Muscle gain.

danielwillis22
danielwillis22 Posts: 43
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
Hi guys, I am a bit confused and would appreciate some clarification.

I was on a low calorie diet over winter ( about 800 per day) and lost a lot of muscle mass. now its coming up to summer and i want to bulk up a hell of a lot. it wasnt until i looked at pictures of myself last summer that i realised how much muscle i had lost.

What is the best training and diet i should be on?

Im currently eating about 1400 calories a day, gym about 5 days a week working shoulders, chest, back/lats, biceps and abs every second day. I do 3/4 days of cardio a week, usually about 5km on the cross trainer for 30 mins.

Im 18, 162 pounds and 6 foot exactly.

Whats the quickest way for me to build muscle and avoid as much fat gain as possible from coming off a low calorie diet?

Any help/ oppinions will be greatly appreciated.
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Replies

  • JenMc14
    JenMc14 Posts: 2,389 Member
    You're not going to build any muscle on 1400 calories a day. Even I as a 5'4, 139 pound female will lose on 1400 a day. The fastest way to gain muscle is to bulk, eat 200-300 calories over your maintenance. Lift heavy, cut back on the cardio or eat more to make up for it. But, that. Comes with fat gain as well. You could look into a recomp, which will have you eating around maintenance and lifting, but that's still more than 1400 calories, and is a longer, sometimes more frustrating process.
  • danielwillis22
    danielwillis22 Posts: 43
    I have done hundreds of research but its the same with anything, theres things saying certain things are good with reasons for it and then people going against it and saying the exact opposite, its all a bit too confusing.

    Ive heard that doing cardio will prevent me building muscle mass if I dont have a enough calories?
  • Harrisonsauntie2005
    Harrisonsauntie2005 Posts: 215 Member
    ... leaves thread
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,069 Member
    There's really no way to avoid a bit of fat gain - but will it be noticeable on you? You look pretty lean.

    You'll need to work out your TDEE then eat at surplus (I've heard 400 or 500 for guys). Get a good mix of macros. You'll either need to drop some of the cardio or make allowances for it,calorie wise. If you gain more fat than you'd like, you can always cut afterwards. You have youth and hormones on your side :)

    I'm jealous btw, just came off my first bulk - you get to eat all the food.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    you aren't gonna gain muscle doing what you are doing either.

    You eat less than me...

    not sure how an 18 yo male who is 6 ft could even survive on 800 calories but eh.
  • JenMc14
    JenMc14 Posts: 2,389 Member
    It's not that cardio will prevent muscle gain, it's that you'll be burning extra calories which could otherwise go to building muscle, so you'd need to eat more.
  • gymkoala
    gymkoala Posts: 76
    I'm coming back from a bulk lasted a year and a half, i think i went to 4000 a day or more, i don't suggest that to you but if you exercise hard don't be afraid of calories, i gained a little fat but when you become a fuel burning machine it's easy to shred it down. 800 it seems like joke if you did that for real you have to slowly amp up your metabolism .

    And if you are new to the game also building muscle at the beginning it's gonna be an easy game
  • bluetuesday5
    bluetuesday5 Posts: 99 Member
    1. You should train your legs. They are the biggest muscles in your body.
    2. Add 250 calories a week until you start gaining weight, then keep eating that amount. Keep tracking so you don't begin to over/under eat and aim for around 1/2lb a week.
    3. Personally I don't think 5 day splits are that great, I would go with something like Stronglifts or maybe 5/3/1.

    BTW, for an idea of how many calories you should be eating, I am around 83kg and 20% bodyfat. I am getting 3500-4000 kcal a day, training 6DAW on upper/lower split, and am barely maintaining weight while my lifts are going up.
  • jonlfischer
    jonlfischer Posts: 171 Member
    you need to eat
    i would shoot for at least 2000 calories a day. roughly 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    You want to up your calories quite a bit. Well into the 2000 cal range eventually depending on what you do for a living.

    If you want to bulk clean quicker, best to cut out your cardio down to a couple days, I would replace the cardio with hill repeats as it is the only cardio that is proven to add muscle if you're eating at a surplus.

    If you want mass, you want to go with the big compound lifts in the 4-5 sets of 8-12 rep range.

    Make sure on your macros to eat enough protein.
  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    You want to up your calories quite a bit. Well into the 2000 cal range eventually depending on what you do for a living.

    If you want to bulk clean quicker, best to cut out your cardio down to a couple days, I would replace the cardio with hill repeats as it is the only cardio that is proven to add muscle if you're eating at a surplus.

    If you want mass, you want to go with the big compound lifts in the 4-5 sets of 8-12 rep range.

    Make sure on your macros to eat enough protein.

