"You can't build muscle on a deficit"
Berkables
Posts: 35
"You can't build muscle on a deficit" or "you can't build muscle on 1200 calories."
What exactly do people mean when they say this? I see it on this site all the time. They say that any weight you gain on 1200 cals/day, even if you're losing inches at the same time, cannot possibly be from muscle because it's impossible to build muscle on 1200 cals.
Does this mean that people who eat 1200 cals/day shouldn't bother strength training?
Does it mean they can't get stronger?
Does it mean they can't tone up? Or just that they can't bulk up (which many women, myself included, like to hear)?
I'm very confused. I eat 1200 cals most days, but I also average around 1600 cal/day for the week (because of two heavy eating days and five 1200 cal days). Are all the things people say about 1200 calories diets true for me, too? Does the "you can't gain muscle on 1200 cals/day" thing apply by the day or by the week?
I feel like I look smaller/more toned after lifting. Is that in my head? SO CONFUSED any words of wisdom appreciated
What exactly do people mean when they say this? I see it on this site all the time. They say that any weight you gain on 1200 cals/day, even if you're losing inches at the same time, cannot possibly be from muscle because it's impossible to build muscle on 1200 cals.
Does this mean that people who eat 1200 cals/day shouldn't bother strength training?
Does it mean they can't get stronger?
Does it mean they can't tone up? Or just that they can't bulk up (which many women, myself included, like to hear)?
I'm very confused. I eat 1200 cals most days, but I also average around 1600 cal/day for the week (because of two heavy eating days and five 1200 cal days). Are all the things people say about 1200 calories diets true for me, too? Does the "you can't gain muscle on 1200 cals/day" thing apply by the day or by the week?
I feel like I look smaller/more toned after lifting. Is that in my head? SO CONFUSED any words of wisdom appreciated
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Replies
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For someone who is just starting out and is completely fat with very little muscle that's not true. You'll be able to lose body and build muscle with proper resistance training.0
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getting stronger =/= muscle gains. you can get stronger without building muscle, especially if you are just starting out. you may also see some muscle gains in the first couple weeks of lifting (people call these "noob gains")
strength training is still very important while eating at a calorie deficit as it helps reduce muscle loss throughout the weight loss process.
"toning up" is essentially losing body fat around muscles which exposes the muscle tissue
yes it is in your head. lifting actually makes your muscles swell up a bit0 -
Generally what's meant by that is you will not add to your total lean body mass at a caloric deficit. Might you see some targeted gains in certain situations? Yes, it's at least possible. But will your total lean body mass be increasing? Almost certainly not. The main reason to lift on a deficit is that you can still gain a lot of strength (particularly as a beginner) and it helps you retain the lean body mass you've already got. If you happen to make some gains on top of that, great, but the main reasons to lift at a deficit are improved strength and LBM retention.0
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...the main reasons to lift at a deficit are improved strength and LBM retention.
QFT. But I would also add that strength training (and medium impact movement of any kind) helps to retain bone mass <-- very important when losing weight and/or eating at a deficit.0 -
I've wondered this too. Because I lift weights and squat, but I'm also in a deficit because I want to lose weight until I reach my goal weight. So does that mean I'm wasting my time lifting and squatting and shouldn't do it until I reach my goal weight..?0
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People on here can be ever so helpful until you venture into the 1200 calorie conversation. Everyone has a different opinion and all of them are sure they are 100% correct and everyone else is wrong
Although 1200 isnt good for MOST people and more calories are needed for that. I would talk to your doctor about your dietary needs and goals ( or perhaps a referral to a nutritionist thats working with your doctor to tailor a diet guide to your needs) Its certainly NOT impossible. I was on 1200 calories for 3/4 of my journey ( BUT i have polycystic ovarian syndrome, hashimotos hypothyroid and a pituitary condition called hyperprolactinemia which all effect the metabolism and cause weight gain so needed a lower caloric intake which was prescribed to me by my endocrinologist working with the hospital nutritionist.. btw was the best thing i ever could of done was seeing an ACTUAL nutritionist ) 0 -
I've wondered this too. Because I lift weights and squat, but I'm also in a deficit because I want to lose weight until I reach my goal weight. So does that mean I'm wasting my time lifting and squatting and shouldn't do it until I reach my goal weight..?
Think of it this way - body fat percentage is what's more important than your "goal weight." If you lose a significant amount of muscle mass by the time you reach your goal weight, you'll still have a relatively high body fat percentage. On the other hand, if you get enough protein and lift (factors known to help you retain LBM), you'll have more muscle mass by the time you reach your goal weight and thus have a lower body fat percentage. How you look and feel at your goal weight can vary dramatically depending on your BF %.0 -
I've wondered this too. Because I lift weights and squat, but I'm also in a deficit because I want to lose weight until I reach my goal weight. So does that mean I'm wasting my time lifting and squatting and shouldn't do it until I reach my goal weight..?
