HIGH fat, HIGH protein, VERY low carb diet.
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reeyonce
Posts: 43 Member
Hi...just wanted to get some advice on my diet. My initial 28 lbs weight loss came from cutting out simple carbs & sugar and focusing mainly on protein, leafy greens (spinach, water cress, lettuce, rocket, & kale) veg (broccoli, green beans & cabbage) & healthy fats. This diet has work best for me as I do suffer with food intolerances, plus I get TERRIBLE sugar rush so generally I feel much better.
I have 28 lbs more to lose and even though I want to continue this sort of diet, I'm worried my fat intake is now getting TOO high. I eat LOTS of salmon & mackerel, and I LOVE milk! I've recently switched back to full fat milk. I only eat skinless chicken & turkey breasts - no other meat. I do tae bo daily or sometimes if I'm feeling 'lazy' I'll do a HIIT routine. My calorie intake is pretty low it's very hard for me to make up a decent number of calories because what I eat is typically low in calories, however my fat intake is getting pretty high (mainly from milk & fish). Now I don't mean dangerously high, I just mean high in a weight loss/diet kind of sense. Is this a HUGE problem?
Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!
I have 28 lbs more to lose and even though I want to continue this sort of diet, I'm worried my fat intake is now getting TOO high. I eat LOTS of salmon & mackerel, and I LOVE milk! I've recently switched back to full fat milk. I only eat skinless chicken & turkey breasts - no other meat. I do tae bo daily or sometimes if I'm feeling 'lazy' I'll do a HIIT routine. My calorie intake is pretty low it's very hard for me to make up a decent number of calories because what I eat is typically low in calories, however my fat intake is getting pretty high (mainly from milk & fish). Now I don't mean dangerously high, I just mean high in a weight loss/diet kind of sense. Is this a HUGE problem?
Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!
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Replies
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You may want to open your diary to get more specific advice.
I think you have the problem backwards. You should be more worried about too much protein. Very Low Carb diets work best when you are eating High fat, Moderate protein, and Low carbohydrates. The reason for this has to do with the general strategy of low carb diets: keep your blood sugar low, keep your insulin response down, and your body will be more willing to burn body fat for energy sources. The problem with eating too much protein (and the exact amount is different for everyone based on their level of activity) is that your body can turn protein into glucose (gluconeogenesis). This causes an insulin response, which combats the basic strategy. Gluconeogenesis also occurs to fat (and it definitely occurs to carbs), but it doesn't create as much of an insulin response. The reason protein isn't also low in proportion is because your body requires protein to function and perform activities (if you don't get enough protein, you will lose muscle mass. This is why some people refer to the amount of protein as ENOUGH instead of simply MODERATE). The more active you are, the more protein you need per lean body mass.
Now this isn't to say that you won't achieve weight loss eating high amounts of protein, but there are certain advantages to optimizing your ratios. If you keep your blood sugar and insulin response down long enough, your body will adapt (to a more appropriate and natural diet your body was built for) and go into a state called ketosis. It's possible you are in it right now, but high protein can take you out of it. Ketosis is a state of rapid fat burning and it is linked to several health benefits including (but certainly not limited to) the cure for epilepsy, reduced cancer risk, certain better cholesterol/triglyceride indicators, and more energy. Also, it is a very satisfactory diet even on a calorie deficit.
Here is a calculator to help you figure out better ratios:
keto-calculator.ankerl.com
You said something about healthy fats, but I want to make sure you know what fats are actually healthy to eat: animal fats (meat and dairy), avocados, coconut oil, olive oil, nuts, and fish. Processed vegetable oils are unhealthy. Saturated fats are good. Make sure you get up your ratio of Omega-3s to 6s. Trans fats are bad when you get too many. They occur in trace amounts in nature, which is fine, but stay away when there is an abnormal amount in artificially produced foods.
Also, complex carbs are not necessarily an important part of a diet. First, let's clarify something. Complex carbohydrates is actually a vague term and not quite helpful, especially when discussing (very) low carb diets. I'm going to introduce you to another term that every low-carber needs to know: net carbs. Net carbs (usually counted in grams) are total carbohydrates - dietary fiber. The average person stays in ketosis (assuming you aren't getting too much protein) when you eat under 50 net carbs. Initial ketoers should probably only be getting 20-25 net carbs. Your intake of carbs should mostly be from vegetables (not fruit) and nuts.
