Vegetarian w/ PCOS considering a change (think: meat)

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  • iWillGetCrowSomeday
    iWillGetCrowSomeday Posts: 311 Member
    My understanding is that it's the other way around - you have higher amounts of free-floating androgen, precursor to testosterone, which causes the hair growth on the face, hair loss on the head....

    Androgens are also the precursors of estrogens.

    Yes, but they certainly don't act like estrogen.

    They can become either testosterone or estrogen, both are steroid hormones.

    PCOS causes insulin resistance. Insulin resistance causes hyperglycemia. Hyperglycemia triggers (in PCOS) excess insulin production by the pancreas. This excess insulin causes the body to store extra fat. The extra fat produces estrogen.

    EDIT: This is not to say that you're wrong about androgens that convert into testosterone, causing hirsutism. You're right about that. But androgens also convert into estrogen.

    Yes, they do, but the estrogen is unbalanced with lower than normal progesterone and it ultimately leads to higher testosterone than is normal in a PCOS'ed woman. So you have abnormally high levels of both.

    I agree with you. I think there may be a misunderstanding here. I never said the estrogen was higher than the testosterone, just that it was elevated and was a cause (not *the* cause) of certain pcos symptoms, and that estrogens or pseudo estrogens from diet could also cause symptoms.
  • jus_in_bello
    jus_in_bello Posts: 326 Member
    Have you had a test for celiac disease? Have a biopsoy of your small intestine for the most accurate results. Do some research on celiac blogs to see if your symptoms match. Sounds like they do.

    This. I'd try cutting out gluten before starting meat up, if only to see if that's the problem and so you aren't introducing a food while giving up a food. Also, being GF is not that hard once you do some research. I went GF and then had to go egg and dairy free while my body healed from the celiac damage, and it wasn't that hard. You can absolutely be GF and veg/vegan. if you have questions message me. I've never been tested or diagnosed Celiac, but when I went GF the migraines stopped, the digestion issues stopped, and I started losing bloat within a few days.
  • CysterWigs
    CysterWigs Posts: 136 Member
    "And I have never been healthier. I would suggest your diet is also very low in healthy fats and that could be a big problem. I'm a high fat, moderate protein low carb gal. That means lots of cream (yes, I now milk my own grassfed cow), ghee, butter, even tallow, lard etc and lots of sauteed veggies (in coconut oil too), our free range eggs, grassfed beef and pork (you want to see happy, see a pig with 6 gallons of milk in front of it ;), and free range chicken.
    I am content with my decision (albiet an insane amount of work because we live so rural nobody else does it for me to buy LOL), I am strong in my decision to eat high fat with the research surrounding it in re. to a healthy body, brain, and regulating sugar (DH's family is full of diabetes, high bp and cholesterol and he can be off any meds on this diet), and my kids have killer health.
    So, look at the healthy alternatives - producing grains and legumes is neither healthy nor sustainable agricuture "

    I meant to quote this initially and didn't do it right. (Whoops.) I wanted to clarify who I addressed this to. :)


    Thank you so much for this post. It sounds like you have a pretty sweet life out there in the country!
  • CysterWigs
    CysterWigs Posts: 136 Member
    Have you had a test for celiac disease? Have a biopsoy of your small intestine for the most accurate results. Do some research on celiac blogs to see if your symptoms match. Sounds like they do.

    This. I'd try cutting out gluten before starting meat up, if only to see if that's the problem and so you aren't introducing a food while giving up a food. Also, being GF is not that hard once you do some research. I went GF and then had to go egg and dairy free while my body healed from the celiac damage, and it wasn't that hard. You can absolutely be GF and veg/vegan. if you have questions message me. I've never been tested or diagnosed Celiac, but when I went GF the migraines stopped, the digestion issues stopped, and I started losing bloat within a few days.

    That's a pretty inspiring story. I have been slowly phasing out the wheat and other glutenous materials from my diet in response to this latest GI dilemma. It's been rough at times, but overall it's actually freed me up to eat foods I like more than bread, which is kind of a boring food come to think of it. My biggest hinderances are baked goods, which I avoid primarily by not buying them. I never met a brownie I didn't like. Quitting my office job - where sweets, treats, and horrible baked goods are omnipresent - also helped a lot. Trying to avoid the visual cues is hard at times, and makes me very aware just how addicted to carbs and high sugar treats I've been historically. I am glad I'm on MFP now. It's been really helpful to see other people's success and how they've coped. It's also nice that all sorts of folks - fit and otherwise - are on this site helping each other. Thanks for the advice. I will let you know how it goes.
  • Jenny_F
    Jenny_F Posts: 7 Member
    Hi CysterWigs, I also have PCOS and have been a vegetarian all of my adult life. I only actually started having weight and fatigue issues when I went on Metformin so I don't think it suits everyone. Are you taking a B12 supplement? I wasn't advised to and after 6 months on the drug I was than I had ever been and felt really tired.

