FRUCTOSE CONVERTS TO FAT

Jesus. These comments.

The OP was talking about FRUCTOSE. Not generally about sugar.

Fructose is a specific substance, not a synonym for the generality that is sugar. Sugar can be perfectly fine, while fructose can be bad.

You see, people? You can eat sugar without eating fructose. You don't have to instantly go on about "SUGAR" when the OP SPECIFICALLY mentions......*FRUCTOSE*....which is a very specific type of sugar. Not sugar generally.

This topic is about a specific substance: Fructose. Not the entire gigantic spectrum of substances known as sugars.

None of this is about negating calories or the monitoring of them. The problem with fructose is the damage it does to the body, not that it has more or less calories in it.

Fructose does damage to the body? Guess I should stop eating all that fruit then

No, fruit is good for you. Keep eating it, as its a rather insignificant source of fructose, in terms of the average diet.

Do some research specifically on the metabolic pathways through which glucose is processed in the body, the resulting compounds of these processes, and the effects those compounds have elsewhere.

Don't choose ignorance.

Experts still have a long way to go to connect the dots between fructose and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Higher intakes of fructose are associated with these conditions, but clinical trials have yet to show that it causes them.

The above is from the same article where the OP got her information.

If it makes you feel any better, there still hasn't been a strong causal relationship proven between dietary cholesterol and atherosclerosis, either. Note that I said causal, not correlative.

The real problem with fructose metabolism in my view is the release into the body of high amounts of this stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_glycation_end-product

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't eat fructose. I cheerfully eat it every day, as the benefits of the fruits and veg far outweigh the small amount of fructose you take in. I have taken to substituting sweeteners such as stevia and dextrose (100% glucose) for sucrose and anything that might contain HFCS, which are 50 and 55% fructose by volume respectively.

Again...I'm not saying don't eat fructose, since of course its found naturally in small amounts in an entire spectrum of healthy foods. I'm not saying don't eat sugar. I'm saying eat a lot less of it, and where practical avoid eating sucrose and HFCS generally. There is no health benefit to it. Its simply bad for you.

on a side note, these threads inevitably always turn into an argument about sugar addiction ...

if you carry around sugar packets in your pocket so that you can constantly get your "sugar high" then you might have an argument, but I fail to see anyone ever admit to doing that....

or, if you just sit in your house and eat bowls of raw sugar you may have an argument as well, but I have personally never heard of anyone doing this..

your views on addiction are twisted my friend. it is a looser definition than you think

I agree that addiction can be looser, but can we get a clearer definition on being "addicted" to sugar. There are people who say that they are helpless against their urges towards sugar and comparasions made to cocaine which is why I think you get these type of analogies thrown out there.

from websters;
-compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

if you can apply this to it, then its addiction. i think its fair to say that some people go into withdrawal without sugar(getting cranky, less energy, some even get headaches) as well as people eating copious amounts despite knowing that its not healthy

I used to work with people 'kicking'...and you can actually die while withdrawing from alcohol and heroin without medication...i have yet to hear of the same from withdrawing from sugar

Whatever your opinions, I didn't start loosing weight until I started limiting sucrose and increasing green veggies and lean protein. I want to loose weight, not remain overweight. Eating lots of sugar/carb foods made me gain weight over a few years...when I changed my macros the weight fell off!

So basically you got to a point you were eating at a calorie defict. Great job!!

This content has been removed.

Whatever your opinions, I didn't start loosing weight until I started limiting sucrose and increasing green veggies and lean protein. I want to loose weight, not remain overweight. Eating lots of sugar/carb foods made me gain weight over a few years...when I changed my macros the weight fell off!

So basically you got to a point you were eating at a calorie defict. Great job!!

EXACTLY Pikaknight! Dammit I wanna say Pikachu! lol But yeah you're so on point! Calories in/out is how she lost it.

No, fruit is good for you. Keep eating it, as its a rather insignificant source of fructose, in terms of the average diet.

If fructose is bad for you at certain levels then eating too much fruit would be bad for you. As for how much fructose fruit has versus other things I would hardly call it insignificant. An apple has about as many grams of fructose as a serving of Fruit Loops cereal and a handful of raisins would blow the Fruit Loops out of the water in terms of amount of fructose.

If you think eating things like Fruit Loops cereal is bad because of fructose content but say eating fruit is good for you...how do you justify that?

