How important is protein?

lauraelizafit
lauraelizafit Posts: 8
in Food and Nutrition
I'm wanting to gain some muscle, especially to tone my tummy. I read a bunch or articles online that says you have to consume protein either before or after a workout and before you go to sleep to ensure your body doesnt break down your muscle, but is it really necessary? Atm I run for a hr 5 times a week (in the mornings) and then work in 4 15min ab workouts during the day and I'm adding a extra 15min of leg and arm workouts (on separate days) from tomorrow. So will consuming protein before or after my runs and before I go to sleep aid in building muscle or will it be useless if I get enough protein in during my daily meals? Also, can anyone pleas give me any other advice with toning my stomach and how long till I see results. Thanks :)
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Replies

  • ATT949
    ATT949 Posts: 1,245 Member
    I'm wanting to gain some muscle, especially to tone my tummy. I read a bunch or articles online that says you have to consume protein either before or after a workout and before you go to sleep to ensure your body doesnt break down your muscle, but is it really necessary? Atm I run for a hr 5 times a week (in the mornings) and then work in 4 15min ab workouts during the day and I'm adding a extra 15min of leg and arm workouts (on separate days) from tomorrow. So will consuming protein before or after my runs and before I go to sleep aid in building muscle or will it be useless if I get enough protein in during my daily meals? Also, can anyone pleas give me any other advice with toning my stomach and how long till I see results. Thanks :)

    When we exercise, we subject our muscles to stress that realists in "micro-tears". This is a normal consequence of a workout. The muscles repair themselves during "recovery" and, as a result of recovery, we become stronger and/or more fit.

    My interest is running and, in that world, we only need about 1 gm per kilo of body weight. Sites that sell protein, recommend up to 1.5 but I've never seen any sounds research that recommends more than 1 gm/kg.

    Greg McMillan, of McMillan Running, recommends only about 0.8 which I feel is kinda low but Greg has trained far more Olympians that I have! :-)

    In my diet, I aim for about 100 gm/day, which is a bit over 1.2 gm/kg but I end up going over that, unfortunately. The only qualm with additional protein is that we just urinate most of it out, hence the comment that "Americans have the most expensive urine in the world."

    Eat some protein before a workout? Personally, I wouldn't bother but I wouldn't avoid it either.

    Bigger issue is post-run feeding and that's when we get to be a kid again — chocolate milk. It's got the CHO we need and it also has the right balance of CHO and protein (the world of science tells us that 4 to 1 is the best CHO to protein ratio).

    Today, was a brutal run for me (two days in a row-ugh) so I scarfed down a quart of chocolate milk and a banana. Yum!


    Toning your stomach - "toning" is a marketing word. It's used to sell gym memberships but, in terms of developing muscle or endurance, it's a non sequitur.

    If you want folks to see your abs, do a lot of ab work (enthusiastic sex is a good workout for guys) and then lose body fat.
  • lauraelizafit
    lauraelizafit Posts: 8
    Awesome! Thanks for the help :) think I'll stick to my usual routine of eating after my morning run and try and work in a few extra gms of protein :)
  • fitness_faeiry
    fitness_faeiry Posts: 354 Member
    Good advice above. I stick to 1 gram per pound of bodyweight or thereabouts, and try and get protein in every meal (I eat 5-6 times a day). Its great to have a protein shake (fast absorbing) after a workout to fuel those muscles. Stick to this and you cant go wrong
  • cmacr
    cmacr Posts: 6 Member
    Hi there, you don't tone a muscle so to speak, its more to do with how much muscle you have/grow and how much body fat you are carrying.

    Doing ab work certainly will help build up; the muscles in you stomach as any exercise will do for its targeted area but will not make them show.

    The key to showing off your abs is a low body fat percentage, now everyone is different in that respect, you will find as you lose body fat around your abdomen your abs will begin to show through.

    The whole meal window theory is completely irrelevant to the ordinary person, eat when it is convenient for you to do so, your body knows what to do with the food you eat regardless of time.

    Meal timing only becomes relevant when you are at an "elite" level (think competitive body-builder, athletes etc., particularly ones that use performance enhancing drugs as they need to be very strict in that respect because of what they take-remember this is these peoples job).

