it's unavailable to you, I get it. But I can't know that some of those things could be harmful to me because of inorganic materials and continue to eat it.
In defense of In Defense of Food, my father, such a ridiculously headstrong, proud and very right wing kinda guy, who never admits when he's wrong, even to his children, read the book and started buying organic. It is full of very compelling, very common sense arguments.
ETA: And, yes, my wife and I do a garden every year. It's nothing fancy. We use organic soil, just from Home Depot. We use organic fertilizer and we even used to make our own compost. None of it was fancy or tricky, very basic. We didn't get enormous yields and I understand it could be because we didn't jack it up with more fertilizer, organic or otherwise. We love to garden and homegrown produce tastes 100 times better than inorganic store bought, especially the tomatoes. Homegrown heirloom and cherry tomatoes are the best. With homegrown basil and a little balsamic reduction, some nice mozz, they make the best caprese I've ever tasted.0 -
It drives me CRAZY that people who want/choose to eat organically and locally or want to know their farmers or choose not to eat processed foods are considered pretentious hippies.
I'm not saying I eat like this all the time or even half the time. I DO NOT tell people they need to eat this way. I do not condemn processed foods as cancer causing garbage, I do not avoid that stuff - because it is part of an enjoyable life.
BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc. And yet I get eye rolls and scoffs and people think its ridiculous. It has nothing to do with weight loss, I know enough to know that a calorie deficit is all you need. I'm just sick of feeling ashamed of wanting to eat "clean" or whatever the hell you want to call it. It doesn't take a genius to know that it is not ideal to be eating some of the garbage you can get these days.
Like I said, I do not eat perfectly, sometimes I eat cookies and crackers and cake and chips - but it doesn't change the fact that someone who chooses not to eat those things is considered pretentious or elitist or something.
okay. thats all, out come the trolls to argue. Its just my educated opinion...
If you don't tell people to eat this way, or talk about it, how do people know that you eat this way? What you do is your business, just as what others do is theirs. It's not always practical or economical for everyone to get fresh local food. I'm sure many would like to. You post does come across as pretentious.
Sorry I should've clarified, it was not a rant because someone thought I was pretentious. It just seems to be a general theme about those "types" of people.0 -
I feel you here... I get the hippie thing all the time. I don't eat 100% local meats and eggs, close.. but not quite. When I don't, I try to at least buy meats from animals that were pastured... although with non-local stuff I suppose I have no real proof other than the company's word. I don't lead on that I think it's better for weight loss or anything like that. For me it's important to know that the animals were treated with as much respect and as humanely as possible. Not to mention--- meat, eggs, and dairy from pastured and local animals always tastes better!
Just to educate you. If you see free-range, it's not necessarily what you think it is. In order to be considered free-range, the animals must have access to the outdoors. For example, on a factory farm raising chickens, they only need to have a door leading out into a dirt lot. So you can have a chicken shed with 30,000 hens with 1 door the size of what you find on your front door, leading out to a lot that doesn't have grass. Very few of these chickens ever see the outside. So knowing your farmers is the best thing you can do to make sure the animals are truly free-range.0 -
BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc.
Why?0 -
It drives me CRAZY that people who want/choose to eat organically and locally or want to know their farmers or choose not to eat processed foods are considered pretentious hippies.
I'm not saying I eat like this all the time or even half the time. I DO NOT tell people they need to eat this way. I do not condemn processed foods as cancer causing garbage, I do not avoid that stuff - because it is part of an enjoyable life.
BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc. And yet I get eye rolls and scoffs and people think its ridiculous. It has nothing to do with weight loss, I know enough to know that a calorie deficit is all you need. I'm just sick of feeling ashamed of wanting to eat "clean" or whatever the hell you want to call it. It doesn't take a genius to know that it is not ideal to be eating some of the garbage you can get these days.
Like I said, I do not eat perfectly, sometimes I eat cookies and crackers and cake and chips - but it doesn't change the fact that someone who chooses not to eat those things is considered pretentious or elitist or something.
okay. thats all, out come the trolls to argue. Its just my educated opinion...
If you don't tell people to eat this way, or talk about it, how do people know that you eat this way? What you do is your business, just as what others do is theirs. It's not always practical or economical for everyone to get fresh local food. I'm sure many would like to. You post does come across as pretentious.
How do people know her opinions? Probably from posting on MFP forums or having discussion in real life. Doesn't mean she tells people how to eat, just expresses her opinion.0 -
Or healthier, for that matter. Science has shown time and again that "organic" is just marketing, and there's very little difference from a nutritional standpoint.your "shoulds" are a bit judgmental. Not everyone has your mindset. If this is your interest and passion...hooray! Doesn't make you morally or ethically superior.
