Methodology in diet
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I agree. It is an excellent thread.
Sexypants is a GREAT place for folks to start.I just want to know, is Sexypants being recalled?
Personally in my dealings with people on this site, I assume they have chosen a calorie counting approach and so the conversations are usually about how to do it successfully. No, I do not believe calorie counting is the only way to lose weight. In fact, most of us probably lost a good bit of weight before calorie counting
Regarding the sexypants thread, I still stand by that post as being full of useful and good information.0 -
We have chatted about this before so I know you know I agree that calorie counting is not always the best approach for some people. There are many ways to skin a cat as they say (not sure who 'they are' though). Personal preference and context are probably the most, or at least one of the most important considerations as to the 'best' approach for many different aspects of nutrition, as well as training for that matter.
Personally, I usually calorie count when cutting as this approach works for me. It does not 'take over' nor is it really a chore. I like to be as accurate as possible so I can ensure that my diet is as effective as possible (including getting enough protein and being able to ignore water weight fluctuations as I know I am in a deficit). However, at times, and when I am maintaining, whether planned or just because I need a break), I often do not track as I feel I need a mental break, especially if I have a lot of things going on outside diet and nutrition. I maintained my weight for years without tracking (or only sporadically tracking) and it worked for me. That being said, my approach is personal to me - it works for me and it does not cause me to have an unhealthy relationship with food that it can do for some.
I would add however, that outside circumstances when counting calories can lead to negative behavioral issues, counting calories will generally tend to be the 'best' choice for the many, especially if results are not being seen without accurate tracking.
I agree. It's what works for me, and pre-planning my calories lets me not think about it. Additionally, I know myself very well. If I were to stop counting and start winging it, my portions would grow, I'd miscount the donuts and the cookies, etc. As someone who was once VERY obese, hunger cues just don't work and I will overeat and gain weight. I think that given the amount of time involved in losing a lot of weight, doing something that is sustainable is important. For me, that's counting calories. I don't like setting myself up for failure, and denying my own tendencies to underestimate my calories/intake, giving up calorie counting would be a major problem.
My husband is going to try to lose 10 lbs or so once he can bring exercise back into his daily routine. I'm not going to recommend that he count calories, knowing his personality. But, I will be mindful about what I cook. In addition, if he simply started getting drip coffee instead of his super sweet whatever the hell it is coffee concoction, cut back on his sweets, and increase his activity level a smidge for a few months, he'd have those 10 lbs. gone and can go back to life as it was (unless of course the scale moves back up). If it looks like it's not working, then maybe he'll need to count calories.
I Agree with Otter. I can see that there are some that would need to calorie count for just a short period of time, and then be able to portion control on their own. I'm like she is however, and my portions would slowly get larger, I would let my guard down and the weight would come back on. On the other hand, I can definitely see how for some people it can become too much of an obsession, all foods start to become numbers and data instead of a form of nutrition and something to be enjoyed. I feel like it gives me a form of control over my health and my choices.0 -
The reason I am a staunch advocate of calorie counting is that, when executed correctly, it will produce results for 99% of people on planet earth. The 1% being those with actual, diagnosed, metabolic issues that have such low TDEE's they are never able to get into a deficit. Those individuals are the exception that should seek medical guidance in dealing with their condition.
If you calorie count correctly, and stick to a calorie goal that causes you to be below your TDEE you will lose weight. Now admittedly this statement is an oversimplification. To calorie count correctly takes lots of practice. It is time consuming at first. As time goes on it becomes easier to execute. MFP has several features built in to make the process easier. People should really get to know both the app and website inside and out. Getting a solid idea of your TDEE can also be difficult at first. Calorie counting can help you pin this number down though. If you consistently eat the same number of accurately tracked calories and maintain weight, then you've found it. At this point it is easy to manipulate your calories for whatever your goal may be. Calorie counting also helps immensely with stalls in either weight loss or weight gain. Due to changes in activity level, fluctuations in NEAT or decreases in BMR due to weight loss of metabolic slowdown, we know that your TDEE is not going to be a constant, static, figure. If your weight has stalled and you do not have an accurate idea of how much you are taking in, it can be difficult to know how much less you need to eat to get the weight moving again.
I think an accurate calorie count is even more needed in a bulking or muscle building phase. When in a fat loss phase pretty much any weight loss is a positive. If you lose 1lb a week average that's good. Lose 1.5lbs a week, even better. Lose 0.5 lbs a week, yeah it's slower then most would want but it's still progress. So long as you are in a deficit, you are still going in the right direction. Bulking on the other hand really requires you move up at a slow yet steady pace. Gain too fast and you'll be putting on unnecessary fat ultimately decreasing the length of time you will allow yourself to bulk before you decide another fat loss phase is needed. Gain too slowly and you run the risk of simply spinning your wheels. While I think at this point in my fitness career I could execute a successful cut without counting, I doubt that I could bulk without either minimizing muscle gains due to under eating or put on excess fat due to over eating.
