What are the Proven Benefits of a "Lifestyle Change"?
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Seems like you have already accepted that you "will" fail. Having a defeatist towards something that is supposed to have a high rate of failure is pretty much guaranteeing that will not succeed. So then t he question is, why even bother trying? Why not just cut your losses now, same the time and not deal with not deal with the stress of doing something that you will inevitably fail at?
Maybe you can answer the question. If lifestyle changes aren't made, how do you suggest people keep the weight off?
It means you keep working out and eating right even after you hit your goal. You set new fitness related goals (doesn't have to just be losing weight). Mabye your goal is lose 30 lbs. Then once you get there, you maintain it and you set some other goal your interested in - maybe run a 5k, 10k, whatever. You keep working out and doing fitness related activities. You don't start eating junk because you lost your 30 lbs. You eat a maintainance amount of calories. If weight starts to creep up, you lower cals again. Rinse and repeat for life. Best thing to do is keep setting goals and enter into fitness related events so you have something to train for. Example: I'm training for a powerlifting meet and three mud obstacle races this summer. In the fall I'll be training for some other events. That's why it's a lifestyle, always have a goal to train (and eat) for.The question isn't how do people gain weight back, we know how. We lose the weight, then eat like pigs again. The question is: Why do so many of us do that, given how horrible being overweight is and how hard we worked to not be anymore?
When that gets solved, then this issue can be laid to rest. For certain the simple, ill-defined phrase 'lifestyle change' isn't offering up any solutions.
If it was that simple everyone with even a moderate amount of nutrition information would never get fat in the first place, much less have trouble keeping weight off.
How do you see that? People who have emotional ties to food for stress and comfort, people that have binging disorders.....these issues can easily overtake the best intentions unless dealt with. Until the why is addressed, the how to fix it will never work. Not addressing the core issues is why people yo-yo and develope an even more harmful perpetuating cycle of self sabotage.
But what if losing weight causes those disorders? Quoting this again because I read it today in someone's post, and to me it sums up the issue of how difficult it is to maintain a loss and I don't think the words 'lifestyle change' address it at all:
"The Rockefeller subjects also had a psychiatric syndrome, called semi-starvation neurosis, which had been noticed before in people of normal weight who had been starved. They dreamed of food, they fantasized about food or about breaking their diet. They were anxious and depressed; some had thoughts of suicide. They secreted food in their rooms. And they binged."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
The whole article is really worth a read.
It's called pulling excuses out of a hat.
You can probably lose weight without "semi-starvation" and extremism. Maybe. Thousands of people are doing it on this place called myfitnesspal.com.
But the loss isn't the issue. No one disputes people can lose weight. How many of us, using this place called MFP will keep off a large portion (say greater than 50%) of the weight we lose long term? That is the rub.
Nope. I can't. If I could I'd be rich.All I know is what the evidence tells me, and that is that by far the majority of people who lose end up regaining all or a portion, no matter how they lose. Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message.
Or you could come up with a plan on how to achieve your and a possible game plan on how to remain in that illusive 5%. Having a plan that might fail is better than having no plan and accepting failure from the start.
Thank you for telling me about my defeatist attitude about how I know will fail. If I'm so convinced I'll fail, why am I doing this in the first place? Or am I stupid too? Understanding and accepting the magnitude of a task in front of you doesn't make you a defeatist. It makes you a realist. Perhaps it makes you appreciate something about the difficulty of the task you have set out to do and makes you aware of what to watch out for. Perhaps understanding the fact that so many people fail makes you more determined to succeed because you know you can't be complacent. But thanks for telling me I'm defeatist. I had no clue until you informed me.0 -
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I'm pretty sure that 1980's low fat fad isn't such a great idea or even necessary.
You missed the point. All three of these (and the rest in the link I posted) say that the people who are maintaining were successful because they kept the behavior changes they made while losing. Which is the evidence the OP asked for.
I'm in no way promoting a low fat diet. I'm just posting the scientific studies that I found on maintaining.0 -
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First off, not once did I call you stupid. I said you have a defeatist attitude because that's what you are displaying. Sorry if that bothers you. No need to take the whoa is me victim role. Soon everyone will be mean and a bully?