Are you freakin' kidding me? Do you know how much pesticides things like apples and tomatoes absorb? That was a truly stupid comment. Try doing some reading on the "dirty dozen," the vegetables that are actually more harmful to humans than helpful, when grown in ways that don't qualify as organic. Not true for all fruits and veggies, but that was one ignorant comment to make...
ETA: read In Defense of Food by Michael Pollen, where he goes into detail about how apples and other fruits from the past, prior to genetic modification, pesticides, non-organic fertilizers, when those fruits and veggies held 3-5 times more nutrients than they do now. You literally have to eat something like four apples to get the nutritional content of an apple grown in the last century or two.
I would just like to ask you if you have ever tried to grow produce as people did a 100 years ago , without pesticides? Most people would not buy it since it's full of bugs, worm holes, mold, lopsided--in other words unappetizing for the majority of people. Especially now since people are used to perfect fruit and vegetables. There are "naturale" ways to combat these problems, but they are time-consuming and costly. Farmers can lose an entire crop to "bugs". So in my opinion, to feed the masses, we need these awful products, or the price of food would skyrocket.
Yes if you are growing hundreds of acres of one crop, it selects for bugs that love that crop. But if you have MANY different plants and animals on the farm, and use crop rotation methods, you don't run into as many problems as you might think. If the farmer is conscious of the way ecology works you really don't need pesticides or fertilizers.
Honey I grew up on a farm--there are many more problems than YOU might think......0 -
Saying you know what all people should be eating is rather douchey. Well, other than saying all people should eat food. Though that is mean to all the cardboard box eaters out there so I dunno, maybe I'm a pretentious hippie too.
I already mentioned that I don't actually tell people to eat this way. I didn't say people have to eat this way, it doesn't fit everyones life, is not available to everyone and not affordable to everyone, but maybe we would be better off if we did?
You say this... yet you just did it on your OP. The word "should" means that you are telling people what they are to do.
agreed0 -
Or healthier, for that matter. Science has shown time and again that "organic" is just marketing, and there's very little difference from a nutritional standpoint.your "shoulds" are a bit judgmental. Not everyone has your mindset. If this is your interest and passion...hooray! Doesn't make you morally or ethically superior.
Are you freakin' kidding me? Do you know how much pesticides things like apples and tomatoes absorb? That was a truly stupid comment. Try doing some reading on the "dirty dozen," the vegetables that are actually more harmful to humans than helpful, when grown in ways that don't qualify as organic. Not true for all fruits and veggies, but that was one ignorant comment to make...
ETA: read In Defense of Food by Michael Pollen, where he goes into detail about how apples and other fruits from the past, prior to genetic modification, pesticides, non-organic fertilizers, when those fruits and veggies held 3-5 times more nutrients than they do now. You literally have to eat something like four apples to get the nutritional content of an apple grown in the last century or two.
I would just like to ask you if you have ever tried to grow produce as people did a 100 years ago , without pesticides? Most people would not buy it since it's full of bugs, worm holes, mold, lopsided--in other words unappetizing for the majority of people. Especially now since people are used to perfect fruit and vegetables. There are "naturale" ways to combat these problems, but they are time-consuming and costly. Farmers can lose an entire crop to "bugs". So in my opinion, to feed the masses, we need these awful products, or the price of food would skyrocket.
I wouldn't pretend to know what's best for the whole world or even the country. Was speaking in defense of the OP and of my own personal choices. I, too, get eye rolls when I talk about this stuff and I get so sick of the flippant responses. We can all agree to disagree on this one, but I have no idea how anyone can say I'd take chemicals over non-chemicals, especially when we're talking about personal choice and a type of produce that, in my experience, is quite readily available. If you can't afford it, I get it. If it's unavailable to you, I get it. But I can't know that some of those things could be harmful to me because of inorganic materials and continue to eat it.
In defense of In Defense of Food, my father, such a ridiculously headstrong, proud and very right wing kinda guy, who never admits when he's wrong, even to his children, read the book and started buying organic. It is full of very compelling, very common sense arguments.
ETA: And, yes, my wife and I do a garden every year. It's nothing fancy. We use organic soil, just from Home Depot. We use organic fertilizer and we even used to make our own compost. None of it was fancy or tricky, very basic. We didn't get enormous yields and I understand it could be because we didn't jack it up with more fertilizer, organic or otherwise. We love to garden and homegrown produce tastes 100 times better than inorganic store bought, especially the tomatoes. Homegrown heirloom and cherry tomatoes are the best. With homegrown basil and a little balsamic reduction, some nice mozz, they make the best caprese I've ever tasted.
i'd choose chemicals over non-chemicals.
it's cheaper and the food is safer and here's the kicker... it's the SAME!0 -
Last year I planted a wonderful garden, it was fed with my own compost, I babied the seeds under a grow light until ready to plant, and watched daily for all my lovely, organic plants to produce....ahh..the expectations, the mouth watering anticipation......
