So exactly when does all the bad stuff happen?

BoxerBrawler
BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
So I am wondering when all the bad stuff that I keep hearing about e.g., ruined metabolism, muscle loss, starvation mode, etc. is supposed to happen? I have been going strong for a year and three months, still solid with a fairly substantial deficit and/or negative net at the end of the day about 90% of the time. I have not experienced any of the scary stuff people like to talk about. Honestly, I just continue to feel better and stronger with more energy and endurance...

Anyone else experience this? Anyone experience a "Real" crash and burn? Could it be that everyone is just different and some can tolerate and/or even thrive on extreme low calorie and hard work and others can't? I would love to understand this because many folks took great pains in 'warning' me of the dangers. Well, I am in deep waters and there are no dangers as far as the eye can see. Is there a magical time-frame like two years in? I know that a body can take a lot of abuse for a long time before breaking down, but how long exactly? Could it also be true that a body will actually learn to adapt to it's new environment when given no other choice?

I am not being sarcastic here, I really would like to hear some stories and opinions on all of this. And I don't mean opinions or nastiness toward me and please no lectures and no opinions on my own health and nutrition plan.

Just personal experience, personal perspective based on what we have heard, read, etc.
There is so much conflicting information!
I'd love to hear some real life experiences.

Thanks!
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Replies

  • HerbertNenenger
    HerbertNenenger Posts: 453 Member
    One year and 7 pounds lost does not an expert make, or is that a real number? Doesn't seem like it was any big feat to begin with if those are your true numbers.
  • BigT555
    BigT555 Posts: 2,067 Member
    ive been cutting cals for 8 months now and i dont feel any of the "bad stuff" either. that more for those who take the extreme approach and do VLC diets. if you set a reasonable calorie goal for yourself then you should be fine

    to those other questions you asked, it is very dependent on the person, but there isnt really any solid info out there that allows us to do anything other than speculate
  • kk_140
    kk_140 Posts: 518 Member
    *pokes with a ten foot pole*

    I agree that it depends on the person. I'm not saying everyone should go out and eat 500 calories a day, everyone should aim for a moderate deficit . A moderate deficit is different depending on the people though. 1,200 calories is not moderate at all for a woman who is 6 feet tall, but also 1,200 calories is not much of a deficit for someone who is 4'10".

    Also, starvation mode as it is commonly used on these forums is a myth.
  • _HeartsOnFire_
    _HeartsOnFire_ Posts: 5,304 Member
    Do you weigh all of your foods?

    How do you know you're burning 1000 calories with exercise? MFP calorie burns or heart rate monitor?

    (I peaked your food/exercise diary). Personally, your burns seem high and if you are not weighing your foods then you are eating more than you think. So your deficit probably isn't as high as you think it may be.
  • _HeartsOnFire_
    _HeartsOnFire_ Posts: 5,304 Member
    I'm also confused are you looking to find people who are on VLCD and have them tell you their experiences?
  • sfbaumgarten
    sfbaumgarten Posts: 912 Member
    *pokes with a ten foot pole*

    You're brave. I'm just here to spectate :wink:
  • sevsmom
    sevsmom Posts: 1,172 Member
    The word EXTREME is your first and largest mistake. Nourishing your body should never, in my humble opinion, include the word extreme. Unless you are saying the food you ate was extremely tasty, extremely spicy, extremely satisfying, or extremely disgusting. at 45 years old, you should have learned at least that by now. Extremes rarely do anyone long term good thing. Of course, you may be the extreme exception to the rule.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • BigT555
    BigT555 Posts: 2,067 Member
    check out her profile people. shes lost 50
  • DYELB
    DYELB Posts: 7,407 Member
    When your perceived calorie intake matches reality and you try to stay active.
  • gypsy_spirit
    gypsy_spirit Posts: 2,107 Member
    ETA: Posted before I was made aware of your cal. burns. Not sure how you are measuring those, but that changes my answer. You do you. Good luck.
  • healthygreek
    healthygreek Posts: 2,137 Member
    OP has lost a lot more-she has 7 pounds TO GO!

