Attractiveness and Weight - research & BMI
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OP, I totally get the humor of your post so no butthurt here I promise.Bmi = lousy for individual evaluations and very good as a correlation to bodyfat across average populations. Which both Sara and side steel will confirm.
I would have agreed with this statement last week, this post on another thread has made me call that in to question however.
The National Institutes of Heath did a study called: Accuracy of Body Mass Index to Diagnose Obesity In the US Adult Population
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877506/
Now I admittedly haven't done much research in this field, but um yea, those numbers look a little questionable to me.
I like you - esp after the mean people thread du jour - but, you are also missing the point of the original post.... Which is that attractiveness is somewhat irrelevant to weight/BMI/bf%/ etc. - that there are men who find every body shape or type of women attractive.
Also, on the women's chart under 60 yrs of age) it looks like actual bf% well exceeded BMI - so the study he posted should in fact be quite valid :flowerforyou:0 -
Amber, if you look at the R^2 values for women under 60 (which was the population for the visuals for the research) the correlation at 0.73 is pretty high ( with very low p values ). T
You'll notice that:
A) not a single women in that scatter plot has a bf% of 20 or lower with a BMI of 25 or higher.
my original post makes no mention about body fat or health. Yes. BMI is not a measure of fat or health. Not the point.
C) BMI is, by definition, a linear correlation of weight and if used in that sense. The title of my thread is attractiveness and weight and BMI includes a direct weight component.0 -
I carry my weight in my butt/hips and boobs and have a high BMI. I'm married so I don't go out without my husband very much but recently I've gone out with a friend of mine and was surprised that several men were flirting with me. I wonder if I carried my weight in my belly, arms and face if this would be the case?
I also want to know what the demographics of those that participated in this study. I've noticed certain groups of people are are attracted to heavier women than others.0 -
My formatting probably caused an issue. That study was *only* in response to the poster saying BMI is a good correlation to body fat%, I was just pointing out that I'm starting to question that. Eh, I don't generally consider an r-squared of 0.73 to be overly strong, and that's the only one that even comes close for providing a useful correlation.
Sorry, I questioned posting this to begin with, but thought given the audience some might find it interesting because it was for me. I placed it badly, but I wasn't at all upset or offended by the OP and wasn't really meaning to relate that particular study to the content of the OP.0 -
I feel like someone just shouted down tesla on electricity. Is this real life?0
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@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
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My formatting probably caused an issue. That study was *only* in response to the poster saying BMI is a good correlation to body fat%, I was just pointing out that I'm starting to question that. Eh, I don't generally consider an r-squared of 0.73 to be overly strong, and that's the only one that even comes close for providing a useful correlation.
Sorry, I questioned posting this to begin with, but thought given the audience some might find it interesting because it was for me. I placed it badly, but I wasn't at all upset or offended by the OP and wasn't really meaning to relate that particular study to the content of the OP.
It is interesting but consider that beyond the R-squared correlation what might be considered is predictive value. One would actually want to either look at the 95% Confidence Intervals (or PI's) or consider the correlation of BMI to clinical end points.
What I would consider interesting is: does this model predict what the fat% is likely to be for someone with a a specific BMI? We'd have to do a best fit non-linear equation and consider the CI. Like this:
That whole discussion if laid out here:
http://blog.minitab.com/blog/adventures-in-statistics/how-to-predict-with-minitab-using-bmi-to-predict-the-body-fat-percentage-part-2
Where I would see an interest in BMI as a clinical indicator is when it is evaluation to health end points (diabetes risk, heart attack) or life expectancy. For example, in research like this: http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/3/e000940.long
While BMI might not be a good goal indicator a 95% confidence interval in that research suggest as that if you are female, 40 and obese BMI the life expectancy is 3.4 years shorter than a normal BMI. Body fat% might have a better correlation to tighter confidence interval.
In any case, thanks for the article, will read it.0 -
:flowerforyou:0
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I feel like someone just shouted down tesla on electricity. Is this real life?
I'm sure it's just fantasy.0 -
@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
:laugh: :laugh:0 -
@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
I can't stop laughing at this post. Thank you for making my day with pure, unbridled cluelessness. It's a thing of beauty.0 -
@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
i award this flounce an 8.7. high marks for humor and top marks for difficulty, but was forced to deduct points because you forgot to ask DYEL of the OP.0 -
I feel like someone just shouted down tesla on electricity. Is this real life?
I'm sure it's just fantasy.
No escape from reality0 -
BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
In general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
LOL0 -
I don't know much about the topic per say but i do believe that a lot of woman are more prone to be thin for the judgement of other woman and not actually to attract men. I want to look good for my partner but in all honestly i want to look good at a weight that i think is attractive.
So i don't really think this study is going to change anything even if it is accurate haha.0 -
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@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
Oh my goodness, I am so glad that I caught this thread :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I don't know much about the topic per say but i do believe that a lot of woman are more prone to be thin for the judgement of other woman and not actually to attract men. I want to look good for my partner but in all honestly i want to look good at a weight that i think is attractive.
So i don't really think this study is going to change anything even if it is accurate haha.
I think (or hope) that most people have the goals that they have just because it is the way they personally enjoy their own body (for themselves, as well as perhaps in mutual enjoyment with their partner). Although, some people obviously do try to strive for a goal that isn't healthy for themselves for various misguided reasons.
I think the hope is that this study will help the ladies on here that post all those threads about what men find attractive (and then the thread turns into a bunch of upset people misunderstanding intentions and getting shocked and horrified, and insulting bodies and minds, and weird stuff like that).0
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