Strength Training
Mrsbeale11
Posts: 126 Member
So I was all geared up to start stronglifts 5x5 routine and when I started it there was 2 problems. One I can't do a proper squat ATM without a Swiss ball and Two I have no strength!!!!!
Haven't worked out in 6 years so in completely outta shape
Does it affect your progress if you start your strength training with Machines? So far I can use 10kg on the arm machines (and that's pushing it to failure)
Thanks for the responses in advance :flowerforyou:
ETA as iPhone likes to change squat to sway....
Haven't worked out in 6 years so in completely outta shape
Does it affect your progress if you start your strength training with Machines? So far I can use 10kg on the arm machines (and that's pushing it to failure)
Thanks for the responses in advance :flowerforyou:
ETA as iPhone likes to change squat to sway....
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Replies
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With Stronglifts you should be starting on an empty bar...
Keep at it, your strength will increase
Squats, LEARN! What do you mean you cant do a proper squat?0 -
i don't understand how you need a swiss ball to squat? do you squat down to it and use it to bounce you back up? if so, then you are probably using too much weight.0
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With Stronglifts you should be starting on an empty bar...
Keep at it, your strength will increase
Squats, LEARN! What do you mean you cant do a proper squat?
^^ This
Start with an empty bar and work on form. Don't feel obligated to add the 5lbs per until you know you are doing it right. I'm taking it slowly, too. Only up to 65 on squats as I want to be sure my form is good and I'm breaking parallel before I worry about adding weight quickly. It will come.0 -
6 years ago I dislocated my patella, tore the ligaments and was in a cast for 2 months so prob a bit scared tbh to try a squat on my own.
You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up0 -
Cool thanks I'll start with the empty bar, thanks again0
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If working with the bar is too much right now, consider starting out with a solid body weight program like You Are Your Own Gym to build up some basic strength, and balance, and then after going through the beginner and maybe even intermediate version of it, then revisit the idea of coming back to SL.0
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i can relate to a fear of re-injury for sure. I tore ligaments in my knee downhill skiing almost 25 years ago. The pain and recovery from that was enough to keep me off a ski hill since. I have mildly re-injured the ligaments over the years doing a variety of things, but squatting doesn't seem to bother my knee at all...happy about that
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You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up
yeah, don't do that. just squat like normal.0 -
As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.
There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.0 -
As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.
There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.
Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:0 -
You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up
yeah - that`s a good way to teach yourself really bad from - don`t do that - start with body weight squats - then use body bars then work up to the fixed barbells - then the empty bar which is 45lbs - I would not suggest you go direct to the empty bar at this stage0 -
You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up
yeah - that`s a good way to teach yourself really bad from - don`t do that - start with body weight squats - then use body bars then work up to the fixed barbells - then the empty bar which is 45lbs - I would not suggest you go direct to the empty bar at this stage
Really didn't know that, I used the ball because that's what my physio told me to do all those years ago to keep my form correct
Thanks again everyone0 -
As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.
There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.
Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:
I have to disagree with you on this. Typically, I'd say avoid the smith machine, but it seems like her problem is the fear of re-injury. The smith machine can help to build confidence and some basic form. As I said in my post, use it simply as a jumping off point and as soon as you can squat the free weight bar, get rid of it. I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence than snap her back up or not go deep enough for fear of injury.0 -
As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.
There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.
Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:
I have to disagree with you on this. Typically, I'd say avoid the smith machine, but it seems like her problem is the fear of re-injury. The smith machine can help to build confidence and some basic form. As I said in my post, use it simply as a jumping off point and as soon as you can squat the free weight bar, get rid of it. I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence than snap her back up or not go deep enough for fear of injury.
Smith machine teaches an unnatural bar path and improper positioning. .So no, it will not build form.0 -
You put the Swiss ball in the curve of your back against a wall and squat down to the floor and use the ball as a guide when you push back up
yeah - that`s a good way to teach yourself really bad from - don`t do that - start with body weight squats - then use body bars then work up to the fixed barbells - then the empty bar which is 45lbs - I would not suggest you go direct to the empty bar at this stage
It's not a bad thing- it just serves a completely different purpose- and you are right- it is NOT translatable to barbell squatting.
But doing that isn't bad- they use it for PT all the time. it has a purpose.
OP- use a chair- or a railing to help support you on the way down- I find the frame of a rack works extremely well.