    OP, I don't see that you are on a VLCD. You are eating healthily and well within a decent goal.
    You may not be burning as many calories as you think.
    Congratulations on your loss!
  • rowboc22
    rowboc22 Posts: 15 Member
    I general stick to a 1200 cal deficit and dont eat back exercise cals, but evey 6-8months i do a VLCD and tend to find this is when i lose (and keep off) my biggest amounts.

    Both VLC Diets i've done in the last year i've lost 8lbs each time and kept it off, i'm currently mid way through one and still attending my boot camp and feel no ill effect from doing this as a posed to when im eating more.

    Im not saying eveyone should do these or even that they are a good idea as i understand the cons and the very real possiblilty of gaining back the weight but for me it works so i'm sticking with it. It gives me a much needed boost as 2 and half years into my journey i sometime lack that bit of motivation to keep going and doing a VLCD for a few weeks gives me that needed boost.

    I think like you say everyone is different and it will come down to how you change your lifestyle as well as eating at the calorie deficet you choose. At the end of the day it all comes down to CALS in vs CALS out whether you chose to do that with a small deficit or a large deficit is up to you. Do what works for you.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    One year and 7 pounds lost does not an expert make, or is that a real number? Doesn't seem like it was any big feat to begin with if those are your true numbers.

    No. It's one year and over 80 pounds. I have seven vanity pounds to go.
    And I don't claim to be an expert at anything. Thanks anyway.
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    Your diary for the last week shows you eating 1300 - 1600 calories per day. It looks like you are not doing an extreme diet. I believe the "bad stuff" happens when you restrict calories BELOW what is healthy for that individual. You know, the people that are netting 300 - 600 calories a day.

    I have been at 1500 - 1600 calories - give or take - for 2 and 1/2 years. I'm fine too. Because I meet my macros, meet my calories. So, what is the point of this post?
    The OP wrote that she has been at , "...a fairly substantial deficit and/or negative net at the end of the day about 90% of the time." Negative net. You don't think that's extreme?
  • elliej
    elliej Posts: 466 Member
    Whether you have 'ruined' your metabolism won't be apparent until you start eating at maintenance... that's kind of the point.

    Muscle loss is almost inevitable at a high deficit, and it is a 'bad thing' but it's not the end of the world. The point is to try and preserve musculature which will help with how your body looks as the end result (You've probably heard of 'skinny fat', also a bit of a myth but I'd sure rather not have loads of soft saggy bits)

    Starvation mode doesn't exist unless you are starving (as in real famine, not a bit fat and a bit hungry)

    (edit to correct typo)
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,286 Member
    I didn't have any bad stuff happen to me - but I didn't eat a VLCD, just stuck to the calorie goal MFP gave me.

    Will add I didn't have great amount to lose so not sure if my experience is relevant.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Do you weigh all of your foods?

    How do you know you're burning 1000 calories with exercise? MFP calorie burns or heart rate monitor?

    (I peaked your food/exercise diary). Personally, your burns seem high and if you are not weighing your foods then you are eating more than you think. So your deficit probably isn't as high as you think it may be.

    Thanks. Yes I weigh and log my foods and am pretty specific about it. Not perfect of course but I'd say 95%. For my calorie burns I use a combination of numbers on MFP, Fitbit, Nano step tracker, HRM and my machines that are set for my personal stats. I have to say all of the numbers are pretty close to each other with MFP on the high side and Fitbit on the low side.
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    Whether you have 'ruined' your metabolism won't be apparent until you start eating at maintenance... that's kind of the point.
    If you're eating at maintenance, how will your "ruined" metabolism manifest itself?
  • _HeartsOnFire_
    _HeartsOnFire_ Posts: 5,304 Member
    Your diary for the last week shows you eating 1300 - 1600 calories per day. It looks like you are not doing an extreme diet. I believe the "bad stuff" happens when you restrict calories BELOW what is healthy for that individual. You know, the people that are netting 300 - 600 calories a day.

    I have been at 1500 - 1600 calories - give or take - for 2 and 1/2 years. I'm fine too. Because I meet my macros, meet my calories. So, what is the point of this post?
    The OP wrote that she has been at , "...a fairly substantial deficit and/or negative net at the end of the day about 90% of the time." Negative net. You don't think that's extreme?