Not at all. You can gain muscle strength and endurance even if you're not adding actual mass to your muscles. And lifting or resistance training while losing weight will help you maintain the lean body mass you do have, so when you get to your goal weight, you'll probably be much happier with your overall body composition. People who eat at a larger calorie deficit and don't do resistance training along the way are more likely to lose more lean body mass as they lose weight, resulting in a higher body fat percentage.0 -
this is typically the general opinion that people have about 1200 calorie diets..... most just warn people about the dangers of LC dieting when they see that numberPeople on here can be ever so helpful until you venture into the 1200 calorie conversation. Everyone has a different opinion and all of them are sure they are 100% correct and everyone else is wrong Although 1200 isnt good for MOST people and more calories are needed for that. I would talk to your doctor about your dietary needs and goals ( or perhaps a referral to a nutritionist thats working with your doctor to tailor a diet guide to your needs) Its certainly NOT impossible. I was on 1200 calories for 3/4 of my journey ( BUT i have polycystic ovarian syndrome, hashimotos hypothyroid and a pituitary condition called hyperprolactinemia which all effect the metabolism and cause weight gain so needed a lower caloric intake which was prescribed to me by my endocrinologist working with the hospital nutritionist.. btw was the best thing i ever could of done was seeing an ACTUAL nutritionist )0 -
this is typically the general opinion that people have about 1200 calorie diets..... most just warn people about the dangers of LC dieting when they see that numberPeople on here can be ever so helpful until you venture into the 1200 calorie conversation. Everyone has a different opinion and all of them are sure they are 100% correct and everyone else is wrong Although 1200 isnt good for MOST people and more calories are needed for that. I would talk to your doctor about your dietary needs and goals ( or perhaps a referral to a nutritionist thats working with your doctor to tailor a diet guide to your needs) Its certainly NOT impossible. I was on 1200 calories for 3/4 of my journey ( BUT i have polycystic ovarian syndrome, hashimotos hypothyroid and a pituitary condition called hyperprolactinemia which all effect the metabolism and cause weight gain so needed a lower caloric intake which was prescribed to me by my endocrinologist working with the hospital nutritionist.. btw was the best thing i ever could of done was seeing an ACTUAL nutritionist )
^^Yep, and many of those who get a talking to about the LC diet are those who are quite young, have little to lose, and set their goal too aggressive....or have an underlying medical condition that they don't reveal until page 5 of the thread, total invalidating any advice in the prior pages.
Yes you can gain some muscle in a deficit. Those people are normally A) Morbidly Obese
Brand new to training or C) The returning athlete. These gains are usually pretty small and once complete, gaining any more appreciable mass is next to impossible on a deficit.
What does happen is you maintain the muscle mass while losing fat, so when the fat is stripped away from the muscle you have better definition. Along with that will come gains in strength thanks to the muscle training.0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful! 0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
If you don't reveal the facts (like height) when stating that you're following a lower calorie diet could be construed as inviting those telling you that you're probably not eating enough.....IMHO0 -
I've wondered this too. Because I lift weights and squat, but I'm also in a deficit because I want to lose weight until I reach my goal weight. So does that mean I'm wasting my time lifting and squatting and shouldn't do it until I reach my goal weight..?
Not at all. You can gain muscle strength and endurance even if you're not adding actual mass to your muscles. And lifting or resistance training while losing weight will help you maintain the lean body mass you do have, so when you get to your goal weight, you'll probably be much happier with your overall body composition. People who eat at a larger calorie deficit and don't do resistance training along the way are more likely to lose more lean body mass as they lose weight, resulting in a higher body fat percentage.