Keep working on form- it gets better.0 -
i don't understand how you need a swiss ball to squat? do you squat down to it and use it to bounce you back up? if so, then you are probably using too much weight.
^This a very common mobility exercise to do with clients who have Anterior Pelvic Tilt i.e. they lean forward when the squat.
More than likely you have tight Hip Flexors and weak Glutes. Stretch the crap out of your Quads and Psoas and strengthen up your backside (glutes, hamstrings, etc.) I would work on this before you attempt to do anything heavy with Squats. Throw a Barbell/weight on the back of someone who leans when they squat and you're going to make matters much worse, they'll have incredibly bad form, and of course risk getting injured.0 -
You may find it easier to start squatting with your own bodyweight first (without the ball) to practice your form before trying it with weights. There are loads of videos on youtube with tips on correct form. Then when you're comfortable with this try it with a light barbell and work your way up the weights until you can cope with an empty bar and then later add weights to it.
In my gym they also have a squat machine where you lean back against it and squat. It's nowhere near as good as free weights but it will help build up your muscles for when you feel ready for squatting. I don't know what its called but could be helpful if you can find one.0 -
In my gym they also have a squat machine where you lean back against it and squat. It's nowhere near as good as free weights but it will help build up your muscles for when you feel ready for squatting. I don't know what its called but could be helpful if you can find one.
It's called a Hack Squat machine
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As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.
There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.
Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:
I have to disagree with you on this. Typically, I'd say avoid the smith machine, but it seems like her problem is the fear of re-injury. The smith machine can help to build confidence and some basic form. As I said in my post, use it simply as a jumping off point and as soon as you can squat the free weight bar, get rid of it. I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence than snap her back up or not go deep enough for fear of injury.
I'd think goblet squats would be a better alternative than the smith machine. Allows for lighter weight with the dumbbell, but doesn't restrict the movement as would the smith machine.0 -
Does it affect your progress if you start your strength training with Machines? So far I can use 10kg on the arm machines (and that's pushing it to failure)
Basically, yes, it does affect your progress. Everybody has to start somewhere and you seem scared to begin with an olympic barbell. Probably the best alternatives are a lighter barbell, dumbells or just bodyweight as others have already suggested.
If you are dead set on doing machines think it would be OK, if you feel safer, to start doing a stronglifts inspired workout on machines. Just keep in mind it won't last forever and you need to be moving towards a barbell based routine ASAP.
Here are the replacements:
A
Squat - Leg press machine
Bench Press - Chest press machine
Bent over row - Rowing machine
B
Squat - Leg press machine
Overhead Press - Shoulder press machine
Deadlift - Smith machine deadlift or back extensions
Start out really light, add weight whenever you complete a 5x5.
Good luck.0 -
Does it affect your progress if you start your strength training with Machines? So far I can use 10kg on the arm machines (and that's pushing it to failure)
I didn't see anyone answer this, but it would be OK, if you feel safer, to start doing a stronglifts inspired workout on machines. Just keep in mind it won't last forever and you need to be moving towards a barbell based routine.
Here are the replacements:
A
Squat - Leg press machine
Bench Press - Chest press machine
Bent over row - Rowing machine
B
Squat - Leg press machine
Overhead Press - Shoulder press machine
Deadlift - Smith machine deadlift
Start out really light, add weight whenever you complete a 5x5, and get transitioned to a real barbell ASAP.
Good luck.
I'd actually disagree here. Machines limit range of motion and don't always translate over to the barbell. If you need to go lighter than the bar, dumbbells are a better alternative.0 -
I'd actually disagree here. Machines limit range of motion and don't always translate over to the barbell. If you need to go lighter than the bar, dumbbells are a better alternative.
Haha, I actually was updating my post to clarify this a little at the same time you replied.
Totally agree with you that machines are probably the worst option there is, other than sitting on the couch. Just trying to give the OP a little guidance if they are dead set on using machines.0 -
I'd actually disagree here. Machines limit range of motion and don't always translate over to the barbell. If you need to go lighter than the bar, dumbbells are a better alternative.
Haha, I actually was updating my post to clarify this a little at the same time you replied.
Totally agree with you that machines are probably the worst option there is, other than sitting on the couch. Just trying to give the OP a little guidance if they are dead set on using machines.
:laugh: :drinker:0 -
As much as I hate to suggest it, try using the smith machine to build your strength up and help with your form. Every week, keep trying to squat the bar without the machine. Once you can successfully squat the empty bar, dump the smith machine entirely.