Seems like you have already accepted that you "will" fail. Having a defeatist towards something that is supposed to have a high rate of failure is pretty much guaranteeing that will not succeed. So then t he question is, why even bother trying? Why not just cut your losses now, same the time and not deal with not deal with the stress of doing something that you will inevitably fail at?
Maybe you can answer the question. If lifestyle changes aren't made, how do you suggest people keep the weight off?
It means you keep working out and eating right even after you hit your goal. You set new fitness related goals (doesn't have to just be losing weight). Mabye your goal is lose 30 lbs. Then once you get there, you maintain it and you set some other goal your interested in - maybe run a 5k, 10k, whatever. You keep working out and doing fitness related activities. You don't start eating junk because you lost your 30 lbs. You eat a maintainance amount of calories. If weight starts to creep up, you lower cals again. Rinse and repeat for life. Best thing to do is keep setting goals and enter into fitness related events so you have something to train for. Example: I'm training for a powerlifting meet and three mud obstacle races this summer. In the fall I'll be training for some other events. That's why it's a lifestyle, always have a goal to train (and eat) for.The question isn't how do people gain weight back, we know how. We lose the weight, then eat like pigs again. The question is: Why do so many of us do that, given how horrible being overweight is and how hard we worked to not be anymore?
When that gets solved, then this issue can be laid to rest. For certain the simple, ill-defined phrase 'lifestyle change' isn't offering up any solutions.
If it was that simple everyone with even a moderate amount of nutrition information would never get fat in the first place, much less have trouble keeping weight off.
How do you see that? People who have emotional ties to food for stress and comfort, people that have binging disorders.....these issues can easily overtake the best intentions unless dealt with. Until the why is addressed, the how to fix it will never work. Not addressing the core issues is why people yo-yo and develope an even more harmful perpetuating cycle of self sabotage.
But what if losing weight causes those disorders? Quoting this again because I read it today in someone's post, and to me it sums up the issue of how difficult it is to maintain a loss and I don't think the words 'lifestyle change' address it at all:
"The Rockefeller subjects also had a psychiatric syndrome, called semi-starvation neurosis, which had been noticed before in people of normal weight who had been starved. They dreamed of food, they fantasized about food or about breaking their diet. They were anxious and depressed; some had thoughts of suicide. They secreted food in their rooms. And they binged."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
The whole article is really worth a read.
It's called pulling excuses out of a hat.
You can probably lose weight without "semi-starvation" and extremism. Maybe. Thousands of people are doing it on this place called myfitnesspal.com.
But the loss isn't the issue. No one disputes people can lose weight. How many of us, using this place called MFP will keep off a large portion (say greater than 50%) of the weight we lose long term? That is the rub.
Nope. I can't. If I could I'd be rich.All I know is what the evidence tells me, and that is that by far the majority of people who lose end up regaining all or a portion, no matter how they lose. Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message.
Or you could come up with a plan on how to achieve your and a possible game plan on how to remain in that illusive 5%. Having a plan that might fail is better than having no plan and accepting failure from the start.
Thank you for telling me about my defeatist attitude about how I know will fail. If I'm so convinced I'll fail, why am I doing this in the first place? Or am I stupid too? Understanding and accepting the magnitude of a task in front of you doesn't make you a defeatist. It makes you a realist. Perhaps it makes you appreciate something about the difficulty of the task you have set out to do and makes you aware of what to watch out for. Perhaps understanding the fact that so many people fail makes you more determined to succeed because you know you can't be complacent. But thanks for telling me I'm defeatist. I had no clue until you informed me.
Understanding why people fail and trying to do things different, that are different from thing that we did in the first place to end up overweight/obese involve lifestyle changes no?
I think I object to the blanket use of "lifestyle change FTW!" more than anything. Of course, any behaviors that change constitute a lifestyle change. But just saying "lifestyle changes!" does no good in telling us anything. How do we help people maintain these "lifestyle changes" so that they can successfully maintain a significant weight loss? You can lose weight on any diet as long as fundamentally, you are taking in less than you are using. The physics don't change. Nor do the physics of keeping it off. You have to maintain an energy balance. To me, how we maintain that energy balance is interesting. What that looks like. And there hasn't been evidence that I have encountered yet that indicates what is typically meant as the OP stated as "lifestyle change" leading to better maintenance results in previous threads exists. It well may be true. I don't argue that. I just want to see evidence that in the real world, with real people, "lifestyle changes" are any more successful than other forms of weight loss. That is why above I posted links to the NWCR research page on the first page of this discussion. Because I do think there is valuable information to learn. .