    That is extreme, though looking at her diary, if she's not weighing her food, then she's eating more than she things. Also, pretty sure those burns are estimates that come from MFP - which we all now are incredibly high. So while OP thinks she's been on an extreme diet, she probably hasn't really been.

    ETA: Okay, OP says she weighs her foods and believes the calorie burn...

    So OP, just wondering the point of the post? If you are netting in the negative are you trying to promote this to other people? You want to find out when the 'bad' stuff happens, no one can give you a timeline. You'll know though if your hair starts falling out, your nails become brittle and if you have an EKG and it shows something is off with your heart. Not saying any of this is going to happen, but stay on a VLCD long enough and it will...along with other stuff.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    I general stick to a 1200 cal deficit and dont eat back exercise cals, but evey 6-8months i do a VLCD and tend to find this is when i lose (and keep off) my biggest amounts.

    Both VLC Diets i've done in the last year i've lost 8lbs each time and kept it off, i'm currently mid way through one and still attending my boot camp and feel no ill effect from doing this as a posed to when im eating more.

    Im not saying eveyone should do these or even that they are a good idea as i understand the cons and the very real possiblilty of gaining back the weight but for me it works so i'm sticking with it. It gives me a much needed boost as 2 and half years into my journey i sometime lack that bit of motivation to keep going and doing a VLCD for a few weeks gives me that needed boost.

    Thanks! This is a good perspective/experience :)

    I think like you say everyone is different and it will come down to how you change your lifestyle as well as eating at the calorie deficet you choose. At the end of the day it all comes down to CALS in vs CALS out whether you chose to do that with a small deficit or a large deficit is up to you. Do what works for you.
  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member
    From looking at your diary you're eating more than you think, and your calorie burns aren't as high as you think. I see you taking the fitbit adjustment and logging exercise.

    So you aren't on a very low calorie diet.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Your diary for the last week shows you eating 1300 - 1600 calories per day. It looks like you are not doing an extreme diet. I believe the "bad stuff" happens when you restrict calories BELOW what is healthy for that individual. You know, the people that are netting 300 - 600 calories a day.

    I have been at 1500 - 1600 calories - give or take - for 2 and 1/2 years. I'm fine too. Because I meet my macros, meet my calories. So, what is the point of this post?
    The OP wrote that she has been at , "...a fairly substantial deficit and/or negative net at the end of the day about 90% of the time." Negative net. You don't think that's extreme?

    That is extreme, though looking at her diary, if she's not weighing her food, then she's eating more than she things. Also, pretty sure those burns are estimates that come from MFP - which we all now are incredibly high. So while OP thinks she's been on an extreme diet, she probably hasn't really been.

    I am weighing my foods/liquids and am getting a close to accurate burn number.
  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member
    Your diary for the last week shows you eating 1300 - 1600 calories per day. It looks like you are not doing an extreme diet. I believe the "bad stuff" happens when you restrict calories BELOW what is healthy for that individual. You know, the people that are netting 300 - 600 calories a day.

    I have been at 1500 - 1600 calories - give or take - for 2 and 1/2 years. I'm fine too. Because I meet my macros, meet my calories. So, what is the point of this post?
    The OP wrote that she has been at , "...a fairly substantial deficit and/or negative net at the end of the day about 90% of the time." Negative net. You don't think that's extreme?

    That is extreme, though looking at her diary, if she's not weighing her food, then she's eating more than she things. Also, pretty sure those burns are estimates that come from MFP - which we all now are incredibly high. So while OP thinks she's been on an extreme diet, she probably hasn't really been.

    I am weighing my foods/liquids and am getting a close to accurate burn number.

    This is weighed?

    Pb2 - Peanut Butter, Powdered, 0.2 tablespoons
    Pb2 - Peanut Butter, Powdered, 2 tablespoons
    Peaches - Raw, 2 small (2" dia) (approx 5 per lb)
    Quick Added Calories, 70 calories
    Generic - Nuts - Almonds, One Almond, 2 almond
    Generic - Fresh Pineapple Chunks, 0.5 cup

    Those are just a few but you get the idea

    ETA: With your calorie burns you are logging your exercise on MFP and still taking your fitbit adjustment so you are double dipping on the burns. Your Zumba for example that will log steps on Fitbit so you are inflating your calorie burns
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    For me it happened when I switched to maintainance.
    I didn't gain all my weight back but it was a very difficult struggle. I don't want to eat a severely restricted diet calorie wise and at my size and activity level, I shouldn't have to.


