Attractiveness and Weight - research & BMI
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my main concern about the charts is the high number of people in the healthy BMI range whose body fat percentage is above 30. There are only a few women who have a body fat percentage in the healthy range and a BMI above 25... there are no women with a BMI above 30 who have a healthy body fat percentage.... so for women a BMI above 30 = you need to lose fat. BMI 25-30 = the majority of women with this BMI need to lose fat, there are a few exceptions (large framed strength athletes I'd guess... and if more women did strength training then IMO that number would be higher, and there are more men in this category, probably due to a combination of more men being into strength based sports and men being able to gain lean mass more easily than women)... but having a BMI in the 18-25 "healthy" range does NOT mean that you don't need to lose fat/improve your body composition, there are a LOT of people with 30+ body fat percentage in the healthy BMI range ... IMO that's the biggest flaw of BMI. All the people who are lulled into a false sense of security that they're healthy because of their weight, when actually their body fat percentage is above 30 which means they're carrying too much fat.... and it's the fat you're carrying that's the health risk, not how heavy you are. BMI applied with common sense should stop strength athletes being told to lose weight when they don't need to..... however, how is it going to diagnose all the people who have more than 30% body fat in the healthy BMI range?
That said, the use of BMI in a study such as the one the OP posted is not a bad choice. When comparing populations and general trends, BMI is a good metric, as the existence of both large framed and small framed people in the population will average each other out. And this debate about BMI is totally missing the point... the study shows that different men have different preferences... some prefer larger women, others prefer more slender women.... that's what the study is showing... no-one's diagnosing any of the study participants with obesity or saying they have to lose weight or anything....
Lol, first apologies *again* to the OP because it was not my intent to derail to this extent on a topic that I do think bears repeating.
Neandermagnon actually hit the point I was most concerned about with the article I added, which was the probability of a large number of women thinking they're at a healthy body fat when they quite possibly aren't. Although I also have some concerns about the skew towards the healthy end of that chart. I'm thinking in particular of a someone on my FL. She has a history of ED and uses BMI as a marker to help her maintain a healthy weight. I have very little experience with ED so I'm usually not comfortable advising her, but this chart made me immediately think of her because there's real reason for concern that she should NOT depend on BMI to establish that her weight is ok.....
Don't apologize. I expected this thread to get derailed from the first post. Possibly into a variety of discussions from fat acceptance to fat admirers, etc... I was not expecting the humorous hit and run and "educational moment" but given that - please continue to derail. I love your discussion and do see something of value there.
I agree with what you are writing here. BMI as a single indicator of health, etc.. isn't valid.
Is you friend using having a normal range BMI as a justification of ok weight in the presence of other clinical issues or is she using it as a first goal to get back to a more normal weight range? As a simplified initial goal, something that can be measured and achieved - it might not be a bad idea. As the only indicator that "all is good" it's a gross simplification.0 -
Uh. I was tracking with everything and had a grasp of where things were going ... Until ... Secondary sexual organ!?!?! I have never heard of this! How have womens kept that secret? Do I get acces like on our tenth anniversary or something??
Sorry, bad translation into English. The right word would be "secondary sex characteristics". I was not aware that the term was that misleading as to inspire several replies. Sorry for that
Silliness is all. I just didn't understand and realize (now) that the mammories would be considered such. I thought strictly in terms of genitals because even my inner scientist is a thirteen year old boy.
Long story short, I wasn't poking at you; was legitimately confused and mocking my own ignorance of the concept.
That's one of the things I love about men: The inner scientist of many of you is a thirteen year old boy.
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Am I reading it wrong, or does typical preference for the non-fat -admirer male peak at the usual catwalk model BMI?0
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Uh. I was tracking with everything and had a grasp of where things were going ... Until ... Secondary sexual organ!?!?! I have never heard of this! How have womens kept that secret? Do I get acces like on our tenth anniversary or something??
Sorry, bad translation into English. The right word would be "secondary sex characteristics". I was not aware that the term was that misleading as to inspire several replies. Sorry for that
Silliness is all. I just didn't understand and realize (now) that the mammories would be considered such. I thought strictly in terms of genitals because even my inner scientist is a thirteen year old boy.
Long story short, I wasn't poking at you; was legitimately confused and mocking my own ignorance of the concept.
