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Eliminating toxins in fat cells by weight loss and exercise.

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Replies

  • v70t5m
    v70t5m Posts: 186 Member
    PapaChanoli,

    There appears to be an interesting mix of science and pseudo-science in this article.

    I'm intrigued by the fat soluble chemical release along with fat loss research. That makes a great deal of sense ... if there are no additional fat cells to enter, then fat soluble chemicals will flush from the system. Although, each of your fat cells would have to carry a pretty drastic load of toxins for the system to flush rather than re-distribute.

    However, I'm pessimistic that dietary supplementation in the form of niacin, clay, activated charcoal, or oils will actually "speed up" the flushing from the cardiovascular system.

    As to the sauna, most of what we lose via sweat is water soluble. So I do not believe the vasodilation due to heat and exercise will add to the fat soluble chemical loss in an appreciable way.


    *** My biggest NO-NO is aimed at this sentence, "A simple way to detoxify is to optimize your lean body mass, because you can’t store toxins if fat is absent."

    Unless we are dead, fat is present. And, therefore, fat soluble chemical storage will occur. Guaranteed.***


    OTOH, I have no doubt that some of our military, service, and other world citizens are suffering from a high fat soluble toxin load that exacerbates other conditions and are incredibly hard to diagnose (who knows how all our toxins interact, we are a chemical soup bubbling away, after all).

    So, ultimately, I applaud scientific research aimed at reducing fat soluble chemical load. It is much needed research ... I wonder if they've looked into heavy metals with this research?
  • PapaChanoli
    PapaChanoli Posts: 178 Member
    I've been thinking of building a shed in my back yard. It might be a good time to make a vodka sauna...


    I'll look into sauna and steam rooms. I know I'd love a bit of a warm up period after my swims, and prior to my shower. Hey, why not right?

    I think, as long as you drink water, have a decent diet, (so you're getting electrolytic minerals,) don't have respiratory issues it could affect negatively and don't stay in too long, it's a good thing.

    Gatorade's a waste of money when you can do the same things with a quart of water and a little cider vinigar, honey, ginger and a pinch of baking soda, but unless your workouts are pretty extreme I don't even think that's neccessary.

    I'm sure I could come up with more disclaimers if I try.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Yeah, the disclaimers are good. I've come to learn I'm a sweater.

    40oz per hour + during HRZ3 work at 60F is common for me. So I've gotten pretty aggressive with electrolytes. Good call mentioning those in your disclaimer.
  • Yurippe
    Yurippe Posts: 850 Member
    Dr. Simoncini claims that all cancer is due to a fungus. Actually, he claims that cancer is a fungus. Not just some cancers. All cancer. What, you may ask, is his reasoning? Well, fungus is white, and cancer is white; so that means that cancer is really a fungus.

    Fun fact: I learned in the forums yesterday that mayo and eggs are obviously dairy because they are white. Apparently cancer is also a dairy product!
  • PapaChanoli
    PapaChanoli Posts: 178 Member
    PapaChanoli,

    There appears to be an interesting mix of science and pseudo-science in this article.

    I'm intrigued by the fat soluble chemical release along with fat loss research. That makes a great deal of sense ... if there are no additional fat cells to enter, then fat soluble chemicals will flush from the system. Although, each of your fat cells would have to carry a pretty drastic load of toxins for the system to flush rather than re-distribute.

    However, I'm pessimistic that dietary supplementation in the form of niacin, clay, activated charcoal, or oils will actually "speed up" the flushing from the cardiovascular system.

    As to the sauna, most of what we lose via sweat is water soluble. So I do not believe the vasodilation due to heat and exercise will add to the fat soluble chemical loss in an appreciable way.


    *** My biggest NO-NO is aimed at this sentence, "A simple way to detoxify is to optimize your lean body mass, because you can’t store toxins if fat is absent."

    Unless we are dead, fat is present. And, therefore, fat soluble chemical storage will occur. Guaranteed.***


    OTOH, I have no doubt that some of our military, service, and other world citizens are suffering from a high fat soluble toxin load that exacerbates other conditions and are incredibly hard to diagnose (who knows how all our toxins interact, we are a chemical soup bubbling away, after all).

    So, ultimately, I applaud scientific research aimed at reducing fat soluble chemical load. It is much needed research ... I wonder if they've looked into heavy metals with this research?

    I'm right with you on this. The question still on my mind is related to your comments too. If toxins do move into the blood stream, but you are at a caorie deficit and storing less fat than you're burning, why would the toxins redistribute into your fat cells instead of just being eliminated naturally with the other waste products your cells are producing, whether it be through sweat, urine, etc?

    My understanding of the related biology is too limited to do more than guess at that one.

    This thread has just reinforced my old stand by thinking on all things Mercola: Weak at best and sometimes downright crap.
  • brraanndi
    brraanndi Posts: 325 Member
    Sweating only removes a trace amount of toxins and there is little to no evidence that sauna have any health benefits outside of making you feel good.

    For eliminating toxins, you want to focus on the health of your liver not your sauna time.