Also, I'm not taking a victim/woe is me/everyone is a bully attitude. I explained why I didn't feel I was defeatist (except for the "stupid" bit. That was just annoyance. Sorry). Sarcasm isn't always obvious through text.I simply don't feel that acknowledging the difficulty of something is defeatist. Acknowledging the difficulty of climbing Mt. Everest doesn't mean that a person won't be successful at doing it. Everyone comes at weight loss with the certainty that they will be able to do it. Recognizing the difficulty doesn't make for setting yourself up for failure. It just means recognizing that when the odds are against you, you're going to have to do a lot more to maintain your heard earned loss. That is all it means.0 -
There's a wonderful book written by a Registered Dietitian, Anne Fletcher, called THIN FOR LIFE. It's been my bible and she quotes in the book that the percentages of successful weight loss are off. The book offers sound, real-life, advice and tips from people who have maintained weight loss for more than 5 years.
I would imagine that your search for actual numbers will be just as difficult if you were looking for accurate studies on drug/alcohol addiction successes.
My bariatric surgeon has an ongoing study for over 10 years now in his practice and he has found that about 40% of his patients achieve and maintain weight loss of 80% excess body weight for 5 years or more. It's sad that these numbers aren't higher considering the magnitude of having your guts reconfigured.0 -
Everyone comes at weight loss with the certainty that they will be able to do it. Recognizing the difficulty doesn't make for setting yourself up for failure. It just means recognizing that when the odds are against you, you're going to have to do a lot more to maintain your heard earned loss. That is all it means.
Clearly not - a lot of people are certain it is hard, nay, impossible!
Read this thread and the other one you posted in.0 -
It means you keep working out and eating right even after you hit your goal. You set new fitness related goals (doesn't have to just be losing weight). Mabye your goal is lose 30 lbs. Then once you get there, you maintain it and you set some other goal your interested in - maybe run a 5k, 10k, whatever. You keep working out and doing fitness related activities. You don't start eating junk because you lost your 30 lbs. You eat a maintainance amount of calories. If weight starts to creep up, you lower cals again. Rinse and repeat for life. Best thing to do is keep setting goals and enter into fitness related events so you have something to train for. Example: I'm training for a powerlifting meet and three mud obstacle races this summer. In the fall I'll be training for some other events. That's why it's a lifestyle, always have a goal to train (and eat) for.The question isn't how do people gain weight back, we know how. We lose the weight, then eat like pigs again. The question is: Why do so many of us do that, given how horrible being overweight is and how hard we worked to not be anymore?
When that gets solved, then this issue can be laid to rest. For certain the simple, ill-defined phrase 'lifestyle change' isn't offering up any solutions.
If it was that simple everyone with even a moderate amount of nutrition information would never get fat in the first place, much less have trouble keeping weight off.
How do you see that? People who have emotional ties to food for stress and comfort, people that have binging disorders.....these issues can easily overtake the best intentions unless dealt with. Until the why is addressed, the how to fix it will never work. Not addressing the core issues is why people yo-yo and develope an even more harmful perpetuating cycle of self sabotage.
But what if losing weight causes those disorders? Quoting this again because I read it today in someone's post, and to me it sums up the issue of how difficult it is to maintain a loss and I don't think the words 'lifestyle change' address it at all:
"The Rockefeller subjects also had a psychiatric syndrome, called semi-starvation neurosis, which had been noticed before in people of normal weight who had been starved. They dreamed of food, they fantasized about food or about breaking their diet. They were anxious and depressed; some had thoughts of suicide. They secreted food in their rooms. And they binged."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
The whole article is really worth a read.
It's called pulling excuses out of a hat.
You can probably lose weight without "semi-starvation" and extremism. Maybe. Thousands of people are doing it on this place called myfitnesspal.com.