I think we could move the discussion into attractiveness of hermaphrodite. Not sure the moderators would approve.
If we ever evolve into a self-pollinating hermaphrodite species (oh, look where your mind just went) males might still have a, albeit small, role.
Worms, lovely elegans, have < 1% males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1462001/pdf/11901116.pdf
(My inner 13 year old likes worms too).0 -
Well, according to the OP chart, I'm not very attractive. Bummer.0
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Am I reading it wrong, or does typical preference for the non-fat -admirer male peak at the usual catwalk model BMI?
In that control group, yeah - seems problematic, wouldn't you think?0 -
Am I reading it wrong, or does typical preference for the non-fat -admirer male peak at the usual catwalk model BMI?
In that control group, yeah - seems problematic, wouldn't you think?
Seems about what I would expect. So we look at the relatively small number of chubby chasers in the real world versus your control group and we know what we already knew about BMI and attraction. Thinner is generally regarded as more attractive. What we don't know is what is influenced by current society and how much comes from what men have evolved to like.0 -
Am I reading it wrong, or does typical preference for the non-fat -admirer male peak at the usual catwalk model BMI?
In that control group, yeah - seems problematic, wouldn't you think?
Female Olympic gymnasts are similar BMI. Quite fit. Solid musculature.
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Am I reading it wrong, or does typical preference for the non-fat -admirer male peak at the usual catwalk model BMI?
In that control group, yeah - seems problematic, wouldn't you think?
Female Olympic gymnasts are similar BMI. Quite fit. Solid musculature.
That would make an interesting study. I get the feeling the catwalk model composition would win out.0 -
Am I reading it wrong, or does typical preference for the non-fat -admirer male peak at the usual catwalk model BMI?
In that control group, yeah - seems problematic, wouldn't you think?
Female Olympic gymnasts are similar BMI. Quite fit. Solid musculature.
It's true. Like everyone is saying...BMI alone is only one part of the equation. It's not so much a goal, as just one aspect of a medical description. But, when individually meeting with a doctor, you will be addressed individually based on many factors to evaluate your own health. Not everyone should be the same BMI. It looks very different on different bodies, height is not the only factor. Most doctors will look at you, your musculature, and bone structure, as well as personal history, family history, health and test results.0 -
Uh. I was tracking with everything and had a grasp of where things were going ... Until ... Secondary sexual organ!?!?! I have never heard of this! How have womens kept that secret? Do I get acces like on our tenth anniversary or something??
Sorry, bad translation into English. The right word would be "secondary sex characteristics". I was not aware that the term was that misleading as to inspire several replies. Sorry for that
Silliness is all. I just didn't understand and realize (now) that the mammories would be considered such. I thought strictly in terms of genitals because even my inner scientist is a thirteen year old boy.
^^ This made me laugh out loud! I'm so glad I didn't have to explain to my co-workers!0 -
scatter plot of women :laugh:
is that like a gaggle of chicks?
:drinker:0 -
Meh, I'm fat, I'm ****in' adorable, funny, can cook like a pro (e.g. my hips), and am more physically capable than many of my thinner friends and family members. Like me, every man is an individual. Sure there are large swaths of heavy porn viewers who get obsessed with largely false ideals and the idea that their partners body is a reflection of their own worth...how sad for them! Methinks they will be spending a lot more time with Palmela Handerson than actually getting laid by the body types they falsely idolize, unless they manage to luck out and find a real women who is totes into anal bleaching and faking orgasms! lmfao! Ladies: let them be, you're not missing out on anything by not being "attractive" to these types of dudes, end the pity party and start worshiping your own damn body. Men: Don't project your preferences on other men, it's a sad sign of insecurity and immaturity. By all means, love what you love, but recognize that even if you land a smokin' hot super model you're gonna have to find more to love about her than her tight *kitten* and big knockers if you want to build a lasting, meaningful relationship because even the hottest of us get old and saggy...plus if you've never had sex with someone you truly loved and the feeling is reciprocal, you haven't lived!
