Are you weak without meat??
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It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Woah. I'm a meat-and-cheese eater.... But, disordered eating? It just seems like a difference in lifestyle to me.0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Woah. I'm a meat-and-cheese eater.... But, disordered eating? It just seems like a difference in lifestyle to me.
I guess I have a strong reaction because I am involved in the dog fancy and am a big working horse supporter. Right now both groups are under attack by animal rights extremists, many/most of whom are vegan. The amount of disordered thinking that comes out of that group is alarming, in terms of food (orthorexia), relationships with animals (all human/animal relationships are abusive), and relationships with people, including themselves (all humans are a blight and the world would be a better place without them). So . . . yeah.0 -
I spent about 3 months transitioning to vegetarian between Sept and Dec 2013 rather than going cold turkey, because I wanted to learn how to do it correctly and for the change to "stick". I have been meat-free for 7 months now and feel great. Cut out eggs recently with no ill effects and am planning to transition out dairy one product at a time.
I lift weights, run, racewalk, hike, etc. and don't feel weak. I feel better than I've felt in my life and have had numerous comments on my weight loss that run along the lines of "Wow, you look great! I can tell you must be doing a lot of healthy things and losing weight the right way because you just glow with energy, you look strong and fit, your skin and hair look so great, etc. " I had labwork done at my routine checkup last month and everything was great. Cholesterol was perfect after having been a litle bit high for years, plus my blood pressure around 110/65 after a few years running in the 130s/90s range. My doctor was thrilled. Now, is this all about cutting out meat? Probably not--it is a combo of things happening at the same time (better diet in general, weight loss, exercise).
I don't want to get into arguments about vegetarianism, it's a personal choice and for me, an ethical choice to reduce the exploitation of animals. Can I fix all the pain in the world and live completely cruelty-free to every living thing? No, of course not. But I can do my part to address the things I am able to address. And I can choose to make this ethical choice bc unlike the tiger, (1) I'm not a carnivore, but much more adaptable omnivore, (2) The tiger is trying to survive in the wild under difficult conditions... but I have a credit card and am less than a mile from Whole Foods! and (3) I have much more capacity to make reflective, moral choices about my diet than the lions, tigers, and bears (Oh my)
If you are having ill effects from the change, you might want to consider taking it slow and really learning a new way to eat. You can't just cut out meat, you need to eat a healthy, diverse, well-balanced diet. Make sure you are eating the right amount of calories because sometimes veg*ns drop meat and and end up in a caloric deficit that is much larger than usual, even though they are getting enough protein (because the drop in fat and protein content of their food lowers the calories even though they are still at good levels of those macronutrients). Especially watch your protein and iron intake and consider a B12 supplement if you aren't eating plenty of eggs and dairy. If you add any new foods into your diet as you phase out meat, make sure you aren't allergic or having reactions to them specifically (some people are sensitive to soy and nuts, for example).
ANY dietary change can lead to a shock to the system that takes a few days to adjust to. I did Atkins about 10 years ago and WOW was that a miserable detox from all the carbs I was eating. I rode it out and felt better after (had good success on this diet in the short term, but long term it wasn't a good fit for the way I like to eat). Cutting out caffeine and increasing your fiber intake have also been known to produce some unpleasant side effects. That doesn't mean these dietary changes are bad for you, it just takes time to adjust. I didn't have any type of detox experience with meat, but I cut it out slowly so that might be why. SO... if you are getting enough calories and nutrients and all seems to be well, I'd advise to just stick with it for a week or two and see if you don't rebound. Your body might just be reeling from the change and need to adjust a bit.0 -
no0
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I went from vegetarian to vegan 4 years ago and feel great. I do a lot of running and don't find that it hinders my
ability to complete long distance runs or any other activities. You really can get all the protein you need with a plant
based diet, but it is really up to each individual to determine what works for them. Personally just the thought of eating meat
would make me sick to my stomach. There are also many negative health affects to consuming it. I suppose it depends
on how committed you are/were to this lifestyle and what research you are/were prepared to do in order to feel satisfied
with your alternative food choices.0 -
To those on here who want to make diet decisions based on science and on the collective wisdom of experts in the field of dietetics (rather than on ugly stereotypes you have of vegans or the "bro science" that often shows up on these kinds of threads), here is the ADA's position statement on veg*n diets. It is quite clear in claiming these diets are quite safe and healthy for people all ages, that it is associated with a wide range of positive health outcomes, and provides very useful information on how to switch to a veg*n diet in a way that is nutritionally well-planned: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf0
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I have been vegan for over a year and feel better/stronger than ever. If you eat well, you will feel well.0
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To those on here who want to make diet decisions based on science and on the collective wisdom of experts in the field of dietetics (rather than on ugly stereotypes you have of vegans or the "bro science" that often shows up on these kinds of threads), here is the ADA's position statement on veg*n diets. It is quite clear in claiming these diets are quite safe and healthy for people all ages, that it is associated with a wide range of positive health outcomes, and provides very useful information on how to switch to a veg*n diet in a way that is nutritionally well-planned: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf
*meh* It's all the same to me. My "stereotypes" come from over a decade of experiences with people who want to tell me what an animal abuser I am and that, if I really and truly loved animals I would not eat them. I've spent the vast majority of my life caring for animals in one capacity or another and I won't have anyone tell me that I don't care about the creatures I've spent years caring for just because they have control issues that non-meat eating happens to fill. I've never said (here) that people can't live healthy lives not eating meat, but I don't believe that it's a mentally healthy practice. Still, that's my opinion, based on my own experiences.