Go read my post in the other thread you're posting in about how things changed for me after I'd dropped about %15 of my body weight. Before that, as I recall, it was pretty darn easy. I counted calories, exercised lightly, ate what I wanted in moderation, and didn't feel especially deprived. Then something happened. And I don't know what it was, but it had nothing to do with my motivation, mindset, or 'lifestyle'.0 -
Everyone comes at weight loss with the certainty that they will be able to do it. Recognizing the difficulty doesn't make for setting yourself up for failure. It just means recognizing that when the odds are against you, you're going to have to do a lot more to maintain your heard earned loss. That is all it means.
Clearly not - a lot of people are certain it is hard, nay, impossible!
Read this thread and the other one you posted in.
True. I forgot the cardinal rule of never dealing in absolutes. :happy:
I used to be horribly pessimistic about my chances of losing weight, much less keeping it off. Then I finally quit coddling myself and being defeatist about it when I discovered I was insulin resistant, and was headed where I didn't want to go--I was not longer a "healthy" fat person. I don't know what changed. But something did. And now, despite knowing about long odds and such, I feel much more optimistic about my chances of success. Yeah, it may be a tough row to hoe, but I don't feel it is impossible for me anymore.0 -
By definition, if you give up the 'lifestyle change' at some point after you hit goal, then it wasn't a 'lifestyle change' and you'll gain the weight back.
So then, by definition, maintaining the lifestyle change that got you to goal, will allow you to maintain indefinitely.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but this sounds like no true Scotsman or the "once saved always saved" corollary one gets from some sorts of evangelicals, that if someone backslides after being "born again" one was not truly "born again" in the first place. Or perhaps the assertion that one gets from some fanatical AA members, that if one can stop drinking without the AA method one was not a true alcoholic. (Not trying to start a debate about any of these--they are just parallels that come to mind.)
If someone who in all respects appears to have done a lifestyle change and believes that one has changed his or her lifestyle, what help is it to anyone to claim that those who backslide must not have done a real lifestyle change after all.
Besides, people do change their lifestyles multiple times in their life. Successfully creating a lifestyle change doesn't mean you will maintain it. One theory is that you need to look at what encourages that lifestyle vs. not. The people I know who have maintained such changes (anecdotal--I'd definitely be interested in better information, but don't have them) have external forces that help establish that lifestyle--as with any particular lifestyle. For the most part that relates to social structure. And there are studies that indicate that it's easier to avoid gaining weight if you are surrounded by in shape people with lifestyles that lead to being in shape. This is one reason why I suspect (and see on MFP as well as offline) that people who get into hobbies associated with being in shape seem to do well, comparatively. It helps create a social network, among other things.
True enough - and thanks for the well reasoned response, there is truth in what you say - I was just attempting to differentiate between what I would define a lifestyle change (a change made for life) vs. a temporary behavior modification (a change made to reach a specific goal and not adopted for life). Semantics at play.
I'm probably biased by my own experience; for each change in behavior I ask myself 'am I willing to do this for the rest of my life?'. It's one reason I was so reluctant to adopt weighing my food and why I'm currently reluctant to start lifting heavy weights.
Thanks for giving me something to think about.
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QFT
By definition, if you give up the 'lifestyle change' at some point after you hit goal, then it wasn't a 'lifestyle change' and you'll gain the weight back.
So then, by definition, maintaining the lifestyle change that got you to goal, will allow you to maintain indefinitely.
It's not rocket surgery.
I bet surgeons for rockets make heaps of money.
I think OP was not challenging the idea that a "lifestyle change" won't maintain weight. Any way of eating that helps someone get to goal will work for maintenance. I think she is more asking, "Where is the evidence that eating in moderation, including treats on a semi-regular basis, and calorie counting results in more long-term success than following other diet methods?"
I don't believe she is questioning whether or not people who can stick to that plan do well. I believe she is asking if there's any proof that more people can stick to that plan. Of course calorie counting works. But many people don't comply with it. What makes it a lifestyle change any more than choosing to follow a true Paleo diet? Both groups have people who stick with it and those who don't.
Change the pronoun to "he", and you hit my inquiry square on the head.
And I sympathize with the vehement emotional response. Nobody wants to face the very real possibility that you can do everything "right", and still face the same terrible maintenance odds as the people you think are doing it 'wrong".
That you can declare a "lifestyle change", become a conscious calorie counter, not restrict any foods or macros, lose weight at a slower pace, feel totally transformed, like you could do this forever...
And still, statically, end up in the 80-95% of losers who regain all their weight back. It's a sobering thought. Or perhaps end up in the "success" category of maintaining some of your loss, while still regaining a considerable amount.
Me personally, I'm comfortable knowing the odds. It helps me. I scoffed at them the first time I lost weight and assumed I'd, of course, be one of the exceptions. I'm not so haughty this time around after becoming part of the majority statistic who regained it all back (and double in my case). It actually does me good to accept that most people are going to lose at this thing and that I need to be ever vigilant if I want to stay the course.
I started this thread looking for some study, some concrete evidence, that the "lifestyle change" road has been proven to lead to significantly greater long term success. I see now that such evidence doesn't seem to exist. And I'm fine with that.
I just happen to think that if you're going to be pushing a program as the end all, be all, there should be some actual evidence to back it up. Otherwise you're no different than Weight Watchers or AA, two supposedly sensible, popular programs heralded as "successful" that, when actually studied, have astronomical long term failure rates.0 -
I just happen to think that if you're going to be pushing a program as the end all, be all, there should be some actual evidence to back it up. Otherwise you're no different than Weight Watchers or AA, two supposedly sensible, popular programs heralded as "successful" that, when actually studied, have astronomical long term failure rates.
Hey OP I like this thread. I like all the back and forth etc. etc. etc.
What I take out of this is that "lifestyle change" is just a another way of saying "This is one's attitude about their relationship with food, tracking of food intake, exercise, and other general health improvements"
Long story short; and this is just me.
Lifestyle change to me means: "Do I have the long term resolve, discipline, and willpower, to do the things which enable me to maintain what I define personally as good health".
Good Thread0 -
The amount of hypocrisy in this thread astounds me. When someone makes claims about detoxes or paleo diets (which I also think are ridiculous), everyone is asking for scientific studies. But someone asks for a study about a common claim on this board and everyone is saying "oh, its common sense, you don't need a study" or "how else would you do it". OP is not saying that maintenance can be done without a lifestyle change, he's just asking for the scientific backing for the claim that is so often spouted here.
It is rather incredible, isn't it?0 -
I don't have any studies to offer, but this is a great topic.
Some of the difficulty with the question at hand is the definition of "lifestyle change". This is impossible IMO to quantify. Certainly if one wishes to maintain one's weight loss one must continue to behave in a way that will keep a net energy balance at the lower body weight. If this is the definition of "lifestyle change", the the question becomes "Why didn't the lifestyle stay changed?"
One thing to keep in mind is that "lifestyle" itself is ever changing. No one who loses weight or gets fit does so in a vacuum. We all have jobs, school, family, and plenty of other responsibilities. How often do we read on these boards of someone who maintained their weight loss until XX changed: new job, pregnancy, death in the family, etc? Lifestyle incorporates all of these things. I personally think that my "lifestyle" changes over the course of the year!
It's not defeatism to recognize that the odds are long. I personally have no plans to go back to be fat Jruzer, but I would be foolish to ignore the possibility. As GI Joe taught us, "Knowing is half the battle."'0 -
Great post.I don't have any studies to offer, but this is a great topic.
Some of the difficulty with the question at hand is the definition of "lifestyle change". This is impossible IMO to quantify. Certainly if one wishes to maintain one's weight loss one must continue to behave in a way that will keep a net energy balance at the lower body weight. If this is the definition of "lifestyle change", the the question becomes "Why didn't the lifestyle stay changed?"
One thing to keep in mind is that "lifestyle" itself is ever changing. No one who loses weight or gets fit does so in a vacuum. We all have jobs, school, family, and plenty of other responsibilities. How often do we read on these boards of someone who maintained their weight loss until XX changed: new job, pregnancy, death in the family, etc? Lifestyle incorporates all of these things. I personally think that my "lifestyle" changes over the course of the year!
It's not defeatism to recognize that the odds are long. I personally have no plans to go back to be fat Jruzer, but I would be foolish to ignore the possibility. As GI Joe taught us, "Knowing is half the battle."'0 -
Yes. And I'd add: making changes *during* the weight loss phase that make resolve, discipline and willpower easier is good. i.e.: are you saying no carbs forever, or are you choosing carbs that satisfy you and meet your needs. For me, a lot of this was about finding a few good substitutions, and eliminating (or reducing very few foods and food products). For me it was about saying: I can easily eat x instead of y (a whole grain crust that, for me, was more filling, and with lots of vegetables and maybe one meat, instead of only a few high fat meats) rather than saying: no pizza ever. Choosing a whole grain slightly lower calorie (because of the crust, and the toppings) pizza was EASIER (for me) than saying: one slice of my favorite dominos pizza (one slice is never gonna happen).I just happen to think that if you're going to be pushing a program as the end all, be all, there should be some actual evidence to back it up. Otherwise you're no different than Weight Watchers or AA, two supposedly sensible, popular programs heralded as "successful" that, when actually studied, have astronomical long term failure rates.
Hey OP I like this thread. I like all the back and forth etc. etc. etc.
What I take out of this is that "lifestyle change" is just a another way of saying "This is one's attitude about their relationship with food, tracking of food intake, exercise, and other general health improvements"
Long story short; and this is just me.
Lifestyle change to me means: "Do I have the long term resolve, discipline, and willpower, to do the things which enable me to maintain what I define personally as good health".
Good Thread
And for me it was about figuring out what fueling my body really meant, and then deciding that was something I valued. It was pretty mental. It wasn't: I can't eat fast food every day. It was: I want to feel good, and outlive my genes. I'll eat a nutrient dense diet 80% of the time, and then enjoy a GOOD wholesome, hearty, wood fired pizza and a couple of glasses of wine with my husband when the mood strikes us. The longer I fueled my body and focused on eating whole foods (lots of vegetables, lean proteins, nuts, seeds, low fat dairy, whole grains, fruit) the less I craved the other stuff. I also noticed that I had fewer tummy aches. THAT was a definite plus, and incentive to continue.0 -
The term "lifestyle change" has a definition that is almost equally as subjective as "clean eating." Food for thought there (pun intended).
Good topic and interesting to read the commentary.0 -
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Great point.The term "lifestyle change" has a definition that is almost equally as subjective as "clean eating." Food for thought there (pun intended).
Good topic and interesting to read the commentary.0 -
I started this thread looking for some study, some concrete evidence, that the "lifestyle change" road has been proven to lead to significantly greater long term success. I see now that such evidence doesn't seem to exist. And I'm fine with that.
I just happen to think that if you're going to be pushing a program as the end all, be all, there should be some actual evidence to back it up. Otherwise you're no different than Weight Watchers or AA, two supposedly sensible, popular programs heralded as "successful" that, when actually studied, have astronomical long term failure rates.
Disagree here. And like I mentioned before, you are still ignoring the data and interpretation I posted for discussion.
a) There is no prescriptive foolproof program. There are, however, factors for success that are shared by statistically significant fractions of long-term weight losers
1. Monitoring of weight - people actually weigh themselves regularly (and, one would assume, adjust their habits accordingly)
2. Management of caloric intake - people keep monitoring their diet and following a plan. Cheating (defined by including frequently unmanaged days, specifically weekends) leads to lower success rates
3. Increased physical activity that is maintained past the "weight loss" period. Resistance training was significantly represented 20% of successful weight losers do weights, only 10% of those that don't keep their weight off do.
This is still not a guarantee for success, simply factors related to success. Often science, especially when it deals with complex subjects like humans, is not black and white. But you keep saying there is "no evidence of lifestyle changes leading to long-term success". That is disingenuous at best and misleading at worst. There are clearly factors, related to lifestyle, that affect your changes of successful long-term weight loss. Some quite important ones seem to be related to monitoring. And like I said before, I do think "monitoring your weight, calories, and lifestyle and managing them accordingly" is a significant lifestyle change. But maybe that doesn't fulfil your definition, you want something like "Atkins will lead to permanent weight loss".
And like I said before, we are simply going in circles with the definitions here. I learned something from this: if I want to keep my weight off, I have a better chance by monitoring my weight and my food and exercise habits.0 -
Disagree here. And like I mentioned before, you are still ignoring the data and interpretation I posted for discussion.
I haven't ignored a single piece of data you, or anyone else, has posted. In fact I couldn't ignore it since I read the vast majority of it long before I made this thread.There are, however, factors for success that are shared by statistically significant fractions of long-term weight losers
But this thread was never about the statistical anomalies that have been successful at long-term weight loss. I already know, and have long acknowledged, the outliers.
This thread was specifically asking for scientific evidence to back up the popular MFP claim that certain "lifestyle changes", commonly defined on this board, has a proven track record of long-term weight loss success above the abysmally low success rates commonly seen from all available studies. Perhaps you've missed out on all the "lifestyle change" declarations, the very common assertions that people doing it the "right" way have a far, far greater chance to maintain their losses. So much so that when studies arise that, yet again, state the poor odds, people are now saying the studies are only following folks who are doing it the "wrong" way. That if they studied those who made "lifestyle changes" based off the "right" way, they'd find this hidden cache of successful long-term maintainers.
I merely started this thread to ask for proof.
You keep trying to address what the successful are doing to maintain, to highlight the habits of the statistical 5-10%. That's a great topic, it's just not the topic of this particular thread.0 -
Disagree here. And like I mentioned before, you are still ignoring the data and interpretation I posted for discussion.
I haven't ignored a single piece of data you, or anyone else, has posted. In fact I couldn't ignore it since I read the vast majority of it long before I made this thread.There are, however, factors for success that are shared by statistically significant fractions of long-term weight losers
But this thread was never about the statistical anomalies that have been successful at long-term weight loss. I already know, and have long acknowledged, the outliers.
This thread was specifically asking for scientific evidence to back up the popular MFP claim that certain "lifestyle changes", commonly defined on this board, has a proven track record of long-term weight loss success above the abysmally low success rates commonly seen from all available studies. Perhaps you've missed out on all the "lifestyle change" declarations, the very common assertions that people doing it the "right" way have a far, far greater chance to maintain their losses. So much so that when studies arise that, yet again, state the poor odds, people are now saying the studies are only following folks who are doing it the "wrong" way. That if they studied those who made "lifestyle changes" based off the "right" way, they'd find this hidden cache of successful long-term maintainers.
I merely started this thread to ask for proof.
You keep trying to address what the successful are doing to maintain, to highlight the habits of the statistical 5-10%. That's a great topic, it's just not the topic of this particular thread.
Nope, that's not the issue. The issue is that those guys are doing something or some things right. But you are wilfully ignoring them.0 -
Not a study but an article from the MayoClinic.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/weight-loss/in-depth/weight-loss/art-20048466?pg=1
The fact is lifestyle change implys permanency , if a person reverts by definition they did not change their lifestyle. Just because something lasts a few years does not mean it is a change, it could still be classified as temporary. Those that change and last have made a permanent alteration to their lifestyle... or said simply they changed.
A person making repeated "changes" is neglecting the most important "change" to stop inconsistent behavior and deal with issues on a deeper level instead of the surface issues. In 9 out of 10 times weight is only the surface issue and the symptom of the greater problem.0 -
Disagree here. And like I mentioned before, you are still ignoring the data and interpretation I posted for discussion.
I haven't ignored a single piece of data you, or anyone else, has posted. In fact I couldn't ignore it since I read the vast majority of it long before I made this thread.There are, however, factors for success that are shared by statistically significant fractions of long-term weight losers
But this thread was never about the statistical anomalies that have been successful at long-term weight loss. I already know, and have long acknowledged, the outliers.
This thread was specifically asking for scientific evidence to back up the popular MFP claim that certain "lifestyle changes", commonly defined on this board, has a proven track record of long-term weight loss success above the abysmally low success rates commonly seen from all available studies. Perhaps you've missed out on all the "lifestyle change" declarations, the very common assertions that people doing it the "right" way have a far, far greater chance to maintain their losses. So much so that when studies arise that, yet again, state the poor odds, people are now saying the studies are only following folks who are doing it the "wrong" way. That if they studied those who made "lifestyle changes" based off the "right" way, they'd find this hidden cache of successful long-term maintainers.
I merely started this thread to ask for proof.