    What you need to do if you want to gain a bit of muscle, is forget about having visible abs to start with, eat at a small calorie surplus first so you can build up the desired amount of muscle.

    Looking at your picture you don't seem to be carrying much bodyfat, so the best way to reach your goals would be to do some full body resistance/weight training 3 times per week (no more), continue your cardio if you want.

    Once you reach your desired amount of muscle, begin eating at a deficit, weight train, do some cardio, your body will lose fat and you will begin to see definition in all your muscles. As is the case for most people the stomach area is often the last thing to come off so stick with it and you will get your results :smile:
  • riadhdeb
    riadhdeb Posts: 211 Member
    Its a waste of moeny and it will make u fat, If u get enough protein from food then thats all u need
  • Iron_Feline
    Iron_Feline Posts: 10,750 Member
    Its a waste of moeny and it will make u fat, If u get enough protein from food then thats all u need

    Sorry what now?

    Excess calories make you fat.

    I aim for a minimum if 100g of protein a day that's roughy 1g per pound of lbm. Getting a good amount of protein. Does help you retain muscle when dieting if you combine it with lifting - you need to remind your body that you use and want to keep your muscles :wink:

    Add in some resistance work either weights or bodyweightto help keep you muscle while you lose the fat :flowerforyou:

    Oh and I use protein whey to help hit my protein target some days, it's not a waste of money if you use it correctly. I had a protein shake for breakfast as I was short of time this morning. Scoop of chocolate protein power, raspberries and some yogurt. Quick and filling.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Unless you are lifting heavy, or nursing an injury, for a mainly aerobic exercise regime you probably do not need any more than 0.7g per pound of Lean mass.

    For your type of exercise, unless you are completely depleting your glycogen stores during your run, when you eat is not really that important - just as long as you do.
  • Iron_Feline
    Iron_Feline Posts: 10,750 Member
    Unless you are lifting heavy, or nursing an injury, for a mainly aerobic exercise regime you probably do not need any more than 0.7g per pound of Lean mass.

    For your type of exercise, unless you are completely depleting your glycogen stores during your run, when you eat is not really that important - just as long as you do.

    Except that they are trying to gain muscle - so 1g per lb of lbm is more advisable.

    OP - I take it you are eating at a surplus, doing a bulk as that is the easiest way to gain muscle - posting in the gaining weight section might get you better answers - or try the group eat, train, progress.

    If you are a beginner to weights a solid full body workout will probably be more beneficial to gaining muscle. Have you looked at stronglifts 5x5 or new rules of lifting for women?

    As for 'toning' your stomach that comes from losing fat - and doing a full body weight workout will help with that.

    I suspect your 15 minute arm and leg workouts won't achieve the desired results. Sorry.


    EDIT: I just checked out your other posts - you won't gain muscle on a 1200 cal a day diet, I'm also concerned that you've got that you want to lose 30lbs - if that picture is yourself then there isn't 30lbs to lose - what is your actual goal?
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Unless you are lifting heavy, or nursing an injury, for a mainly aerobic exercise regime you probably do not need any more than 0.7g per pound of Lean mass.

    For your type of exercise, unless you are completely depleting your glycogen stores during your run, when you eat is not really that important - just as long as you do.

    Except that they are trying to gain muscle - so 1g per lb of lbm is more advisable.

    OP - I take it you are eating at a surplus, doing a bulk as that is the easiest way to gain muscle - posting in the gaining weight section might get you better answers - or try the group eat, train, progress.

    If you are a beginner to weights a solid full body workout will probably be more beneficial to gaining muscle. Have you looked at stronglifts 5x5 or new rules of lifting for women?

    As for 'toning' your stomach that comes from losing fat - and doing a full body weight workout will help with that.

    I suspect your 15 minute arm and leg workouts won't achieve the desired results. Sorry.


    EDIT: I just checked out your other posts - you won't gain muscle on a 1200 cal a day diet, I'm also concerned that you've got that you want to lose 30lbs - if that picture is yourself then there isn't 30lbs to lose - what is your actual goal?

    I took it the OP wasn't looking to actually gain muscle, but to increase her lean mass percentage!

    Based on the exercise she has put down in the post 0.7g is probably tops of what she needs, although 1g will do not harm.
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member


    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

    complete waste as in not even converted to glucose and used as energy?
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

    Made up figures are made up.

