Cutting after bulking?

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  • BombshellPhoenix
    BombshellPhoenix Posts: 1,693 Member
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    In for slow and steady bulking.
  • cliffshaw
    cliffshaw Posts: 14
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    [/quote]

    First, you have a tainted view of body fat percentage on a woman. Secondly, the rate of gain isn't dictated by the type of food you are eating. It is dependent upon the amount of the caloric surplus.

    Sara's advice is spot on. It is much more difficult for women to add lean mass, hence it wouldn't make sense to recommend a rapid gain approach as most of it will be fat gain.

    *Edited because I'm a nitwit and can't quote correctly.
    [/quote]

    "Tainted View" - That's unfounded and untrue. 10-11% body fat is totally in the normal range for Athletic women. The woman I used as an example (my wife) is exactly that: Athletic. To say that is unhealthy is also incorrect, given that she an Athletic novice bodybuilder.
    Although I stated 25% was high, it is indeed considered normal or acceptable for females. http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/normal-ranges-of-body-weight-and-body-fat

    Provided these posts continue to have value and offer the free exchange of information and opinions I'd be more than happy to keep discussing this. However, if you feel the need to condemn my views or opinions with your own unsubstantiated opinions I'll simply move along.

    Yeah - I know I can't quote correctly as well.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
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    You're just wrong, cliffshaw - don't take it so bad.

    25% is perfectly normal and healthy for a woman. 11%'is not.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    First, you have a tainted view of body fat percentage on a woman. Secondly, the rate of gain isn't dictated by the type of food you are eating. It is dependent upon the amount of the caloric surplus.

    Sara's advice is spot on. It is much more difficult for women to add lean mass, hence it wouldn't make sense to recommend a rapid gain approach as most of it will be fat gain.

    *Edited because I'm a nitwit and can't quote correctly.

    "Tainted View" - That's unfounded and untrue. 10-11% body fat is totally in the normal range for Athletic women. The woman I used as an example (my wife) is exactly that: Athletic. To say that is unhealthy is also incorrect, given that she an Athletic novice bodybuilder.
    Although I stated 25% was high, it is indeed considered normal or acceptable for females. http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/normal-ranges-of-body-weight-and-body-fat

    Provided these posts continue to have value and offer the free exchange of information and opinions I'd be more than happy to keep discussing this. However, if you feel the need to condemn my views or opinions with your own unsubstantiated opinions I'll simply move along.

    Yeah - I know I can't quote correctly as well.

    2u6zo8p.jpg

    30wuo49.jpg


    Also, look at the link you provided - 10% is at the very bottom of the range in table 13.2B - and only for a few sports. This therefore is not the 'normal' range - it is at the extreme end of the range.

    Adding to be clearer - 10 - 11% may be ok for some women at the end of their prep when they are ready to go on stage - it is not healthy for the vast majority of the population and it is not healthy to sustain for any length of time. It is definitely not something that should be expounded as healthy for people making or reading posts here.

    Edited to fix quotes
  • MonsterToBe
    MonsterToBe Posts: 244 Member
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    First, you have a tainted view of body fat percentage on a woman. Secondly, the rate of gain isn't dictated by the type of food you are eating. It is dependent upon the amount of the caloric surplus.

    Sara's advice is spot on. It is much more difficult for women to add lean mass, hence it wouldn't make sense to recommend a rapid gain approach as most of it will be fat gain.

    *Edited because I'm a nitwit and can't quote correctly.

    "Tainted View" - That's unfounded and untrue. 10-11% body fat is totally in the normal range for Athletic women. The woman I used as an example (my wife) is exactly that: Athletic. To say that is unhealthy is also incorrect, given that she an Athletic novice bodybuilder.
    Although I stated 25% was high, it is indeed considered normal or acceptable for females. http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/normal-ranges-of-body-weight-and-body-fat

    Provided these posts continue to have value and offer the free exchange of information and opinions I'd be more than happy to keep discussing this. However, if you feel the need to condemn my views or opinions with your own unsubstantiated opinions I'll simply move along.

    Yeah - I know I can't quote correctly as well.

    2u6zo8p.jpg

    30wuo49.jpg


    Also, look at the link you provided - 10% is at the very bottom of the range in table 13.2B - and only for a few sports. This therefore is not the 'normal' range - it is at the extreme end of the range.

