Getting this off my chest...

I'm not even talking about physical fitness--though you're right, it's all on a case-by-case basis. I'm talking about BP, Cholesterol, heart rate, all that jazz. If all that is in acceptable ranges, how do you not qualify as healthy?

These things do not give a full account of healthy. Think about all the extra pounds of pressure you're putting on your joints? I read somewhere (sorry, can't provide the citation and am too lazy to try to go find it again) that for every pound of body weight you have, you're putting 4 lbs of pressure on your knees. So, if you're carrying around an extra 50 lbs, that's equivalent to an extra 200 lbs of pressure on those knee joints. That is not healthy, even though it wouldn't affect your blood pressure (until your knees hurt so badly that you can't walk around and therefore get no exercise, which is bad for your blood pressure - not to mention your mental health).

In addition, can you get down on your hands and knees to play with kids? Is it comfortable? Can you do it for more than 10-15 minutes at a time? Can you spend an entire day at Disneyland, walking around, without being physically beat up? (sure, pretty much anyone would be physically fatigued after such a day, but some folks more than others...)

I simply cannot imagine that being obese does not, in some way/shape/form effect your quality of life even if it doesn't show up in a blood test.


ETA: I'm not really talking about YOU specifically - but folks, in general, who fall into the obese category.

Well said on the additional points :-)

See, the thing is when you say things like " all that jazz"-- i dont know if its because you dont believe in that jazz, or u dont knwo what it is? You have kinda opened up a discussion that is ALMOST all black and white . Bottom line- if u are obese, chances that your triglycerides are SUPER HIGH, are actually super high . Increased LDL and triglycerides = increased risk of heart disease, period. If you have increased TG, you most likley have metabolic syndrome ( which is the rest of "all that jazz" that you are mentioning).
If you are obese, you most likely have
-abdominal fat ( notice, i said 'most likely')-- increased abdominal fat ( abdomen is where are of your important organs are located : pancreas , liver, stomach, kidneys -- kinda, they are in the back)--leads to organs not functioning properly.
- increased body weight- puts pressure on your bones leading to early osteoarthritis
- increased fat : poor glucose metabolism due to insulin resistance -- high chances of type 2 diabetes
-do i need to state the obvious ones too ? affects ur heart ( heart attack, artery disease), increased risk of some cancers ( breast most notably), can cause u to have reflux problems ( acidity), high blood pressure..
- if you are obese and SEDENTARY : CLOTS IN UR legs, lungs.

It is black and white. The grey area are simply outliers , OR these people are maybe 'technically' obese on the BMI scale, but they are healthy, workout and are just "big boned".-- mind you, these are outliers. Maybe you are seeing so much of this on tv because we are seeing so much of it in society now and more people need to get the message. "too much weight, and u will die"- it may not be today, or in 10 years, or u may live a normal life span-- but be open to being REALLY SICK when it finally hits and hating your life. (i dont mean u personally, but u get the point)

I think what happens to many people is they confuse the word "risk" with the word "will."
Yes, people who smoke have a higher risk of developing lung cancer
Yes, people who are overweight/obese have a higher risk of developing heart disease and diabetes.
They forget that genetics also plays a part in our health over the long term, as well as our diet/activities

Case in point: My mother never smoked a day in her life. Neither did her parents. She didn't care to be around smokers as well, it played havoc with her allergies so she would remove herself. She passed with lung cancer.

My Dad had a physically demanding job, wasn't overweight, didn't drink, didn't smoke, and ate healthy all his life. His diet comprised of mostly veg and fruit, chicken, fish, very little red meat an very few sweets. He wasn't a fan of fast food, always said it didn't taste right, so he rarely ate it. Heart disease killed him at age 60.

After looking into my family history I learned that there is evidence of heart disease and various cancers stretching back several generations. So what does that tell me? It says that my genetics could play a significant factor in my long term health. It says that I have a higher risk for those diseases. What can I do about it? I certainly cant change my genetics, its there and it is what it is. I can however... reduce my RISK. I can eat healthier, exercise, I avoided taking hormone replacement during menopause (breast and uterine cancer are a risk for me) I want to do everything I can to insure that I die as a old old woman

^ This.

I am glad you were able to get that off your chest. And I hope you feel better. No, I am not being condescending or patronizing. Serious, I am glad you got to vent. You are also right, we can't predict the future. While I could be on my way to a heart attack, I could get flattened by a car or a bus before I get there. Happened to a friend of mine. However, on the side of risk mitigation, the odds of bad stuff happening are greater the more risk factors you have. I am glad to see that you are making the effort to reduce your risk factors.

I was overweight and fat. It was well distributed throughout my body and I carried it well, so no one thought I was fat. However, I knew. I was the heaviest I had ever been. Running became a struggle. Not a good thing when you are in the Army. Push ups, sit ups, pull ups, yep, I felt every extra pound with every repetition. With sit ups, there was the belly bubble that kept getting in the way, right in the middle. I knew I had to make a change. And I did. That was 40 pounds ago. Amazing how everyone tells me how much better I look now. Now, instead of a belly bubble, there is a six pack without enough insulation to keep it cold. I may die today or tomorrow. But I will die feeling better, healthier and happier. Yes, it is worth it to me. I hope your journey is worth it to you.

And now that we have shared and gotten it off our chests. Group hug! Cool, now that is done, let's stop talking and get out there and DO something about it. :-) Have a great and blessed day.