Interesting chart OP, confirms my suspicion that men are people too. 0 -
my main concern about the charts is the high number of people in the healthy BMI range whose body fat percentage is above 30. There are only a few women who have a body fat percentage in the healthy range and a BMI above 25... there are no women with a BMI above 30 who have a healthy body fat percentage.... so for women a BMI above 30 = you need to lose fat. BMI 25-30 = the majority of women with this BMI need to lose fat, there are a few exceptions (large framed strength athletes I'd guess... and if more women did strength training then IMO that number would be higher, and there are more men in this category, probably due to a combination of more men being into strength based sports and men being able to gain lean mass more easily than women)... but having a BMI in the 18-25 "healthy" range does NOT mean that you don't need to lose fat/improve your body composition, there are a LOT of people with 30+ body fat percentage in the healthy BMI range ... IMO that's the biggest flaw of BMI. All the people who are lulled into a false sense of security that they're healthy because of their weight, when actually their body fat percentage is above 30 which means they're carrying too much fat.... and it's the fat you're carrying that's the health risk, not how heavy you are. BMI applied with common sense should stop strength athletes being told to lose weight when they don't need to..... however, how is it going to diagnose all the people who have more than 30% body fat in the healthy BMI range?
That said, the use of BMI in a study such as the one the OP posted is not a bad choice. When comparing populations and general trends, BMI is a good metric, as the existence of both large framed and small framed people in the population will average each other out. And this debate about BMI is totally missing the point... the study shows that different men have different preferences... some prefer larger women, others prefer more slender women.... that's what the study is showing... no-one's diagnosing any of the study participants with obesity or saying they have to lose weight or anything....
Lol, first apologies *again* to the OP because it was not my intent to derail to this extent on a topic that I do think bears repeating.
Neandermagnon actually hit the point I was most concerned about with the article I added, which was the probability of a large number of women thinking they're at a healthy body fat when they quite possibly aren't. Although I also have some concerns about the skew towards the healthy end of that chart. I'm thinking in particular of a someone on my FL. She has a history of ED and uses BMI as a marker to help her maintain a healthy weight. I have very little experience with ED so I'm usually not comfortable advising her, but this chart made me immediately think of her because there's real reason for concern that she should NOT depend on BMI to establish that her weight is ok.....
Don't apologize. I expected this thread to get derailed from the first post. Possibly into a variety of discussions from fat acceptance to fat admirers, etc... I was not expecting the humorous hit and run and "educational moment" but given that - please continue to derail. I love your discussion and do see something of value there.
I agree with what you are writing here. BMI as a single indicator of health, etc.. isn't valid.
Is you friend using having a normal range BMI as a justification of ok weight in the presence of other clinical issues or is she using it as a first goal to get back to a more normal weight range? As a simplified initial goal, something that can be measured and achieved - it might not be a bad idea. As the only indicator that "all is good" it's a gross simplification.
From what I can tell she is using it as her only indicator. She is keeping herself right at the border of 18.5 BMI and will specifically ask people not to "like" if she drops below that number. She hasn't specifically mentioned any physical indicators that her body fat levels are too low but she is definitely still struggling with issues of depression and binge eating. She mentioned a little while ago noticing that she had an easier time keeping herself mentally healthy when she is heavier and even mentioned that she thought maybe it had something to do with her fat levels, my concern is that this is exactly the problem and her fat levels are lower than she thinks.0 -
Uh. I was tracking with everything and had a grasp of where things were going ... Until ... Secondary sexual organ!?!?! I have never heard of this! How have womens kept that secret? Do I get acces like on our tenth anniversary or something??
Sorry, bad translation into English. The right word would be "secondary sex characteristics". I was not aware that the term was that misleading as to inspire several replies. Sorry for that
I understood what you meant, boys are just silly.0 -
Uh. I was tracking with everything and had a grasp of where things were going ... Until ... Secondary sexual organ!?!?! I have never heard of this! How have womens kept that secret? Do I get acces like on our tenth anniversary or something??
Sorry, bad translation into English. The right word would be "secondary sex characteristics". I was not aware that the term was that misleading as to inspire several replies. Sorry for that
Silliness is all. I just didn't understand and realize (now) that the mammories would be considered such. I thought strictly in terms of genitals because even my inner scientist is a thirteen year old boy.
Long story short, I wasn't poking at you; was legitimately confused and mocking my own ignorance of the concept.
I think we could move the discussion into attractiveness of hermaphrodite. Not sure the moderators would approve.
If we ever evolve into a self-pollinating hermaphrodite species (oh, look where your mind just went) males might still have a, albeit small, role.
