Weight Set Points - Are they real and can they change???
Spreyton22K
Posts: 323 Member
Hey there MFPer's.
My questions around this are at the other end of the scale from the usual stuff that I've found when I've Googled this topic. It seems that most of the information/advice talks about the idea of our bodies 'clinging' to a high set point and that can create difficulties for people not being able to lose weight BELOW a certain point that they may or may not be happy with.
This seems to go hand in hand with setting up a perfect storm for Yo-Yo dieting. I really struggled to find articles with any real science behind them too, most seemed to be touting promises and/or particular eating styles to overcome this issue and lose weight and that isn't what I'm after. For me I am having trouble maintaining what has become a too low body weight for me.
Just a bit of background info' because it may be helpful. Early adulthood I had a stable body weight of 125 lbs - I'm 5'5"....so that was fine. Then late 30's due to illness, meds and inactivity my weight shot up to around 264 lbs and stayed that way for over a decade. About 4 1/2 years ago I had gotten down to 198 lbs as I had stopped the meds, over eating and got my butt moving.....pace of loss was slow as a snail for some time.
Then something seemed to click and by the time I had gotten my *kitten* together with counting calories (What a miracle.....Thank Jeebus for sites like MFP) the weight came off in the usual crazy non linear way but it was faster pace and I reach my "old" Set Point of 125 lbs.....then went lower, lower and lower till by Jan 2014 I was maintaining a new Set point of 110 lbs for nearly 7 months. Now I am losing again down to 105 lbs as of yesterday.
I have Lupus am on steroids and have been doing Chemo....so it's been a brutal 12 months. Sometimes getting enough food is physically difficult due to malabsorption and nausea, am taking supplements but no 'build-up' type shakes or anything. I keep upping calories to try and off set this trend but due to above reasons I am struggling to get in lots of food, particularly bulky foods which I love and my system prefers ie. Fruits, veg, protein.
My ratios are 40/30/30 and we use butter, coconut oil, love me some almonds and full fall milk and home-made Greek Yoghurt, I have upped my calories again and they hover between 500 - 1400 (Days when I am too ill to eat much at all) up to 1800-1900 on the better days. I believe in the IIFYM style of eating and have used intermittent fasting with some benefit (ie Eating in a 4-6 hour window.....IF is something that some Lupus patients find helpful.
TL:DR I am underweight. Can upping calories again and again be the answer here or am I experiencing a "New" set point that I'm going to be stuck with forever.
Thanks for reading. Hope all of you haven't gone to bed (time zone) :drinker:
Cheers
Karen
My questions around this are at the other end of the scale from the usual stuff that I've found when I've Googled this topic. It seems that most of the information/advice talks about the idea of our bodies 'clinging' to a high set point and that can create difficulties for people not being able to lose weight BELOW a certain point that they may or may not be happy with.
This seems to go hand in hand with setting up a perfect storm for Yo-Yo dieting. I really struggled to find articles with any real science behind them too, most seemed to be touting promises and/or particular eating styles to overcome this issue and lose weight and that isn't what I'm after. For me I am having trouble maintaining what has become a too low body weight for me.
Just a bit of background info' because it may be helpful. Early adulthood I had a stable body weight of 125 lbs - I'm 5'5"....so that was fine. Then late 30's due to illness, meds and inactivity my weight shot up to around 264 lbs and stayed that way for over a decade. About 4 1/2 years ago I had gotten down to 198 lbs as I had stopped the meds, over eating and got my butt moving.....pace of loss was slow as a snail for some time.
Then something seemed to click and by the time I had gotten my *kitten* together with counting calories (What a miracle.....Thank Jeebus for sites like MFP) the weight came off in the usual crazy non linear way but it was faster pace and I reach my "old" Set Point of 125 lbs.....then went lower, lower and lower till by Jan 2014 I was maintaining a new Set point of 110 lbs for nearly 7 months. Now I am losing again down to 105 lbs as of yesterday.
I have Lupus am on steroids and have been doing Chemo....so it's been a brutal 12 months. Sometimes getting enough food is physically difficult due to malabsorption and nausea, am taking supplements but no 'build-up' type shakes or anything. I keep upping calories to try and off set this trend but due to above reasons I am struggling to get in lots of food, particularly bulky foods which I love and my system prefers ie. Fruits, veg, protein.
