another exercise instead of deadlifts
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essential or not..... deadlifts trump all those listed exercises hands down. there is no comparison to the benefits of deadlifts vs rows/pull ups/etc....
as for form, just start with the bar if you have to, there is no shame in working your form to perfection. i still revert to just the bar or very light weight just for the motor pattern recruitment. once you feel you have got the form down then start adding weight. work more til your form starts to break down again, then back off a little weight and work form again. the best powerlifters in the world do it this way. they dont just grab the bar with 800lbs and pick it up. its all about technique, leverages, and understanding of how the deadlifts actually works.
+1
Being good at dead lifting is a great life skill anyway. You're dead lifting things everyday. Why not get good at it?0 -
a chin up is not a compound move. It's one of the biggest bicep isolation exercises you can do. Sure it hits a little back- but it's not a compound move.
your offically crazy lol. how do you define a compound lift?0 -
Deadlifts are not essential despite what people claim. Rows and pull ups/pulldowns will hit your back and if you feel you need extra hamstring stimulation after squats try good mornings, romanian deadlifts (which are simpler than dls and done for higher reps) or a hamstring curl if you have the option.
you do realize a dead lift is a compound lift and offers more bang for buck than all of those isolation exercises combined right?
Just because you are struggling to learn something doesn't mean you should just give up on it. That's silly.
You realize rows, chin ups, squats and rdls are all compound lifts too? I'll ask you what I asked the other person, what definable 'bang for your buck' does a deadlift have that these others don't have? Do you understand that being able to do a lift properly give you way more 'bang for your buck' than a lift you can't do?
The dogma on this forum is so backwards at times.
a row is not a compound move- it's an isolation back move.- yeah it requires stabilization but it doesn't hold a candle to the functional over arching advantages of a dead lift.
a chin up is not a compound move. It's one of the biggest bicep isolation exercises you can do. Sure it hits a little back- but it's not a compound move.
The above lifts both involve movement at the elbow and shoulder. By definition that makes these compound lifts, no?0 -
its quacking like a duck0
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essential or not..... deadlifts trump all those listed exercises hands down. there is no comparison to the benefits of deadlifts vs rows/pull ups/etc....
What does 'benefit' mean in this context? If you're looking for lat/rhomboid/teres stimulation and growth then rows will trump deads. If you're looking for hamstring growth then rdls' will likely trump regular deads. If you're talking 'gh production' or other assorted unnoticeable claims then you're right....
No exercise is mandatory so from that standpoint I agree that you can make substitutions, but you'll likely have to swap in multiple exercises to achieve what a deadlift achieves, and the point other people are making of practicing technique rather than fearing an exercise is a valid one, IMO.0 -
I've been working out at home and have been doing some weight training. I've watched several videos of deadlifting to see how my form should be but I feel I still don't have it 100% right and I'm affraid of injury. I can't afford a session of a trainer now so I was wondering if there are other forms of exercise that "mimic" a deadlift? I squat, bench press and do overhead press. Thanks in advance!
I'm not sure that you're really more prone to injury doing deadlifts than any other exercise - provided you do them with proper form. Just stop immediately when you begin fatiguing to the point you feel your form start to slip. It may be helpful to record yourself doing the movements, so that you can be 100% confident in your form.0 -
Deadlifts are not essential despite what people claim. Rows and pull ups/pulldowns will hit your back and if you feel you need extra hamstring stimulation after squats try good mornings, romanian deadlifts (which are simpler than dls and done for higher reps) or a hamstring curl if you have the option.
you do realize a dead lift is a compound lift and offers more bang for buck than all of those isolation exercises combined right?
Just because you are struggling to learn something doesn't mean you should just give up on it. That's silly.
You realize rows, chin ups, squats and rdls are all compound lifts too? I'll ask you what I asked the other person, what definable 'bang for your buck' does a deadlift have that these others don't have? Do you understand that being able to do a lift properly give you way more 'bang for your buck' than a lift you can't do?
The dogma on this forum is so backwards at times.
a row is not a compound move- it's an isolation back move.- yeah it requires stabilization but it doesn't hold a candle to the functional over arching advantages of a dead lift.
a chin up is not a compound move. It's one of the biggest bicep isolation exercises you can do. Sure it hits a little back- but it's not a compound move.
The above lifts both involve movement at the elbow and shoulder. By definition that makes these compound lifts, no?
Multiple large muscle groups.
Industry standard has compound as the big 4 and oly lifting.
Pull ups would be the next on the list.
And no- chin ups are not pull ups. they are two different exercises. Pull ups > chins in terms of compound or amount of parts hit.
walking involves multiple joints- I do not consider it to be a compound lift either.
doing boso ball squats involves multiple body parts- I still do not consider it a compound lift.