Before I block you, what is up with this "veg*n" nonsense? Is it like the "womyn" nonsense of a while back?0 -
I am done with the meat. In fact, as of this week, I'm no longer pescaterian. I'm going to eat as a ovo-lacto vegetarian. I just don't think meat is for me, and yes, I also watched a video that showed how animals are slaughtered. It made me feel bad, and it grossed me out a bit. From that day forward, I told myself that I'd rid my diet of all meat slowly. I ate only fish for a few months, and learned that I only REALLY like fish when it's fried. :laugh:
Also, I'm just ready to stop eating animals. One day I MAY become vegan, but I love my dairy. I will NEVER rudely call someone an animal killer, simply because they are eating meat. I have meat eaters in my own family, and who am I to judge? The way someone chooses to live or eat, should never cause a debate, because it's THEIR CHOICE. Being a vegetarian will not stop animals from being slaughtered, and it won't stop people from enjoying meat. I just don't want their flesh in my system any longer. Also, I'm looking to improve my PCOS.0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Woah. I'm a meat-and-cheese eater.... But, disordered eating? It just seems like a difference in lifestyle to me.
I guess I have a strong reaction because I am involved in the dog fancy and am a big working horse supporter. Right now both groups are under attack by animal rights extremists, many/most of whom are vegan. The amount of disordered thinking that comes out of that group is alarming, in terms of food (orthorexia), relationships with animals (all human/animal relationships are abusive), and relationships with people, including themselves (all humans are a blight and the world would be a better place without them). So . . . yeah.
Ah, I see then how you could have that reaction. There's extremists at every angle and on every side. I know a couple of (to my knowledge) normal vegans. But unfortunately it sounds like you have met some nutcases.0 -
To those on here who want to make diet decisions based on science and on the collective wisdom of experts in the field of dietetics (rather than on ugly stereotypes you have of vegans or the "bro science" that often shows up on these kinds of threads), here is the ADA's position statement on veg*n diets. It is quite clear in claiming these diets are quite safe and healthy for people all ages, that it is associated with a wide range of positive health outcomes, and provides very useful information on how to switch to a veg*n diet in a way that is nutritionally well-planned: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf
*meh* It's all the same to me. My "stereotypes" come from over a decade of experiences with people who want to tell me what an animal abuser I am and that, if I really and truly loved animals I would not eat them. I've spent the vast majority of my life caring for animals in one capacity or another and I won't have anyone tell me that I don't care about the creatures I've spent years caring for just because they have control issues that non-meat eating happens to fill. I've never said (here) that people can't live healthy lives not eating meat, but I don't believe that it's a mentally healthy practice. Still, that's my opinion, based on my own experiences.
Before I block you, what is up with this "veg*n" nonsense? Is it like the "womyn" nonsense of a while back?
No, veg*n is a term that is shorthand for "vegans and vegetarians". Like an abbreviation (the star takes the place of the letters in vegan and vegetarian that differ).
I loved animals for 41 years while eating them, so I get it and believe you are sincere of your love for them. I just changed my viewpoint over time, as people do. But I'm happy to let others find their own path.
And yeah, you had some run-ins with some obnoxious and judgmental folks. I know they exist and I find them annoying too. I also have been similarly abused by meat-eaters. But I'm not running around calling all meat eaters mentally unbalanced and stereotyping a whole group of people. You know very little about me and and have decided I am mentally unhealthy and unfit to be read by you on this board based on what? One fact of my diet. Did I yell at you, insult you or people like you, act like a raving lunatic. Um... no. So how are you being any better or different from the people you claim to have issues with? I'm just hearing one "my way is the only right way and I don't like you if you disagree" person (you) complaining about a bunch of other people cut from the same cloth. Definitely not a silk or wool cloth. But still the same cloth.
Oh well, your loss. I wish you well in life.0 -
kthnxbai.0
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OP, check out veganbodybuilding.com and the no meat athlete blog, you may find them encouraging. There are a host of excellent reasons to limit or cut out meat. Better for the environment, better for your health, better for the animals.
Good luck! 0 -
Thank you all for the input. I totally agree with starting it slowly to allow my body to adjust. Maybe going vegetarian at least 2 times a week will help my body to adjust---and then gradually go into pescetarianism---and then being a vegetarian. That's how I think it will work for me anyway. I tend to go cold turkey on a lot of things, like sugary drinks, and I'm fine without it. But giving up meat will certainly be a challenge. I'll do more research about food options (I have veggie burgers in the fridge and I HATE IT, I love tofu though). I appreciate all of you guys for taking the time to respond. *cheers* :drinker:0
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Store-bought veggie burgers are kind of junk -- and people with gluten problems can't eat them. If you haven't already, check out my post above re: how to get enough protein without meat. I had exactly the same problem you do. You feel like you are starving to death without meat because you probably are. You have to learn the right way to eat vegetable protein and replace other nutrients like B12 that vegetables don't provide. Once you get that part right -- the transition is nothing. In fact, meat sort of become sickening.0
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do NOT lump me in with PETA- philes because I DETEST PETA and all those other so-called "animal rights" groups! They believe people should not own nor breed animals! Their mission is to exterminate all domesticatsd species into extinction! They are the #1 enemy of pets and pet owners!0
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No you are not weak without meat. Ask this guy http://www.greatveganathletes.com/vegan_athlete_patrik-baboumian-vegan-strongman0
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It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Vegan diet an eating disorder? Wow that has to be a joke0
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