As stated in the OP, if you have extreme goals, calorie counting is also crucial. While there are exceptions, most people who obtain sub 10% BF as men, and sub 15% as female do some form of counting. When your goals are to get contest lean or even just 6 pack lean, sometimes counting is unavoidable.
I will go back the point I made about how counting works for everyone. When I say that I mean if done correctly it will achieve desired results in body composition. Now I understand for some people, calorie counting simply isn't mentally good for them. They can get caught up in the numbers to the point of obsession. Just yesterday I read a facebook post about a guy who was so proud of himself because he was able to drink 2 tbsp of olive oil to hit his fat macros exactly. Despite the fact that he considered this act "gross" he still derived such pleasure from hitting his numbers on the nose. This, in my opinion is disordered eating. Now calorie counting will still work for this individual. It will still achieve results if executed correctly. Should he use it? Probably not. But not because it will not achieve results.
No single method of dieting is best for everyone. I don't think anyone would attempt to make that argument. Despite that I still feel calorie counting is king and should probably be the first method tried by those who struggle to lose weight. I feel it has more advantages and less disadvantages than any other method of weight loss. The majority of people that fail to achieve results when utilizing calorie counting do so because they either do not execute it correctly, or for one reason or another they cannot keep themselves in a deficit (binge eating, lack or willpower, apathy, etc). Those same issues will plague any diet plan. Those who have psychological issues with calorie counting also should not utilize it. Though I have seen no research data on the subject, I would guess that population is a minority simply from my own observations.
TL/DR: No single method of dieting is best for everyone. In my opinion calorie counting has more advantages and less disadvantages then any other method of losing weight, so for this reason it should be recommended as one of the first things those who struggle to lose weight should try.1 -
Nor do I? (I'm the one who said it was a great place to start)
Sexypants is a GREAT place for folks to start.I just want to know, is Sexypants being recalled?
Personally in my dealings with people on this site, I assume they have chosen a calorie counting approach and so the conversations are usually about how to do it successfully. No, I do not believe calorie counting is the only way to lose weight. In fact, most of us probably lost a good bit of weight before calorie counting
Regarding the sexypants thread, I still stand by that post as being full of useful and good information.
I guess I don't see the two as being incongruous.0 -
The reason I am a staunch advocate of calorie counting is that...[snipped]
TL/DR: No single method of dieting is best for everyone. In my opinion calorie counting has more advantages and less disadvantages then any other method of losing weight, so for this reason it should be recommended as one of the first things those who struggle to lose weight should try.
I agree with ^this guy.0 -
After writing the whole thing out I almost deleted everything except the tl/dr...lol. I feel it expressed my feelings so much better then the book I wrote. I left it in simply because it took me so long to write itThe reason I am a staunch advocate of calorie counting is that...[snipped]
TL/DR: No single method of dieting is best for everyone. In my opinion calorie counting has more advantages and less disadvantages then any other method of losing weight, so for this reason it should be recommended as one of the first things those who struggle to lose weight should try.
I agree with ^this guy.
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TL/DR: No single method of dieting is best for everyone. In my opinion calorie counting has more advantages and less disadvantages then any other method of losing weight, so for this reason it should be recommended as one of the first things those who struggle to lose weight should try.
I believe weighing out advantages and disadvantages when comparing methods of dieting needs to consider individual context which is the main point I was trying to get across.0 -
Ive been tracking my calories for a long time now, and I used to always use a HRM to monitor the amount of calories I burn in a workout session. My HRM broke, so now I dont use one at all and in all honesty, I dont really miss it. In fact I think I have been doing better without one.
Counting calories has lead me to lose the weight i have lost so far, and its something I dont mind doing the rest of the way. I wake up in the morning, log onto MFP and add the food I plan to eat during the day. If I end up not eating something I listed, then I take it out. IN some weird way this actually prevents me from binging on food. I also watch my macros as well.
Each persons journey is special and unique, so do what works for you!0 -
I'd love to hear what you disagree with. While I like your original post for the most part, I think the reply you're quoting is spot on and I'd be curious what you don't agree with.
So start a new thread. I don't know why that's so hard for you guys to understand. But if you __ start a new thread, I for one will be happy to tell you what I find objectionable in that post.
SideSteel, I don't know if I can keep my promise. In reading your OP, I don't find anything particularly objectionable. The quote that you included in your OP does not seem off base to me either. But like you said, context is important.
When I first read the quote from the other thread that you included, it didn't really make much of an impression. It struck me more as a list of excuses than rational reasons, but I could also see that there was some validity to them. Overall, I just didn't give the post much thought until the OP responded to it and asked for a new thread if the poster wanted to go in that direction. The resulting response, which I thought was pretty rude, was what triggered my critical tendencies.
