Extra calories on lifting days?
CleanBulking
Posts: 12 Member
Hi!
I just signed up here yesterday. I'm trying to gain about 15 lbs of muscle (and hopefully no fat) so I'm tracking my food here to clean up my diet and make sure that I am eating enough good food. I understand not adding extra calories for lifting if you're trying to drop weight, but that doesn't seem logical to me since I'm trying to gain.
I lift for 40-50 minutes MWF following the Texas Method and run about 40 minutes on one or two other days of the week. MFP gave me 830 extra calories for my 5.3 mile run yesterday, but nothing for my heavy lifting session today. I don't want to hinder my gains by not eating enough on lifting days. Would it be reasonable to conservatively add 400 calories (about half of my run calories) to my target on those days?
Thanks!
I just signed up here yesterday. I'm trying to gain about 15 lbs of muscle (and hopefully no fat) so I'm tracking my food here to clean up my diet and make sure that I am eating enough good food. I understand not adding extra calories for lifting if you're trying to drop weight, but that doesn't seem logical to me since I'm trying to gain.
I lift for 40-50 minutes MWF following the Texas Method and run about 40 minutes on one or two other days of the week. MFP gave me 830 extra calories for my 5.3 mile run yesterday, but nothing for my heavy lifting session today. I don't want to hinder my gains by not eating enough on lifting days. Would it be reasonable to conservatively add 400 calories (about half of my run calories) to my target on those days?
Thanks!
0
Replies
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well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.0 -
Why are you running if you are bulking?0
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You are correct that in order to gain muscle you will need to be in a calorie surplus. From a standpoint of body composition, it doesn't matter if you eat more on the days you lift. More importantly is the amount of calories you get over a period of time, say a week. but if eating more on lifting days and less days helps you in terms of energy or whatever else then by all means go ahead. So it's personal preference really0
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Hi!
I just signed up here yesterday. I'm trying to gain about 15 lbs of muscle (and hopefully no fat) so I'm tracking my food here to clean up my diet and make sure that I am eating enough good food. I understand not adding extra calories for lifting if you're trying to drop weight, but that doesn't seem logical to me since I'm trying to gain.
I lift for 40-50 minutes MWF following the Texas Method and run about 40 minutes on one or two other days of the week. MFP gave me 830 extra calories for my 5.3 mile run yesterday, but nothing for my heavy lifting session today. I don't want to hinder my gains by not eating enough on lifting days. Would it be reasonable to conservatively add 400 calories (about half of my run calories) to my target on those days?
Thanks!
Wow, if you are trying to bulk and running I suggest 20 minutes of hitt a couple times a week that's it; none of this 5+ mile crap, all that is doing is making you need more calories and taking away for the needed recovery of said muscle in order for them to grow.0 -
Why are you running if you are bulking?
I'm running just to maintain cardio fitness so I can keep up with my kids.0 -
Why are you running if you are bulking?
I'm running just to maintain cardio fitness so I can keep up with my kids.
2x20min HIIT/week then, more energy for the kids and less time working out and more recovery time for muscles to grow0 -
there is a website called "If It Fits Your Macros"....google it and check it out. It has a calculator for bulking (gaining muscle) and cutting (losing fat).0
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well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.
JoRocka,
I know I will gain some fat, but I want to minimize that since I have enough fat already. My work gives free annual health screenings in May where they measure your weight, bodyfat, bmi. From 2013 to 2014, I gained 5.5 lbs and lost 0.5 lb of fat. I know 5.5 lbs in a year isn't much, but I wasn't consistent at all with my diet and exercise since my wife had a baby in December.
Lifting for strength is priority over running for me now. I used to run 6 days a week training for marathons so 1 or 2 short runs a week isn't that much.
I don't know my maintenance level for calories. MFP said I should be eating 2630 calories/day, I chose the gain 0.5 lb/wk option.
Thanks for all the tips. Purposely bulking is completely new to me so you gave me a lot to ponder.0 -
there is a website called "If It Fits Your Macros"....google it and check it out. It has a calculator for bulking (gaining muscle) and cutting (losing fat).
Thanks! I'll check it out.0 -
Why are you running if you are bulking?
I'm running just to maintain cardio fitness so I can keep up with my kids.
Right now, even though I am on a "cut"
My cardio is light.
2 x a week....~45 min.
Stair master and elliptical.0 -
JoRocka,
I know I will gain some fat, but I want to minimize that since I have enough fat already. My work gives free annual health screenings in May where they measure your weight, bodyfat, bmi. From 2013 to 2014, I gained 5.5 lbs and lost 0.5 lb of fat. I know 5.5 lbs in a year isn't much, but I wasn't consistent at all with my diet and exercise since my wife had a baby in December.
Lifting for strength is priority over running for me now. I used to run 6 days a week training for marathons so 1 or 2 short runs a week isn't that much.
