Organic food ind engaged in a public disinformation campaign

My bad, I totally forgot that I was interacting with men. The idiocy is starting to make more sense.

<~~~~ Woman

In perspective, a vegetable picked then transported 1,500 miles is not going to be as nutritious as one picked from your backyard garden within minutes of serving.

speculation, and how does this help people who live in apartments in cities? And also couldn't there be situations when local soils were terrible and the soil 1500 miles or whatever away was more fertile, and thus more suitable for growing whatever was being hauled and thus more nutritious?

Maybe a bit of coal, but so what?

Oil is not used in the production of fertilizer. The macronutrients required by plants are N (Nitrogen), K (Potassium) and P (Phosphorus). Oil is hydrocarbon, made from H (Hydrogen) and C (Carbon). There are no plant nutrients in oil.

Nitrogen fertilizer (N) is made from ammonia, which in turn is manufactured from natural gas, not oil. Natural gas is not peaking, but when it does, fertilizer can be produced from coal, as is done in China

You lifted this from a conspiracy theory blog written in 2005

By the way, methane is also hydrogen and carbon - CH4 it's all the same kind of stuff - hydrocarbon.

But apologies - nitrogen fertiliser (generally hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen) fertiliser is made using fossil fuel energy sources. In some cases this is natural gas, in some this is coal, but basically hydrocarbon based. Better?
There is also massive use of hydrocarbons in the manufacture, mining, transportation and so on of other agrochemicals.

And btw natural gas has already peaked. We've pretty much run out over here hence all the fracking. And why everyone's so scared of Russia but that's another story.

P.S. Don't believe that guy when he says the other mined elements are in plentiful supply; they're not.

Personally I prefer the free-range, pesticide free, antibiotic-free salt that gets to frolic through the meadows and sunshine all day before being humanely slaughtered. Nothing less will do.

I have no idea why a person would want to buy foods that are higher in pesticides and herbicides - products whose purpose is to kill, and petroleum-based fertilizers - known carcinogens. I don't understand why one would want to eat something that may have been grown in human waste that contains the residue of our pharmaceutical drugs and hormones. Nor do I understand why a person would willingly volunteer to be part of the GMO experiment that is happening right now, on everyone who consumes them. I also don't get why someone would want to be exposed to bacteria that are more resistant to antibiotics.

Why would anyone would want to support big-business agriculture that is responsible for putting small farmers out of business, not using land in sustainable ways, empties water tables that took thousands of years to fill, and spends millions if not billions of dollars on marketing campaigns to lobby for their own interests that have nothing to do with our health and everything to do with their profits.

I also don't understand why anyone would publicly admit that they are gullible enough to fall for their marketing ploys.

Buying locally has many benefits when it comes to using fewer resources to transport goods, but it also has health benefits. There are toxic chemical compounds in many fruits and vegetables that dissipate as they ripen, the plants way of stopping it's fruit from being eaten before the seeds are viable. The further a food travels from its point of sale, the earlier it is picked and the more of these toxins that remain in our foods. Also, the closer it is picked to the time that it is fully ripe, the more opportunity the plant has had to impart nutrients into that same food.

Of course it wouldn't make sense to grow foods in inappropriate environments just to be considered local. But it is equally ridiculous to demand that foods be available year round, when they are out of season unless they are being shipped from the other side of the planet. Eating locally also means eating seasonally and reducing variety to some extent.

Finally, some organic fertilizers contain sewage sludge, leftover from wastewater treatment plants. Sewage sludge comes with all the pharmaceuticals, antibacterials, industrial synthetic chemicals, heavy metals and other chemicals that wastewater treatment plants aren't able to remove. Though the EPA has endorsed sewage sludge, or biosolids, as fertilizers for years, a February 2008 Environmental Science and Technology study revealed that earthworms living in soil treated with sludge were absorbing the pharmaceuticals and personal care product ingredients that treatment plants leave behind. While the study wasn't conclusive, their presence in earthworms led scientists to suspect chemicals were building up in the crops growing in the soil.

