Ketogenic diets

As someone who has followed Atkins on and off for the past decade, I'm a fan of keto-style diets. When I was only dieting, Atkins provided fairly easy to follow guidelines that left my feeling satisfied at the end of the day, and I was able to lose 30 to 40 lbs at a stretch. However, since I wasn't exercising or counting calories, it was easy to get bored and fall off the wagon. Now that I'm eating good foods, exercising, and logging calories, I'm confident I'll hit my goal weight in another 3 months or so.

I have PCOS as well, and have found that LC/HF diets (not unlike Keto, but I haven't specifically sought out being in Ketosis) work very, very well. I actually just got my insulin number back after having let too many carbs in general and too much sugar back in, and it's higher now than when I was low carb, but hadn't yet started Metformin (and that's with the maximum dose). With LC/HF + Metformin, my insulin was down to 12, from 18/19. When my insulin gets that high (and I'm guessing the limit is around 15 for me), I stop losing weight, but when it's down under my cutoff, I can lose weight without much effort, and have lost somewhere around 20lb with the combination of LC/HF and Metformin since I started it again late last summer.

I've found it to be the most sustainable of diets, as well, because the lower carb and no sugar drastically reduces carb cravings, and basing meals around fat and protein allow me to eat less food and feel satiated (making staying in a deficit very easy). And yes, it's a lifestyle change, if I didn't think that before today's doctor appointment, I certainly do now. My body can't handle a lot in the way of sugar and starchy carbs, as it so readily demonstrated, so I'll be maintaining it for the foreseeable future.

And no, nutritional Ketosis is not dangerous. Ketoacidosis is, but that's the Keto version of hyperglycemia and generally only happens in situations where the body's ability to make insulin is deficient or shut down, such as in Type I and some Type II Diabetics, and even in those cases, it's quite rare (there are quite a number of Type I Diabetics who use a Ketogenic diet to minimize the amount of insulin they have to take, and are very successful on it).

Ketosis does happen in states of fasting, so yes, you'd be in Ketosis during your fast periods if you intermittent fast. However, Ketogenic diets are intended to keep you in that state of Ketosis, even after meals.

Here are some tips, though:

1. Give it no less than a month before declaring failure. Low carb and very low carb diets have an induction period of up to two weeks (depending on the number and type of carbs you were eating previously, as well as how your body reacts to said carbs). During it, you will feel like crap. This is known as "keto flu" or "carb flu," because of its flu like symptoms. They will go away, however, and you'll start feeling better after a couple of weeks. Too many people, though, will try it for a week, feel miserable, and stop, declaring it an utter failure. Keto doesn't work like that.

2. Don't fear fat. If you want Keto to be a success, you absolutely must learn to eat fat. Low carb, low fat, high protein diets are a recipe for failure usually, is not a ketogenic diet, and can be downright dangerous if not carefully monitored by someone who knows what they're doing (see also: rabbit starvation). Carbs and fat are fuel, and fat is required for nutrient absorption and hormone regulation. It is also the cornerstone of the successful ketogenic diet, because it is what satiates us and it becomes the primary fuel source. Ketones, after all, are the byproduct of burning fat.

3. Don't worry about calorie deficit during the induction period. The induction period is stressful enough on your body, I don't recommend adding to it by enforcing a calorie restriction. Eat enough food to feel satisfied and learn how to navigate the diet, then once you've gotten through the induction phase, you can make sure you're not eating too much. Additionally, the ketogenic diet usually has the opposite effect on people -- you end up having to track to make sure you're eating enough food. Eating fat often feels like you're eating 5000 calories when you're actually only eating something like 1200.

Hi everyone,
Thanks to the OP for creating this thread. I have PCOS and my endocrinologist has set me a challenge of dropping circa 60lbs by my appoinment in November (Nov 26th to be exact). I have been asked to eat very low cal (800-1000 cals) which I really am struggling with. I am wondering if a keto diet would be useful to me. I have insulin-resistant PCOS, so I think I am going to do some more research into ketogenic eating and see if it is worth a go. I really need to kick this PCOS. My husband and I would like to start a family in the not too distant future, so I am really keen to kick the PCOS to the kerb.
Feel free to add me
Clare

Personally, I think it's because of my vasectomy, instead.

Is she not aware that you had one? :laugh:

She has no idea, she just thought it was a weird and temporary fetish when I walked around with bags of frozen peas in my shorts for three days after. Still, it should prove a literally different point when she finally does get knocked up! :drinker: Keto, yay!

I have PCOS as well, and have found that LC/HF diets (not unlike Keto, but I haven't specifically sought out being in Ketosis) work very, very well. I actually just got my insulin number back after having let too many carbs in general and too much sugar back in, and it's higher now than when I was low carb, but hadn't yet started Metformin (and that's with the maximum dose). With LC/HF + Metformin, my insulin was down to 12, from 18/19. When my insulin gets that high (and I'm guessing the limit is around 15 for me), I stop losing weight, but when it's down under my cutoff, I can lose weight without much effort, and have lost somewhere around 20lb with the combination of LC/HF and Metformin since I started it again late last summer.