Worms, lovely elegans, have < 1% males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1462001/pdf/11901116.pdf
(My inner 13 year old likes worms too).
I prefer nudibranchs (it even has nudi in the name!).
ETA, those are snails, not worms, but marine flat worms are pretty cool too:
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IPlZGpoG/PZdmhvczr0nMzIsVxNd/wBu72ojkn52OV6cnR6bcYhIwgO+9aqre6sDYGjVGrHPuFDlZg8zZs4dj4x8PBAF6W3Yutr2HpXp6u1fJnv5oo/DDsbcG2C6+QxxOw5qmjb09dzSS7FVlhjH+QN3NUAL3cD2IGkC/kBtwrSXYtpMDvuSTp2rncknsTejb3rt8KceODJoWdSjGtpbpaCCAeA7v227gfL2CEYT/IOwkEFp2rQRZH5TQJPbcC/ckepVc0Y2r4LsaBu4cbBsuFNA0/Dub2/Vt7d91Lk7LVNFc2E0A0CKsEt+AXeiqv1sb+3JVKTFUQYwNN0Wu9Qew5u+Rzx/uBtDI0S4pm8eDsCTzTTQI2vY911RmmZyg1+gV07O0O2dRB9+3qtLtHPOClwU+LsZsjhkR1T/AIZgOWyDgn5rzdfgco717dk4ritkvbo5sNXjmxLy0AaLECNtCQBuK+kmA7xJFDJD46UMYQA1QykyiaEFItMV5GJunY7BZJkqLFs8i0SE2DmVXRNmNmRtFYxwMuipcRpnTYnU9uVk4mikRyM+01FlwW6SRz+bkl5HLfX0HyX0On0+NY0vd9nZNRitsfcadAb5kzWuN2SGmz+YUeb70U44YY5VFG2nxqHKO4j6ZbSAGtNBtfE4OsEOqiAN77pSgVkXwLOq6McAPt73mw2g0kDl3Gwux/y1m17BDE537IXt6kTVxjv+W+NVkn7+3b5KE+SZ4UumWxvbe/drtOrcaqsVwefvVD1W1cENUWyxhpDWgODi27IADR339dIr/wDJ37JpWyW7BMl4olxAHxH0ab2d2s7EbdgRzydFEzlOkKMzJBPAAFi/hJskFxHpdk/8KtYTjnO2Utcdtr7k87gHauwJv72q9Ix3Mujl3q2+44sbg167O+m6zljRW50ZLkkbezq78m9/kf8AmyccNESyADZ6OqgN7IrtX+/Ht2W3p8UTvLvNtt7XtRFj4dqHPb0903Bo1jk5LwGuAur3AdsDwKJP9d/4ojNoqUU+UawM3Q8seLb+VzCOWrbtGE4p9dmvEfS2NZHPC3/DeSyQtumyctJH7Ni/ax7r53U6eWLI/wDa+v8AA90ZJV2JGrnA0QgCNJiLIikxDzpwtQxMfQ4lhZism7FISGisxJUWaMIToDiJJFVGlgshVJCsHcrAwFAgmByQDCHIKlopM6vwZPAH3KwSvc4tpxAbHAG259dz2+i8zX+so/6bo9DQ44zb5+r2E/XDA6eR0DdMWqmDtp9fuvq/Eepk0qlk7OrVRUGl7+4P0vNEUjXBoOh16fUXuurJw7CElR6t4f6lBktJiPFa4yAHxuN7kd9zysm76CTvkReOcM/iInNr/FYY/YFpujfsf3FKrR0aeX+k79gP8Dobbtmgb2QHD0A9T9ro8crCmjlnkbYu5ANkaTtW1AAB3bfn32PtS3irVENtGzluANUXWSBW4G2w/wBNfIUt1EzbsDyPMeaJvd3Asnsf5LaGO+TGXFk4ukyOFlhNEjYEWDyQO/F/RbKKRi9pbj9GeRZFN06rJaA3jknhJpIxdN0i+bw5O2PzYx5kZ3Bb8Qc3vprk0Bxd0Vgs+Cc9ikt3xZElKPaYlkeDtse3sAfra3jjZN26JS4sYZqkc2Jp2bYLnv8AWmjc9vZGTJHEt0mOGJ5HUeQB7or+F7tNEEOYQ2/UU4+3ZcL8jhs6147NXCDcQOJG4cNqc0gi6siqsd/hPqtYbcq3QdmEt+N1NUEuww8DU3j9oEW3/KHXtv234K1jujwRujIP6Lk6CYpRqhnaWHa2ua5Vkxxyw2s5s+NrlexyvVMMwyvjcb0O+F36mHdrvtX1XzWWDhNxfsb45bo7gYKCjRQBph3QI6Ho7lLEzrsVwpRRBKVwSZSKCLUlGvKTGeZly0osrJTEb8u0ARdFSYGMQAXCkxjPDcGtfZouZpafmRY/cufPFuj0fGThHNcvjgDxHv1Ftbcm+y9bQa70IuLVpj18/rthrcQH1s8V6/zTzeQcnaVI4fUk+gjCfkYEzZQDrGxje0sL4jyCD9EsevwZenz+p2afFqO9rcWd907ruDmPhc55x5Yy/SyQFoLnM0uGrjgnuuqORSjwrO178cWq7M8ZYXlQl4AAeQ0uG4cw2RZA42G11dKZVIyg90jkceM72OSXcm6rY/K3FbYoP3JkXwwagXuIbE3YyO7bDYe/Oy7FUVcjJpt7V2WY3iDGjeNMUjwOXkgE37H+q5ZeQxN0mb/+rzTXLoJ/9at+IOxwQQQwhwsC+4I9K7pPV41y2yZ+GmlxIQdf62cl7atkTatliifU1zsuDX63dDZif7nVoNAsT+rlno/VfEbIJYYZYi/EyseMQuYAd+D9rZ97XwODTOcJZsc2ssJOzNYVNtf/AEmziPGTosTJkbG3XL8LrfWn4wHhx/zdiODz3X6L4jyzz6GOTJ93X8jyM2l+pNcJnPdExX5mUxr3f+48a3dmRDd1egDQV5XkdbJpzf7HqaXGscHJrhIZP8W6Xkw4fTg0OIYXQvcTECdN/HV1VmlxR0Vx+qcv5nny12Z9SDOqZUUkDM/FjZDI2UY+bjAf4LnVqaQP0uH2PuE9DnzaTUelKVrtP8fk6INavE4T7QyxsWHJp+O9vxN+OIkGRjrF2Bv9e/PdfbYs8MkVZ83kWXBNqQdH0jsQCDyKrfsQefkq49gea+zkfGgb5jCCCdBa6uQ5pHP3Xj+TjUoy92deBNROdC8w2MKYjGhADbAlpSxHQY2dspCgpuVaQUFR7pUUi0BAzyh5WoyLBZQIPhiSEanYEADNjTGHY8SQw1rEgsm0IE232MehTBmTC52zWzREk8AaxuufWRcsE1HumOD5R6H446a3Ix5Xhty4riWuHLmUC4fKnfuXx/i888OaEX1Lv9T6Tx+Z48sYSf0zR5dj6GubrFxEgSAfoPJHuF+laXLHC1XT7PR1WC4uu10d5/cT/wAK+BknnQSkS4hP/wBb7sNvuHWR8z7rtnGLVpHzkM6WTlc9Ffhzw4+drX7tBLN9waBaTXpuCDfp2QsqxlZsqjwhL12I5GY3Exy1sTZSxv6TKRb3H5fEPoV5fmNVLHi3PpK2eloMSxY3myBuZ/Z1O0EwyxTub+ZguNw+Vkj70vkdP5zHf1JpfJ14/J4JP6otfns5fq3TZoCGzRujcdwHdx6g8Fe3DWwyq4s608eSO7G7QspKUjFRaZ650PFDsLFfkM1vxQ6eJtW4tDXNaAP+pv2XyOfI1qMih1Phnl6iv4iSj78HkvVzNNPJJKHeZI8ucCNwT2r2FD6L6zT5IYsShBqkjWekbmq6Q/6XiuwcWXKkGmWZrsbEYdnF7xT5K9Gts/Rck5rVZo4ov6Vy3/wceuyxw4vTj2+zj2hexZ4VHQeEOpQtMuNlWMbNDGmS/wD487b0SfL4qP0Xn6/BOSjlx/dD+q+Dp02b0p37CfxB0uXEndG/Z8bqDm23UBw5p9CuvSapZcanFnXqMST3LpkcfreUNhPPR2PxuO1+59l3/wAVkS+45Y4cbfMS/qDHBsTnu1PlEkjrNu3fQLvnRK5Fmllk3J2aa5Ri4wS6QEHJnCWBAGwgRaySkgCY8kooBjh5JtTQzocOXZIAwlTY0eXOiWlgiyOGkrGTfLSaJKvMtMZdC1Aw+JqALUCMSZLMCkiz0XwT1+NzHRzva1xZodrNB9CmnfuRsfkvlPK6HJDIsmJXzfB7GHN6sI/7onm/UBoe9vZrnAe4BNfuX0eDNJwV/B9TmyJxTsv6X4mlhpll8Ni4nHbkH4T+yb3Xq4NZOPEuUeFqcWLJK1w/k9cxfFWPN07JlxHeVJAyQ6JKa5kz26hQsh1uLq9StIyU5p9o4I6eazwjPlNnlnS45XTxiEkSmVug9w/Vz/FR5XYtPKU+l2fVpQjCSl9tHR/2oZ4ZkwnHkMeTHG8ZD4SWOo6TG1xHP7Ro8X7r5DwmmcsU/VjcG/pTPjM+V3SfAsxvHAlYIepwjJiHE8dNnYfWuD8wR9V05PEbHv00tr+PY10uvnhe5MOPUOgwgSRibIe0gtj0yWT2vXTQuZabyWV7ZNJfJ2z8xka/wc71fxtlTTtmjccbymlkMcRsNjJBIdY+O6F2K2C9XB43Djw+lJbvlv5PIlmlKW6wiD+0HLbuWYsj/wBboqdfr8LgFlLwuB8JtL4s1Wty1W4S9b65PlvD8h+otGljWgNYxvcNaOP4rt0+lx6eO3GqRhKbk7YvpdBJFzPVMDt5On/3rjQFkzDlYsQhkjkIEklcOvvYHK8Le9