My ratios are 40/30/30 and we use butter, coconut oil, love me some almonds and full fall milk and home-made Greek Yoghurt, I have upped my calories again and they hover between 500 - 1400 (Days when I am too ill to eat much at all) up to 1800-1900 on the better days. I believe in the IIFYM style of eating and have used intermittent fasting with some benefit (ie Eating in a 4-6 hour window.....IF is something that some Lupus patients find helpful.
TL:DR I am underweight. Can upping calories again and again be the answer here or am I experiencing a "New" set point that I'm going to be stuck with forever.
Thanks for reading. Hope all of you haven't gone to bed (time zone) :drinker:
Cheers
Karen
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Replies
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At some point your "weight" is definitely your bones and organs.
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From what I have gathered, there isn't hard science to support "set points." I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with that, and I could be wrong. My take is that often we think we are doing thing differently, but we often are probably eating and moving in a way that is pretty habitual and keeps us at a certain weight. I've seen several articles that show when people think they are "stuck at a set point" they are actually just inaccurate about their calories.
Of course, medical issues can really confuse things. Before I was diagnosed with Type-I diabetes, I was eating around 4000 calories a day and dropping weight like crazy, and when I asked a trainer at the gym if something was wrong with me, he said "you must just be lucky." Insulin allowed me to absorb calories and made me blow up quickly, and it took me years to balance my weight back out.
I'm sorry your health issues make it hard for you to eat- that's awful. I'm guessing your average calories end up being pretty low, which is causing your weight loss. Keep focusing on getting lots of nutrients- maybe your Dr. has some advice? (Of course, in my experience most Dr.'s nutrition advice has been horrible.)
I hope your health improves and you can fully enjoy eating again!0 -
At that weight your body is saying No Mas.0
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Thanks for the replies and the kind thoughts CJMQ.
I don't understand what you mean hearthwood what is No Mas.0 -
Getting between 500 to 1400 calories a day still means you are in a deficit, it is no wonder you are still losing weight. Your body will not stop at any certain predetermined set point - the science behind 'set points' is murky at best.
You are still losing because of the deficit, not some set point. Give up the IF (you are underweight and it will only make it harder for you to get enough calories to stop the decline) and start eating some calorie dense options, like nut butters, ice cream, full fat dairy, avocados, etc.0 -
Hey there MFPer's.
My questions around this are at the other end of the scale from the usual stuff that I've found when I've Googled this topic. It seems that most of the information/advice talks about the idea of our bodies 'clinging' to a high set point and that can create difficulties for people not being able to lose weight BELOW a certain point that they may or may not be happy with.
This seems to go hand in hand with setting up a perfect storm for Yo-Yo dieting. I really struggled to find articles with any real science behind them too, most seemed to be touting promises and/or particular eating styles to overcome this issue and lose weight and that isn't what I'm after. For me I am having trouble maintaining what has become a too low body weight for me.
Just a bit of background info' because it may be helpful. Early adulthood I had a stable body weight of 125 lbs - I'm 5'5"....so that was fine. Then late 30's due to illness, meds and inactivity my weight shot up to around 264 lbs and stayed that way for over a decade. About 4 1/2 years ago I had gotten down to 198 lbs as I had stopped the meds, over eating and got my butt moving.....pace of loss was slow as a snail for some time.
Then something seemed to click and by the time I had gotten my *kitten* together with counting calories (What a miracle.....Thank Jeebus for sites like MFP) the weight came off in the usual crazy non linear way but it was faster pace and I reach my "old" Set Point of 125 lbs.....then went lower, lower and lower till by Jan 2014 I was maintaining a new Set point of 110 lbs for nearly 7 months. Now I am losing again down to 105 lbs as of yesterday.
I have Lupus am on steroids and have been doing Chemo....so it's been a brutal 12 months. Sometimes getting enough food is physically difficult due to malabsorption and nausea, am taking supplements but no 'build-up' type shakes or anything. I keep upping calories to try and off set this trend but due to above reasons I am struggling to get in lots of food, particularly bulky foods which I love and my system prefers ie. Fruits, veg, protein.
My ratios are 40/30/30 and we use butter, coconut oil, love me some almonds and full fall milk and home-made Greek Yoghurt, I have upped my calories again and they hover between 500 - 1400 (Days when I am too ill to eat much at all) up to 1800-1900 on the better days. I believe in the IIFYM style of eating and have used intermittent fasting with some benefit (ie Eating in a 4-6 hour window.....IF is something that some Lupus patients find helpful.
TL:DR I am underweight. Can upping calories again and again be the answer here or am I experiencing a "New" set point that I'm going to be stuck with forever.