I've found it to be the most sustainable of diets, as well, because the lower carb and no sugar drastically reduces carb cravings, and basing meals around fat and protein allow me to eat less food and feel satiated (making staying in a deficit very easy). And yes, it's a lifestyle change, if I didn't think that before today's doctor appointment, I certainly do now. My body can't handle a lot in the way of sugar and starchy carbs, as it so readily demonstrated, so I'll be maintaining it for the foreseeable future.

And no, nutritional Ketosis is not dangerous. Ketoacidosis is, but that's the Keto version of hyperglycemia and generally only happens in situations where the body's ability to make insulin is deficient or shut down, such as in Type I and some Type II Diabetics, and even in those cases, it's quite rare (there are quite a number of Type I Diabetics who use a Ketogenic diet to minimize the amount of insulin they have to take, and are very successful on it).

Ketosis does happen in states of fasting, so yes, you'd be in Ketosis during your fast periods if you intermittent fast. However, Ketogenic diets are intended to keep you in that state of Ketosis, even after meals.

Here are some tips, though:

1. Give it no less than a month before declaring failure. Low carb and very low carb diets have an induction period of up to two weeks (depending on the number and type of carbs you were eating previously, as well as how your body reacts to said carbs). During it, you will feel like crap. This is known as "keto flu" or "carb flu," because of its flu like symptoms. They will go away, however, and you'll start feeling better after a couple of weeks. Too many people, though, will try it for a week, feel miserable, and stop, declaring it an utter failure. Keto doesn't work like that.

2. Don't fear fat. If you want Keto to be a success, you absolutely must learn to eat fat. Low carb, low fat, high protein diets are a recipe for failure usually, is not a ketogenic diet, and can be downright dangerous if not carefully monitored by someone who knows what they're doing (see also: rabbit starvation). Carbs and fat are fuel, and fat is required for nutrient absorption and hormone regulation. It is also the cornerstone of the successful ketogenic diet, because it is what satiates us and it becomes the primary fuel source. Ketones, after all, are the byproduct of burning fat.

3. Don't worry about calorie deficit during the induction period. The induction period is stressful enough on your body, I don't recommend adding to it by enforcing a calorie restriction. Eat enough food to feel satisfied and learn how to navigate the diet, then once you've gotten through the induction phase, you can make sure you're not eating too much. Additionally, the ketogenic diet usually has the opposite effect on people -- you end up having to track to make sure you're eating enough food. Eating fat often feels like you're eating 5000 calories when you're actually only eating something like 1200.

YOU. I like you.

Cool, hope it works. Im on Raspberry Ketone and Detox Colon Cleanse. I used it few times but im going to start this week, just had two today and keep having them, hope i loose quick but exercise and try eat healthy too then hope it does work x

I will try to be as respectful as possible here....You do realize that Raspberry ketones do NOTHING for you at all.....and a detox colon cleanse? Why not just eat more fiber? And if you say it is to get rid of toxins please explain these toxins and why your liver is not getting rid of them....as that is the livers function, is it not?

Then why on Ebay reviews and Amazon, most of them say it works and it helped them loose weight after 3-4 weeks. Some said lost 1 stone in 3 weeks and other says 9lb in 2 weeks. It does work if you eat healthy and do exercise while you have them. I've notice i lost abit since i've been having them. Im still having the tablets for a month or few weeks

I had heard somewhere that being in ketosis was dangerous.

That's keto-acidosis where very high levels of ketones (several times what you get by dieting) combined with high blood sugar and insulin can lead to a metabolic crisis with low blood pH. This is a complication of Type 1 diabetes, and not an issue with nutritional ketosis.

Ketosis is the natural way of fuelling the brain in the absence of carbohydrate intake, during a famine for example (historically).

I'm not sure Metformin affects BMR. A quick scan of the lit. provides at least one study that shows not change (see graph and discussion.)

http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/701/art%3A10.1007%2Fs001250051172.pdf?auth66=1402060987_6f305b242fc75207a67cf5c4daa6a00b&ext=.pdf

It suggests it is due to satiety.
Would suggest a more complete review, maybe later in the week I might have a moment.

Because when I just restricted my calories I was hungry ALL THE TIME. I never felt satisfied. Following the ketogenic diet, I feel more satisfied and full. I am just not as hungry. When I solely restricted my calories, I felt the need to cheat all the time, and I found myself binge eating a lot. My weight fluctuated constantly, and with keto my weight is consistent as hell. It just works for me.

This is also why I find it quite sustainable, well...that and a T2D dx :blushing:

I've been on keto for coming up on two years and I've lost over 85lbs in the process. Once I became keto adapted (about 4 weeks in) I had never felt better. So much energy, no bloat, no carb crashes, rarely ever feel hungry, etc. All this even when I was 250+lbs. Two years later I'm still losing (much slower now but it's not a race) and still feel amazing. Water is key when you're in ketosis so make sure you're drinking 96oz a day.