    Some time after I refused to take it anymore I underwent an endoscopy procedure and the specialist had discovered that I had lost the thing that absorbs B12 through my stomach (intrinsic factor).

    When I asked him if it was my dietary choices he confirmed that it was in fact the medication that had caused it. I now have B12 injections every quarter and feel fine again.

    I find that I lose weight much more slowly than my friends who do not have the condition, but don't lose heart as if you keep following a healthy diet with portion control you will get there in the end.
  • AlamedadelCobre
    AlamedadelCobre Posts: 1
    Hi. I have been a vegetarian for 10 years and yesterday I decided to eat meat again. All because I NEED to get better from PCOS and specifically all the anxiety it causes me. My plan is to have a higer protein low carb no soy diet. I am a very healthy eater. Eat lots of veggies (duh), greens, whole wheat, non GMO, I try to find most of my things organic but even with this healthy diet I still have PCOS and keep gaining weight. I do not drink sodas, eat fast food, like sweet things or fried stuff. I should be in a healthy weight, but the PCOS does not let me. I was put on Metformin and it seemed to work, specially for my mood, but my doctor paused it when i got a huge panic attack about three weeks ago. my plan is to go back on metformin, start eating organic grass fed locall meat two to three times a week and excercise, Let me know how your change into being a meat eater again has helped. if i do not see any changes introducing meat back into my diet, I am definitely going back to being a vegetarian. I really hate not being one. I love that lifestyle and know it is the best for the environment and for the animals. But it seems to be affecting me negatively. It actually hurts to go back to meats.
  • LoupGarouTFTs
    LoupGarouTFTs Posts: 916 Member
    I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand the concept of being more concerned about the potential for an animal suffering than for my own actual physical health. Livestock exist because we consume them, otherwise they would cease to exist.

    All that aside, however . . . The major concern that I have for the OP starting with game animals, sheep, and goats is the strong flavor of the meat. Entirely grass-fed beef also tends to be tough (because the animal walks more to forage). Any of these things would make the transition back to eating meat more difficult/less pleasant. I think that eating a bit more fatty fish and shellfish might be helpful and not all that far off of what she is already doing. I think pork might be a better meat to start with than beef and increasing the chicken she eats might be better than pork. If it were me, I'd definitely stay away from organ meats for a while.

    I do think that increasing meat proteins will help the OP. I know that I've had insulin resistance and now have Type II diabetes. I've noticed that my met seems to upset my stomach less when I take it with a protein-based snack (like cheese) than it does when I take it with my cookies. I don't know if that will help the OP or not.
  • Mof3wc
    Mof3wc Posts: 126 Member
    If you want to try Paleo, then try it. You dint have to eat mammals to be paleo, you can do it with only eating fish/poultry, which you already do. That's not a huge leap.

    What will be a big change is that paleo cuts out dairy/soy/legumes/peanuts/corn and all grains. No relying on carbs to fill you up, it's pretty much a proteins/fats/veggies/fruit diet.

    Commit to it for 30 days. See if it helps you. Check out the book "Practical Paleo", it has tons of info, including the best foods to eat for different diseases and conditions.
  • dgkt
    dgkt Posts: 57 Member
    Why not say, "I don't eat red meat or pork", instead of "I'm a vegetarian, but I eat fish, eggs, milk, cheese, chicken, ect..." Just seems like it's an attention thing.

    That being said, talk to a ditetian first, and if meat is going to give you a better quality of life, go for it, girl!!
  • redraidergirl2009
    redraidergirl2009 Posts: 2,560 Member
    If you aren't vegetarian for ethical reasons then switch. But there is not a magic meat vitamin that is going to make you feel better if that is the dragon you're chasing.
  • geishastitches
    geishastitches Posts: 8 Member
    I am a vegetarian (since I was 12) and I also have pcos. I was diagnosed around 07 or 08.

    What I found, that made me drop weight was recommendation from my doctor (eat more protein! and when you're a veggie with pcos that's a little harder than you think off the bat). Btw, I was also on met but took myself off years ago and things are a lot more manageable for me. By no means, am I against it, but I believe with proper education giving my body a good shot based on how it's working, to try my best and at the time the older weight watcher momentum program did wonders for me.

    Since then, I have watch people like Darya Rose on an online class talk about nutrition, much of what I have already known, but just reintroducing myself back to elements for this second round of weight loss.