Can you state a number of grams of fructose per kg of bodyweight (doseage) that would be harmful to your liver so I can know how much fruit it would be dangerous for me to eat?

on a side note, these threads inevitably always turn into an argument about sugar addiction ...

if you carry around sugar packets in your pocket so that you can constantly get your "sugar high" then you might have an argument, but I fail to see anyone ever admit to doing that....

or, if you just sit in your house and eat bowls of raw sugar you may have an argument as well, but I have personally never heard of anyone doing this..

your views on addiction are twisted my friend. it is a looser definition than you think

Sugar is not physically addicting. There is absolutely zero evidence that it is. Your arguments please?

what would be your arguments against.
ive already spent too much time on this one, look at my other posts

I've already refuted them. I was hoping you had better ones.

you "refuting" them was you just saying it was wrong with no backing.
the article that you posted (The association of food characteristics and individual differences with ratings of craving and liking) doesnt mention addiction once. it has to do with people liking the food, not addiction.

obviously we arent on the same page with this, so im just going to leave one more study stating that food addiction in general is plausible and leave, because clearly we are never going to agree on this one
http://nutrition.highwire.org/content/139/3/617.short

on a side note, these threads inevitably always turn into an argument about sugar addiction ...

if you carry around sugar packets in your pocket so that you can constantly get your "sugar high" then you might have an argument, but I fail to see anyone ever admit to doing that....

or, if you just sit in your house and eat bowls of raw sugar you may have an argument as well, but I have personally never heard of anyone doing this..

your views on addiction are twisted my friend. it is a looser definition than you think

I agree that addiction can be looser, but can we get a clearer definition on being "addicted" to sugar. There are people who say that they are helpless against their urges towards sugar and comparasions made to cocaine which is why I think you get these type of analogies thrown out there.

from websters;
-compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

if you can apply this to it, then its addiction. i think its fair to say that some people go into withdrawal without sugar(getting cranky, less energy, some even get headaches) as well as people eating copious amounts despite knowing that its not healthy

I used to work with people 'kicking'...and you can actually die while withdrawing from alcohol and heroin without medication...i have yet to hear of the same from withdrawing from sugar

again, those are extreme addictions. apples and oranges.
you can be addicted to something and not die because you stopped taking it.

And again, people compare sugar to those same type of drug addiction levels.

How come Joanne has not come back to join in the discussion?

@ MrM27

No that's a misconception. You can in fact be obese and not be addicted to sugar. You can also have one of these bodies that can't be anything other than skinny AND be addicted to sugar. The two things often go together but are not mutually dependent. I was suggesting your sugar cravings probably weren't as bad as mine. Because if they where you would simply probably change your mind. Sure dismiss it if you like but that's all I will say. I believe in what I say about foods like this wholeheartedly.

However I am NOT an advocate of totally "clean" eating, as if there is such a thing as dirty food anyway lol. Nor am I demonizing sugar. I am simply suggesting that just because an engine is designed to handle moderate amounts of something effectively doesn't mean that flooding the engine with it is a good idea. I mean if THAT where true there would be no need to calorie count. Our body would just smartly take what it needed from our food and nor more. And we would be able to eat for enjoyment as long as we met minimum quotas.

Since that is not the case I advocate moderation. And also because I was surprised as well. For years i guffawed at sugar addiction. I just kept saying .. i like it because it tastes good. But I truly made a mistake I regret and that was difficult to put right. Admittedly I had to jump preeeety far off the sane path to do it. But no force of debate on earth will convince me I was not addicted to sugar. You really might as well try to convince me that the sky is blue. I know this is an appeal to emotion but frankly for relating ones human experience I can't think of a much better way to do it. I'm not really looking for sympathy either. I ate all that damn sugar. But I do get annoyed when people outright dismiss things that lie outside their knowledge. Just because you have never been heavily dependent on sugar doesn't mean it isn't possible.

I understand that you want to stop people from being too obsessed with healthy eating. That's a real problem too. I wouldn't even DARE poo poo it. But to me this is something as real as a kick in the teeth and I would be grateful if you didn't deny that. However if you remain unconvinced we will simply have to agree to disagree.

on a side note, these threads inevitably always turn into an argument about sugar addiction ...

if you carry around sugar packets in your pocket so that you can constantly get your "sugar high" then you might have an argument, but I fail to see anyone ever admit to doing that....

or, if you just sit in your house and eat bowls of raw sugar you may have an argument as well, but I have personally never heard of anyone doing this..

your views on addiction are twisted my friend. it is a looser definition than you think

Sugar is not physically addicting. There is absolutely zero evidence that it is. Your arguments please?

what would be your arguments against.
ive already spent too much time on this one, look at my other posts

I've already refuted them. I was hoping you had better ones.

you "refuting" them was you just saying it was wrong with no backing.
the article that you posted (The association of food characteristics and individual differences with ratings of craving and liking) doesnt mention addiction once. it has to do with people liking the food, not addiction.

obviously we arent on the same page with this, so im just going to leave one more study stating that food addiction in general is plausible and leave, because clearly we are never going to agree on this one
http://nutrition.highwire.org/content/139/3/617.short

You can't prove it so your gonna flounce? OK.