Thanks for reading. Hope all of you haven't gone to bed (time zone) :drinker:
Cheers
Karen
Karen, with Chemo you lose wt. it is brutal so with your malabsorption and nausea you are going to find it hard to gain or even maintain... I suggest you get Boost or Ensure, one of those supplement meals you drink, and maybe you can gain or at the very least maintain until some of the nausea is over. Some of the Ensures are not a milk type base but more of a juice base so maybe you can keep it down. Good luck times will change for you soon and you'll be a on more level road I'm sure.0 -
cwoyto.....brutal answer and I am upping calories over and over. It seems as though you didn't bother to read ALL that I wrote and that sad for me, because you obviously don't understand my predicament.
quietbloom.... Wow.......I don't know if it's my writing that sucks at getting my question across. 'Quiet' how you have written your reply seems really harsh to me and gives me the idea that you missed some vital points.
To clarify the IF is a last resort when my guts are such a mess they need a break. The 500-1400 I explained does happen....*kitten* when you are sick. Trying to get at least 1900 when I can and will try more and more....didn't you see where I said I have full fat everything and follow IIFYM so yeah I do get in as much extras as I can but often things like chocolate, icecream end up making making malabsorbtion issues worse.0 -
Hey there MFPer's.
My questions around this are at the other end of the scale from the usual stuff that I've found when I've Googled this topic. It seems that most of the information/advice talks about the idea of our bodies 'clinging' to a high set point and that can create difficulties for people not being able to lose weight BELOW a certain point that they may or may not be happy with.
This seems to go hand in hand with setting up a perfect storm for Yo-Yo dieting. I really struggled to find articles with any real science behind them too, most seemed to be touting promises and/or particular eating styles to overcome this issue and lose weight and that isn't what I'm after. For me I am having trouble maintaining what has become a too low body weight for me.
Just a bit of background info' because it may be helpful. Early adulthood I had a stable body weight of 125 lbs - I'm 5'5"....so that was fine. Then late 30's due to illness, meds and inactivity my weight shot up to around 264 lbs and stayed that way for over a decade. About 4 1/2 years ago I had gotten down to 198 lbs as I had stopped the meds, over eating and got my butt moving.....pace of loss was slow as a snail for some time.
Then something seemed to click and by the time I had gotten my *kitten* together with counting calories (What a miracle.....Thank Jeebus for sites like MFP) the weight came off in the usual crazy non linear way but it was faster pace and I reach my "old" Set Point of 125 lbs.....then went lower, lower and lower till by Jan 2014 I was maintaining a new Set point of 110 lbs for nearly 7 months. Now I am losing again down to 105 lbs as of yesterday.
I have Lupus am on steroids and have been doing Chemo....so it's been a brutal 12 months. Sometimes getting enough food is physically difficult due to malabsorption and nausea, am taking supplements but no 'build-up' type shakes or anything. I keep upping calories to try and off set this trend but due to above reasons I am struggling to get in lots of food, particularly bulky foods which I love and my system prefers ie. Fruits, veg, protein.
My ratios are 40/30/30 and we use butter, coconut oil, love me some almonds and full fall milk and home-made Greek Yoghurt, I have upped my calories again and they hover between 500 - 1400 (Days when I am too ill to eat much at all) up to 1800-1900 on the better days. I believe in the IIFYM style of eating and have used intermittent fasting with some benefit (ie Eating in a 4-6 hour window.....IF is something that some Lupus patients find helpful.
TL:DR I am underweight. Can upping calories again and again be the answer here or am I experiencing a "New" set point that I'm going to be stuck with.Karen, with Chemo you lose wt. it is brutal so with your malabsorption and nausea you are going to find it hard to gain or even maintain... I suggest you get Boost or Ensure, one of those supplement meals you drink, and maybe you can gain or at the very least maintain until some of the nausea is over. Some of the Ensures are not a milk type base but more of a juice base so maybe you can keep it down. Good luck times will change for you soon and you'll be a on more level road I'm sure.
Thanks for the thoughts mate....I agree I think it is more than time to try some supplemental things like you have suggested. The Ensures sound promising with the juice base as there is a point where too much milk causes more problems gut wise. :grumble:0 -
What are you talking about? Seriously. You're underweight, eat more.
TL:DR I am underweight. Can upping calories again and again be the answer here or am I experiencing a "New" set point that I'm going to be stuck with forever.