    ( No I'm not a doc, just a former medical assistant )

    And...oftentimes people pass drug tests after taking Niacin not because of the Niacin but because they simply don't understand that most drugs only stay in the system a few days.
  • PapaChanoli
    PapaChanoli Posts: 178 Member
    Yeah, the disclaimers are good. I've come to learn I'm a sweater.

    40oz per hour + during HRZ3 work at 60F is common for me. So I've gotten pretty aggressive with electrolytes. Good call mentioning those in your disclaimer.

    When I starts hitting the steam room I looked into electrolytes a little, mainly because I didn't want to pay for sugar water with potassium in it.

    I make a concentrated mix of what I decribed above, sometimes I add a little turmeric or other spices. There something like 4 or 5 out of the 8 electrolytes in it, and the power drink ads over play the need anyway.

    I like it and all the ingredients are good for you, so whether I need electrolytes or not it makes water drinking a little less boring.

    I derived it from google queries for things like "natural electrolytes." Or "electrolyte drink recipes"
  • v70t5m
    v70t5m Posts: 186 Member
    If toxins do move into the blood stream, but you are at a caorie deficit and storing less fat than you're burning, why would the toxins redistribute into your fat cells instead of just being eliminated naturally with the other waste products your cells are producing, whether it be through sweat, urine, etc?

    The chemical characteristics which give these molecules fat solubility generally translates to "I don't like water" (hydrophobic).

    Cell waste is dumped into the blood stream, and carried throughout the entire body. Granted, both the kidneys and liver filter the blood, but the first opportunity fat soluble chemicals have to "jump" from the hydrophillic environment of the cardiovascular system, I suspect they will. (Not to mention that the liver may not be able to change the chemical in question and the kidneys may not recognize the chemical in question.)

    As such, I think redistribution into the remaining cells is more likely than excretion. Unless all the fat cells carry the highest concentration possible of the given fat soluble chemical (vitamin/toxin/etc).

    This is one reason why bioaccumulation of fat soluble toxins is so dangerous and deadly. Once you have 'em, it is very hard to get rid of 'em - therefore your "load" tends to rise over time, not fall.
  • PapaChanoli
    PapaChanoli Posts: 178 Member
    If toxins do move into the blood stream, but you are at a caorie deficit and storing less fat than you're burning, why would the toxins redistribute into your fat cells instead of just being eliminated naturally with the other waste products your cells are producing, whether it be through sweat, urine, etc?

    The chemical characteristics which give these molecules fat solubility generally translates to "I don't like water" (hydrophobic).

    Cell waste is dumped into the blood stream, and carried throughout the entire body. Granted, both the kidneys and liver filter the blood, but the first opportunity fat soluble chemicals have to "jump" from the hydrophillic environment of the cardiovascular system, I suspect they will. (Not to mention that the liver may not be able to change the chemical in question and the kidneys may not recognize the chemical in question.)

    As such, I think redistribution into the remaining cells is more likely than excretion. Unless all the fat cells carry the highest concentration possible of the given fat soluble chemical (vitamin/toxin/etc).

    This is one reason why bioaccumulation of fat soluble toxins is so dangerous and deadly. Once you have 'em, it is very hard to get rid of 'em - therefore your "load" tends to rise over time, not fall.

    Very interesting. Thank you.

    Given that, would you see any reason to lend credibity to the idea of those toxins being eliminated to any significant degree through sweating or the GI tract as the article claims?
  • cnlargent
    cnlargent Posts: 199 Member
    Joseph Mercola helped my brother tremendously in the 90s with his Autism, however, the majority of what the dude suggests is flipping rubbish.
  • PapaChanoli
    PapaChanoli Posts: 178 Member
    Joseph Mercola helped my brother tremendously in the 90s with his Autism, however, the majority of what the dude suggests is flipping rubbish.

    That's actually why I brought the topic here. Even a complete psycho can get it right on occasion.
  • civilizedworm
    civilizedworm Posts: 796 Member
    That's actually why I brought the topic here. Even a complete psycho can get it right on occasion.
    And Hilter was good to his dog too.

    (I apologize in advance for the Godwin.)
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    Dr. Simoncini claims that all cancer is due to a fungus. Actually, he claims that cancer is a fungus. Not just some cancers. All cancer. What, you may ask, is his reasoning? Well, fungus is white, and cancer is white; so that means that cancer is really a fungus.

    So logically? If she weighs as much as a duck, she's made of wood. And therefore......
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    The "real" Russian sauna also involves beating each other with birch twigs and copious amounts of vodka. Anybody want to fund me for a long-term study on the positive effects, because I'm down.

    Do I have to roll in the snow after?

    The hot and cold treatments (such as saunas and then diving into freezing water or into snow) are very invigorating, and cause the body to release norepinephrine and endorphins. It has a historic use in treatment of mental disorders.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/51610/physical-medicine-depression-ndnr-april-2011-bongiorno.pdf
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    Joseph Mercola helped my brother tremendously in the 90s with his Autism, however, the majority of what the dude suggests is flipping rubbish.

    We all wish he had just stuck to treating Autism. But he had to venture off into being a Dr. of woo. Strange man.

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