What am I doing wrong? (I would love a second set of eyes!)

ElisetheQ
ElisetheQ Posts: 58 Member
in Food and Nutrition
*Warning, long, frustrated rant post follows*

I know there are hundreds of posts out there similar to mine. And like everyone else that posts their own anyway, I can't help but feel like my situation is unique (well, isn't everybody's to a certain extent?) and I just want a little guidance.

I'm 5' 10", 221 lbs.

I've been doing weight watcher's for about 3.5 months. In the first 6-7 weeks, I lost 18 lbs (started at 241 lbs). I just changed my eating habits (and boy, they were so much worse than I had thought!), I was living a sedentary lifestyle (to be honest, I thought I was pretty active as a preschool teacher).

Then, I added the gym. And progress slowly stopped.

I started by doing spin 3 days a week. Then adding some group classes, strength (2-3x a week), cardio (5x a week), and yoga (3x a week).

I've built up to working out 2-3 hours a day, and burning from 1200-1800 calories, 5 days a week. I use a heart rate monitor to determine caloric burn.

Now, I feel great. I can see some muscle definition building in my arms and legs. However, the scale, nor my measurements, have budged in the last month, when I really started picking up my time at the gym.

Doing Weight Watchers, I don't count calories, just points. This morning, after weighing and measuring and not having any losses *again*, I decided to plug my last week's worth of food and exercise into MFP and see what was going on.

My points seem to put me at around 1500 cals a day, and I usually eat about that many.
As I'm now realizing, I'm burning almost 100% of what I eat, every week day with my workouts.

Now, the tricky part. I've read up and down on the elusive "starvation mode: myth or fact?" there are some pretty radical thoughts on either side ... and quite frankly, I'm not sure what to believe. On one hand, it makes sense. Your body needs calories to operate. On the others, even people with eating disorders or who are actually starving DO lose weight.

Is it as simple as eating more? But if that was the case, shouldn't I still be seeing lost SOMEWHERE? I don't think I"m losing muscle; I eat a ton of protein and can see definition. I just also want to see inches lost and pounds would be nice too. ;)


Thanks for your time. Like I said, I know there are a zillion posts out there like this, and I've read a bunch. I guess I just won't be satisfied until I can actually have my own sounding board and see what other people advise for my specific case. I do actually feel a little bad for making this a post; however, I feel pretty desperate at this point. I just want to be healthy and happy.
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Replies

  • ValerieMartini2Olives
    ValerieMartini2Olives Posts: 3,041 Member
    why on earth are you working out 2-3 hours a day?
  • seidel1325
    seidel1325 Posts: 94 Member
    You're food looks on point. I think you are probably just overestimating your calorie burn. With warm up and cool down times, I probably wouldn't log more than 400-500 calories/hour for a spin class. Strength training is great and you should keep that up, but once again I probably wouldn't log more than 200 calories/hour for a session. Also, if you are using an elliptical the actual burn is only about 65% of the readout on the display. The one piece of equipment that is closest "true to actual burn" is the treadmill - unfortunately most people despise it. You might want to try it for a week to figure out how your calorie burn compares to your perceived exertion then when you transition back to spin class you can figure out whether you think you are working harder or easier than when you were on the treadmill (and get a better idea if your calorie burn estimate is accurate).
  • ElisetheQ
    ElisetheQ Posts: 58 Member
    Well, I work out that often because now I enjoy it, haha. And I'm a teacher, so I'm currently off for the summer. Gotta make it count!

    And I should have put this on my OP (I'll edit it) but I'm using a Polar FT4 heart rate monitor to gauge calories burned.
    I don't know if it's possible that my HRM is giving me inaccurate cals, but it's based on my age, height, and weight.

    But even if my workout calories are much lower than what my HRM says, I still keep to about 1500 calories a day, not including the exercise burn. Shouldn't I still be losing something?
  • Nursehendrick
    Nursehendrick Posts: 3 Member
    Hi Elise
    I am in the same boat as you. I am 5''11" and weigh the same as you. I have started Nutrisystem 11 weeks ago and in the first few weeks I was very sedentary. During those weeks I lost 10 pounds. However, I started doing P90x3 and staying within my calories and I have in fact gained weight. I did a lot of research about this and what I was reminded is that muscle weighs more than fat, which I am sure you know. I was told not to focus on the scale at all. It is very hard not to when that is our measurement tool. I also read that muscles become swollen after working out, which holds onto water. This can have an impact on the scale as well. As far as measurements, I would only check measurements once per month. I have gone by how my clothes feel and nothing else at this point.
    Years ago I dropped 40 pounds on Jenny Craig. At that time I was exercising minimally. When I increased my exercise I did not drop another pound. I think that's you should go by how you feel while you exercise. If you look in the mirror and you feel better about yourself then that should be your measurement. I am interested to hear other people's thoughts as well.

    I feel that the input I am giving you is the same as other people's responses on other forums. However, I am learning that it's not the scale that matters.

    The last bit of advice if you want to see a change in the scale is maybe drop the exercise for a week and then weigh again. Maybe your body needs a chance to recover. That has worked for me in the past as well.
  • wilsoje74
    wilsoje74 Posts: 1,720 Member
    I think your exercise burns are a bit high but you aren't eating them anyway. If you truly are logging accurately then you should be losing, so stick with it.
  • segovm
    segovm Posts: 512 Member
    I personally don't believe in eating more to lose weight. There are a lot of bad things that can happen if you don't eat enough, not losing weight is not one of them.

    I know the "starvation mode" idea sounds interesting but we both know it's silly to imagine that you will not lose weight because you are eating too little. Flip it around and try to say with a straight face that you would tell a skinny kid to eat less to pack on the pounds...

    I eat between 1700-1900 calories most days and ride my bike for exercise a few hours a day. My general rule is to eat if I am hungry or low on energy. Most the time if I plan things out well I avoid both of those problems though. If I ate back even a portion of my estimated exercise calories I would be scarfing down an extra 10,000 - 15,000 calories a week.

    Most likely you are just running into problems counting the calories you are eating and maybe not factoring in the fact that all the new exercise is going to cause some water retention as you get used to things. If you are weighing and measuring stuff then just make sure you are doing it right and stick with it. I've had weeks with no scale movement and then drop a few pounds, it's the way the body works.

    Good luck!
  • ElisetheQ
    ElisetheQ Posts: 58 Member
    Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement. I'm not *quite* as upset as I was earlier. :)

    I do realize that it takes time for the body to adjust and process exercise and diet and then lose fat and inches, but golly, it's so hard to get that through my brain!

    It still feels like I should have seen more progress .... But then again ... It's only been a month since I've really upped my exercise.... I'll try to be patient. Sooo...... Hard ......

    The only thing I really don't have is a food scale, but I'm good about breaking things into portions (I.e., if sliced ham is supposed to have 8 2oz servings, then I will bag it into 8 equal separate containers, or count out portions in a bag Of frozen chicken to make sure the ounces should be right per piece). I will get a food scale soon though, just to be sure that my calculations are right.
  • HeidiCooksSupper
    HeidiCooksSupper Posts: 3,831 Member
    The only thing I really don't have is a food scale, but I'm good about breaking things into portions (I.e., if sliced ham is supposed to have 8 2oz servings, then I will bag it into 8 equal separate containers, or count out portions in a bag Of frozen chicken to make sure the ounces should be right per piece). I will get a food scale soon though, just to be sure that my calculations are right.

    Aha! This may very well be the problem. Lots of folks have found that once they got the scale their estimations were WAY off. It may not be the case for you but the $20 investment for a digital food scale at the local discount store is well worth it.
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,372 Member
    What kind of HRM do you have? If it doesn't have a chest strap, it's probably very inaccurate.

    And yes, a food scale would probably help.
  • ElisetheQ
    ElisetheQ Posts: 58 Member
    What kind of HRM do you have? If it doesn't have a chest strap, it's probably very inaccurate.

    And yes, a food scale would probably help.

    It's a Polar FT4, and it does have a chest strap. :)

    I will be getting a food scale, hopefully it will help!
  • caitology
    caitology Posts: 50
    Food scales are magic ;)
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,372 Member
    Yeah I missed that, my bad. It's really odd. Have you seen a doctor? Are you on some meds? If you're actually eating 2000 calories it's probably still way too little, but you should be losing. I mean you'd probably need to eat 4000 calories to maintain with all that exercise, so I highly doubt you're underestimating your food that much.

    My only guess is that your body is shutting off because you're eating way too little. I know that starvation mode is a myth etc, but I've also seen a LOT of people come on MFP and not losing weight because they were eating way too little. Frankly I'm surprised you even have the energy to workout so much.

    So for what it's worth, personally I'd 1) buy a food scale, 2) eat half your exercise calories back... then see from there.
  • sympha01
    sympha01 Posts: 942 Member
    Nope, not starvation mode. Probably a combination of several things.

    1. Heart Rate monitor or not, you're probably overestimating your burn. Sorry.

    2. Looking over your diary, it looks pretty good but I'm guessing based on the portions you enter that you're not weighing your food. Some things on there that are TOTALLY worth weighing: fresh fruit, peanut butter, meat, rice. For the fruit and veg, it looks like you're using the USDA entries (good job! keep doing that!) but in case you haven't noticed, the USDA entries for fruit and veg do offer an option to choose a weight-based portion size. I find that weighing my fruits, vegetables, raw meat and pasta (and peanut butter!) I'm logging my calories MUCH more accurately than I was by saying "one chicken breast. one apple." etc.

    3. A stall-out in weight -- even lasting a month -- is not unusual after starting a new serious workout regimen. New exercise tends to give you some temporary muscle inflammation (which equals water weight), and if you've been VERY sedentary prior to that it really could take a while for that to settle down. You say that your inches are going down but the weight's not. THAT'S PERFECTLY OKAY. It's great, actually. Give it a couple more weeks and the weight will follow. The fat's coming off, and that's what you really want. The scale will catch up if you maintain your discipline.
  • ElisetheQ
    ElisetheQ Posts: 58 Member
    Nope, not starvation mode. Probably a combination of several things.

    1. Heart Rate monitor or not, you're probably overestimating your burn. Sorry.

    2. Looking over your diary, it looks pretty good but I'm guessing based on the portions you enter that you're not weighing your food. Some things on there that are TOTALLY worth weighing: fresh fruit, peanut butter, meat, rice. For the fruit and veg, it looks like you're using the USDA entries (good job! keep doing that!) but in case you haven't noticed, the USDA entries for fruit and veg do offer an option to choose a weight-based portion size. I find that weighing my fruits, vegetables, raw meat and pasta (and peanut butter!) I'm logging my calories MUCH more accurately than I was by saying "one chicken breast. one apple." etc.

    3. A stall-out in weight -- even lasting a month -- is not unusual after starting a new serious workout regimen. New exercise tends to give you some temporary muscle inflammation (which equals water weight), and if you've been VERY sedentary prior to that it really could take a while for that to settle down. You say that your inches are going down but the weight's not. THAT'S PERFECTLY OKAY. It's great, actually. Give it a couple more weeks and the weight will follow. The fat's coming off, and that's what you really want. The scale will catch up if you maintain your discipline.

    Thanks for the tips! Is there anyway to ensure my HRM's accuracy?

    And I've already ordered a food scale ... So that will be a new experience for the better! :)

    And yes, I was completely sedentary (besides my job) before I started exercising. But to clarify, I'm not losing inches either. Well, baaaaarely. I forgot to measure my hips this morning and found that I've lost half and inch there and around my chest .... But my waist, arms, and thighs are still the same from roughly 4 weeks ago. That's really what's bothering me, more so than the lack of weight loss on the scale. The past 3 weeks I've really increased my weight and strength training (increased ... Lol ... From nothing!) and I thought I'd for sure see a difference in measurements (although I can see and feel the muscle growing and defining in both my arms and legs).
  • myfitnesspale3
    myfitnesspale3 Posts: 276 Member
    Wow, your pic doesn't look like 200+ pounds.

    I have kinda turned into a myopic LCHF person, so when I look at your diary and see the fruit, rice, bread, potatoes - typically 200+g carbs per day, I assume you develop hunger between meals so you eat all those "healthy fruits and whole grains" as snacks.

    It doesn't work. All the carbs count to increase blood sugar and increase insulin which crushes blood sugar and drives hunger later. All carbs increase blood sugar and can increase systemic inflammation. So cutting sugars and carbs may improve your RA.

    Also your diet in the past week tends to be low-fat. You need fat and protein to satisfy appetite and suppress later hunger so you can stop snacking. I'd eat more deli-meats (no sugar cures!) and less protein-shake.

    Drinking lots of water is good too. I never touch the stuff myself.
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,372 Member
    Did you adjust your stats on the HRM properly? I do agree that it seems like a lot of calories burned.

    And it's true that when you start a new exercise regimen, you often don't lose weight the first month. So, there's that.
  • ElisetheQ
    ElisetheQ Posts: 58 Member
    Wow, your pic doesn't look like 200+ pounds.

    I have kinda turned into a myopic LCHF person, so when I look at your diary and see the fruit, rice, bread, potatoes - typically 200+g carbs per day, I assume you develop hunger between meals so you eat all those "healthy fruits and whole grains" as snacks.

    It doesn't work. All the carbs count to increase blood sugar and increase insulin which crushes blood sugar and drives hunger later. All carbs increase blood sugar and can increase systemic inflammation. So cutting sugars and carbs may improve your RA.

    Also your diet in the past week tends to be low-fat. You need fat and protein to satisfy appetite and suppress later hunger so you can stop snacking. I'd eat more deli-meats (no sugar cures!) and less protein-shake.

    Drinking lots of water is good too. I never touch the stuff myself.

    Ha, thanks. I was 2010 in that pic. Fortunately I'm tall and the weight gets distributed pretty evenly. Apparently that also means it takes longer to see differences in inches lost, lol.

    Wow, to be honest I didn't realize I was eating that many carbs. I do eat a lot of fruit (but it's encouraged on Weight Watchers, so that's part of it). I will try your suggestion, I do love me some deli meat!
  • ElisetheQ
    ElisetheQ Posts: 58 Member
    Did you adjust your stats on the HRM properly? I do agree that it seems like a lot of calories burned.

    And it's true that when you start a new exercise regimen, you often don't lose weight the first month. So, there's that.

    Yes, I actually just redid the stats the other day. Does it really seem like a lot? Usually I can burn 500-600 cals an hour in Zumba, spin, or one of the group classes at the gym, so when I'm doing two classes (say, Zumba or Group Active which involves an aerobic step and also dumb bells) I can expect to burn 1100-1200 calories. So, when I do a 3 hour day and I'm doing spin, a group class, then Pilates, it seems to make sense that I could burn in the 1700s range.

    I never considered that it seemed really high .... All at once, yeah, but those workouts kick my butt. :) and considering my weight .... I just figured burning 500-600 cals an hour would be normal (I always push myself as hard as I can).

    Thanks again for your input. I'm rethinking some things. I didn't know that it could take several weeks after starting an intense workout routine to see changes.
  • norcal_yogi
    norcal_yogi Posts: 675 Member
    ....exercise for fitness and cut calories/'diet' for weight loss...
  • sympha01
    sympha01 Posts: 942 Member
    Thanks for the tips! Is there anyway to ensure my HRM's accuracy?

    Weellllll, I don't know. I'm not saying YOUR HRM is inaccurate, I'm saying HRMs, no matter how good, are not necessarily super accurate at estimating calorie burn. To be honest, I don't have an HRM myself for that reason. Bear in mind they don't MEASURE your calorie burn. They make an educated guess about your calorie burn based on your personal body stats you input (esp. your age, weight and gender) plus your measured heart rate. It doesn't seem entirely logical to me that two different exercises necessarily burn the same calories just because your heart rate averaged the same for the same period of time. Or for that matter, that MY calorie burn would be the same as another woman's of the same age and weight if our heart rates averaged the same during exercise. If you have poor VO2 max, exertion will require your heart to beat much faster than if you have excellent VO2 max, but you're still burning calories. Many mid-range and above HRMs allow you to enter a personal VO2 max, but I think unless you're a pretty serious athlete OR you've a medical condition that requires special testing, most people don't use this and the HRMs just guess, or you do some sort of simplified fitness test to help it make another educated guess.

    I dunno. I'm by no means an expert and I'd be open to correction if a doctor or professional researcher in the area of physical fitness had real information for me, but probably not from another fitness enthusiast I met on the internet. :-P

    Heart rate monitors are probably great for targeting a specific exertion level during serious athletic training or assessing progress over time. And if you're a long-time exerciser who's been tracking their own diet and progress for many many months I suspect you'd get a pretty good sense of your personal burn rate from them. The best advice I've ever gotten about assessing your own burn rate is simply to exercise consistently over time, and monitor your progress and work the math backwards from there.

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