So eat the skin on the poultry. Eat your steaks and bacon. Put cream, cheese, sour cream, and real butter on everything. Always choose full fat options over non-fat. And eat veggies.0 -
Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!
My daily goals are set for 70% Fat, 25% Protein and 5% carbs.
I eat about 2lbs/ a kg of bacon, cheese and pork crackling a week - they are delicious dipped in full fat aioli!
I have coconut cream, full fat cream, plenty of chicken and eggs too. Also about 3-4 litres of water a day.
I feel pretty awesome eating this way - my skin is clearer (used to break out a lot), I sleep and exercise better and think clearer and have loads of energy.
When I do eat carby things (sweets/bread/baking/chocolate/potatoes/pasta/rice/icecream etc) I get quite gassy, sleepy and feel bloated, I also tend to breakout with pimples within 24-48 hours.
It doesn't work for everyone, but this way of eating certainly feels good to me.0 -
As another poster said, you want high fat, moderate protein, low carb, not high protein. Too much protein can be turned into glucose the same way as carbs. Like Ronnie my macros are set to 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs and this has really worked for me.
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq0 -
Hi...just wanted to get some advice on my diet. My initial 28 lbs weight loss came from cutting out simple carbs & sugar and focusing mainly on protein, leafy greens (spinach, water cress, lettuce, rocket, & kale) veg (broccoli, green beans & cabbage) & healthy fats. This diet has work best for me as I do suffer with food intolerances, plus I get TERRIBLE sugar rush so generally I feel much better.
I have 28 lbs more to lose and even though I want to continue this sort of diet, I'm worried my fat intake is now getting TOO high. I eat LOTS of salmon & mackerel, and I LOVE milk! I've recently switched back to full fat milk. I only eat skinless chicken & turkey breasts - no other meat. I do tae bo daily or sometimes if I'm feeling 'lazy' I'll do a HIIT routine. My calorie intake is pretty low it's very hard for me to make up a decent number of calories because what I eat is typically low in calories, however my fat intake is getting pretty high (mainly from milk & fish). Now I don't mean dangerously high, I just mean high in a weight loss/diet kind of sense. Is this a HUGE problem?
Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!
Well, fat HAS calories :laugh: and the backbone of this type of diet IS getting most of your calories from fat, some from protein & the smallest amount from complex carbs (veggies). You can use a keto calculator to re-calculate your macros if you'd like to change them around some. Keep to a caloric deficit & you will lose weight, regardless of whether your calories come from fat or protein.0 -
As another poster said, you want high fat, moderate protein, low carb, not high protein. Too much protein can be turned into glucose the same way as carbs. Like Ronnie my macros are set to 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs and this has really worked for me.
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq
The process of converting amino acids to glucose is called gluconeogenesis. While this does create glucose which staves off ketosis this can be a good thing. It's not "too much" protein that does this it's really any protein because the body needs glucose although while in ketosis it's significantly reduced. The body won't create enough glucose from this process to spike the blood sugar. There's no studies that shows significant differences between a high fat, high protein diet and a high fat, moderate protein diet. The big benefit of having high protein too is that body can maintain and even still build muscle. Ketogenic diets will create lean mass losses as displayed by many studies.
The body does not use glucose in ketosis; it burns fat and naturally creates ketones for energy after depleting glycogen stores.
See #2: http://authoritynutrition.com/5-most-common-low-carb-mistakes/
http://josepharcita.blogspot.com/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html#33AA0 -
As another poster said, you want high fat, moderate protein, low carb, not high protein. Too much protein can be turned into glucose the same way as carbs. Like Ronnie my macros are set to 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs and this has really worked for me.
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq
The process of converting amino acids to glucose is called gluconeogenesis. While this does create glucose which staves off ketosis this can be a good thing. It's not "too much" protein that does this it's really any protein because the body needs glucose although while in ketosis it's significantly reduced. The body won't create enough glucose from this process to spike the blood sugar. There's no studies that shows significant differences between a high fat, high protein diet and a high fat, moderate protein diet. The big benefit of having high protein too is that body can maintain and even still build muscle. Ketogenic diets will create lean mass losses as displayed by many studies.