    And more on why percentages are the wrong way to set up a diet:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

    Made up figures are made up.

    And more on why percentages are the wrong way to set up a diet:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

    Opinion articles are always much better to rely on when considering health and nutrition rather than actual science.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

    Made up figures are made up.

    And more on why percentages are the wrong way to set up a diet:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

    Opinion articles are always much better to rely on when considering health and nutrition rather than actual science.

    Please cite the "science" that states that percentages are better than g/kg when determining macronutrient requirements.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    12 men. Stunning.

    Nitrogen-balance as the metric (which tends to underestimate protein requirements).

    And then there is this:
    These data indicate that, during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training, PRO needs are approximately 100% greater than current recommendations
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member


    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008
    The recommended intake (requirement + 2 SD) was 1.6-1.7 g.kg-1.day-1.
    PRO needs are approximately 100% greater than current recommendations

    I'm sure those young men in the study were on a caloric surplus where protein as a % of calorie intake is lowered.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    Your study only included 12 out of shape men and only lasted for 1 month. Furthermore your 0.75g/lb number does not seem supported by the abstract.
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    "These data indicate that, during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training, PRO needs are approximately 100% greater than current recommendations but that PROIN increases from 1.35 to 2.62 g.kg-1.day-1 do not enhance muscle mass/strength gains, at least during the 1st mo of training. Whether differential gains would occur with longer training remains to be determined."

    1.35 g/kg comes out to around 12.6% protein by calories based on a RMR + 50% RMR caloric needs.

    Do you have ANY science that shows people need more more protein? Or are you only going to post opinion articles and throw attacks at me for posting studies that contradict your unsubstantiated opinions?
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    Your study only included 12 out of shape men and only lasted for 1 month. Furthermore your 0.75g/lb number does not seem supported by the abstract.

    "The recommended intake (requirement + 2 SD) was 1.6-1.7 g.kg-1.day-1."

    How does the length of the study change the validity of the data? The largest effect of exercise is found in untrained individuals.
  • DYELB
    DYELB Posts: 7,407 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    12 people

    Less than a month

    ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

    In to learn more about how I can optimize my athletic performance and meet my LBM goals on no more than ~75g of protein daily.
  • DYELB
    DYELB Posts: 7,407 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    12 people

    Less than a month

    ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

    I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

    Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

    The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    12 people

    Less than a month

    ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

    I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

    Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

    The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.

    .8 g/pound for someone someone moderately active and burning an extra 50% of RMR calories in training comes out to around 13% protein by calories.

    Percentage actually does address how hard someone may be bulking or cutting. If a powerlifter burning double the calories per day of a highly active individual a day uses the 0.8 g/lb, then the recommendation says they need less than 8% protein by calories. If they consume 13% protein by calories, then they increase their total protein intake as they work harder.
  • DYELB
    DYELB Posts: 7,407 Member
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    12 people

    Less than a month

    ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

    I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

    Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

    The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.

    .8 g/pound for someone someone moderately active and burning an extra 50% of RMR calories in training comes out to around 13% protein by calories.

    Percentage actually does address how hard someone may be bulking or cutting. If a powerlifter burning double the calories per day of a highly active individual a day uses the 0.8 g/lb, then the recommendation says they need less than 8% protein by calories. If they consume 13% protein by calories, then they increase their total protein intake as they work harder.

    That assumes that the added protein is necessary, which is not a leap any of the studies I listed or the one you listed made. According to Lyle protein is actually more important with bigger cuts.

    ETA: My primary contention with this is the comment that 15% is the most you could need.

    take a 200 lb, 25 year old male that's 20% BF and works out 3x per week.

    0.8 grams per pound comes to 160 grams of protein, or 640 calories.

    Katch-McCardle puts TDEE at 2669.

    Even eating maintenance that's nearly 24%. If he were cutting it would be higher.
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

    Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

    Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.
    studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

    If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

    Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

    12 people

    Less than a month

    ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

    I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

    Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

    The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.

    .8 g/pound for someone someone moderately active and burning an extra 50% of RMR calories in training comes out to around 13% protein by calories.

    Percentage actually does address how hard someone may be bulking or cutting. If a powerlifter burning double the calories per day of a highly active individual a day uses the 0.8 g/lb, then the recommendation says they need less than 8% protein by calories. If they consume 13% protein by calories, then they increase their total protein intake as they work harder.