I guess are we talking LIFTING- or just working out.
Because in terms of lifting- it's the big 4 and Oly Lifts. you're significnatly hammering large muscle groups all at once in ONE movement.
If you are talking just "generic working out" then yes- doing combination pull up burpees or side lunges with an over head press- any little combination exercise could be considered compound simple by the fact you have tied two things together. - then yes sure- pull ups- chins rows- whatever you wanted could be called a compound- but then what would be the point of having that label to being with?0 -
I love deadlifts. I am actually still working on my form as well. That said, unless you are planning on competing in a PL competition, they are certainly not necessary. You can get the posterior chain firing from a myriad of different movements (many already mentioned).
People that are into the 3 big lifts love to use "bang for your buck" cliche. There might be some truth in that for some. Not so much for others. What are your goals? What do you enjoy? As you mentioned, is injury a concern? Etc. Etc.0 -
Enough arguing! Can't we all just admit this is the king of all exercises (and sandles also)!!!!??!!!
I actually think this is an incredibly valid and helpful discussion for many people.
not seeing arguing going on- more discussion and hammering out semantics. We may not all agree- and that's okay- but the discussion I think is extremely valid.0 -
This thread has gone off the rails.0
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This thread has gone off the rails.
Don't they all? :laugh:0 -
Would Prone Hyperextensions, with ankles anchored under a strap or with partner holding ankles down, bending forward over the end of the bench and then up into Cobra position be a fair substitute for deadlift? It is hitting the hamstrings and the whole posterior chain as a DL does, just no grip or shoulder/arm involvement.
I would then couple this movement with pull-ups to work the back and pulling musculature from a different plane.
That's if you didn't want to do DLs. I'm not saying the substitutes here are superior, but the OP was asking for "instead of".0 -
So NOT what I THOUGHT good mornings were. Had to look that one up. I have gutter brain. :laugh:0
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So NOT what I THOUGHT good mornings were. Had to look that one up. I have gutter brain. :laugh:
The picture is a Donkey Calf Raise, which has no relevance whatsoever to this thread, which doesn't really matter because as mentioned this thread has gone off track anyway...0 -
What does 'benefit' mean in this context? If you're looking for lat/rhomboid/teres stimulation and growth then rows will trump deads. If you're looking for hamstring growth then rdls' will likely trump regular deads. If you're talking 'gh production' or other assorted unnoticeable claims then you're right....I love deadlifts. I am actually still working on my form as well. That said, unless you are planning on competing in a PL competition, they are certainly not necessary. You can get the posterior chain firing from a myriad of different movements (many already mentioned).
People that are into the 3 big lifts love to use "bang for your buck" cliche. There might be some truth in that for some. Not so much for others. What are your goals? What do you enjoy? As you mentioned, is injury a concern? Etc. Etc.
the two best posts in the thread0 -
You realize rows, chin ups, squats and rdls are all compound lifts too? I'll ask you what I asked the other person, what definable 'bang for your buck' does a deadlift have that these others don't have? Do you understand that being able to do a lift properly give you way more 'bang for your buck' than a lift you can't do?
The dogma on this forum is so backwards at times.
You sound like a pretty knowledgeable guy, so I'm confused as to why you are so hell bent on bashing Deadlifts?
Simply stated, Deadlifts and Barbell Squats are the 2 best lifts because they work 1/3+ of the muscles in your body. Rows & Chin Ups don't even come close to this. Row, Chin Ups, and RDLs are considered by most to be "accessory lifts" for a reason.
That said if one is not able to perform a lift properly then they need to learn how to do so and not give up and blow off the lift. I do not believe that the OP "can't do" a Deadlift. In my experiences I've never met someone, with proper coaching, who can't Deadlift. Curious if the OP isn't lifting 135lbs, does she have the barbell properly elevated off the floor? Just a hunch, but I bet that's the issue. All the OP needs to do is post a video and there's many people here, myself included, who could correct her form
Firstly thanks, and thanks for engaging with the issue without appeals to indefinables.
I'm not bashing deadlifts, but I think they are overrated for the non-competitive trainee, I think they are the most difficult lift to recover from, and I think they are deceptively simple to learn but awfully hard to master which leads many people to injure themselves.
You say yourself that people with proper coaching can do the deadlift but the op is asking on a forum for advice and is not receiving coaching, so straight away I would ask you if you think they are going to get the best help possible? By your own advice the answer is no.