(I'm purposely trying to be a little vague here. I don't want to start a new fight, and I don't want to derail your thread any more than I wanted to see the other thread taken down into a rabbit hole.)
Standing on its own, free of the other context, I don't see anything wrong with what you're saying. I agree with your post. I also agree with the quote in your OP. Especially considering all the qualifiers, I don't see how anybody could disagree with it.
However, it also makes me a little nervous or uncomfortable. While I don't think there's any reason to adhere to calorie counting if someone is successfully meeting their goals without it, I can see people using your reasoning as an excuse to quit counting calories. In my relatively short time on the MFP forum, I've seen a lot of people who fail to log their food. They'll skip meals, whole days, weeks, or months. I've seen a lot of people who hate using the scale. And I've seen some of those same people asking why they can't lose weight.
It doesn't take much time to weigh yourself. It doesn't take much time to log calories, especially if you have a smart phone. In most cases, I'm assuming (and maybe unfairly when considering any particular person) that it's not the act of stepping on a scale or logging food that bothers people, it's having to monitor something they don't want to monitor; it's not that it's hard to log 3 or 4 slices of pizza, it's hard to face the fact that you just doubled or tripled the amount of calories you were supposed to eat that day.
2/3 of Americans are overweight or obese. They need to count calories. They don't know it yet or want to know it yet, but they do. Most of us here on MFP are counting calories. Some of us want to one day put calorie counting behind us once we've hit our goals and successfully maintained for a while. I may be one of them. But I think for most of us, it will be a mistake. Hopefully we'll readily acknowledge that we might be on the wrong path once our pants start getting a little tight. But we wouldn't have gotten overweight in the first place if we hadn't already demonstrated that we're pretty good at practicing selective perception. (And we all know that pants shrink on their own. And that clothes manufacturers keep making clothes smaller to save on material costs.)
So with some reservations, I agree with you. And without reservation, I think this is a good discussion.1 -
I straddle the fence on this...
Speaking only concerning myself...
Most days I have no issues with counting and logging. I find a certain amount of pleasure at the end of the day that I have tracked and met my goals and still have room for that something extra.
However...
There have been times when all of the tracking has messed with my mind. I have never been a complusive (OCD) person...yet...
I have to wonder when I stand for 10 minutes try to get my food to weigh out exactly...such as...
My episode with roasted carrots...
I had figured my serving size at 50g...when I put them on my plate I had 53g...so I removed on...then I was at 51g...removed another and I was at 48g...put on back on...51g...
I had to change something...I DON"T WANT to live that way long term. So I made changes...I still track...still weigh...I just have had to learn to give myself a range...
At my age and activity level I have a small range of error...weight loss might be slower but I had to find a happy medium before I just quit all together. After losing almost 70lbs...slower was better than gaining it all back.0 -
I do believe that for someone interested in making long term lifestyle changes, calorie counting is the way to START. The information one can gain from really paying attention to what they are consuming is really invaluable.
Calorie counting is also the only thing that has really ever worked for me.
Now, I do believe that once an individual becomes familiar with their body, with their food choices, with portion sizes, etc etc, that it is possible to eat intuitively. The interesting thing to me from the quote in the original post was the distinction between processed and whole foods. I do believe that in order to eat intuitively and be effective at it, that a more whole food based diet is the best option. Which does again open the debate of processed food vs. whole food. Don't get me wrong, I eat everything :laugh: But from a simplicity standpoint, the whole food approach does seem like a better fit for individuals that are not interested in counting calories.
I'll still count though.....because ice cream and hamburger helper :drinker:0 -
Nor do I? (I'm the one who said it was a great place to start)
Sexypants is a GREAT place for folks to start.I just want to know, is Sexypants being recalled?
Personally in my dealings with people on this site, I assume they have chosen a calorie counting approach and so the conversations are usually about how to do it successfully. No, I do not believe calorie counting is the only way to lose weight. In fact, most of us probably lost a good bit of weight before calorie counting
Regarding the sexypants thread, I still stand by that post as being full of useful and good information.
I guess I don't see the two as being incongruous.
No I know, I was agreeing with you. :flowerforyou:0 -
However, it also makes me a little nervous or uncomfortable. While I don't think there's any reason to adhere to calorie counting if someone is successfully meeting their goals without it, I can see people using your reasoning as an excuse to quit counting calories. In my relatively short time on the MFP forum, I've seen a lot of people who fail to log their food. They'll skip meals, whole days, weeks, or months. I've seen a lot of people who hate using the scale. And I've seen some of those same people asking why they can't lose weight.
That's certainly a valid concern. I don't really know what the solution to that is, in that I believe there genuinely are people who aren't going to be able to adhere well to a calorie counting model, but at the same time I certainly don't want to paint a picture of being against calorie counting.