    That assumes that the added protein is necessary, which is not a leap any of the studies I listed or the one you listed made. According to Lyle protein is actually more important with bigger cuts.

    What added protein? Are you taking 8%-13% or more than 13%?
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    Do you have ANY science that shows people need more more protein? Or are you only going to post opinion articles and throw attacks at me for posting studies that contradict your unsubstantiated opinions?

    There is literally a plethora of research out there on optimal protein intake. The reason your study on out of shape men is bad is for several reasons:

    1. Out of shape individuals have higher body fat percentages. Protein intake is more dependent on LEAN body mass than total body mass.
    2. If the individuals didn't have a caloric surplus, then they probably won't gain much muscle over just 1 month anyway. It usually takes 6 weeks of weight training to find a measurable difference in muscle size.
    3. Your body is actually more efficient with protein when bulking then cutting. High protein is even more important when losing weight to prevent muscle loss than it is when gaining weight to build muscle.

    Since there are so many conflicting studies on protein intake out there, I'm just going to post a very basic review that has numerous links to studies:
    http://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/
  • VeganCappy
    VeganCappy Posts: 122
    Do you have ANY science that shows people need more more protein? Or are you only going to post opinion articles and throw attacks at me for posting studies that contradict your unsubstantiated opinions?

    There is literally a plethora of research out there on optimal protein intake. The reason your study on out of shape men is bad is for several reasons:

    1. Out of shape individuals have higher body fat percentages. Protein intake is more dependent on LEAN body mass than total body mass.
    2. If the individuals didn't have a caloric surplus, then they probably won't gain much muscle over just 1 month anyway. It usually takes 6 weeks of weight training to find a measurable difference in muscle size.
    3. Your body is actually more efficient with protein when bulking then cutting. High protein is even more important when losing weight to prevent muscle loss than it is when gaining weight to build muscle.

    Since there are so many conflicting studies on protein intake out there, I'm just going to post a very basic review that has numerous links to studies:
    http://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

    The article to which you linked actually supports everything I have been saying.

    "If you have a physically demanding job, you walk a lot, run, swim or do any sort of exercise, then you need more protein. Endurance athletes also need quite a bit of protein, about 0.5 – 0.65 grams per pound, or 1.2 – 1.4 grams per kg (18, 19)."
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    Do you have ANY science that shows people need more more protein? Or are you only going to post opinion articles and throw attacks at me for posting studies that contradict your unsubstantiated opinions?

    There is literally a plethora of research out there on optimal protein intake. The reason your study on out of shape men is bad is for several reasons:

    1. Out of shape individuals have higher body fat percentages. Protein intake is more dependent on LEAN body mass than total body mass.
    2. If the individuals didn't have a caloric surplus, then they probably won't gain much muscle over just 1 month anyway. It usually takes 6 weeks of weight training to find a measurable difference in muscle size.
    3. Your body is actually more efficient with protein when bulking then cutting. High protein is even more important when losing weight to prevent muscle loss than it is when gaining weight to build muscle.

    Since there are so many conflicting studies on protein intake out there, I'm just going to post a very basic review that has numerous links to studies:
    http://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

    The article to which you linked actually supports everything I have been saying.

    "If you have a physically demanding job, you walk a lot, run, swim or do any sort of exercise, then you need more protein. Endurance athletes also need quite a bit of protein, about 0.5 – 0.65 grams per pound, or 1.2 – 1.4 grams per kg (18, 19)."

    Here are some quotes from the article that you seem to have missed:

    "Bottom Line: A protein intake at around 30% of calories seems to be optimal for weight loss. It boosts the metabolic rate and causes a spontaneous reduction in calorie intake."

    "If you’re carrying a lot of body fat, then it is a good idea to use either your lean mass or your goal weight, instead of total body weight, because it’s mostly your lean mass that determines the amount of protein you need. Bottom Line: It is important to eat enough protein if you want to gain and/or maintain muscle. Most studies suggest that 0.7 – 1 grams per pound of lean mass (1.5 – 2.2 grams per kg) is sufficient."

    "But given that there is no evidence of harm and significant evidence of benefit, I think it is better for most people to err on the side of more protein rather than less."

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