As I was washing dishes one fine sunny day I looked out my kitchen window and watched my husband dust every blessed tomato, squash, cucumber and strawberries with 7 dust. I just cried.
I buy locally now.................yes, I am still married to the man.0 -
You are being a pretentious hippie. Thank you for assuming to know what I "need" to know and what I "should" be doing.
I eye rolled at your post.0 -
BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc. And yet I get eye rolls and scoffs and people think its ridiculous. It has nothing to do with weight loss, I know enough to know that a calorie deficit is all you need. I'm just sick of feeling ashamed of wanting to eat "clean" or whatever the hell you want to call it. It doesn't take a genius to know that it is not ideal to be eating some of the garbage you can get these days.
This is great, but what about the majority of the population that lives in suburbs and urban areas who are far from farms. They don't have the chance to do what you are lucky enough to have. The whole meat industry needs an overhaul with regulations and oversight.0 -
BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc.
Why?
Go back and read previous posts. Why? Local means you don't transport, you don't use fuel, you don't create fuel emissions, you do support local business / farmers. Typically, if you know the farm it comes from, it means it doesn't come from some gigantic commercial farm that could employe what the OP might consider to be questionable practices. Tons of reasons for local. Not saying I'm the best at doing this myself, but the arguments for are usually being responsible to the earth and to local farmers and to the person who is buying the produce.
Like I said earlier, there are economic reasons why, in some cases, we should import and not go local, but that's not what the OP is saying.
ETA: maybe it would help to make this comparison. When the OP says we should eat locally, etc., it's like when someone says they know they should recycle. Not like, YOU MUST DO THIS, but like, I know it's the right or responsible thing to do (depending on your personal ethics).0 -
Well . . . I think a good ol' fashioned rant needs more swearing, more ALL CAPS, more exclamation points, more demonization of others, and more furious self-righteousness. Yours is lacking here a bit. If you could throw in some ". . . who ARE these douchenozzles . . ." and ". . . HOLY CRAP I cannot take this shizzdoodles anymore!!!" then I'd think you are pushing a better rant.
So that criticism aside . . .It drives me CRAZY that people who want/choose to eat organically and locally or want to know their farmers or choose not to eat processed foods are considered pretentious hippies.
Hippies are cool. Pretensiousness, not so much.BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc.
[nice use of ALL CAPS here, by the way
I don't really want to know my farmers. Farmers can be just as annoying as people in other walks of life. I certainly don't want to know my toothbrush manufacturer, and I use its product inside my mouth to remove the very foodstuffs you're talking about so they don't cause my body damage more than once a day. And now that I think about it, as some of my relatives might be considered "farmers" even though in more of a hobby farmer sense, farmers can kind of bore you to death in certain conversations. No, no . . . I don't necessarily want to know my farmers or restrict my consumption to local items. It's a big world out there and I like to be able to get fresh blueberries out of season because a farmer in Chile is growing them and worked out a reasonable supply chain solution, or relied on others to do so, to get them to me fresh (enough) in California.
But good enough attempt at a rant that I enjoyed reading!0 -
As a true former hippie, please use the word hipster for today's wanna be hippies, they are not the same, we were about peace.0
-
BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc.
Why?
I just wrote a bunch of stuff - read it over and I sounded like a pretentious hipster so I deleted it...
I'll say this though - what is better for the planet is often better for humans too.
*edited to change hippie to hipster* :flowerforyou:0 -
Or healthier, for that matter. Science has shown time and again that "organic" is just marketing, and there's very little difference from a nutritional standpoint.your "shoulds" are a bit judgmental. Not everyone has your mindset. If this is your interest and passion...hooray! Doesn't make you morally or ethically superior.
Are you freakin' kidding me? Do you know how much pesticides things like apples and tomatoes absorb? That was a truly stupid comment. Try doing some reading on the "dirty dozen," the vegetables that are actually more harmful to humans than helpful, when grown in ways that don't qualify as organic. Not true for all fruits and veggies, but that was one ignorant comment to make...
ETA: read In Defense of Food by Michael Pollen, where he goes into detail about how apples and other fruits from the past, prior to genetic modification, pesticides, non-organic fertilizers, when those fruits and veggies held 3-5 times more nutrients than they do now. You literally have to eat something like four apples to get the nutritional content of an apple grown in the last century or two.