@ MrM27

No that's a misconception. You can in fact be obese and not be addicted to sugar. You can also have one of these bodies that can't be anything other than skinny AND be addicted to sugar. The two things often go together but are not mutually dependent. I was suggesting your sugar cravings probably weren't as bad as mine. Because if they where you would simply probably change your mind. Sure dismiss it if you like but that's all I will say. I believe in what I say about foods like this wholeheartedly.

However I am NOT an advocate of totally "clean" eating, as if there is such a thing as dirty food anyway lol. Nor am I demonizing sugar. I am simply suggesting that just because an engine is designed to handle moderate amounts of something effectively doesn't mean that flooding the engine with it is a good idea. I mean if THAT where true there would be no need to calorie count. Our body would just smartly take what it needed from our food and nor more. And we would be able to eat for enjoyment as long as we met minimum quotas.

Since that is not the case I advocate moderation. And also because I was surprised as well. For years i guffawed at sugar addiction. I just kept saying .. i like it because it tastes good. But I truly made a mistake I regret and that was difficult to put right. Admittedly I had to jump preeeety far off the sane path to do it. But no force of debate on earth will convince me I was not addicted to sugar. You really might as well try to convince me that the sky is blue. I know this is an appeal to emotion but frankly for relating ones human experience I can't think of a much better way to do it. I'm not really looking for sympathy either. I ate all that damn sugar. But I do get annoyed when people outright dismiss things that lie outside their knowledge. Just because you have never been heavily dependent on sugar doesn't mean it isn't possible.

I understand that you want to stop people from being too obsessed with healthy eating. That's a real problem too. I wouldn't even DARE poo poo it. But to me this is something as real as a kick in the teeth and I would be grateful if you didn't deny that. However if you remain unconvinced we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Don't assume you know what my eating habits were like or that I didn't go out to the store at 2am while up watching TV because I wanted some sour patch kids or other candies. Don't make assumptions as to what my frame of mind was at that time. Do I blame the candy for making me fat? No. I chose to go buy it, it didn't jump into my mouth. At the end of the day my desire to feel better about myself and get fit was greater than my desire to stuff my face all day with whatever I wanted.

Bodies that can't be anything but skinny don't exist. Anyone can get fat. Fact.

I understand addiction. As I was once an addict, but not to sugar. I understand you'd be grateful if i didn't deny sugar addiction but unfortunately I have to deny it. Sorry. Not so sorry. I'm going sit here and try to convince you on anything. You do what you need to get you through the day. I never said I want people to be obsessed with healthy eating. I could care less if the guy next to me is eating a salad or a bowl of broccoli for lunch just don't look at me and criticize me because I went and got pizza or tacos (with yellow rice and white flour tortillas).

I'm hoping one day someone will come along and say "Man, I sure was addicted to that sugar in bananas or onions or mangos. But alas the only ones that come around are the ones that were addicted to soda, candy and cereal. Maybe one day.

I will agree with one part of your statement. II put it in bold for you above.

Our body doesn't get addicted to the sugar in fruit because we can't eat enough fruit to give us enough sugar and make us addicted. And yes anyone can get fat but some peoples metabolism gear into burning fat too much that they would literally have to stuff themselves from dawn to dusk to do so. And even then it would only be significant after overcoming their own metabolic inertia. If you think that everyone has the same experience with putting on and losing weight then that is just you being close minded about things outside your experience.

Prattle all you like but I am unconvinced that you are really doing anything but soap boxing your opinion. And while I constantly acknowledge that my words come from firmly held opinions about my life experiences. All you do is give your opinion and then write FACT next to it as if that makes it so. I do not feel that I should need to point out that even scientists don't state their findings as fact.

Shall we have a contest to see who can shout IM RIGHT! the loudest next?

Well I'm just gonna keep giving people with the same problem as me the advice that helped me out. And you can keep telling them the problem doesn't exist. I am happy to let them decide which one of us to listen to. Because I know they will understand.

