Strength Training

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Mrsbeale11
Mrsbeale11 Posts: 126 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So I was all geared up to start stronglifts 5x5 routine and when I started it there was 2 problems. One I can't do a proper squat ATM without a Swiss ball and Two I have no strength!!!!!

Haven't worked out in 6 years so in completely outta shape :(

Does it affect your progress if you start your strength training with Machines? So far I can use 10kg on the arm machines (and that's pushing it to failure)

Thanks for the responses in advance :flowerforyou:

ETA as iPhone likes to change squat to sway....
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Replies

  • SuperC_85
    SuperC_85 Posts: 393
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    With Stronglifts you should be starting on an empty bar...
    Keep at it, your strength will increase

    Squats, LEARN! What do you mean you cant do a proper squat?
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
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    i don't understand how you need a swiss ball to squat? do you squat down to it and use it to bounce you back up? if so, then you are probably using too much weight.
  • cbhubbybubble
    cbhubbybubble Posts: 465 Member
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    With Stronglifts you should be starting on an empty bar...
    Keep at it, your strength will increase

    Squats, LEARN! What do you mean you cant do a proper squat?

    ^^ This

    Start with an empty bar and work on form. Don't feel obligated to add the 5lbs per until you know you are doing it right. I'm taking it slowly, too. Only up to 65 on squats as I want to be sure my form is good and I'm breaking parallel before I worry about adding weight quickly. It will come.
  • Mrsbeale11
    Mrsbeale11 Posts: 126 Member
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    6 years ago I dislocated my patella, tore the ligaments and was in a cast for 2 months so prob a bit scared tbh to try a squat on my own.

    You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up
  • Mrsbeale11
    Mrsbeale11 Posts: 126 Member
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    Cool thanks I'll start with the empty bar, thanks again
  • George_Baileys_Ghost
    George_Baileys_Ghost Posts: 1,524 Member
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    If working with the bar is too much right now, consider starting out with a solid body weight program like You Are Your Own Gym to build up some basic strength, and balance, and then after going through the beginner and maybe even intermediate version of it, then revisit the idea of coming back to SL.
  • cbhubbybubble
    cbhubbybubble Posts: 465 Member
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    i can relate to a fear of re-injury for sure. I tore ligaments in my knee downhill skiing almost 25 years ago. The pain and recovery from that was enough to keep me off a ski hill since. I have mildly re-injured the ligaments over the years doing a variety of things, but squatting doesn't seem to bother my knee at all...happy about that =)
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
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    You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up

    yeah, don't do that. just squat like normal.
  • plm209
    plm209 Posts: 222 Member
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    As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.

    There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.
  • randomtai
    randomtai Posts: 9,003 Member
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    As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.

    There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.

    Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:
  • spicegeek
    spicegeek Posts: 325 Member
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    You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up

    yeah - that`s a good way to teach yourself really bad from - don`t do that - start with body weight squats - then use body bars then work up to the fixed barbells - then the empty bar which is 45lbs - I would not suggest you go direct to the empty bar at this stage
  • Mrsbeale11
    Mrsbeale11 Posts: 126 Member
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    You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up

    yeah - that`s a good way to teach yourself really bad from - don`t do that - start with body weight squats - then use body bars then work up to the fixed barbells - then the empty bar which is 45lbs - I would not suggest you go direct to the empty bar at this stage

    Really didn't know that, I used the ball because that's what my physio told me to do all those years ago to keep my form correct

    Thanks again everyone
  • plm209
    plm209 Posts: 222 Member
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    As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.

    There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.

    Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:

    I have to disagree with you on this. Typically, I'd say avoid the smith machine, but it seems like her problem is the fear of re-injury. The smith machine can help to build confidence and some basic form. As I said in my post, use it simply as a jumping off point and as soon as you can squat the free weight bar, get rid of it. I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence than snap her back up or not go deep enough for fear of injury.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.

    There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.

    Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:

    I have to disagree with you on this. Typically, I'd say avoid the smith machine, but it seems like her problem is the fear of re-injury. The smith machine can help to build confidence and some basic form. As I said in my post, use it simply as a jumping off point and as soon as you can squat the free weight bar, get rid of it. I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence than snap her back up or not go deep enough for fear of injury.

    Smith machine teaches an unnatural bar path and improper positioning. .So no, it will not build form.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up

    yeah - that`s a good way to teach yourself really bad from - don`t do that - start with body weight squats - then use body bars then work up to the fixed barbells - then the empty bar which is 45lbs - I would not suggest you go direct to the empty bar at this stage

    It's not a bad thing- it just serves a completely different purpose- and you are right- it is NOT translatable to barbell squatting.

    But doing that isn't bad- they use it for PT all the time. it has a purpose.


    OP- use a chair- or a railing to help support you on the way down- I find the frame of a rack works extremely well.

    Keep working on form- it gets better.
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
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    i don't understand how you need a swiss ball to squat? do you squat down to it and use it to bounce you back up? if so, then you are probably using too much weight.

    ^This a very common mobility exercise to do with clients who have Anterior Pelvic Tilt i.e. they lean forward when the squat.

    More than likely you have tight Hip Flexors and weak Glutes. Stretch the crap out of your Quads and Psoas and strengthen up your backside (glutes, hamstrings, etc.) I would work on this before you attempt to do anything heavy with Squats. Throw a Barbell/weight on the back of someone who leans when they squat and you're going to make matters much worse, they'll have incredibly bad form, and of course risk getting injured.
  • helen8328
    helen8328 Posts: 36 Member
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    You may find it easier to start squatting with your own bodyweight first (without the ball) to practice your form before trying it with weights. There are loads of videos on youtube with tips on correct form. Then when you're comfortable with this try it with a light barbell and work your way up the weights until you can cope with an empty bar and then later add weights to it.

    In my gym they also have a squat machine where you lean back against it and squat. It's nowhere near as good as free weights but it will help build up your muscles for when you feel ready for squatting. I don't know what its called but could be helpful if you can find one.
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
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    In my gym they also have a squat machine where you lean back against it and squat. It's nowhere near as good as free weights but it will help build up your muscles for when you feel ready for squatting. I don't know what its called but could be helpful if you can find one.

    It's called a Hack Squat machine :smile:
  • IronPlayground
    IronPlayground Posts: 1,594 Member
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    As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.

    There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.

    Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:

    I have to disagree with you on this. Typically, I'd say avoid the smith machine, but it seems like her problem is the fear of re-injury. The smith machine can help to build confidence and some basic form. As I said in my post, use it simply as a jumping off point and as soon as you can squat the free weight bar, get rid of it. I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence than snap her back up or not go deep enough for fear of injury.

    I'd think goblet squats would be a better alternative than the smith machine. Allows for lighter weight with the dumbbell, but doesn't restrict the movement as would the smith machine.
  • lrmall01
    lrmall01 Posts: 377 Member
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    Does it affect your progress if you start your strength training with Machines? So far I can use 10kg on the arm machines (and that's pushing it to failure)

    Basically, yes, it does affect your progress. Everybody has to start somewhere and you seem scared to begin with an olympic barbell. Probably the best alternatives are a lighter barbell, dumbells or just bodyweight as others have already suggested.

    If you are dead set on doing machines think it would be OK, if you feel safer, to start doing a stronglifts inspired workout on machines. Just keep in mind it won't last forever and you need to be moving towards a barbell based routine ASAP.

    Here are the replacements:

    A
    Squat - Leg press machine
    Bench Press - Chest press machine
    Bent over row - Rowing machine

    B
    Squat - Leg press machine
    Overhead Press - Shoulder press machine
    Deadlift - Smith machine deadlift or back extensions

    Start out really light, add weight whenever you complete a 5x5.

    Good luck.

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