I'm in the healthcare field (overweight, so it's hard to practice what you preach), but a lot of times the message also includes this:

Like you said, there are plenty of people who suddenly and tragically die from, for example, heart conditions who seem perfectly healhty (ie: runners), and unfortunately, a lot of times this is due to OTHER risk factors such as environment and genetics. And yes, you are right, being physically fit is not a free pass from getting cancers, cardiac issues, kidney problems, etc. But along with the "higher risk", which is statistically true (unfortunately), being overweight or obese also to a certain extent increases what we call 'morbidity', or in other words, being 'sicker'. The best example I can give of this is with Type 2 diabetes. We all know that being overweight increases your chances of being type 2 diabetic, but the difference sometimes between people who try to stay physically fit and those who tend to stay more overweight is often the kinds of complications that pop up, and how long they last for. In this case, a person who eats right and takes better care of themselves and adheres to medication if they have any will likely spend less time 'sick' as someone who doesn't - meaning that their circulation, blood sugar numbers, and overall symptoms will be lessened. Now, take that same person who is now overweight - they can take all the same steps and wind up in just as good health as the first person, but it will be a longer journey to get there, and in the meantime, you're adding all the 'risks' of being overweight to the 'risks' of unchecked diabetes, so that journey could have more bumps in the road. There are very healthy overweight and obese people in the world, but when you add other factors (many that we have NO control over), the risks start to add up, and the total sickness and sometimes severity is greater.

Does that make any sense?

I don't see many obese 90 year olds walking around.
I also don't see many pack-a-day-smoking 90 year olds walking around.

That's not a judgement, and it doesn't de-value anyone as a person. It's not a guarantee that everyone who smokes or is obese will definitely die of smoking or obesity related issues. But there certainly are risk factors associated with both lifestyles, and it's important that people are aware of them. If someone has all the info and makes a conscious decision to continue smoking, or if someone prefers to be overweight (some people do), that's fine with me.

My grandma is 91 and lives in an assisted living community with other people who are still very mobile and pretty self-sufficient. She is not obese and has never smoked. Most of the people in her building are also in their 80's and 90's. None of them are obese, and none of them smoke. I'm sure good genes contribute a great deal toward living that long, but I think certain lifestyle choices play a pretty big role as well.

Honestly, I didn't decide to lose weight because of the health problems associated with obesity. I just wanted to lose weight because I didn't feel like myself and my body was uncomfortable basically all the time. But there are so many things to die of as it is, so I don't really mind taking a few variables off the table.

What?

^This. That all or nothing attitude you hear coming from people regarding bodyfat and disease is there for a reason.

Most of us are members of the MFP community for health, fitness, and accountability, so in some way we can generally agree that getting nutrition and physical activities in order is a good thing overall. With that said, even science (as a discipline) is not without its biases and cultural worldview (although some would make you believe otherwise). Although I do believe the research that obesity *does* come with increased health risks (as mentioned in this thread), I also see what the original poster is saying. Even if it's not scientists, I have personally witnessed people speak in terms of absolutes that you *will* die if you are overweight (as if the rest of the population is somehow immortal, lol). Yes, the folks who engage in behavior that risks their health while managing to live a long time are outliers/an anomaly, we cannot look at someone's body and know exactly how much time they have left on earth.

Statistics do not have a cultural worldview.

Statistics indicate that people who are obese and who smoke do not live as long as those who are a healthy weight and don't smoke. Why is this even a conversation?

Most of us are members of the MFP community for health, fitness, and accountability, so in some way we can generally agree that getting nutrition and physical activities in order is a good thing overall. With that said, even science (as a discipline) is not without its biases and cultural worldview (although some would make you believe otherwise). Although I do believe the research that obesity *does* come with increased health risks (as mentioned in this thread), I also see what the original poster is saying. Even if it's not scientists, I have personally witnessed people speak in terms of absolutes that you *will* die if you are overweight (as if the rest of the population is somehow immortal, lol). Yes, the folks who engage in behavior that risks their health while managing to live a long time are outliers/an anomaly, we cannot look at someone's body and know exactly how much time they have left on earth.

Statistics do not have a cultural worldview.

Statistics indicate that people who are obese and who smoke do not live as long as those who are a healthy weight and don't smoke. Why is this even a conversation?

I hear what you're saying, but as a social scientist, I also know that research is not always completely objective. That's just a side note. But back to the issue at hand...

At the end of the day, I am saying I understand what the original poster is pointing out: just the simple fact that the data can be used as a predictor, but is not the fate of everyone in the population. It's not always an either/or, but sometimes an and/both (it's possible to accept the data and also be cognizant of the truth that there are exceptions). I'm not debating or ignoring the health risks of obesity, and I personally don't want to find out firsthand the ways it can be detrimental to one's health. I think the original poster was just saying that she's tired of hearing people pronounce the death of others just because they fall into a certain category (which in this case, happens to be obesity). I am here on MFP because I want to take accountability for my health and take better care of myself, not out of shame and fear.

Edited to include quote...

I frankly don't care what the media says, I'm working to lose weight and gain muscle mass so I can look and feel better, not because I'm classified as a gross or stupid human being. You can die at any time in your life, being fat or skinny doesn't matter if you're hit by a bus or struck my lightning. However by staying Obese studies have shown that you will be susceptible to certain diseases and health complications.

I might not know when I'm going to die, but I can improve my quality of life in the mean time, that's what this is about for me. Losing weight and keeping it off can only help, not really sure how it could make things worse.