That's what I thought. My body fat percentage is currently 22% which is in range, so I feel leaner, so I'm just going to continue with my mix of cardio and weights because I like doing both 0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
If you don't reveal the facts (like height) when stating that you're following a lower calorie diet could be construed as inviting those telling you that you're probably not eating enough.....IMHO
I see what you're saying, but I've posted things like asking about how to up my fat intake or what are good high protein snacks for a 1200 diet. That is not at all asking for opinions on my 1200 cal diet (which is actually a 1600/day average diet when looking at the whole week, but I am asking about getting in fats on 1200 cal days). So... disagree about the "inviting" part. I hate how I have to put a disclaimer on posts like "Please do not comment on the 1200 diet on this thread". Not a big deal, just a little annoying0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
Aye
Its like they just see 1200 calorie and red lights flash behind their eyes and they go poo flinging ape lol hheh Your post has had some rather fortunate pleasant responses 0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
If you don't reveal the facts (like height) when stating that you're following a lower calorie diet could be construed as inviting those telling you that you're probably not eating enough.....IMHO
I see what you're saying, but I've posted things like asking about how to up my fat intake or what are good high protein snacks for a 1200 diet. That is not at all asking for opinions on my 1200 cal diet (which is actually a 1600/day average diet when looking at the whole week, but I am asking about getting in fats on 1200 cal days). So... disagree about the "inviting" part. I hate how I have to put a disclaimer on posts like "Please do not comment on the 1200 diet on this thread". Not a big deal, just a little annoying
You're asking people questions where the first thing they may do is look at your diary for further insight.....they're going to notice your intake without other stats. Thus the invitation.....IMHO0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
Aye Its like they just see 1200 calorie and red lights flash behind their eyes and they go poo flinging ape sh*$ lol hheh Your post has had some rather fortunate pleasant responses 
0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
If you don't reveal the facts (like height) when stating that you're following a lower calorie diet could be construed as inviting those telling you that you're probably not eating enough.....IMHO
I see what you're saying, but I've posted things like asking about how to up my fat intake or what are good high protein snacks for a 1200 diet. That is not at all asking for opinions on my 1200 cal diet (which is actually a 1600/day average diet when looking at the whole week, but I am asking about getting in fats on 1200 cal days). So... disagree about the "inviting" part. I hate how I have to put a disclaimer on posts like "Please do not comment on the 1200 diet on this thread". Not a big deal, just a little annoying
Especially because even AFTER the disclaimer people will post things like, "I know you said not to comment on it, but...blahblahblah."0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
If you don't reveal the facts (like height) when stating that you're following a lower calorie diet could be construed as inviting those telling you that you're probably not eating enough.....IMHO
I see what you're saying, but I've posted things like asking about how to up my fat intake or what are good high protein snacks for a 1200 diet. That is not at all asking for opinions on my 1200 cal diet (which is actually a 1600/day average diet when looking at the whole week, but I am asking about getting in fats on 1200 cal days). So... disagree about the "inviting" part. I hate how I have to put a disclaimer on posts like "Please do not comment on the 1200 diet on this thread". Not a big deal, just a little annoying
You're asking people questions where the first thing they may do is look at your diary for further insight.....they're going to notice your intake without other stats. Thus the invitation.....IMHO
I'm pretty sure saying "please don't comment on the 1200/cal diet" is exactly the opposite of an invitation...0 -
...the main reasons to lift at a deficit are improved strength and LBM retention.
QFT. But I would also add that strength training (and medium impact movement of any kind) helps to retain bone mass <-- very important when losing weight and/or eating at a deficit.
Only if you want to avoid osteoporosis.0 -
In my experience muscles will not grow large on a deficit. But they will return to a normal healthy state if they have become atrophied. You won't get spectacular muscles. But if you have a muscle or muscle group that is atrophied and tiny work that **** it will grow.0
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Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
If you don't reveal the facts (like height) when stating that you're following a lower calorie diet could be construed as inviting those telling you that you're probably not eating enough.....IMHO
I see what you're saying, but I've posted things like asking about how to up my fat intake or what are good high protein snacks for a 1200 diet. That is not at all asking for opinions on my 1200 cal diet (which is actually a 1600/day average diet when looking at the whole week, but I am asking about getting in fats on 1200 cal days). So... disagree about the "inviting" part. I hate how I have to put a disclaimer on posts like "Please do not comment on the 1200 diet on this thread". Not a big deal, just a little annoying
You're asking people questions where the first thing they may do is look at your diary for further insight.....they're going to notice your intake without other stats. Thus the invitation.....IMHO
I'm pretty sure saying "please don't comment on the 1200/cal diet" is exactly the opposite of an invitation...
You're posting a question on a public message board...where you can't control the replies you're going to get...about a portion of your intake...invitation IMHO.
EDIT: How are people supposed to reply when you want to up a macro on a LC diet (probably well below BMR) without mentioning you'll probably have to up your intake?