    ^^^^^ This

    We're about the same weight and height, you need between 2700 and 2900 Cals to gain muscle, At least 2400 to Maintain,
  • gymkoala
    gymkoala Posts: 76
    and continuous progressive overload !
  • 6ronXtreme9
    6ronXtreme9 Posts: 416 Member
    1.lift weights
    2.eat 200-300 calories above the maintenance level
    3.eat at least 2 gms. of protein / bodyweight in lbs
    4.you're not going to gain muscles in few weeks so train hard.keep pateince and be consistent!
  • danielwillis22
    danielwillis22 Posts: 43
    wow, thanks for all the advice guys, definitely taking it all on board. nothing really contradicts itself which is perfect. the only thing im worried about is that if i eat the 2000 calories a day i will end up putting on more fat than muscle because my body is in starvation mode? I feel like such an idiot for putting myself through 800 calories a day but im just glad im doing the healthy thing now.

    Im currently on soy protein isolate, but im a bit of a noob when it comes to protein shakes. Im only using them to try and bulk up quicker because getting protein on a vegetarian diet can be tricky sometimes, all I eat is fish and quorn. How many times should I be taking the shakes a day?
  • 6ronXtreme9
    6ronXtreme9 Posts: 416 Member
    wow, thanks for all the advice guys, definitely taking it all on board. nothing really contradicts itself which is perfect. the only thing im worried about is that if i eat the 2000 calories a day i will end up putting on more fat than muscle because my body is in starvation mode? I feel like such an idiot for putting myself through 800 calories a day but im just glad im doing the healthy thing now.

    Im currently on soy protein isolate, but im a bit of a noob when it comes to protein shakes. Im only using them to try and bulk up quicker because getting protein on a vegetarian diet can be tricky sometimes, all I eat is fish and quorn. How many times should I be taking the shakes a day?
    just fill your macros
  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    wow, thanks for all the advice guys, definitely taking it all on board. nothing really contradicts itself which is perfect. the only thing im worried about is that if i eat the 2000 calories a day i will end up putting on more fat than muscle because my body is in starvation mode? I feel like such an idiot for putting myself through 800 calories a day but im just glad im doing the healthy thing now.

    Im currently on soy protein isolate, but im a bit of a noob when it comes to protein shakes. Im only using them to try and bulk up quicker because getting protein on a vegetarian diet can be tricky sometimes, all I eat is fish and quorn. How many times should I be taking the shakes a day?

    Actually you can start gaining weight on too high of a deficit if your body hits starvation mode, like if you don't drink enough water your body will retain it.

    And if you can switch to Whey protein isolate you would probably be better off... Soy can affect your testosterone levels. Google it though because It's been a while since I read up on it and could be mistaken. And train legs. Why are you not training legs?
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,069 Member
    If you're happy with fish in your diet, would you consider using whey instead of soy protein? More complete and faster digested, as far as I'm aware.

    Men, in general, can gain 0.5 lb muscle a week so if you shoot for anything between 0.5 and 1 lb a week gain your fat gains should be minimal. Don't forget, you'll need to be progressively loading too.

    ETA: you're going to need more than 2000 cals - I'm a 5'6 female and my maintainence cals are around 2100. Work your way up to a sensible intake so it's not so scary.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    wow, thanks for all the advice guys, definitely taking it all on board. nothing really contradicts itself which is perfect. the only thing im worried about is that if i eat the 2000 calories a day i will end up putting on more fat than muscle because my body is in starvation mode? I feel like such an idiot for putting myself through 800 calories a day but im just glad im doing the healthy thing now.

    Im currently on soy protein isolate, but im a bit of a noob when it comes to protein shakes. Im only using them to try and bulk up quicker because getting protein on a vegetarian diet can be tricky sometimes, all I eat is fish and quorn. How many times should I be taking the shakes a day?

    You're an 18 year old male.

    You're in the prime of your life to be eating all the things and lifting all the things and making insane gains.

    Eat no less than 2000- I was bulking on closer to 3000 by the time I got done with my bulk (remember as you gain- that number goes up)- you probably want to be eating 2000 to start- just to iron your body out- then start adding in 2-300 increments till you hitt a balance around 400-500 on surplus- do that for a couple months and get swole.

    Seriously- you'll put on muscle like you've never seen before if you progressive lift and eat for it.

    Eat. ALL. THE. THINGS.

    LIFT. ALL.THE.THINGS.
  • Galatea_Stone
    Galatea_Stone Posts: 2,037 Member
    I'm a "skinny" female who got up to a whopping 134 pounds from 120 on my bulk, and it took 2600+ calories a day to do it. I did not gain an appreciable amount of fat. I barely gained any noticeable fat and I like the way I look at the top of a bulk, which surprised me. My protein intake hovered between 140 and 170 grams a day.

    Eat, eat and eat some more. Do you eat any dairy or eggs? If so, then go with casein and whey proteins. Get used to downing the shakes. Eat as much plain greek yogurt (with fat) as you can.

