HIGH fat, HIGH protein, VERY low carb diet.

Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!

As another poster said, you want high fat, moderate protein, low carb, not high protein. Too much protein can be turned into glucose the same way as carbs. Like Ronnie my macros are set to 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs and this has really worked for me.

http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq

The process of converting amino acids to glucose is called gluconeogenesis. While this does create glucose which staves off ketosis this can be a good thing. It's not "too much" protein that does this it's really any protein because the body needs glucose although while in ketosis it's significantly reduced. The body won't create enough glucose from this process to spike the blood sugar. There's no studies that shows significant differences between a high fat, high protein diet and a high fat, moderate protein diet. The big benefit of having high protein too is that body can maintain and even still build muscle. Ketogenic diets will create lean mass losses as displayed by many studies.

As another poster said, you want high fat, moderate protein, low carb, not high protein. Too much protein can be turned into glucose the same way as carbs. Like Ronnie my macros are set to 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs and this has really worked for me.

http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq

The process of converting amino acids to glucose is called gluconeogenesis. While this does create glucose which staves off ketosis this can be a good thing. It's not "too much" protein that does this it's really any protein because the body needs glucose although while in ketosis it's significantly reduced. The body won't create enough glucose from this process to spike the blood sugar. There's no studies that shows significant differences between a high fat, high protein diet and a high fat, moderate protein diet. The big benefit of having high protein too is that body can maintain and even still build muscle. Ketogenic diets will create lean mass losses as displayed by many studies.

What's funny is you ask a question then propose part of the answer. It's not too much protein that will reduce ketogenesis it's any protein. "Too much" is an arbitrary assessment from keto fans that have basic understanding of ketogenesis. Even when large ketones are present in the urine blood glucose levels can still be at 70+ mg/dL. That means that the gluconeogenesis is still producing glucose. Without any glucose blood glucose levels will drop to < 60 mg/dL (after a week long water fast for example mine was 49 mg/dL).

So to recap/repeat, the more protein you consume the less ketogenesis will occur and this occurs at even smaller intakes of protein.

False. Glucose is highly valued... really preserve lean mass well.

Not sure I get what you're trying to say here because these studies don't just focus on weight, my focus has been on the biochemistry of energy substrate usage, and ketogenic diets are supposed to be predominantly fat.

Please tell me your take on high fat & high protein diets? Please also note that I know very well that complex carbs are an important part of your diet, but personally health wise I am better off with very little of this in my diet!
Thanks!

My daily goals are set for 70% Fat, 25% Protein and 5% carbs.

I eat about 2lbs/ a kg of bacon, cheese and pork crackling a week - they are delicious dipped in full fat aioli!

I have coconut cream, full fat cream, plenty of chicken and eggs too. Also about 3-4 litres of water a day.

I feel pretty awesome eating this way - my skin is clearer (used to break out a lot), I sleep and exercise better and think clearer and have loads of energy.

When I do eat carby things (sweets/bread/baking/chocolate/potatoes/pasta/rice/icecream etc) I get quite gassy, sleepy and feel bloated, I also tend to breakout with pimples within 24-48 hours.

It doesn't work for everyone, but this way of eating certainly feels good to me.

If I get hungry in between, which usually doesn't happen, I'll have about 200ml full fat milk, or a 170g pot of total 0% fat greek yoghurt.

You may want to open your diary to get more specific advice.

I think you have the problem backwards. You should be more worried about too much protein. Very Low Carb diets work best when you are eating High fat, Moderate protein, and Low carbohydrates. The reason for this has to do with the general strategy of low carb diets: keep your blood sugar low, keep your insulin response down, and your body will be more willing to burn body fat for energy sources. The problem with eating too much protein (and the exact amount is different for everyone based on their level of activity) is that your body can turn protein into glucose (gluconeogenesis). This causes an insulin response, which combats the basic strategy. Gluconeogenesis also occurs to fat (and it definitely occurs to carbs), but it doesn't create as much of an insulin response. The reason protein isn't also low in proportion is because your body requires protein to function and perform activities (if you don't get enough protein, you will lose muscle mass. This is why some people refer to the amount of protein as ENOUGH instead of simply MODERATE). The more active you are, the more protein you need per lean body mass.

Now this isn't to say that you won't achieve weight loss eating high amounts of protein, but there are certain advantages to optimizing your ratios. If you keep your blood sugar and insulin response down long enough, your body will adapt (to a more appropriate and natural diet your body was built for) and go into a state called ketosis. It's possible you are in it right now, but high protein can take you out of it. Ketosis is a state of rapid fat burning and it is linked to several health benefits including (but certainly not limited to) the cure for epilepsy, reduced cancer risk, certain better cholesterol/triglyceride indicators, and more energy. Also, it is a very satisfactory diet even on a calorie deficit.

Here is a calculator to help you figure out better ratios:
keto-calculator.ankerl.com

You said something about healthy fats, but I want to make sure you know what fats are actually healthy to eat: animal fats (meat and dairy), avocados, coconut oil, olive oil, nuts, and fish. Processed vegetable oils are unhealthy. Saturated fats are good. Make sure you get up your ratio of Omega-3s to 6s. Trans fats are bad when you get too many. They occur in trace amounts in nature, which is fine, but stay away when there is an abnormal amount in artificially produced foods.

Also, complex carbs are not necessarily an important part of a diet. First, let's clarify something. Complex carbohydrates is actually a vague term and not quite helpful, especially when discussing (very) low carb diets. I'm going to introduce you to another term that every low-carber needs to know: net carbs. Net carbs (usually counted in grams) are total carbohydrates - dietary fiber. The average person stays in ketosis (assuming you aren't getting too much protein) when you eat under 50 net carbs. Initial ketoers should probably only be getting 20-25 net carbs. Your intake of carbs should mostly be from vegetables (not fruit) and nuts.

So eat the skin on the poultry. Eat your steaks and bacon. Put cream, cheese, sour cream, and real butter on everything. Always choose full fat options over non-fat. And eat veggies.