Alcohol converts to stupid decisions at 3AM

QFT :drinker:

@ MrM27

No that's a misconception. You can in fact be obese and not be addicted to sugar. You can also have one of these bodies that can't be anything other than skinny AND be addicted to sugar. The two things often go together but are not mutually dependent. I was suggesting your sugar cravings probably weren't as bad as mine. Because if they where you would simply probably change your mind. Sure dismiss it if you like but that's all I will say. I believe in what I say about foods like this wholeheartedly.

However I am NOT an advocate of totally "clean" eating, as if there is such a thing as dirty food anyway lol. Nor am I demonizing sugar. I am simply suggesting that just because an engine is designed to handle moderate amounts of something effectively doesn't mean that flooding the engine with it is a good idea. I mean if THAT where true there would be no need to calorie count. Our body would just smartly take what it needed from our food and nor more. And we would be able to eat for enjoyment as long as we met minimum quotas.

Since that is not the case I advocate moderation. And also because I was surprised as well. For years i guffawed at sugar addiction. I just kept saying .. i like it because it tastes good. But I truly made a mistake I regret and that was difficult to put right. Admittedly I had to jump preeeety far off the sane path to do it. But no force of debate on earth will convince me I was not addicted to sugar. You really might as well try to convince me that the sky is blue. I know this is an appeal to emotion but frankly for relating ones human experience I can't think of a much better way to do it. I'm not really looking for sympathy either. I ate all that damn sugar. But I do get annoyed when people outright dismiss things that lie outside their knowledge. Just because you have never been heavily dependent on sugar doesn't mean it isn't possible.

I understand that you want to stop people from being too obsessed with healthy eating. That's a real problem too. I wouldn't even DARE poo poo it. But to me this is something as real as a kick in the teeth and I would be grateful if you didn't deny that. However if you remain unconvinced we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Don't assume you know what my eating habits were like or that I didn't go out to the store at 2am while up watching TV because I wanted some sour patch kids or other candies. Don't make assumptions as to what my frame of mind was at that time. Do I blame the candy for making me fat? No. I chose to go buy it, it didn't jump into my mouth. At the end of the day my desire to feel better about myself and get fit was greater than my desire to stuff my face all day with whatever I wanted.

Bodies that can't be anything but skinny don't exist. Anyone can get fat. Fact.

I understand addiction. As I was once an addict, but not to sugar. I understand you'd be grateful if i didn't deny sugar addiction but unfortunately I have to deny it. Sorry. Not so sorry. I'm going sit here and try to convince you on anything. You do what you need to get you through the day. I never said I want people to be obsessed with healthy eating. I could care less if the guy next to me is eating a salad or a bowl of broccoli for lunch just don't look at me and criticize me because I went and got pizza or tacos (with yellow rice and white flour tortillas).

I'm hoping one day someone will come along and say "Man, I sure was addicted to that sugar in bananas or onions or mangos. But alas the only ones that come around are the ones that were addicted to soda, candy and cereal. Maybe one day.

I will agree with one part of your statement. II put it in bold for you above.

Our body doesn't get addicted to the sugar in fruit because we can't eat enough fruit to give us enough sugar and make us addicted. And yes anyone can get fat but some peoples metabolism gear into burning fat too much that they would literally have to stuff themselves from dawn to dusk to do so. And even then it would only be significant after overcoming their own metabolic inertia. If you think that everyone has the same experience with putting on and losing weight then that is just you being close minded about things outside your experience.

Prattle all you like but I am unconvinced that you are really doing anything but soap boxing your opinion. And while I constantly acknowledge that my words come from firmly held opinions about my life experiences. All you do is give your opinion and then write FACT next to it as if that makes it so. I do not feel that I should need to point out that even scientists don't state their findings as fact.

Shall we have a contest to see who can shout IM RIGHT! the loudest next?

Well I'm just gonna keep giving people with the same problem as me the advice that helped me out. And you can keep telling them the problem doesn't exist. I am happy to let them decide which one of us to listen to. Because I know they will understand.

That's why I only drink beer and not whiskey . . .

Are we ever going to find out how much fruit I can eat before it hits toxic levels? I had some pineapple this morning, do I need to worry yet?

How many g of fructose can I ingest before it becomes an issue? SOMEONE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BEFORE I EAT MYSELF INTO A DIRE SITUATION!

LOUD NOISES!

Where is Joanne when there is such a critical fructose related issue going on here?! She is practically a fructose doctor! Perhaps you can rush over to her forum and ask your question there. Then rush right back and let us know how long you have before your liver turns to fat. Inquiring minds want to know.