JoRocka wrote: »

One side note... it's far harder to "cheat" in Keto.

On Primal you could be all like "It's 80/20" and still be a legitimate Primal eater, but in Keto, once your blood meter or Keto stick says "0" you're officially kicked out of the keto club for a couple weeks until your body produces Ketones again.

So... it's really hard to cheat.

interesting- I have seen people talk about fluxing in and out of keto over the course of a few days- which always raised my eyebrows- I was under the impression it took a little while to GET to keto- and it was as you say, once your out it takes time to get back to it.

have you been checking the keto sticks to confirm??

You can pop in and out of ketosis, but to be fully fat-adapted is what takes weeks, and that is what you lose when you go too high on the carbs.

As for keto sticks, meh. They are only good at the beginning, when you spill excess ketones into your urine. Once you are properly fat-adapted, keto strips will actually give you a negative.

JoRocka wrote: »

One side note... it's far harder to "cheat" in Keto.

On Primal you could be all like "It's 80/20" and still be a legitimate Primal eater, but in Keto, once your blood meter or Keto stick says "0" you're officially kicked out of the keto club for a couple weeks until your body produces Ketones again.

So... it's really hard to cheat.

interesting- I have seen people talk about fluxing in and out of keto over the course of a few days- which always raised my eyebrows- I was under the impression it took a little while to GET to keto- and it was as you say, once your out it takes time to get back to it.

have you been checking the keto sticks to confirm??

I've gone off and gotten back into ketosis within a couple of days. Cyclical keto.

Dragonwolf wrote: »

I have PCOS as well, and have found that LC/HF diets (not unlike Keto, but I haven't specifically sought out being in Ketosis) work very, very well. I actually just got my insulin number back after having let too many carbs in general and too much sugar back in, and it's higher now than when I was low carb, but hadn't yet started Metformin (and that's with the maximum dose). With LC/HF + Metformin, my insulin was down to 12, from 18/19. When my insulin gets that high (and I'm guessing the limit is around 15 for me), I stop losing weight, but when it's down under my cutoff, I can lose weight without much effort, and have lost somewhere around 20lb with the combination of LC/HF and Metformin since I started it again late last summer.

I've found it to be the most sustainable of diets, as well, because the lower carb and no sugar drastically reduces carb cravings, and basing meals around fat and protein allow me to eat less food and feel satiated (making staying in a deficit very easy). And yes, it's a lifestyle change, if I didn't think that before today's doctor appointment, I certainly do now. My body can't handle a lot in the way of sugar and starchy carbs, as it so readily demonstrated, so I'll be maintaining it for the foreseeable future.

And no, nutritional Ketosis is not dangerous. Ketoacidosis is, but that's the Keto version of hyperglycemia and generally only happens in situations where the body's ability to make insulin is deficient or shut down, such as in Type I and some Type II Diabetics, and even in those cases, it's quite rare (there are quite a number of Type I Diabetics who use a Ketogenic diet to minimize the amount of insulin they have to take, and are very successful on it).

Ketosis does happen in states of fasting, so yes, you'd be in Ketosis during your fast periods if you intermittent fast. However, Ketogenic diets are intended to keep you in that state of Ketosis, even after meals.

Here are some tips, though:

1. Give it no less than a month before declaring failure. Low carb and very low carb diets have an induction period of up to two weeks (depending on the number and type of carbs you were eating previously, as well as how your body reacts to said carbs). During it, you will feel like crap. This is known as "keto flu" or "carb flu," because of its flu like symptoms. They will go away, however, and you'll start feeling better after a couple of weeks. Too many people, though, will try it for a week, feel miserable, and stop, declaring it an utter failure. Keto doesn't work like that.

2. Don't fear fat. If you want Keto to be a success, you absolutely must learn to eat fat. Low carb, low fat, high protein diets are a recipe for failure usually, is not a ketogenic diet, and can be downright dangerous if not carefully monitored by someone who knows what they're doing (see also: rabbit starvation). Carbs and fat are fuel, and fat is required for nutrient absorption and hormone regulation. It is also the cornerstone of the successful ketogenic diet, because it is what satiates us and it becomes the primary fuel source. Ketones, after all, are the byproduct of burning fat.

3. Don't worry about calorie deficit during the induction period. The induction period is stressful enough on your body, I don't recommend adding to it by enforcing a calorie restriction. Eat enough food to feel satisfied and learn how to navigate the diet, then once you've gotten through the induction phase, you can make sure you're not eating too much. Additionally, the ketogenic diet usually has the opposite effect on people -- you end up having to track to make sure you're eating enough food. Eating fat often feels like you're eating 5000 calories when you're actually only eating something like 1200.

+1

Now I don't have to type!