One question I would have to ask is whether (too much) protein can kick you out of ketosis (or into mild stages of it). Also, I think you should clarify your any protein (rather than too much protein) part. I understand that different amino acids are treated differently. Also, if your body is going to utilize the protein for muscles, etc. it won't be turning it into glucose. So why wouldn't too much protein (more than your body needs/uses at your level of activity) be anti ketogenic if your body will (?) utilize gluconeogenesis with the remaining protein.
I am honestly curious and want to learn.
Also, I don't think there is much of a point to make about the lack of studies. First, there are very few long-term, low-carb studies at all because of the lack of funding. Second, I don't know if we should only be focusing on one factor like weight loss (although I'm not sure what you meant to imply for your comparison). As I understand it, even assuming both diets are ketogenic, fat is a necessary nutrient and has been linked to combatting depression among other things.0 -
Thank you for all comments but it's all just so confusing for me. I've done lots of research since beginning dieting in December & am definitely happier with the whole low carb high protein thing etc. The overly scientific part though I don't really understand...but obviously I want to. I worry that I'm just not doing ENOUGH or there's something better I could be doing?
I don't eat much fruit at all, I stick to veggies, dairy, poultry & fish. Here is a typical daily plan (I eat pretty much the same thing every day it's easier for me & I love what I eat). I never, ever use oils or salt or anything to cook with, I only use spices and seasoning & use non stick foils & pans etc. This is nothing to do with dieting I've always cooked this way, even when I was 28lbs heavier - just personal preference.
Breakfast - 3 large eggs scrambled with 1bs of dunns river all purpose seasoning.
Lunch - ASDA watercress, spinach & rocket with red chard salad with 125g tin of skinless. boneless mackerel in brine - nothing extra added.
Dinner - 1 skinless boneless chicken thigh or breast (100g) seasoned with 1tbsp dunns river chicken seasoning, 1tbsp dunns river all purpose seasoning, 1tbsp ground cinnamon, 1tbsp rosemary, 1tbsp dried parsley with 1 cup of broccoli, or 1 cup of green beans, or 1 cup curly kale
If I get hungry in between, which usually doesn't happen, I'll have about 200ml full fat milk, or a 170g pot of total 0% fat greek yoghurt.
I drink 2-4lts water every single day, plus coffee at work that I make myself.0 -
wait....OP, what was your question again?0
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Cool video :drinker:
some of the comments listed below the video are face-palm worthy but the video was indeed entertaining
(edited for clarification)0 -
To clarify to OP, I think we answered your question about having too much fat (don't be afraid of it). Now we are having the discussion of whether or not you can have too much protein on a VLC (among other things).What's funny is you ask a question then propose part of the answer.
It's not too much protein that will reduce ketogenesis it's any protein. "Too much" is an arbitrary assessment from keto fans that have basic understanding of ketogenesis. Even when large ketones are present in the urine blood glucose levels can still be at 70+ mg/dL. That means that the gluconeogenesis is still producing glucose. Without any glucose blood glucose levels will drop to < 60 mg/dL (after a week long water fast for example mine was 49 mg/dL).So to recap/repeat, the more protein you consume the less ketogenesis will occur and this occurs at even smaller intakes of protein.False. Glucose is highly valued... really preserve lean mass well.
I'm not sure I understand fully or maybe I didn't make my question clear (for advice for OP and advice for us all): is there ever such a thing as too much protein for ketogenic purposes? If more protein produces more of an anti-ketogenic effect, why isn't eating enough/moderate protein more effective than high protein? Is it because strong ketosis isn't that important and/or your protein intake hardly affects the amount of ketosis?
Let's say we aren't lifting. Would we be better off one way or the other. Would weight loss come easier or quicker with certain ratios over others (as long as carbs are low)? Are we not maintaining lean muscle mass at any % of protein until we lift?