    You don't have to take my advice but from my personal experience:

    protein is key (eggs and cheese combos or separate.) Raise your serotonin levels this way.

    Not just by exercise but by what you eat and that is how. Naturally we might want to reach for things not so good for us; but eating protein more will curb your hunger a bit long. When not eating protein, I'm naturally hungry every 2 hours. When I eat protein, it's probably ever 4 hours.

    I wouldn't necessarily reach for the things cereals or things with high protein (though I do) but that combo in carbs like a cereal make me desire them a bit more and I'm still hungry every 2 hours. Probably because the sugar spikes. Cereal to me, is kinda like a dessert...even the really good healthy kinds.

    But I do, LOVE CARBS, (but whole wheat and high fiber grains (atleast 4 or 5 grams in each serving does wonders)

    And something, I always loved to do (cook your meals as much as you can) pack 'em with veggies you like.

    Hope that helps, you can feel free to ask me questions. I'm quick to say I don't know everything and I make mistakes too; but knowledge is power.
  • amosmoses88
    amosmoses88 Posts: 163 Member
    I have PCOS, GI problems, and taking Metformin as well, and although I'm not Vegan or anything, I have read and researched to a small degree about going to Paleo. (FYI Metformin is hard on most everybody's stomach that I've talked to that's taken it, so we're not alone!) I would LOVE to go Paleo, but living in a house full of meat eaters and all that, it's near impossible (can get pretty pricy trying to buy for a meat loving family AND Paleo) So I think you should try the Paleo. It doesn't hurt to try new things, and the plus side is that it's Natural and Organic! I'm CONSTANTLY tired. I also have a toddler who thinks bedtime is a joke. BUT, I shouldn't be AS tired as I am. It may be a chemical imbalance in our bodies. Idk if there's a way to tell that or not aside from the usual blood work up. Stress can do a lot to your body as well. So just play around with your options and see where it takes you!
  • Hkmahan
    Hkmahan Posts: 1 Member
    Did you introduce meat back into your diet? I have PCOS and have been vegetarian for a decade. I'm also considering reintroducing meat. Just curious how it went for you?
  • StephGetsSexy
    StephGetsSexy Posts: 8 Member
    My PCOS has improved drastically with a Low Carb High Fat eating plan (somewhat similar to Paleo). I used to be a vegetarian as well and I just didn't feel good! Now I am feeling GREAT and losing weight steadily!

    I am apart of some great groups on Facebook if you are interested in learning more or trying the Low Carb High Fat eating plan. The members are very helpful and friendly so feel free to post anything!

    Grp 1 https://www.facebook.com/groups/304246766284187/

    Grp 2 https://www.facebook.com/groups/317521605009622/

    Also if you are interested in learning more about this way of eating, check out the documentary called 'Fat Head' or 'Cereal Killers' on Youtube.

    The low carb lifestyle is perfect for those of us with PCOS.

    *hugs*
  • KombuchaCat
    KombuchaCat Posts: 834 Member
    Check out the Dr. Weston A. Price Foundation. They have lots of good info about why one should eat pasture raised animal products and why vegetarians have issues. Ethical considerations aside humans are evolutionarily designed to be omnivores despite much of the vegan propoganda. I don't fault anyone for wanting to live without taking a life but I think it will always end up being a battle against biology to do so. I would recomend books by one of the founders, Sally Fallon Morrell, "Nourishing Traditions" and "Eat Fat, Lose Fat". I was vegan for 3 years and began to have both physical and mental difficulties. I changed to a whole food traditional diet high in saturated fats from coconut oil and grass fed butter and am feeling awesome! They discuss eating sprouted grains/legumes, etc as well.
  • mommyrunning
    mommyrunning Posts: 495 Member
    I looked at your food diary to see how much protein & carbs you consume but there aren't entries for a while. I would recommend logging your food for a couple of weeks so you have a baseline to start with. Switching to meat may help you but it may be another issue such as not eating enough calories (for the energy problem) to not a good balance such as not enough protein, iron, or another nutrient. If you log your food for a few weeks the way you eat now then once you make a change you will be able to compare the two to see what is different. Logging is a great way to identify issues. For example I am a pregnant vegetarian with a history of migraines that were controlled for years suddenly they came back on a daily basis. After some investigation and review of my food logs I realized that they started at the same time I ate more carbs and less protein in order to deal with my nausea. Once I realized I was low I increased my protein and saw my headaches almost completely go away. Good luck. Hope you feel better soon.
  • PrimalSasha
    PrimalSasha Posts: 11
    https://www.youtube.com/user/drjasonfung

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