The meds she's on makes "just eat more" much harder than it sounds. I've been there, it's rough.0 -
Karen how attached are you to IF?0
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I don't think that "set points" are related to weight loss from chemotherapy. I think that you should just focus on getting as many calories as you can, both healthy and unhealthy. Your body is in one of the most physically stressful situations a human body will ever endure. I wouldn't worry too much about IIFYM -- I would worry about calories during your chemotherapy. Your body really needs the energy, and at 100 pounds you don't have many fat reserves left.
Can you meet with a dietitian who specializes in working with chemo patients? That would definitely be the best course of action.0 -
Have you considered asking your doctor who prescribed the chemo for a referral to a nutritionist or dietitian who specializes in chemo patients? I'm just thinking that maybe they can suggest foods that are high in calories and nutrition that will be easier for you to absorb and won't cause problems.0
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You're stuck and you can never ever gain weight. Even if you slammed back a whole jar of peanut butter a day you wouldn't gain a pound. This is your cross to bear. I hope you are strong enough to handle it.
That's unnecessary.
Everyone has their own "cross to bear" as you put it. And yes, being too sick to keep down food is a burden, whatever you may think.0 -
Karen,
I am sorry to hear that you have lupus. Autoimmune diseases are awful to live with. Unfortunately, the treatment (chemo) can make you feel as bad as the disease. In addition to Ensure or Boost, you could try juicing or blending your fruits & veggies into smoothies with or without protein powder. Anything you can keep down is good. My grandmother used to drink V8 juice because she could keep that down. Her solid food of choice was poptarts with butter on them. She had cancer; my dad has rheumatoid arthritis and I have celiac disease so I know about autoimmune disease and the mess it makes of your insides. I wish you luck on your journey.
Mel0 -
Karen how attached are you to IF?
Not committed to IF....used as a last resort to give my guts a rest and try to arrest the malabsorption issues....Gasto' specialist recommended it .
Will ask for a referral as soon a possible to a Nutritionist....I think maybe some fresh eyes could help.
To the particularly callous insulting cross to bear comment....that is just in really poor taste and unnecessary. For others upping calories in this situation has a real lot of issues that come with being so ill......I am upping them but often the symptoms are out of control and I'm doing the best I can.
To all others Thank you for your ideas, comments and empathy. Particularly thank Heavy Acrylics
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cwoyto.....brutal answer and I am upping calories over and over. It seems as though you didn't bother to read ALL that I wrote and that sad for me, because you obviously don't understand my predicament.
quietbloom.... Wow.......I don't know if it's my writing that sucks at getting my question across. 'Quiet' how you have written your reply seems really harsh to me and gives me the idea that you missed some vital points.
To clarify the IF is a last resort when my guts are such a mess they need a break. The 500-1400 I explained does happen....*kitten* when you are sick. Trying to get at least 1900 when I can and will try more and more....didn't you see where I said I have full fat everything and follow IIFYM so yeah I do get in as much extras as I can but often things like chocolate, icecream end up making making malabsorbtion issues worse.
Sorry you thought my post was harsh. Your post was kind of all over the map as far as information, so I was addressing the fact that you love high fiber low calorie foods, and do IF. And I did address the set point question, so there was that as well. I'm glad you do full fat everything, I am just suggesting you do MORE full fat and find options that (obviously) don't make your issues worse.
Best wishes to you on your treatment and recovery.
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Any kind of medical routine can affect your weight. Chemo is especialy brutal. I'm not a doctor so I'm not going to address that.
I don't think we have a set point, but we probably have a weight that we look best at. I'm 5'4 and curvy. I weigh a bit less than 130lb and am aiming at 125. Any lower than that, I look terrible. I have an hour glass figure and my hips will only get so slim, by bust doesn't change when I lose weight, but my face gets gaunt. I had a burst appendix years ago and went down to 118. I looked awful and couldn't maintain it anyway. I went back up to about 125 without even trying. I feel pretty good about my body even now.
I am 67 and studying to be a Zumba instructor to seniors. Many don't eat enough or are too sedentary or have medical problems, but any exercise can help them look and feel better, as well as increase their brain capacity. They say people who exercise live 2 to four years longer than those who don't.0 -
I'm sorry, I don't really have any advice. I just wanted to say that I hope you get you lupus under the best control that you can and you start feeling better soon. In my opinion, there is not much worse than feeling so sick that you can't eat. I know when my dad was on chemo, about the only thing he could eat was canned ravioli. I know, pretty disgusting, but it was easy to chew and he could tolerate it. Don't know if you could, but it is the only helpful example I have. Good luck.0
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Your disease is obviously causing issues that may not work with conventional styles of eating. Probably much better to confer with a dietician who has much more experience with your condition.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
.oops error. Ignore.0
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Sorry you are dealing with this. I have MS and while I haven't done chemo, I have some experience with autoimmune diseases and meds that mess up your guts.
I hope you're able to find a nutritionist who is able to really help you.
Re the set point question, I really don't think what you're experiencing is a new set point but more the issue of the chemo and how it's affecting your body and the resulting deficit. Wishing you all the best!0 -
I'm a tech nerd, so no nutritional background for anything I will say to you. That said, I feel the set weight most people experience is simply because that is where they are comfortable at. The body tells you when you are hungry, and unless you are actively trying to change that, you will remain at the same weight. Starting exercise will cause you to lose weight if you eat the same, while deferring to the couch will cause you to gain weight since you are burning less calories. It's not because your body has an internal scale that says you should weight XX pounds, but rather that is the weight your lifestyle maintains.
Eat more calories than you take in (I know this is difficult for you now, but keep trying!), and you will gain weight eventually. If eating a certain macronutrient -lets say fat- makes your stomach turn, eat less of that macro. Ultimately, you are better off gaining weight any way you can, than missing your calorie goal because you are trying to fit macros. Once you are on the right path, THEN worry about getting your nutrition in line. Again, no nutritional background for any of this, just my opinion!0 -
At some point your "weight" is definitely your bones and organs.
This gif is scaring me.0 -
Karen,
I don't have any advice, but I do want to say I'm sorry for all you have been going through and send some good thoughts out to you. Hang in there.0 -
I don't understand this gif.At some point your "weight" is definitely your bones and organs.0 -
To all who have taken the time to come in with helpful suggestions I want to take the time to Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Since writing the question I have been back to the Doctor and he has changed some medicines in an effort to get the symptoms under control. I got weighed and there was more downward trend so he is getting the referral done for a dietician who works with Cancer patients at one of the nearby hospitals so hopefully they may be able to lend their expertise.
In the meantime I have got myself some hospital strength nutritional build-up powder from the pharmacy....it's a bit icky but it's worth it. When I can't stomach real food this stuff is packed so thanks to those that suggested this.
Other suggestions of just getting in the calories and don't mind where the macros fall has been totally taken on board....not that I was really worried about it anyway. I'm having whatever I want when I want it. So there have been a couple of late night runs to the supermarket for my favourite Kit Kat chocolate bars. :blushing: Sorry Stephen....the petrol money is coming through as we speak.
To ALL those kind hearted souls who wrote messages of support and cheer :flowerforyou:
For those in similar situations either illness wise or medication wise my heart goes out to you all. Walking a mile in another's shoes is a very powerful thing and health is never to be taken for granted.....sadly without good health everything else becomes pretty difficult and often meaningless.
Special Thanks to:
I Lift Heavy Acrylics: Public shout for being such a wonderful friend, brave and a rock XX 0 -
That's all good news, Karen. I hope the dietician is helpful.0 -
I've taken care of family members who were undergoing chemo and it is really difficult for them to keep their weight up to a healthy level. Additionally, chemo seemed to change their sense of taste, so it was difficult for them to enjoy eating, even foods that they previously loved. Ice cream always seemed to be a hit when other foods weren't, but I'm sure tastes vary from person to person. We also tried Ensure, Boost, etc. Honestly, I would not focus on macros, focus on finding foods you like to eat unless your doctor feels otherwise.0
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I know little of lupus but I watched my dad go thru chemo and I know how much it affects your ability to taste, eat, or keep anything down. I'm glad you have some new options to try and I wish you health restored :flowerforyou:0
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I'm late on this thread and really can't add much but I have RA, SpA and Crohn's - so autoimmune craziness over here, and the crohn's really made it hard to get the nutrition I needed (when it was more active). My only recommendation is one you're already pursuing - see a nutritionist. I saw one and it was VERY helpful in terms of finding ways to get what I needed to keep myself from total exhaustion.
Also, I wouldn't worry about set point or future weight at this point. Yes, the disease messes with your body and you may eventually end up with a very different metabolism - work that out if it happens. Right now, deal with the day to day. One day, your body will be in a better place and you'll have more bandwidth to worry about weight (whatever that will be).
The disease, the meds -all of it sucks. I'm so sorry you're feeling so sick right now.0
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