In fact, in the limited number of online clients I've worked with, they are all tracking intake and I am teaching them in various degrees about how to manipulate calorie and macronutrient intake and activity to get results, along with discussing behavioral aspects of dieting in the hopes that progress can be made along multiple avenues. My point here is that I'm still very much in the "calorie counting is a great method" camp -- I'm just claiming that all methods of dieting have characteristics about them, some of which match up very well to a given individual and others wont and as fans of calorie counting we tend to ignore that context and assume that our method must be ideal for everyone.
But back to your point, which I agree with, people who try it, certainly need to give it a legitimate try and there are probably many people who give up on the method for the wrong reasons when it could in fact be a great fit for them.It doesn't take much time to weigh yourself. It doesn't take much time to log calories, especially if you have a smart phone. In most cases, I'm assuming (and maybe unfairly when considering any particular person) that it's not the act of stepping on a scale or logging food that bothers people, it's having to monitor something they don't want to monitor; it's not that it's hard to log 3 or 4 slices of pizza, it's hard to face the fact that you just doubled or tripled the amount of calories you were supposed to eat that day.
That's perhaps true but I also think that there are additional issues that can crop up from long term calorie counting methods (separate from time investment which I don't think is a major concern -- we all know it takes very little time to log properly).
In fairness, I ALSO think that other dietary methods can have their own set of issues that can crop up. Just off the top of my head, meal plans could work for some people but now you're restricted to your meal plan so you lose flexibility. Low carb approaches blunt hunger for some people and create a deficit through satiety but now you're facing potential performance issues and I'd also question some people's ability to eliminate a variety of foods without falling off the wagon and binge eating. I'm rambling here but hopefully my point is clear -- each method is going to have characteristics that may effect people in various degrees.
Additionally, I think there's merit to the idea that some people may just adhere better to different plans. I'll use an example that, while extreme, is a legitimate example. I have relatives who are obese. Some of them are farmers and literally do not know how to access the internet. I could see someone in this context potentially doing much better through behavior modification and food selection methods to promote satiety (and create the calorie deficit through non tracking methods). This example also consists of a group of people who don't desire to see abs and that is relevant context as well.2/3 of Americans are overweight or obese. They need to count calories.
This is where I will again insert the notion that context matters. These obese people need to reduce their energy intake, improve their diet, engage in regular exercise, and lose weight. The calorie deficit piece is non-negotiable.
The tracking piece is subject to context and I'd hesitate to say that all obese people need to track, especially long term. There are definitely short term benefits of it and most people would gain a great deal by doing it properly.1 -
The deficit is fundamental to weight loss, but I think a lot of people confuse that with counting especially on here as the two are almost synonymous in some circles.
I agree with this entirely.0 -
Well said, SS.0
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Ah, okay. Gotcha!
Nor do I? (I'm the one who said it was a great place to start)
Sexypants is a GREAT place for folks to start.I just want to know, is Sexypants being recalled?
Personally in my dealings with people on this site, I assume they have chosen a calorie counting approach and so the conversations are usually about how to do it successfully. No, I do not believe calorie counting is the only way to lose weight. In fact, most of us probably lost a good bit of weight before calorie counting
Regarding the sexypants thread, I still stand by that post as being full of useful and good information.
I guess I don't see the two as being incongruous.
No I know, I was agreeing with you. :flowerforyou:0 -
Ah, okay. Gotcha!
Nor do I? (I'm the one who said it was a great place to start)
Sexypants is a GREAT place for folks to start.I just want to know, is Sexypants being recalled?
Personally in my dealings with people on this site, I assume they have chosen a calorie counting approach and so the conversations are usually about how to do it successfully. No, I do not believe calorie counting is the only way to lose weight. In fact, most of us probably lost a good bit of weight before calorie counting
Regarding the sexypants thread, I still stand by that post as being full of useful and good information.
I guess I don't see the two as being incongruous.
No I know, I was agreeing with you. :flowerforyou:
That leaves wondering why I asked
The writer of a here's a guide to weight loss via calorie counting says calorie counting may not always be the way to go. I just wanted to be sure he still stands by his original document, as it would be quite silly to continue sending people to it if he's had a change of heart and feels there's a better way. Without making any assumptions, I just wanted to know for sure0 -
In.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Hi, I'm new here....... I started my fitness pal last week when I also ordered my fitbit . Just in these few days I have discovered I do need to assess my calories vs nutrition ! Now , I am not an gym gal or a try every diet gal either. I'm 57 and overweight
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Menopause has been hard on me and I need to get a balance again. Although I have never been skinny , I had through the years been able to keep a balance ( retain a comfortable weight) .
I'm primarily writing this to praise the " My Fitness Pal" app for being not only just what I needed but being very user friendly. Between following my meals and my steps I feel equipped to proceed with my changes.
Thank you0 -
Great topic and post.
Totally agree.0
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