I have no idea why a person would want to buy foods that are higher in pesticides and herbicides - products whose purpose is to kill, and petroleum-based fertilizers - known carcinogens. I don't understand why one would want to eat something that may have been grown in human waste that contains the residue of our pharmaceutical drugs and hormones. Nor do I understand why a person would willingly volunteer to be part of the GMO experiment that is happening right now, on everyone who consumes them. I also don't get why someone would want to be exposed to bacteria that are more resistant to antibiotics.

Why would anyone would want to support big-business agriculture that is responsible for putting small farmers out of business, not using land in sustainable ways, empties water tables that took thousands of years to fill, and spends millions if not billions of dollars on marketing campaigns to lobby for their own interests that have nothing to do with our health and everything to do with their profits.

I also don't understand why anyone would publicly admit that they are gullible enough to fall for their marketing ploys.

Buying locally has many benefits when it comes to using fewer resources to transport goods, but it also has health benefits. There are toxic chemical compounds in many fruits and vegetables that dissipate as they ripen, the plants way of stopping it's fruit from being eaten before the seeds are viable. The further a food travels from its point of sale, the earlier it is picked and the more of these toxins that remain in our foods. Also, the closer it is picked to the time that it is fully ripe, the more opportunity the plant has had to impart nutrients into that same food.

Of course it wouldn't make sense to grow foods in inappropriate environments just to be considered local. But it is equally ridiculous to demand that foods be available year round, when they are out of season unless they are being shipped from the other side of the planet. Eating locally also means eating seasonally and reducing variety to some extent.

The bolded bit. That's organic fertilizer.

Finally, some organic fertilizers contain sewage sludge, leftover from wastewater treatment plants. Sewage sludge comes with all the pharmaceuticals, antibacterials, industrial synthetic chemicals, heavy metals and other chemicals that wastewater treatment plants aren't able to remove. Though the EPA has endorsed sewage sludge, or biosolids, as fertilizers for years, a February 2008 Environmental Science and Technology study revealed that earthworms living in soil treated with sludge were absorbing the pharmaceuticals and personal care product ingredients that treatment plants leave behind. While the study wasn't conclusive, their presence in earthworms led scientists to suspect chemicals were building up in the crops growing in the soil.

http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/green-guide/buying-guides/fertilizer/environmental-impact/?rptregcta=reg_free_np&rptregcampaign=20131016_rw_membership_r1p_us_se_w#

To me "Organic" is nothing but a brand name.

My aunt & uncle run a large CSA (community sponsored agriculture) farm here in Iowa. They grow ACRES of fruits, vegetables, chickens, etc - dozens of different varieties. They are extremely environmentally minded - make all their own compost, recycle EVERYTHING, etc. I mean if there was ever an organic farm, they would be it.

When they first started up they looked up what it would take to be able to be "certified organic". The amount of fees they'd have to pay for annual licensing, and the hoops they'd have to jump through were immense - most of which had very little if anything to do with truly being "organic". So they just decided to educate their clients about their methods & practices and let that speak for itself.

Now...15 or so years later, they've put 2 kids through college, and my uncle has "retired" from his 6 figure engineering job before age 55. So I don't think the lack of a label has hurt them.

My point - I prefer to support local producers and/or grow my own. I don't care whether or not they have the "organic" label, but I do inquire about their practices.

sounds labor intenstive...we talking productivity due to pounds of food produced per acre, or food produced per $ spent?

Tonnes per acre. Cost would depend on where in the world you are i.e. how cheap labour is.

Yes it's labour intensive but sustainable. You can farm by hand a few acres and make enough to live off, or you can farm by machinery several thousand acres and scrape by. I'm in the UK, I don't know if the farming practices in the US are the same as over here.

Tonnes per acre. Cost would depend on where in the world you are i.e. how cheap labour is.

Yes it's labour intensive but sustainable. You can farm by hand a few acres and make enough to live off, or you can farm by machinery several thousand acres and scrape by.

Tonnes per acre. Cost would depend on where in the world you are i.e. how cheap labour is.

Yes it's labour intensive but sustainable. You can farm by hand a few acres and make enough to live off, or you can farm by machinery several thousand acres and scrape by.

I don't see Oliver Walston "scraping by".

The yield of most crops in organic systems is lower than that of conventional crops, which is partly why there is a price premium on organic. We aren't making any more land so less produced per area means higher cost.