I would just like to ask you if you have ever tried to grow produce as people did a 100 years ago , without pesticides? Most people would not buy it since it's full of bugs, worm holes, mold, lopsided--in other words unappetizing for the majority of people. Especially now since people are used to perfect fruit and vegetables. There are "naturale" ways to combat these problems, but they are time-consuming and costly. Farmers can lose an entire crop to "bugs". So in my opinion, to feed the masses, we need these awful products, or the price of food would skyrocket.
I wouldn't pretend to know what's best for the whole world or even the country. Was speaking in defense of the OP and of my own personal choices. I, too, get eye rolls when I talk about this stuff and I get so sick of the flippant responses. We can all agree to disagree on this one, but I have no idea how anyone can say I'd take chemicals over non-chemicals, especially when we're talking about personal choice and a type of produce that, in my experience, is quite readily available. If you can't afford it, I get it. If it's unavailable to you, I get it. But I can't know that some of those things could be harmful to me because of inorganic materials and continue to eat it.
In defense of In Defense of Food, my father, such a ridiculously headstrong, proud and very right wing kinda guy, who never admits when he's wrong, even to his children, read the book and started buying organic. It is full of very compelling, very common sense arguments.
ETA: And, yes, my wife and I do a garden every year. It's nothing fancy. We use organic soil, just from Home Depot. We use organic fertilizer and we even used to make our own compost. None of it was fancy or tricky, very basic. We didn't get enormous yields and I understand it could be because we didn't jack it up with more fertilizer, organic or otherwise. We love to garden and homegrown produce tastes 100 times better than inorganic store bought, especially the tomatoes. Homegrown heirloom and cherry tomatoes are the best. With homegrown basil and a little balsamic reduction, some nice mozz, they make the best caprese I've ever tasted.
I' m not saying you are wrong--the OP's rant said everyone should eat this way. I'm just pointing out that it's not possible. And I guess I care that the rest of the word does get something to eat, even if it's not the best quality.0 -
Edited because apparently I need two tries to quote something.0
-
If that is the tone you take with people that you discuss this with then yes, you are a pretentious hippie. (It's the SHOULDs in all caps that give you away)It drives me CRAZY that people who want/choose to eat organically and locally or want to know their farmers or choose not to eat processed foods are considered pretentious hippies.
I'm not saying I eat like this all the time or even half the time. I DO NOT tell people they need to eat this way. I do not condemn processed foods as cancer causing garbage, I do not avoid that stuff - because it is part of an enjoyable life.
BUT I also know - almost with 100% certainty we SHOULD know our farmers we SHOULD eat locally and seasonally, we should be eating pasture raised eggs etc etc etc. And yet I get eye rolls and scoffs and people think its ridiculous. It has nothing to do with weight loss, I know enough to know that a calorie deficit is all you need. I'm just sick of feeling ashamed of wanting to eat "clean" or whatever the hell you want to call it. It doesn't take a genius to know that it is not ideal to be eating some of the garbage you can get these days.
Like I said, I do not eat perfectly, sometimes I eat cookies and crackers and cake and chips - but it doesn't change the fact that someone who chooses not to eat those things is considered pretentious or elitist or something.
okay. thats all, out come the trolls to argue. Its just my educated opinion...
And I live in Woodstock, NY...I'm pretty much an authority on what pretentious hippies sound like, lol.0 -
I feel you here... I get the hippie thing all the time. I don't eat 100% local meats and eggs, close.. but not quite. When I don't, I try to at least buy meats from animals that were pastured... although with non-local stuff I suppose I have no real proof other than the company's word. I don't lead on that I think it's better for weight loss or anything like that. For me it's important to know that the animals were treated with as much respect and as humanely as possible. Not to mention--- meat, eggs, and dairy from pastured and local animals always tastes better!
Just to educate you. If you see free-range, it's not necessarily what you think it is. In order to be considered free-range, the animals must have access to the outdoors. For example, on a factory farm raising chickens, they only need to have a door leading out into a dirt lot. So you can have a chicken shed with 30,000 hens with 1 door the size of what you find on your front door, leading out to a lot that doesn't have grass. Very few of these chickens ever see the outside. So knowing your farmers is the best thing you can do to make sure the animals are truly free-range.
This is why my beef comes straight from a local, small scale slaughterhouse with cows sourced from local small scale farms. Chickens from the farmers markets, and eggs from locals with small flocks. I hunt and butcher my own venison, catch most of my own fish. As for dairy? Well, I really have no local source of dairy so my choice is supermarket factory farmed or the advertised pastured.
But you know, thanks for the education.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.5K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 392 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 927 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions