The Carbs/Sugar in Fruit
Replies
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Ok, so all joking aside, carbs are not created equal. Generally speaking, you can categorize carbs into two different types: Complex and simple carbohydrates. Complex carbs consist of grains (bread, pasta, rice, etc) and starch-rich vegetables (potatoes). Conversely, simple carbs are typically found in fruits and plain sugar. Then a chemically simple, usually consisting of only one or two molecules (monosaccharides and disaccharaides) and are easy to digest. The big thing about complex carbs is that they are chemically more complex than simple carbohydrates and therefore take longer to disest, however, they also do not raise the blood sugar levels in your blood as rapidly. This is why it is beneficial to "carbo-load" before big events like marathons, sports games - because it allows your body to store energy for longer periods of time. On the flip side, however, if you are eating many complex carbohydrates but are not partaking in high calorie burning exercises, then you can easily see your body turning the excess carbohydrates into stored fat.
Conclusion: If you are going over your carbo limit per day, my advice is to look at the types of carbs you are eating. Simple carbs that come from fruits are perfectly ok to go over on, especially if you are exercising every day because your body will quickly burn the energy from those carbs first. If you are in excess of complex carbs, however, you need to ensure that your exercises are longer or of higher intensity.
Source: I graduated with a bachelors of science in biology and consulted my textbooks to double check information. If you have any questions about diet and exercise, please feel free to PM me. I'm always happy to help and provide some sort of background information as to why things work they way they do with your body.
Source: I
So these complex carbs are broken down into simple carbs for ultimate digestion...got it. And as a result of them taking longer to digest, the blood sugar spike is lower, but the *duration of it is longer*...so the net glycemic load is generally the same. So what is the problem of a higher spike in an otherwise healthy person?
Also, why does it matter the timing of the exercise with the food eaten? If I burn 600 calories in one hour immediately after a meal or burn 600 calories 12 hours later, isn't my net gain/loss identical? In other words, do I care if the body uses immediately available energy or previously stored energy? I don't think I do.
High spikes in blood sugar can lead to type 2 diabetes, heart disease, and obesity; in both healthy and unhealthy individuals. How do you think people develop type 2 diabetes…? It isn't by eating low-glycemic foods.
Blood sugar spikes lead to obesity *even without a calorie surplus*???
How? :huh:
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that obesity (or even just being overweight) and lack of physical activity contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes? I might even go so far as to say these two factors are the leading *causes* of type 2 diabetes. I don't see how blood sugar spikes have any bearing though.0 -
^frustrated when people start talking over my head...:grumble:0
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Ok, so all joking aside, carbs are not created equal. Generally speaking, you can categorize carbs into two different types: Complex and simple carbohydrates. Complex carbs consist of grains (bread, pasta, rice, etc) and starch-rich vegetables (potatoes). Conversely, simple carbs are typically found in fruits and plain sugar. Then a chemically simple, usually consisting of only one or two molecules (monosaccharides and disaccharaides) and are easy to digest. The big thing about complex carbs is that they are chemically more complex than simple carbohydrates and therefore take longer to disest, however, they also do not raise the blood sugar levels in your blood as rapidly. This is why it is beneficial to "carbo-load" before big events like marathons, sports games - because it allows your body to store energy for longer periods of time. On the flip side, however, if you are eating many complex carbohydrates but are not partaking in high calorie burning exercises, then you can easily see your body turning the excess carbohydrates into stored fat.
Conclusion: If you are going over your carbo limit per day, my advice is to look at the types of carbs you are eating. Simple carbs that come from fruits are perfectly ok to go over on, especially if you are exercising every day because your body will quickly burn the energy from those carbs first. If you are in excess of complex carbs, however, you need to ensure that your exercises are longer or of higher intensity.
Source: I graduated with a bachelors of science in biology and consulted my textbooks to double check information. If you have any questions about diet and exercise, please feel free to PM me. I'm always happy to help and provide some sort of background information as to why things work they way they do with your body.
Source: I
So these complex carbs are broken down into simple carbs for ultimate digestion...got it. And as a result of them taking longer to digest, the blood sugar spike is lower, but the *duration of it is longer*...so the net glycemic load is generally the same. So what is the problem of a higher spike in an otherwise healthy person?
Also, why does it matter the timing of the exercise with the food eaten? If I burn 600 calories in one hour immediately after a meal or burn 600 calories 12 hours later, isn't my net gain/loss identical? In other words, do I care if the body uses immediately available energy or previously stored energy? I don't think I do.
High spikes in blood sugar can lead to type 2 diabetes, heart disease, and obesity; in both healthy and unhealthy individuals. How do you think people develop type 2 diabetes…? It isn't by eating low-glycemic foods.
Blood sugar spikes lead to obesity *even without a calorie surplus*???
How? :huh:
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that obesity (or even just being overweight) and lack of physical activity contributes to the development of type 2 diabetes?
^actually disagree there - people with a high protein high fat diet - even with a lack of physical activity are not prone to diabetes statistically.0 -
Tossing out generic ratios on what macronutrients should be set at sounds simple but it doesn't work out as nice. Based on your recommendation 35% of my bulk calories would put my protein intake at 262g which is easily over 120g higher than I ever need to be at.I hate how you guys are throwing around bread and fruit as though they are equivalent - fruit has way more nutrients then bread - your getting vitamins that are of paramount importance. - It is not even remotely comparable to bread.
Forget bread all together - if you MUST eat that crap then have a serving of organic oatmeal.
Veggies, Fruit should be staples in your diet and are just as important as having a good ratio of fat and protein in your diet.
I recommend for cutting:
40-45% - Protein, 30-35% - healthy fat (extra virgin olive oil, almonds, flax seed), 25% Veggie/Fruit
For Comp stage:
40% - P, 30 % - F, 30% Veggie/Fruit
For Bulk stage:
35% - P, 25 - F, 40% Carbs (including oatmeal, whole wheat breads etc.)
A more realistic method would be:
Protein - .6-.87g per lb of bodyweight
Fat - .4-.45g per lb of bodyweight
Carbs - Remaining calories
As far as carbs go there is no reason to dump the bread. It's unnecessary. I'm not going to force myself to eat oats just because.
You are recommending the basic cookie cutter bro diet which many people will find unsustainable.
^I gave different stages there - one can't cut forever. ...I am cutting at the moment so yeah my protein intake is going to be very high - and you can injest 2gr of protein per lean lb of bodyweight no problem - I was told all about a study done on it- from a gr8 source on mfp - throw some BCAA's up in there and your ganna be craazy cut.0 -
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Yes you can consume 2g per lb of bodyweight in protein without negative effects but it's unnecessary. Consumption of 2 vs a more reasonable level is going to serve no added benefit. MPS will occur at the rate it will and more protein is not going to accelerate the process.
Tossing out generic ratios on what macronutrients should be set at sounds simple but it doesn't work out as nice. Based on your recommendation 35% of my bulk calories would put my protein intake at 262g which is easily over 120g higher than I ever need to be at.I hate how you guys are throwing around bread and fruit as though they are equivalent - fruit has way more nutrients then bread - your getting vitamins that are of paramount importance. - It is not even remotely comparable to bread.
Forget bread all together - if you MUST eat that crap then have a serving of organic oatmeal.
Veggies, Fruit should be staples in your diet and are just as important as having a good ratio of fat and protein in your diet.
I recommend for cutting:
40-45% - Protein, 30-35% - healthy fat (extra virgin olive oil, almonds, flax seed), 25% Veggie/Fruit
For Comp stage:
40% - P, 30 % - F, 30% Veggie/Fruit
For Bulk stage:
35% - P, 25 - F, 40% Carbs (including oatmeal, whole wheat breads etc.)
A more realistic method would be:
Protein - .6-.87g per lb of bodyweight
Fat - .4-.45g per lb of bodyweight
Carbs - Remaining calories
As far as carbs go there is no reason to dump the bread. It's unnecessary. I'm not going to force myself to eat oats just because.
You are recommending the basic cookie cutter bro diet which many people will find unsustainable.
^I gave different stages there - one can't cut forever. ...I am cutting at the moment so yeah my protein intake is going to be very high - and you can injest 2gr of protein per lean lb of bodyweight no problem - I was told all about a study done on it- from a gr8 source on mfp - throw some BCAA's up in there and your ganna be craazy cut.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
As an example if I took in 2g per lb of bodyweight in protein that's 300g of protein equaling 1200 calories, leaving me 700 calories left for fat and carbs which is barely enough to cover my daily fat intake alone. So while 2g may not have a negative impact of health it will have an indirect negative effect due to not being able to hit the proper caloric intake and target the necessary macronutrients and micronutrients.
BCAA supplements also are not necessary. We get the necessary amino acids from our dietary intake and more so in someone keeping protein higher than needed.
I haven't been cutting forever. The example of 262g of protein was based on a bulk for me on 3000.
If we look at a cut, 40% of my 1900 that's 760 calories or 190g of protein. Still higher than needed.
^
I'm going to be PM'ing you later because I checked out your source and it's solid - I'd like you to elaborate more about what I should do personally for my goals If I could later. - don't want to derail this thread.
appreciate the time in your response.
...you just have me a little worried about the use of the word "necessary" and I want to make sure I'm not doing anything unhealthy in my diet.0 -
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Ok, so all joking aside, carbs are not created equal. Generally speaking, you can categorize carbs into two different types: Complex and simple carbohydrates. Complex carbs consist of grains (bread, pasta, rice, etc) and starch-rich vegetables (potatoes). Conversely, simple carbs are typically found in fruits and plain sugar. Then a chemically simple, usually consisting of only one or two molecules (monosaccharides and disaccharaides) and are easy to digest. The big thing about complex carbs is that they are chemically more complex than simple carbohydrates and therefore take longer to disest, however, they also do not raise the blood sugar levels in your blood as rapidly. This is why it is beneficial to "carbo-load" before big events like marathons, sports games - because it allows your body to store energy for longer periods of time. On the flip side, however, if you are eating many complex carbohydrates but are not partaking in high calorie burning exercises, then you can easily see your body turning the excess carbohydrates into stored fat.
Conclusion: If you are going over your carbo limit per day, my advice is to look at the types of carbs you are eating. Simple carbs that come from fruits are perfectly ok to go over on, especially if you are exercising every day because your body will quickly burn the energy from those carbs first. If you are in excess of complex carbs, however, you need to ensure that your exercises are longer or of higher intensity.
Source: I graduated with a bachelors of science in biology and consulted my textbooks to double check information. If you have any questions about diet and exercise, please feel free to PM me. I'm always happy to help and provide some sort of background information as to why things work they way they do with your body.
Source: I
Thank you so much! Super helpful.0 -
I completely disagree that the source of carbs only matters if you're unhealthy.http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
Take Home Messages
- For your body composition, it doesn’t matter if a carb is classified as simple or complex or if it has a high or low glycemic or insulin load or index. Only the total amount of carbs in your diet matters and this only matters because carbs contain calories.
-For your health, the source of carbs is only relevant if you’re unhealthy. If you’re already healthy, it generally doesn’t matter.
I guess if your only goal is "being shredded" and your only metric is "body composition"....0 -
You can disagree all you want. I have a huge extended family of people who eat processed carbs everyday and live extremely long lives without any medical issues or being overweight. They all follow the standard Italian-American diet:pasta, bread, processed meats and cheeses, wine. So, my metric is a long enjoyable life without arbitrary restrictions.
I completely disagree that the source of carbs only matters if you're unhealthy.http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
Take Home Messages
- For your body composition, it doesn’t matter if a carb is classified as simple or complex or if it has a high or low glycemic or insulin load or index. Only the total amount of carbs in your diet matters and this only matters because carbs contain calories.
-For your health, the source of carbs is only relevant if you’re unhealthy. If you’re already healthy, it generally doesn’t matter.
I guess if your only goal is "being shredded" and your only metric is "body composition"....0 -
they also don't eat lots of nutritious foods? wow. umm. ok.
You can disagree all you want. I have a huge extended family of people who eat processed carbs everyday and live extremely long lives without any medical issues or being overweight. They all follow the standard Italian-American diet:pasta, bread, processed meats and cheeses, wine. So, my metric is a long enjoyable life without arbitrary restrictions.
I completely disagree that the source of carbs only matters if you're unhealthy.http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
Take Home Messages
- For your body composition, it doesn’t matter if a carb is classified as simple or complex or if it has a high or low glycemic or insulin load or index. Only the total amount of carbs in your diet matters and this only matters because carbs contain calories.
-For your health, the source of carbs is only relevant if you’re unhealthy. If you’re already healthy, it generally doesn’t matter.
I guess if your only goal is "being shredded" and your only metric is "body composition"....0 -
Welcome and you CAN find success with the health you want to create!0
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Golly sakes this is kind of a tough crowd LOL! (runs and hides)0
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Add on: I am 5'4 and 165 pounds, I'm looking to lose about 30 pounds. I usually end up in the 200s for carbs, I work out 3-4 times a week about 90 minutes and I eat between 1000-1300 calories a day
I grabbed this from the first page and didn't go through the whole thread, but, at 200g of carbs and a total of 1,000 calories on some days you are consuming 80% carbs. Does this sound balanced to you?0 -
Ok, so all joking aside, carbs are not created equal. Generally speaking, you can categorize carbs into two different types: Complex and simple carbohydrates. Complex carbs consist of grains (bread, pasta, rice, etc) and starch-rich vegetables (potatoes). Conversely, simple carbs are typically found in fruits and plain sugar. Then a chemically simple, usually consisting of only one or two molecules (monosaccharides and disaccharaides) and are easy to digest. The big thing about complex carbs is that they are chemically more complex than simple carbohydrates and therefore take longer to disest, however, they also do not raise the blood sugar levels in your blood as rapidly. This is why it is beneficial to "carbo-load" before big events like marathons, sports games - because it allows your body to store energy for longer periods of time. On the flip side, however, if you are eating many complex carbohydrates but are not partaking in high calorie burning exercises, then you can easily see your body turning the excess carbohydrates into stored fat.
Conclusion: If you are going over your carbo limit per day, my advice is to look at the types of carbs you are eating. Simple carbs that come from fruits are perfectly ok to go over on, especially if you are exercising every day because your body will quickly burn the energy from those carbs first. If you are in excess of complex carbs, however, you need to ensure that your exercises are longer or of higher intensity.
Source: I graduated with a bachelors of science in biology and consulted my textbooks to double check information. If you have any questions about diet and exercise, please feel free to PM me. I'm always happy to help and provide some sort of background information as to why things work they way they do with your body.
Source: I
Thank you so much! Super helpful.
No it's not. It's garbage. Calorie surplus is what makes fat. Otherwise, hook me up for science because most of my carbs are ice cream, bagels, and pasta. I dont do intense cardio. I've done nothing but lose fat. Balance your macros for health. Get more protein, fiber, and fats in your diet but don't worry about carbs. They will not end you. Unless you obsess. That's exactly why so many fail. They think "I can't have this or I can't have that." Sure you can. Fit those into a healthy, balanced diet. Enjoy your foods and enjoy life. Don't make this misery. Also, look at the other plethora of info in this thread and not cherry pick0 -
I hate how you guys are throwing around bread and fruit as though they are equivalent - fruit has way more nutrients then bread - your getting vitamins that are of paramount importance. - It is not even remotely comparable to bread.
Forget bread all together - if you MUST eat that crap then have a serving of organic oatmeal.
Veggies, Fruit should be staples in your diet and are just as important as having a good ratio of fat and protein in your diet.
I recommend for cutting:
40-45% - Protein, 30-35% - healthy fat (extra virgin olive oil, almonds, flax seed), 25% Veggie/Fruit
For Comp stage:
40% - P, 30 % - F, 30% Veggie/Fruit
For Bulk stage:
35% - P, 25 - F, 40% Carbs (including oatmeal, whole wheat breads etc.)
There is nothing wrong with bread in a cut, bulk or maintenance stage.
Personally, when i cut out foods just because, i find that I binge more because I crave that kind of food. You can easily fit bread in your diet and still hit macro and micronutrient goals.
Also in terms of your %, there is no ideal percentage as you calculate those numbers off of caloric intake and lean body mass. I could easily bulk or cut off of with my current macro's at 40/30/30. How is that possible? Because my protein is a bit high.. it's about 1g per lb of weight instead of lean body mass. I just like protein based foods though.
edit: i see this was already addressed, :laugh:0 -
Unless you find that by eating certain fruits you find yourself hungry and craving more food sooner, thus making it harder to stay at a deficit.you should do some research to figure out which fruits are higher carb vs. lower carb... I try to avoid things like pineapple, bananas, oranges, apples (4 of my favorite fruits) and go for strawberries or other berries that are low carb/sugar because of my insulin resistance.
A medical condition is really the only reason to avoid carbs or minimize carbs. If the OP doesn't have it, there is no reason to avoid high carb fruits.
Fair point, if we want to make this discussion about satiety. The same would go for a lot of foods.
But from a weight loss perspective, it really doesn't matter outside of water retention from the additional glycogen stores from a carb heavy diet.
I don't understand this perspective at all. How can satiety not matter for weight loss? Water weight aside, satiety is a very big factor in fat loss.
Here is what I mean, when you talk pure weight loss, it's calories in vs out, with the exception of medical conditions. When you talk sustaining a good healthy plan, then macros are important. For me, I am just as hungry after fruit or veggies as I am with breads. The difference, bread is more calorie dense. With that said, if you struggle with satiety, then upping proteins and fats is the way to go.0 -
Holy crap man, 60% of the statements in here are bull**** from both sides. I really feel bad for the people really wanting some facts on what is healthy for them & what is not.0
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You can disagree all you want. I have a huge extended family of people who eat processed carbs everyday and live extremely long lives without any medical issues or being overweight. They all follow the standard Italian-American diet:pasta, bread, processed meats and cheeses, wine. So, my metric is a long enjoyable life without arbitrary restrictions.