I mean I'd tell you that you lost fat through deficit, and maintained muscle through lifting, but if you wanted to gain muscle you'd need to up your intake. 1600 cals is still about 400 calories below TDEE (Approximately because I don't know weight.)0 -
this is typically the general opinion that people have about 1200 calorie diets..... most just warn people about the dangers of LC dieting when they see that numberPeople on here can be ever so helpful until you venture into the 1200 calorie conversation. Everyone has a different opinion and all of them are sure they are 100% correct and everyone else is wrong Although 1200 isnt good for MOST people and more calories are needed for that. I would talk to your doctor about your dietary needs and goals ( or perhaps a referral to a nutritionist thats working with your doctor to tailor a diet guide to your needs) Its certainly NOT impossible. I was on 1200 calories for 3/4 of my journey ( BUT i have polycystic ovarian syndrome, hashimotos hypothyroid and a pituitary condition called hyperprolactinemia which all effect the metabolism and cause weight gain so needed a lower caloric intake which was prescribed to me by my endocrinologist working with the hospital nutritionist.. btw was the best thing i ever could of done was seeing an ACTUAL nutritionist )
^^Yep, and many of those who get a talking to about the LC diet are those who are quite young, have little to lose, and set their goal too aggressive....or have an underlying medical condition that they don't reveal until page 5 of the thread, total invalidating any advice in the prior pages.
Yes you can gain some muscle in a deficit. Those people are normally A) Morbidly Obese Brand new to training or C) The returning athlete. These gains are usually pretty small and once complete, gaining any more appreciable mass is next to impossible on a deficit.
What does happen is you maintain the muscle mass while losing fat, so when the fat is stripped away from the muscle you have better definition. Along with that will come gains in strength thanks to the muscle training.
Good answer RGv2, you are 100% correct.....0 -
Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
Aye Its like they just see 1200 calorie and red lights flash behind their eyes and they go poo flinging ape sh*$ lol hheh Your post has had some rather fortunate pleasant responses
Ty RG for finding my reply so important that you took the time to go search for a REALLY cool GIF and type in the html to post it! Thanks!0 -
IMHO and based upon my personal experience you can build muscle on a deficit... I'ts very difficult, you have to be meticulous with your macros, and you can't expect any large gains. I wonder if anyone has heard of re-composition while running a deficit? The main thing you achieve is minor muscle gains (which were shown by utilizing a tape measure), % body fat loss (shown by use of an OMRON HBF-306), and weight loss (use of a beam scale). I have to emphasize IT IS VERY DIFFICULT, but it is possible! I grew weary of all of the people that told me I couldn't do it ("it's impossible") when I was doing it. But in reality, those negative people provided me inspiration to prove them wrong!0
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IMHO and based upon my personal experience you can build muscle on a deficit... I'ts very difficult, you have to be meticulous with your macros, and you can't expect any large gains. I wonder if anyone has heard of re-composition while running a deficit? The main thing you achieve is minor muscle gains (which were shown by utilizing a tape measure), % body fat loss (shown by use of an OMRON HBF-306), and weight loss (use of a beam scale). I have to emphasize IT IS VERY DIFFICULT, but it is possible! I grew weary of all of the people that told me I couldn't do it ("it's impossible") when I was doing it. But in reality, those negative people provided me inspiration to prove them wrong!
So, what you're saying is....
You ran a deficit the whole time? ...which isn't recomp0 -
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Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
Aye Its like they just see 1200 calorie and red lights flash behind their eyes and they go poo flinging ape sh*$ lol hheh Your post has had some rather fortunate pleasant responses
Ty RG for finding my reply so important that you took the time to go search for a REALLY cool GIF and type in the html to post it! Thanks!
Sure, no problem...... I know, 5 seconds of my life I'll never get back.
Serious Question: Why would you think I'd (or anyone else for that matter) type in the address?0 -
This content has been removed.
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Okkkk thanks, I think I understand now. I will continue to lift and do squats etc..
I agree that people on this site can be WAY too judgmental about the 1200/cal diet when that is not the point of the thread and they have no idea about other factors. (People also don't understand that 4'9 women can and should eat a lot less. Lot's of knee-jerk reactions when one size does not fit all!) I also agree that explaining the reason why LC may not be great to newbies or 16 year olds with 10 lbs to lose can be helpful... I just wish people could be kinder/a little slower to react I feel the same way about people who say "you can't gain muscle on a deficit" without really reading the facts. This has been super helpful!
Aye Its like they just see 1200 calorie and red lights flash behind their eyes and they go poo flinging ape sh*$ lol hheh Your post has had some rather fortunate pleasant responses
Ty RG for finding my reply so important that you took the time to go search for a REALLY cool GIF and type in the html to post it! Thanks!
Sure, no problem...... I know, 5 seconds of my life I'll never get back.
Serious Question: Why would you think I'd (or anyone else for that matter) type in the address?
Um dude, html is code, http is an address0
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