DmknH6Ju1+D1sGTHkxbJPk5SfokkBvIboAJAaSA6Qg7ho9PfhenDOsvEAnGGD6m/0A8iUvNnnYD0AGwA9guiMVFUeXOcpy3S7ZBqokuaVIG0AYmBNpQAbiSUUgOl6bMCpYDpjLCmijzmGNDBFkrKCSGK53LVEkGFMA3HSYxhEpAmXJ2BDWkSybSggmgE6ZbjwxPcGzuMbDt5gBcWfQb0ubNCSW7GuT1dFr3jThk5iQ6r4Re0a8d7cuG61wnUWn0c3kFc+LXr7ci2y/J3LFjz845fsB4bpYS5r2HS8aXtLd6B2cPQjkL0cGrjGVp8HXihPG1a4Oz8B4cb8xpe9oMdviG4EjgDx6etfNV/5A1PQylD3/AJG2syzjgltVp9/gD/tEjP4+W26bERB/WPLA1e/BH0Xn+NmpaaCvpex8jk+44/KjXoIgBcUwMBTAmgDEAWNKQGygCPBBGxG4I2IPsUNXwwNzyvebe98hqtUjnPNeluNpRjGPEVQ22+yulQjYagCQSAxAEmhAFoYkBNuyAGnT8mikB1fT8mwkOzkYMdQ2JGZEGylMsS5EBtapksrENKgCIUmMMa5ICD3IEYwFAmXtQSXMCYiTggaK4c2WEkwyPiJ2JYS3UBxfr9VlkwwyKpqzWE3Hphb/ABPlmtUocR3dHCSfmdK5v4DAuo/1Z0x1mZdSIYXXJWTsmdpkdG4ODSA1pA7fCBXPK1lgXoyxRdJ/uaR1+ZJxcuH2OPFvXxnSMc1jo2xx6afpLi4m3WR22FfVcvjdFLSwalK22ceSW58HPZGPa9OzMWTYpTsAcspOwMQBtMDYSA3aANgIA3SYGiEAYgDKSAwBABuNj2pbAPGEaSsAWeGkwK4nUUwOg6bk7JElLCAFi0UijInCEirAnNBWiJYPkAJoEUxNVFBAakIm2NMC0MpFCJxs3QSFNiSFRj4kgQDNGgqwcsQUXQxKWWM8aBKyQn8OiwoqycHbhCYqEGXBS0QgFwVAYEwN0gDYSAsaEASLEARLUAY1iYiflpATii3SYx903GUMBwcYUpAS9RhpUmAmcN1YDPp7tkCA5skqaEmDNeSU6CybnooaKuUikFwwJWWEDHKdiowx0rRLI0gkIgYkxJWHRsUNl0XeRYUWJoDmxFViBnYiVlBMGIpbKQbHHSVjLWIEFGEEIQmc91PD3WqJEk2OVaAGc2kwNBAGIAIgbaTAYMxbSsRE4ZRYy6LARYmEf3b7IsVmm4JHZDFYfiDSpYWMvN2UhYrzxaZViSWDdXYxj0+HZFiF4xUWZ2YcekwsrfEgpMyGLdSzRDbGhWZYcIBSpACZEKrcS0Usx07JoMhxSk2UkFiBQy0XwxrMTRccS0WTRWcFTuCgmPB2TsECZkWlJM1SBInK0JoYYzrQQ0V5+LapMgRZOIrsYqycZUmICdCVQjXllAWGYUe6lsDpcPGsKRBP4IIHYRDgoEFNwwgkrfhBMTKX4aTEUOhIUDBciMosdgYh3TspMY4sQpFlC7SkmY0VSNVpjoCkVjJRKGaxGcD6WZYSJ0WUQ5SsTD8TFtOyaGUeGE7Lom7FTERZApaAKZGokFFjYFlYmgtmNstCLE/VsdI3gJGxG1aYMb4GOmQy/Ki2RZNCbJhVJki2XEJ7KrEUnpbjw0qkyWZ/c7/0FOxWXY3Sng/lKTHY9xMUgbilIF7mUgC+EoANjjtMRN2MnQmVHHTaJB5cULNoYHNhqQFuRiUgLKGy6UFJn//Z[/img]0 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6" and 250lbs lean, this guy is jacked out of his mind.
Must admit i'm mirin, it he natty though?0 -
Uh. I was tracking with everything and had a grasp of where things were going ... Until ... Secondary sexual organ!?!?! I have never heard of this! How have womens kept that secret? Do I get acces like on our tenth anniversary or something??
Sorry, bad translation into English. The right word would be "secondary sex characteristics". I was not aware that the term was that misleading as to inspire several replies. Sorry for that