I completely disagree that the source of carbs only matters if you're unhealthy.http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
Take Home Messages
- For your body composition, it doesn’t matter if a carb is classified as simple or complex or if it has a high or low glycemic or insulin load or index. Only the total amount of carbs in your diet matters and this only matters because carbs contain calories.
-For your health, the source of carbs is only relevant if you’re unhealthy. If you’re already healthy, it generally doesn’t matter.
I guess if your only goal is "being shredded" and your only metric is "body composition"....
I hate to burst your bubble but your "huge extended family" makes up a VERY minute amount of the world population.0 -
Holy crap man, 60% of the statements in here are bull**** from both sides. I really feel bad for the people really wanting some facts on what is healthy for them & what is not.
Oh please enlighten us.
(These are my favorite kinds of posts in discussions like these. It seems like 98.44% of the time, the "facts" they provide are far from. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a mercola/livestrong/obscure blog post reference.)0 -
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I was flirting with the cutie lifeguard at the pool I go to yesterday - she is a college student studying to be a nutrition expert. Soooo I mentioned this thread and asked her what the truth is.
When it comes down to it - the most healthy diets are of course simply balanced diets - your macro's don't need to be nailed down totally solid it is all about being active and eating balanced.
One point she did make that is totally brand new and perhaps a gem or perhaps dumb - is that guys should not consume 50+grams of protein within an hour. ---idk if that is accurate..
Source of carbs - she said that it does matter - but only to a point - calorie intake being at a deficit is all it takes to loose weight - but she said for a healthy balanced lifestyle one shouldn't always be eating at a deficit obviously - if one is healthy they would be consuming calories at maintenance. And when consuming at maintenance, it doesn't matter if it is a bread or broccoli it only matters that your intake is balanced. Cutting fruit totally out of your diet because you want your sugars down and want a high percentage of protein in your diet is not healthy - there are vitamins and fiber that aid in digestion and a host of other areas.
As for my point earlier when Mr.M27 and I started to go at it, till he provided a link forcing me to concede that point - he is right - and I still may go to you :tips hat to the fellow gentleman: - but at this moment time I think I'm ganna be asking for advice from the hardbody college chick
She did say tho - if you are prone to diabetes - which in my family (heavily Irish background) we are, then having moderate carbs is important - but once again its all about balance, a piece of bread, or munching on some ice cream in moderation will not only not hurt you - it's not ganna do much of anything at all bad for you - in moderation - while being fit aka ACTIVE. - the problem she said and why this isn't the obvious takeaway is because people are generally not walking around with six packs or spending two+ hours a day in a gym like many of us - the coach surfers munching on potato chips, beer, and their only diet is their diet coke, are NOT being healthy eating the breads, or the ice cream because - their intake is not in moderation, and they are also not active. - she said one of the biggest of all problems no one talks about is simply the malnutrition from not having a proper intake of water as well. She thinks American's eat when they are actually just thirsty - we should be having 7-15 cups of water daily, and most people are lucky to put down 5, and that's including the water in their three morning coffee's ;b
I didn't bring up my constipation problems when eating bread to her tho0 -
Holy crap man, 60% of the statements in here are bull**** from both sides. I really feel bad for the people really wanting some facts on what is healthy for them & what is not.
Well enlighten us then? If you feel so bad then tell the people like me who really do want facts 'wuts up!'
edit: "One point she did make that is totally brand new and perhaps a gem or perhaps dumb - is that guys should not consume 50+grams of protein within an hour. ---idk if that is accurate.. "
-I mention this because it is the third time I have heard it over the past month, and I do eat in excess to 50 grams in a sitting occasionally - which is not only expensive - she and a body builder I met both advised it just results in an expensive stinker.0 -
Ahh I didn't mean to start a huge argument!!
Thanks to all for your insight. I may be even more confused now. I love fruit and I'm going to eat them in moderation and just try to up my protein intake a bit!0 -
Pretty much every thread turns into a huge argument.:happy:
Lol, I didn't mean to start a huge argument!!Holy crap man, 60% of the statements in here are bull**** from both sides. I really feel bad for the people really wanting some facts on what is healthy for them & what is not.0 -
Pretty much every thread turns into a huge argument.:happy:
Lol, I didn't mean to start a huge argument!!Holy crap man, 60% of the statements in here are bull**** from both sides. I really feel bad for the people really wanting some facts on what is healthy for them & what is not.
I guess it just goes to show that there is still so much confusion out there! I hope one day it becomes clearer, but I am losing a little weight and I feel good so everything in moderation i guess0 -
Calories in vs. calories out ..............0
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