I don't know my maintenance level for calories. MFP said I should be eating 2630 calories/day, I chose the gain 0.5 lb/wk option.
Thanks for all the tips. Purposely bulking is completely new to me so you gave me a lot to ponder.
Any idea what your BF% is??
Cause I don't know that bulking is needed or should be done if you are over ~18% BF0 -
JoRocka,
I know I will gain some fat, but I want to minimize that since I have enough fat already. My work gives free annual health screenings in May where they measure your weight, bodyfat, bmi. From 2013 to 2014, I gained 5.5 lbs and lost 0.5 lb of fat. I know 5.5 lbs in a year isn't much, but I wasn't consistent at all with my diet and exercise since my wife had a baby in December.
Lifting for strength is priority over running for me now. I used to run 6 days a week training for marathons so 1 or 2 short runs a week isn't that much.
I don't know my maintenance level for calories. MFP said I should be eating 2630 calories/day, I chose the gain 0.5 lb/wk option.
Thanks for all the tips. Purposely bulking is completely new to me so you gave me a lot to ponder.
Any idea what your BF% is??
Cause I don't know that bulking is needed or should be done if you are over ~18% BF
According to the health screening, I'm 15.4% @ 200 lbs.0 -
well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.
JoRocka,
I know I will gain some fat, but I want to minimize that since I have enough fat already. My work gives free annual health screenings in May where they measure your weight, bodyfat, bmi. From 2013 to 2014, I gained 5.5 lbs and lost 0.5 lb of fat. I know 5.5 lbs in a year isn't much, but I wasn't consistent at all with my diet and exercise since my wife had a baby in December.
Lifting for strength is priority over running for me now. I used to run 6 days a week training for marathons so 1 or 2 short runs a week isn't that much.
I don't know my maintenance level for calories. MFP said I should be eating 2630 calories/day, I chose the gain 0.5 lb/wk option.
Thanks for all the tips. Purposely bulking is completely new to me so you gave me a lot to ponder.
The MFP system was designed mainly for weight loss. For gain you want to use a TDEE system.
Put together a workout regimen that is consistent from week to week, where the amount of cardio you do (which should be minimal) and the amount of lifting you do does not vary from one week to the next. Use one of the many TDEE calculators out to figure your actual calorie requirements based on that schedule. Accept the fact that, BEST case scenario, only about 30% of the weight you gain will actually be muscle. And that's being optimistic.0 -
then bulking is prolly fine for you....
Just track and monitor.
Don't go crazy.
0 -
[/quote]
The MFP system was designed mainly for weight loss. For gain you want to use a TDEE system.
[/quote]
I'm curious as to why you think this. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just curious.0 -
You can manipulate the macros and calories in MFP to work with your TDEE and goals for either weight loss or gain.
The MFP system was designed mainly for weight loss. For gain you want to use a TDEE system.0 -
Wouldn't that make the Mfp system better than tdee?0
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How do you know OP can't add 15 lbs of muscle? Do you know his / her age, background or anything about them? Why do you think clean bulking is a waste of time? I disagree with that totally except for brand new beginner lifters who are very skinny. I would only recommend a 'dirty' bulk for teens or very skinny newbs.well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.0 -
well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.
JoRocka,
I know I will gain some fat, but I want to minimize that since I have enough fat already. My work gives free annual health screenings in May where they measure your weight, bodyfat, bmi. From 2013 to 2014, I gained 5.5 lbs and lost 0.5 lb of fat. I know 5.5 lbs in a year isn't much, but I wasn't consistent at all with my diet and exercise since my wife had a baby in December.
Lifting for strength is priority over running for me now. I used to run 6 days a week training for marathons so 1 or 2 short runs a week isn't that much.
I don't know my maintenance level for calories. MFP said I should be eating 2630 calories/day, I chose the gain 0.5 lb/wk option.
Thanks for all the tips. Purposely bulking is completely new to me so you gave me a lot to ponder.
The MFP system was designed mainly for weight loss. For gain you want to use a TDEE system.
Put together a workout regimen that is consistent from week to week, where the amount of cardio you do (which should be minimal) and the amount of lifting you do does not vary from one week to the next. Use one of the many TDEE calculators out to figure your actual calorie requirements based on that schedule. Accept the fact that, BEST case scenario, only about 30% of the weight you gain will actually be muscle. And that's being optimistic.
My workout program has very been consistent over the last 3 months. I lift heavy 3 days a week, run once and do a barbell complex once. Weekends are for yardwork and kids.
The calculator on IIFYM gave me a TDEE of 3019 calories and a text book 10% bulk at 3321 calories.0 -
How do you know OP can't add 15 lbs of muscle? Do you know his / her age, background or anything about them? Why do you think clean bulking is a waste of time? I disagree with that totally except for brand new beginner lifters who are very skinny. I would only recommend a 'dirty' bulk for teens or very skinny newbs.well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.