    Keep eating the fish. The fattier fishes are great. Get your omega-3s. Tilapia and Basa are way low calorie and hard to bulk on unless you eat a couple pounds of that a day, which is expensive, or you cook them in olive oils and Italian sauces. Eat avocados, oils, coconut oil, drink coconut milk, and work hard to get enough protein. 160-180 grams a day of protein would do you well.
  • danielwillis22
    danielwillis22 Posts: 43
    My legs are still pretty lean and muscly from when i played rugby a year ago and from downhill mountain biking.

    I drink alpro milks, like the coconut milk, almond milk, soy milk. I eat peanut butter a lot. I blend almonds with water to make an almond paste which isnt as good as shop bought almond butter but its a hell of a lot cheaper.

    I appreciate all the help, you guys are awesome. I just feel like i eating 24/7 but its probably just because i was eating so little before and i got used to it, that now it feels like im eating my body weight in food, haha.
  • Ilikelamps
    Ilikelamps Posts: 482 Member
    order a pizza, go to the gym, protein shake, mcdonalds, then nuts before bed...good bye!
  • ChriJMitch
    ChriJMitch Posts: 70 Member
    You have to be like a stick person at 6' and your current weight.........

    I just calculated your Daily Calorie needs and its about 2200 to just MAINTAIN your current weight. At 1800 calories you aren't eating the base level your body needs for normal functions and it is likely messing with your homones, causing you to have low testosterone production (male hormone that helps build muscle mass) and a ton of cortisol buildup (stress hormone that stunts muscle growth to keep the body's BMR low, helping you survive a famine).

    You are basically putting your body in starvation mode and you will have ZERO success building muscle unless you start to eat at a calorie surplus. This ain't rocket science.

    You should be eating, at minimum, 2500 calories a day, and you should make at least 30% of that from protein sources (so essentially 187.5g of protein if you do the math).

    Knowledge is power, hope this helps.
  • Julettashane
    Julettashane Posts: 723 Member
    i have friends that bulk up and they eat A LOT and lift A LOT.....over 3000 calories a day. one friend wakes up in the middle of the night like twice and eats things like a whole pizza. and another friend who is bulking slowly for breakfast the other day he ate a pack of bacon, 2 cans of biscuits and gravy. and the bulk up nicely and one wasnt big to start with
  • danielwillis22
    danielwillis22 Posts: 43
    well even on this calorie deficit, my biceps have almost doubled in size but i guessit wouldnt be difficult to do this considering how much muscle i had lost
  • bluetuesday5
    bluetuesday5 Posts: 99 Member
    My legs are still pretty lean and muscly from when i played rugby a year ago and from downhill mountain biking.

    I drink alpro milks, like the coconut milk, almond milk, soy milk. I eat peanut butter a lot. I blend almonds with water to make an almond paste which isnt as good as shop bought almond butter but its a hell of a lot cheaper.

    I appreciate all the help, you guys are awesome. I just feel like i eating 24/7 but its probably just because i was eating so little before and i got used to it, that now it feels like im eating my body weight in food, haha.

    That is how it feels, I sometimes get sick of eating, whole milk is a good way to make up the calories. I would still advise training legs as your body likes to grow in balance, plus squats and deadlifts are good for the core and back as well as legs.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,069 Member
    well even on this calorie deficit, my biceps have almost doubled in size but i guessit wouldnt be difficult to do this considering how much muscle i had lost

    That'll be a combination of muscle memory and gains due to you having a break from/being new to lifting, that's not going to continue. Listen to the people - you're going to have to eat.
  • danielwillis22
    danielwillis22 Posts: 43
    ohh ive eaten a lot today, i know it sounds like a bad habit but to get my calories up about 2000 for the day ive had about 4 meals and gone into the cupboard and had scoops of peanut butter and ive had 2 protein shakes.

    Im just worried im eating too much too fast? is that possible? or is it fine aslong as im eating the right kind of stuff?
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    ohh ive eaten a lot today, i know it sounds like a bad habit but to get my calories up about 2000 for the day ive had about 4 meals and gone into the cupboard and had scoops of peanut butter and ive had 2 protein shakes.

    Im just worried im eating too much too fast? is that possible? or is it fine aslong as im eating the right kind of stuff?
    You do want to get you calories up but how fast you do it during the day is an individual thing. Some people get their cals in 2-3 meals while others 4 or more. If you are feeling bloated then you may want to eat smaller more frequent meals. I personally like the 4 or meal approach more than the the 2-3.
  • MSLUC
    MSLUC Posts: 30
    Protein smoothies within 30minutes of completion of workout. My favorite; banana, strawberries, unsweetened chocolate powder, half cup of egg white, and 12oz of 2 percent milk. Blend and enjoy. Massive protein calorie boost... approx. 450.
  • skinnyinnotime
    skinnyinnotime Posts: 4,078 Member
    OMG I can't believe an 18 year old 6 ft guy has tortured himself on 800 cals a day, and now a measely 1400???? :noway:

    Please start to EAT at least at maintenance. You cannot build anything on what you're currently taking in.

    A guy of your age should have no problem building muscle, you are in your prime. So stop starving yourself, eat, lift, sleep, repeat.

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