So what is the recommendation to OP? Keep it up and lift?Not sure I get what you're trying to say here because these studies don't just focus on weight, my focus has been on the biochemistry of energy substrate usage, and ketogenic diets are supposed to be predominantly fat.
I guess my point here was that I wasn't sure what you were implying by "no differences," but I think you mean to say differences for everything that was observed. I think my point is just that there potentially are more things to observe, but this isn't an important point.0 -
nothing wrong with a high fat diet (simply calories in, calories out) so long as you avoid sats and trans fat.Carry on what you're doing and be patient - you have already made a good loss so far0
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Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!
My daily goals are set for 70% Fat, 25% Protein and 5% carbs.
I eat about 2lbs/ a kg of bacon, cheese and pork crackling a week - they are delicious dipped in full fat aioli!
I have coconut cream, full fat cream, plenty of chicken and eggs too. Also about 3-4 litres of water a day.
I feel pretty awesome eating this way - my skin is clearer (used to break out a lot), I sleep and exercise better and think clearer and have loads of energy.
When I do eat carby things (sweets/bread/baking/chocolate/potatoes/pasta/rice/icecream etc) I get quite gassy, sleepy and feel bloated, I also tend to breakout with pimples within 24-48 hours.
It doesn't work for everyone, but this way of eating certainly feels good to me.
Are there any other sources for fat you could recommend?
I think I should have more fats, I am trying to cut down my carbs (don't eat bread or pasta) but even things like sweet potato and carrots have a lot of carbs.. Avocado has healthy fats but carbs too.
I don't understand how people manage to keep their carbs so low! I'm not looking to go keto but def to get my carbs somewhat lower.0 -
Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!
My daily goals are set for 70% Fat, 25% Protein and 5% carbs.
I eat about 2lbs/ a kg of bacon, cheese and pork crackling a week - they are delicious dipped in full fat aioli!
I have coconut cream, full fat cream, plenty of chicken and eggs too. Also about 3-4 litres of water a day.
I feel pretty awesome eating this way - my skin is clearer (used to break out a lot), I sleep and exercise better and think clearer and have loads of energy.
When I do eat carby things (sweets/bread/baking/chocolate/potatoes/pasta/rice/icecream etc) I get quite gassy, sleepy and feel bloated, I also tend to breakout with pimples within 24-48 hours.
It doesn't work for everyone, but this way of eating certainly feels good to me.
Are there any other sources for fat you could recommend?
I think I should have more fats, I am trying to cut down my carbs (don't eat bread or pasta) but even things like sweet potato and carrots have a lot of carbs.. Avocado has healthy fats but carbs too.
I don't understand how people manage to keep their carbs so low! I'm not looking to go keto but def to get my carbs somewhat lower.
It always depends on your goals and where you are at the time. Cut carrots and sweet potatoes, full-fat instead of non/low-fat, put heavy cream, sour cream, butter, cheese, etc. on everything, eat more fatty animal fat (beef, chicken skin-on, etc.), drink water instead of milk (even whole milk has a good amount of carbs).
Also count net carbs instead of total.
I see your "Sainsbury - Small Avocado, 0.5 Avocado" item looks a little fishy in the database. It says 72 kcal, 7 g fat, 4 g carbs, 0 g fiber, 1 g protein. Most avocados I am familiar with have an amount of protein that should register on nutritional info. So I did the algebra and found a more likely amount of fiber for .5 of that avocado. Obviously, it is still limited to rounding errors. 72 kcal with 7 g fat and 1 g protein generally means net carbs are 1.25 g. That means the fiber should be about 2.75 g.0 -
Watch the carbs in milk, there is anywhere from 11-14g which is all sugar 1 cup of whole milk. I'd rather use those carbs on a nice side dish of vegetables.0
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Glad to see this post. I started something similiar in june, but my protein is not high also, its average/ moderate. And my low carb is avg 60 a day[.max 100 on weight lifting days) I do half my weight in grams for protein. My fats @ 65%. I eat nuts, cheese, cook with eevo and butter my veggies. I had to make up the caloric difference of less carbs. Was told not to do it by eating too much protein, could be counter productive. Looking forward to reading responses.0
http://youtu.be/RehCW0KM8RM
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