She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].0 -
Wouldn't that make the Mfp system better than tdee?
Use MFP but customize the numbers manually based on TDEE. MFP gives you generic macros which might not fit what you're trying to do - ie. you might want to do lower carbs than MFP recommneds and then you can adjust the numbers rather than the cookie cutter numbers MFP automatically sets.0 -
That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.
She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].0 -
That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.
She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
Sorry for being unclear. I was thinking of it taking at least a year to gain the 15 lbs. I'm 30 so very little chance of getting taller at this point!0 -
Wouldn't that make the Mfp system better than tdee?
Use MFP but customize the numbers manually based on TDEE. MFP gives you generic macros which might not fit what you're trying to do - ie. you might want to do lower carbs than MFP recommneds and then you can adjust the numbers rather than the cookie cutter numbers MFP automatically sets.
Well yeah, the mfp marco %'s are wrong and imho a dumb way to calculate macros. But what about using TDEE vs daily is better? I'm just starting out, and not ready to bulk yet, but I would think that daily would be better just because you can adjust for extra/less calorie burn.0 -
That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.
She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
A teenager that needs to do cardio to keep with their kids and has yard work? I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely.
ETA: And whose profile says they are a 30yr old male.0 -
That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.
She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
Sorry for being unclear. I was thinking of it taking at least a year to gain the 15 lbs. I'm 30 so very little chance of getting taller at this point!
If the 30% number above is correct, then you'd have to gain 50lbs to gain 15 of muscle. For a year, that's a little more than 4 pounds a month. That's almost a pound a week, or an extra 515ish calories a day.0 -
How do you know OP can't add 15 lbs of muscle? Do you know his / her age, background or anything about them? Why do you think clean bulking is a waste of time? I disagree with that totally except for brand new beginner lifters who are very skinny. I would only recommend a 'dirty' bulk for teens or very skinny newbs.well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintenance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintenance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.
I feel like you're trying to argue semantics just for the sake of arguing. You and I both know recomp is horribly slow and inefficient and bulking will come with fat gains outside of a few exceptions. It's not a good idea to perpetuate the thought that you can gain a great deal of muscle without gaining some fat. I'ts a reality- if you want to gain appreciable muscle- you're going to need to fuel and eat at a surplus- and that will come with fat gains.
You're right- if he is a teen- he is going to have great gains with minimal fat. But the reality is muscle growth is hard and requires fat gain with few exceptions. But he's not. so stop picking.
as far as the clean thing- first of all I don't believe in clean/dirty food. Therefor I do not ascribe those adjectives to bulking or cutting... and traditionally
Clean bulk =/= eating chicken and broccoli none stop and "clean".
it means this:
Clean bulk = min/moderate surplus trying to maximize muscle with minimal muscle gains.
dirty bulk = huge surplus- little to no regard to fat gains. Most people rarely go this route.
Specifically why do I think its' a waste? because calories are king- get your macros close and just fill out your day to hit calories. Perfect macros mean absolutely diddley if you don't go over maintenance.
gummy bears- pb and j- milk- pizza- sushi with oodles of rice- ice cream- bagels- cheese- what ever it takes to round out your day and not leave you feeling like you can't eat for the next three weeks.
Calorie dense- low volume foods are great for bulking.
I'm not wrong- could I have been more clear? sure- but I'm not wrong. You're arguing just to argue- it's the end of the week on a Friday- no need for attitude. Want to round out my day without an internet fight- just a waste of time and doesn't help anyone- just want to get my lifts on and do some running and throw back some beersies.0 -
I didn't look deep into OP's background but just saying it's possible under certain circumstances. Maybe not for OP but in the right circumstances it is.
That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.
She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
A teenager that needs to do cardio to keep with their kids and has yard work? I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely.
ETA: And whose profile says they are a 30yr old male.0 -
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OP.
I use a variation on the TDEE method- I do it like MFP does it- but I calculate my own numbers and plug it in myself manually.
So I went and did 3-4 TDEE calculators- set it at sedentary- take an average of those... for me it's 1900.
Then for bulking- I added 3-500 calories on that.
My goal right now is 1600 calories.
I then add portion of my workouts in to MFP to give me eat back calories.
When I'm bulking- I eat back ALL calories.
When I'm cutting- I eat back 50-75% of my calories- gives me some buffer room to make sure I stay in a deficit.
Although- it seems not many people do this because it seems a bit much for people because it's to fussy.
I like it because I can control it- I am a dancer and a lifter- and being that not all workouts are created equal- I like having the power to enter them based on perceived rate of effort not just that my lift was 2 hours long.
so what you really need to know after all that:
lift progressively
eat above maintenance at a 3-500 calorie surplus.
eat big- lift big.
get all the gainz.0
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