    Adding to be clearer - 10 - 11% may be ok for some women at the end of their prep when they are ready to go on stage - it is not healthy for the vast majority of the population and it is not healthy to sustain for any length of time. It is definitely not something that should be expounded as healthy for people making or reading posts here.

    Edited to fix quotes

    In addition, female athletes that sustain bodyfat percentages lower than 16% for any length of time need to be aware of the associated risks. Amenorrhea is one of them, as reaching such low bf % can potentially involve incurring such extreme energy deficits that normal reproductive function cannot be sustained. And if the reduced intake drops calcium intake too low, the body will leach calcium from the bones to supply the muscles with the calcium needed for movement, which can cause early onset osteoporosis or osteopoenia.

    Many athletes educate themselves on these and related issues and intelligently manage the amount of time they spend at low bf levels, but many others don't and the consequences can be severely impairing, especially in later life. Who wants to be an old woman who has to worry about breaking a bone just by bumping into a table?

    Personally, I'll stick with my favorite strength sport, and I'm aiming for about 20-22% -- at which point I'll be one smokin' hot grandma!!!
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    Yep, that 10% range is some stage ready stuff. You're not walking around at that all day every day.

    As a male, sure.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
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    female-8-9-percent-body-fat.jpg
  • monikker
    monikker Posts: 322 Member
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    So, if my goal is to be a competitive athlete then I assume I want to be in the 14-20% range. I have no idea what my body fat % is right now. But let's say it's over 20%, then I still want to bulk because I'm so puny muscle-wise ... and then, will want to cut or go back to a maintenance calorie level later? I assume that will lower my BF% if it is too high.
  • monikker
    monikker Posts: 322 Member
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    Also, if I'm actually in the 14-20% range right now as I am, I still want to bulk to gain muscle...so some fat will come with that and bump up my BF%...so I may want to cut later anyway to bring it down. Kinda confusing, is hitting a target BF% really this important for tracking my weight and muscle gains? I guess it helps me know how much muscle I've gained. I dunno.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
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    The bodyfat thing (being sub 24 before bulking) means you'll get optimal muscle gain, muscle/fat ratio. I thought it was rubbish but proved myself wrong :/
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    There is no "right body fat" percentage to bulk at- it's wildly goal dependent and what you are willing to sacrifice.

    I know I bulked on the meaty end- I think I was still in the 20's- low 20's but twenty's none the less. I am having a harder time shaking weight off now- but it's also a completely very very low priority for me (training for a powerlifting meet and cutting at the same time is just unwise)

    It really depends on how much you are willing to work- and give up and what your goal is. If you're goal is to get stronger- than go ahead- bulk on the high end- it's not a priority to stay uber lean at any one point.

    It is much easier at a lower % to manipulate what you have going on and get back down to it. At the top of my bulk I was 180 pounds. Wanting to get to a stage ready place would require me dropping 35 pounds.

    Not a priority. Didn't/don't care. But that doesn't mean it's not difficult- and it's not daunting- that's a lot of weight.

    So a lot of it boils down to how much work you want to do on which end of the cycle and WHY you are bulking the first place.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    So, if my goal is to be a competitive athlete then I assume I want to be in the 14-20% range. I have no idea what my body fat % is right now. But let's say it's over 20%, then I still want to bulk because I'm so puny muscle-wise ... and then, will want to cut or go back to a maintenance calorie level later? I assume that will lower my BF% if it is too high.

    What are you goals?

    If someone has a lower than average muscle mass, then often it makes sense to bulk at the higher BF% range (again, individual factors apply).

    However, you may just want to focus on recomping (eat at maintenance) - especially if you are new to lifting.

    Do you lift? How long have you been lifting for if you do, and what is you routine like?
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
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    So, if my goal is to be a competitive athlete then I assume I want to be in the 14-20% range. I have no idea what my body fat % is right now. But let's say it's over 20%, then I still want to bulk because I'm so puny muscle-wise ... and then, will want to cut or go back to a maintenance calorie level later? I assume that will lower my BF% if it is too high.

    Hi

    Did you mention what kind of competitive athlete you want to be? The optimum body compositions vary wildly.