    Plus I'm in the you likely overestimating your calories burned group. It doesn't really matter to me either way.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    The Adaptive Thermogenesis thread has about 15-20 people commenting on their own "crash and burn" experiences and the medical literature clearly identified a hysteresis effect to weight loss - the path you follow affects metabolism. So much for information.

    Whether you want to believe it or not - your business.

    Are you really keeping a significant cut now?
    Having lost 50 lbs your metabolism has shifted because, with weight loss, one needs a lot less to move around, etc... What you thought was a significant deficit is probably no longer that.

    If you are losing less than 2 lbs a week you are not in a "huge" deficit or you've impacted your metabolism.
    So unless you are planning to lose those remaining 7 vanity pounds in two or less weeks, I'm going to suggest that your significant "cut" isn't as large as you think it is.

    When was the last time you recalculated your TDEE?

    Now, if you really want to see what your max TDEE has been at different weight as you lose - run this:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/EvgeniZyntx/view/new-mfp-data-export-tool-major-update-659927

    Then post the image of the TDEE and TDEE vs Weight graphs and we can discuss if your TDEE has not changed over time.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Your diary for the last week shows you eating 1300 - 1600 calories per day. It looks like you are not doing an extreme diet. I believe the "bad stuff" happens when you restrict calories BELOW what is healthy for that individual. You know, the people that are netting 300 - 600 calories a day.

    I have been at 1500 - 1600 calories - give or take - for 2 and 1/2 years. I'm fine too. Because I meet my macros, meet my calories. So, what is the point of this post?
    The OP wrote that she has been at , "...a fairly substantial deficit and/or negative net at the end of the day about 90% of the time." Negative net. You don't think that's extreme?

    That is extreme, though looking at her diary, if she's not weighing her food, then she's eating more than she things. Also, pretty sure those burns are estimates that come from MFP - which we all now are incredibly high. So while OP thinks she's been on an extreme diet, she probably hasn't really been.

    ETA: Okay, OP says she weighs her foods and believes the calorie burn...

    So OP, just wondering the point of the post? If you are netting in the negative are you trying to promote this to other people? You want to find out when the 'bad' stuff happens, no one can give you a timeline. You'll know though if your hair starts falling out, your nails become brittle and if you have an EKG and it shows something is off with your heart. Not saying any of this is going to happen, but stay on a VLCD long enough and it will...along with other stuff.

    Nope, not promoting anything at all. Just looking to gain some personal perspective based on real life experience. Thanks.
  • elliej
    elliej Posts: 466 Member
    Whether you have 'ruined' your metabolism won't be apparent until you start eating at maintenance... that's kind of the point.
    If you're eating at maintenance, how will your "ruined" metabolism manifest itself?

    Well I used OP's word 'ruined' - I don't actually think it 'ruins'. From what I understand your metabolism slows down when you are eating at a massive deficit and it makes weight loss harder and then gives you a 'false' maintenance level because you 'gain' weight at a level you would normally maintain it. Maybe that's some broscience but seems feasible enough to me.
  • nomeejerome
    nomeejerome Posts: 2,616 Member
    :huh:
  • gypsy_spirit
    gypsy_spirit Posts: 2,107 Member
    Your diary for the last week shows you eating 1300 - 1600 calories per day. It looks like you are not doing an extreme diet. I believe the "bad stuff" happens when you restrict calories BELOW what is healthy for that individual. You know, the people that are netting 300 - 600 calories a day.

    I have been at 1500 - 1600 calories - give or take - for 2 and 1/2 years. I'm fine too. Because I meet my macros, meet my calories. So, what is the point of this post?
    The OP wrote that she has been at , "...a fairly substantial deficit and/or negative net at the end of the day about 90% of the time." Negative net. You don't think that's extreme?

    Sadly, I missed that part. I have revised my answer. Need more coffee, obviously.

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