Silliness is all. I just didn't understand and realize (now) that the mammories would be considered such. I thought strictly in terms of genitals because even my inner scientist is a thirteen year old boy.
Long story short, I wasn't poking at you; was legitimately confused and mocking my own ignorance of the concept.
I think we could move the discussion into attractiveness of hermaphrodite. Not sure the moderators would approve.
If we ever evolve into a self-pollinating hermaphrodite species (oh, look where your mind just went) males might still have a, albeit small, role.
Worms, lovely elegans, have < 1% males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1462001/pdf/11901116.pdf
(My inner 13 year old likes worms too).
I prefer nudibranchs (it even has nudi in the name!).
Love them
0 -
6" and 250lbs lean, this guy is jacked out of his mind.
Must admit i'm mirin, it he natty though?
Naw. I'm pretty sure he's jacked up with ink0 -
I've never wanted to be a snail more in my entire life.Uh. I was tracking with everything and had a grasp of where things were going ... Until ... Secondary sexual organ!?!?! I have never heard of this! How have womens kept that secret? Do I get acces like on our tenth anniversary or something??
Sorry, bad translation into English. The right word would be "secondary sex characteristics". I was not aware that the term was that misleading as to inspire several replies. Sorry for that
Silliness is all. I just didn't understand and realize (now) that the mammories would be considered such. I thought strictly in terms of genitals because even my inner scientist is a thirteen year old boy.
Long story short, I wasn't poking at you; was legitimately confused and mocking my own ignorance of the concept.
I think we could move the discussion into attractiveness of hermaphrodite. Not sure the moderators would approve.
If we ever evolve into a self-pollinating hermaphrodite species (oh, look where your mind just went) males might still have a, albeit small, role.
Worms, lovely elegans, have < 1% males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1462001/pdf/11901116.pdf
(My inner 13 year old likes worms too).
I prefer nudibranchs (it even has nudi in the name!).
Love them0
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