While deadlifts do have obvious training benefits, doing rows, chins and rdls takes less time to learn and progress on, meaning that they do in fact provide more 'bang for your buck' than poorly performed deadlifts that a person is finding hard to learn. Of course I agree that with proper coaching deads are useful, but as that is not part of the equation here I think erring on the side of simplicity and effectiveness is best.0 -
You realize rows, chin ups, squats and rdls are all compound lifts too? I'll ask you what I asked the other person, what definable 'bang for your buck' does a deadlift have that these others don't have? Do you understand that being able to do a lift properly give you way more 'bang for your buck' than a lift you can't do?
The dogma on this forum is so backwards at times.
You sound like a pretty knowledgeable guy, so I'm confused as to why you are so hell bent on bashing Deadlifts?
Simply stated, Deadlifts and Barbell Squats are the 2 best lifts because they work 1/3+ of the muscles in your body. Rows & Chin Ups don't even come close to this. Row, Chin Ups, and RDLs are considered by most to be "accessory lifts" for a reason.
That said if one is not able to perform a lift properly then they need to learn how to do so and not give up and blow off the lift. I do not believe that the OP "can't do" a Deadlift. In my experiences I've never met someone, with proper coaching, who can't Deadlift. Curious if the OP isn't lifting 135lbs, does she have the barbell properly elevated off the floor? Just a hunch, but I bet that's the issue. All the OP needs to do is post a video and there's many people here, myself included, who could correct her form
Firstly thanks, and thanks for engaging with the issue without appeals to indefinables.
I'm not bashing deadlifts, but I think they are overrated for the non-competitive trainee, I think they are the most difficult lift to recover from, and I think they are deceptively simple to learn but awfully hard to master which leads many people to injure themselves.
You say yourself that people with proper coaching can do the deadlift but the op is asking on a forum for advice and is not receiving coaching, so straight away I would ask you if you think they are going to get the best help possible? By your own advice the answer is no.
While deadlifts do have obvious training benefits, doing rows, chins and rdls takes less time to learn and progress on, meaning that they do in fact provide more 'bang for your buck' than poorly performed deadlifts that a person is finding hard to learn. Of course I agree that with proper coaching deads are useful, but as that is not part of the equation here I think erring on the side of simplicity and effectiveness is best.
what about the clear and obvious benefit of simply learning how to pick things up properly in real day to day life???
A bag of dog food can be 50 pounds- I pick that up with the same set up as I pick up a bar (well without a bar). I'm just not sure I see the trade off to a quick substitute instead of learning how to properly pick up something.0 -
what about the clear and obvious benefit of simply learning how to pick things up properly in real day to day life???
A bag of dog food can be 50 pounds- I pick that up with the same set up as I pick up a bar (well without a bar). I'm just not sure I see the trade off to a quick substitute instead of learning how to properly pick up something.
Do you think if a person can do a barbell row with 50 pounds or more they will be unable to lift a 50 pound bag? How about if they're doing rdl's with more than twice that weight?
Objectively speaking you don't use the same form for a bag as a bar - film yourself next time if you are unsure.
If you just want real life training why not only pick up bags? Get that functional training bang for your buck dawg.
You were wrong about compound lifts btw, it means a lift where more than one joint is moving and more than one muscle group is engaged. Chins rows and rdls certainly count.0 -
what about the clear and obvious benefit of simply learning how to pick things up properly in real day to day life???
A bag of dog food can be 50 pounds- I pick that up with the same set up as I pick up a bar (well without a bar). I'm just not sure I see the trade off to a quick substitute instead of learning how to properly pick up something.
Do you think if a person can do a barbell row with 50 pounds or more they will be unable to lift a 50 pound bag? How about if they're doing rdl's with more than twice that weight?
Objectively speaking you don't use the same form for a bag as a bar - film yourself next time if you are unsure.
If you just want real life training why not only pick up bags? Get that functional training bang for your buck dawg.
You were wrong about compound lifts btw, it means a lift where more than one joint is moving and more than one muscle group is engaged. Chins rows and rdls certainly count.
I do pick them up the same way - only more of a snatch grip. But set up is the same.- I pick up all things off the floor from either an ATG squat or a DL set up- on purpose. work mobility and improve my set up for my lifts. even grocery bags.
And objectively speaking- I'm training for a power lifting competition- so picking up dog food bags isn't going to help me.
My point remains a valid one. And someone who can't be bothered to learn a traditional DL I don't forsee having much luck pulling big numbers with a barbell row- I've seen more people get drug over and or pull their back with a heavy barbell row than a DL.
and what's a chin row???
but yet if I say- learn compound lifts... everyone else who speaks lifting knows I mean squat- bench- OHP and DL.You were wrong about compound lifts btw, it means a lift where more than one joint is moving and more than one muscle group is engaged. Chins rows and rdls certainly count.
why is that?0
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