There are pros and cons to the smith machine. Yes, it helps to build confidence since you can lock the bar at any point and it guides you. However, at the same time it restricts your range of motion and takes out the stabilizer muscles since it can't leave the track. Use it as a learning tool but don't let it become a crutch.
Please don't do this... This does not translate to free weights well at all. :noway:
I have to disagree with you on this. Typically, I'd say avoid the smith machine, but it seems like her problem is the fear of re-injury. The smith machine can help to build confidence and some basic form. As I said in my post, use it simply as a jumping off point and as soon as you can squat the free weight bar, get rid of it. I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence than snap her back up or not go deep enough for fear of injury.
I'd think goblet squats would be a better alternative than the smith machine. Allows for lighter weight with the dumbbell, but doesn't restrict the movement as would the smith machine.
1 - This ^^^^^ Goblet Squats over the Smith...
2 - "I'd rather see her use the smith machine to build confidence then SNAP HER BACK UP or not go deep enough...." Errrrrrr..... It was recommended to start on the EMPTY BAR.......
OP - I had physio 8 years ago on my Knee. I now squat 418lb's for reps, and 454Lb's as a Comp PB... As has been said practise FORM with the empty bar..
Also one of the PT's in my gym has had the same injury as you, 14 times!! He now Squats Heavy, and advises the same as above - Master the form with the empty bar.0 -
Thanks everyone everything that you have said has been noted.
When you start on this journey you look at all the fit people on here who all lift heavy and think (well I did...) that's what I want to be like...putting it into practise has been a bit different from how I thought it be (I didn't think I'd be able to do massive lifts to begin with but something) so duly noted that the general consensus is machines will not give the same results, stretch the h*ll out of my muscles to open hips up, don't be scared by previous injury but do practise form to avoid said previous injury and just keep at it.
Once again thank you all for taking the time to pass on your personal knowledge that I greatly lack!
:flowerforyou:0 -
If working with the bar is too much right now, consider starting out with a solid body weight program like You Are Your Own Gym to build up some basic strength, and balance, and then after going through the beginner and maybe even intermediate version of it, then revisit the idea of coming back to SL.
^This.0 -
Google "Goblet Squat". Even with a small amount of weight, a goblet squat is effective and helps your form. Not because of the resistance, but because the weight used acts as a counterbalance and forces your body to use good form. When most people squat with no weight, they unknowingly lean forward too much. This is bad for knee, ankle, calf, and hip mobility. The weight used in a goblet squat (even just a few lbs) will help you stay straight. In fact, many people find that lowering into the squat position is the hardest part - if that's the case, then it is working right and forcing the right muscles to work. Don't feel bad about being weak in a squat, once the form gets right you get strong very quickly.
An alternative is to squat facing just a few inches from a wall, and when your nose almost touches the wall, ascend back up. Focus on trying to get lower without touching the wall.0 -
So I was all geared up to start stronglifts 5x5 routine and when I started it there was 2 problems. One I can't do a proper squat ATM without a Swiss ball and Two I have no strength!!!!!
Haven't worked out in 6 years so in completely outta shape
Does it affect your progress if you start your strength training with Machines? So far I can use 10kg on the arm machines (and that's pushing it to failure)
Thanks for the responses in advance :flowerforyou:
ETA as iPhone likes to change squat to sway....
Do what makes you feel comfortable, secure, and positive. If that means machines, then by all means, do machines.
There is way too much browbeating people into thinking if they don't start with a program like stronglifts, anything they do is useless.
There is no reason why you can't start with machines, or a mixture of machines and selected functional exercises to learn fundamentals and body awareness.
Believe it or not, people don't have to master a complete, free-weight lifting program on day 1. You are allowed to start at a lower level and progress gradually. There are plenty of people who need time to learn how to squat or deadlift properly. While they are learning, they can also do other exercises -- even on (gasp!) machines -- to increase strength. Any so-called "shortcomings" of machines are: a) not that relevant to a new exerciser and b) transient issues that are easily resolved once the person moves into more of a free-weight based program.
Almost none of my clients do back squats or deadlifts at first. However, just about all of them are doing them by weeks 6-8--even the 70 yr old females with fibro. In the meantime, they have seen dramatic increases in strength, balance, body awareness, etc, doing other exercises---even those on machines.0
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