You keep trying to address what the successful are doing to maintain, to highlight the habits of the statistical 5-10%. That's a great topic, it's just not the topic of this particular thread.
Nope, that's not the issue. The issue is that those guys are doing something or some things right. But you are wilfully ignoring them.
You are not educating me on what those guys are "doing right". I am aware.
I never disputed, or discounted, that a very small section of people are doing something right.
I have never once ignored what they are doing.
The fact still remains that all of these people are still statically a part of a very small percentage of people.
This thread, yet again, isn't about what the statistical outliers are doing. This thread is asking for proof that what MFPers commonly call qualify as a "lifestyle change" leads to an improved statistical chance at long term weight loss. These claims happen literally all the time here.
Others seem to get the point. For some reason you do not. You've built a quite attractive strawman, but it's a strawman none the less.0 -
There are a few threads going on at the moment detailing various studies that show that long term weight loss management has pretty abysmal success rates.
The common rebuttal is that said studies are reflecting participants that lost weight the "wrong" way with various fads, cleanses, diet pills, etc, and that these rates do not reflect people who did it the "right" way with a "lifestyle change".
I've been looking for evidence to back up this claim and so far I've found nothing. I also haven't seen anybody on MFP actually offer solid proof either.
So I'm asking for people to please offer links to studies that show concrete evidence that "lifestyle changes" in the area of calorie counting, slow weight loss, "everything in moderation" all lead to more successful maintainers in the long run.
Thank you.
I personally would not list any of these as being lifestyle changes but methods specific to weight loss itself. I certainly will not be tracking calories for the rest of my life and definitely do not want slow weight loss now that I've reached my goal. What I would consider lifestyle changes are something like establishing a regular exercise program where none existed or consistently eating normal portions of healthy foods where previously eating mainly junk or fast food. Essentially a lifestyle change is just that, a change from what you were previously were doing and one in which you plan to continue doing so. Most when referring to lifestyle change are referring to positive ones, but they can be negative as well.0 -
There are million individual answers as to why someone regains, but its all obvious things: situations, emotions, habit, family, stress, etc etc and combinations of all. You aren't going to find one individual study "proving" this. Many on various aspects of the above, look up studies on habit forming, social eating, emotional eating, etc if you want to see that. One of the biggest things is people were not taught they had to pay attention to caloric intake as they grew up and feel entitled to just eat and not pay attention to it, and we have much much higher caloric availability today. Again I think the whole thing is common sense, and not the least bit mysterious. Basically people using articles like the one you reference as some kind of "proof" are just looking for excuses to not have to make a change to keep the weight off. And I know personally its hard to make a habit and keep that habit for the rest of your life, and you must make a habit of eating only what you burn to maintain weight, and it must be flexible to deal with what changes you encounter, this is what it really boils down to. Sorry, we just cant eat today's food and sit on our butts and maintain weight, would be nice though. We are only "doomed" to keep some kind of track of what we eat and keep it under control, and most will fall out of the habit or rebel against having to do it at some point, and then the pounds creep back on.0
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I personally would not list any of these as being lifestyle changes but methods specific to weight loss itself.
Neither would I.
But then again the very few people I know in real life who indeed have been maintaining weight loss for well over a decade never tracked calories, weighed food, lost at any prescribed rate, or anything like that.
I've personally accepted that most people do regain most, if not all, of their weight, regardless of the method of loss.
And that the small percentage of successful maintainers feature some commonalities, but also a lot of differences.
Bottom line, find what works for you and hope like hell you'll continue to work it.0 -
TIL that if I eat at a surplus long term, I will gain weight...
...and that if I eat at a deficit long term, I will lose weight...
...and that if I eat at maintenance long term, I will maintain weight.
Okay, I didn't actually learn that today...
...but this thread reminded me of the infallibility of these facts.
I suppose if I eat at a deficit for a while and then eat at maintenance for the rest of my life, I will have done what is known as a "lifestyle change"...
...but if I eat at a deficit for a while and then eventually eat at a surplus, it will be called a "diet". This is true regardless of what I called my deficit eating at the time I was doing it.
Given these terms, I suspect that a "lifestyle change" will have lasting results and a "diet" will not.
Am I missing anything?0
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