    Also you need to bulk and cut in your off season if you have one. Lots of variables.
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
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    So, if my goal is to be a competitive athlete then I assume I want to be in the 14-20% range. I have no idea what my body fat % is right now. But let's say it's over 20%, then I still want to bulk because I'm so puny muscle-wise ... and then, will want to cut or go back to a maintenance calorie level later? I assume that will lower my BF% if it is too high.
    Not everyone cuts after bulking -- you may be happy with where you are and just decide to switch to maintenance. Bulking can change your perspective on a lot of things, including your goals for your body shape and how you think about food. It's okay to wait and see how you feel after you're done bulking.
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
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    So, if my goal is to be a competitive athlete then I assume I want to be in the 14-20% range. I have no idea what my body fat % is right now. But let's say it's over 20%, then I still want to bulk because I'm so puny muscle-wise ... and then, will want to cut or go back to a maintenance calorie level later? I assume that will lower my BF% if it is too high.
    Not everyone cuts after bulking -- you may be happy with where you are and just decide to switch to maintenance. Bulking can change your perspective on a lot of things, including your goals for your body shape and how you think about food. It's okay to wait and see how you feel after you're done bulking.

    True words!

    I loved my body in February after my bulk when I put on 8lbs. I was in my bikini and my measurements were great. I couldn't believe it really. I only cut because the extra fat made me slower at running, I've now cut about 4lb fat off since and I got measured at 15.6% body fat today in a bodpod. I'm probably more like 18% but it will be easier on my heart to get that 21min 5k back.

    I cut for the speed as I have a crazy triathlon goal to do in the next couple of years.

    I have to add that I've been at these weights in my previous life, and I was much higher fat and didn't look in good shape at all. I looked like someone's Mum. Now I look like someone's sister lol!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    So, if my goal is to be a competitive athlete then I assume I want to be in the 14-20% range. I have no idea what my body fat % is right now. But let's say it's over 20%, then I still want to bulk because I'm so puny muscle-wise ... and then, will want to cut or go back to a maintenance calorie level later? I assume that will lower my BF% if it is too high.
    Not everyone cuts after bulking -- you may be happy with where you are and just decide to switch to maintenance. Bulking can change your perspective on a lot of things, including your goals for your body shape and how you think about food. It's okay to wait and see how you feel after you're done bulking.

    True words!

    I have to add that I've been at these weights in my previous life, and I was much higher fat and didn't look in good shape at all. I looked like someone's Mum. Now I look just look hawt lol!

    fixed that for you ;)
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
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    So, if my goal is to be a competitive athlete then I assume I want to be in the 14-20% range. I have no idea what my body fat % is right now. But let's say it's over 20%, then I still want to bulk because I'm so puny muscle-wise ... and then, will want to cut or go back to a maintenance calorie level later? I assume that will lower my BF% if it is too high.
    Not everyone cuts after bulking -- you may be happy with where you are and just decide to switch to maintenance. Bulking can change your perspective on a lot of things, including your goals for your body shape and how you think about food. It's okay to wait and see how you feel after you're done bulking.

    True words!

    I have to add that I've been at these weights in my previous life, and I was much higher fat and didn't look in good shape at all. I looked like someone's Mum. Now I look just look hawt lol!

    fixed that for you ;)

    Lol! Lifting makes us all hawt! Thank you JoRocka you star!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    yes- yes we are. ;)
  • alereck
    alereck Posts: 343 Member
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    [/quote]
    Are your lifts increasing?

    The first place you will gain fat for most women is butt/thighs and for men is the stomach. Just like this is the last place you typically lose it from.

    As long as your surplus isn't too large (and IMO it shouldn't ever be for a female as the muscle building process is so slow) then I wouldn't worry about it.

    It's like guys worrying about having visible abs year round. It's a sure fire way to stay at the same strength/LBM level basically.
    [/quote]

    I do progressively increase weight when lifting. Some exercises I’ve been able to add more than others but once I can reach 3 x 12 I increase the weight.

    I’ve been reading more and more about bulking and I guess I have to let go. I read that I will add some fat while trying to gain muscle but it’s so hard to let that happen after finally getting to an idea weight.

    I’ve been told over and over again to weight and take pictures of myself weekly but I’m seriously considering looking away for the next 4 weeks and see how it goes. I find myself cutting back in calories every time I see my stomach sticking out, lol.

    Thanks for commenting.