Are you weak without meat??
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I do eat fish once a week (to get natural omegas) but no meat. For protein I also eat seeds and beans, for fat I eat nuts. I eat a ton of vegetables and salad. I eat some fruit (berry type fruit). I eat oatmeal and healthy carbs like quinoa (also has protein). And guess what look up vegetables, they have protein too although everyone always acts like they do not and no one believes me when I state this.
With this type of diet its important to take B12 and Omega 3.
And I feel better than I ever remember feeling in my life, I feel wonderful.
And I have found super yummy recipies for these ingredients, I wish I had made this change a long time ago.
PS. Elephants do not eat meat, look how big they get.0 -
Yes, because the goal of any human diet is to look like an elephant. Strong logicI do eat fish once a week (to get natural omegas) but no meat. For protein I also eat seeds and beans, for fat I eat nuts. I eat a ton of vegetables and salad. I eat some fruit (berry type fruit). I eat oatmeal and healthy carbs like quinoa (also has protein). And guess what look up vegetables, they have protein too although everyone always acts like they do not and no one believes me when I state this.
With this type of diet its important to take B12 and Omega 3.
And I feel better than I ever remember feeling in my life, I feel wonderful.
And I have found super yummy recipies for these ingredients, I wish I had made this change a long time ago.
PS. Elephants do not eat meat, look how big they get.0 -
I havnt eaten meat in 25 years. It's not hard. there are plenty of vegetarian references and resources. MFP has a vegetarian-MFP group, too.0
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Yes, because the goal of any human diet is to look like an elephant. Strong logic
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I didn't really think this required further explanation but I guess I'm wrong. I was showing that you don't need meat to grow. I am done responding to this portion of the thread.0 -
I trust that all you vegans don't go around sporting iphones and nike shoes, because humans are getting exploited much worse to make these products than a cow getting milked is exploited.0
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I have been a vegetarian for just over 2 years now. I don't find that I am weaker than people who do eat meat (not that I consider myself very strong, but if I did eat meat, I don't think it would make much of a difference). I'm not sure how much protein I eat on a daily basis, but I eat chickpeas, hummus, almonds, and peanut butter like it's my job.0
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I don't eat meat, I haven't for 3 years now (just had my 3rd yr anniversary the beginning of July), I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, however I have replaced cows milk with almond milk, but will still have up to 2 eggs/day (for protein, normally 1 for breakfast and 1 for lunch), and I will still have the occasional cheese with my meal. Reason for me switching, I wasn't always a big meat eater to start with, on occasionally having 3 - 4 servings of meat a week. Then one day while eating chicken for dinner I was chewing chewing chewing and couldn't swallow the chicken, I spit it out on my plate (gross I know), I asked my self "Why am I forcing myself to eat meat?" and haven't eaten meat since.
I never understood the comment from people "Oh, I can't not eat meat, I've tried it and I get too weak", simply because I've never gotten weak or even craved meat since I've stopped eating it. I am fairly active too, I run upwards of 40 - 60 km a week, I just have a hard boiled egg and a banana after a run and I'm good to go. I'm also an avid blood giver, I donate ever 2 months and very rarely ever get turned away for low iron (however I do cut my running down to 30k / week for the week I give blood, I do find myself a bit sluggish at that time, but got this way even 4 years ago when I did eat meat).
I have no current plans on going back to my old ways of eating meat. It really is a HUGE commitment to some and not a big deal to others (like myself). Everyone is different though, what ever keeps you going and keeps you strong is what is right for you. Good Luck.0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.0 -
I am sure a hungry predatory animal cares about your compassion and right to live and thrive.It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.
Doesn't look like you are worried much about HUMAN exploitation based on those fresh Nikes in your profile pic.0 -
I stopped eating meat two years ago and feel better than ever! I'm now on a veeeeeeeeeeery recent transition to veganism (several days ago) and felt a little rough for a day but I think that was my body reacting to a large amount of soy products in place of dairy but seems to be evening out already and the last two days I've been practically bouncing with energy, feel lighter and more alert. Couple of weeks ago, I had some bloods taken to rule out anemia -- turns out all my levels are absolutely perfect and apparently better than most meat eaters, turns out I was just severely run down from work. That being said, when I have minor periods of living off "junk" like chips, chocolate, etc, in vast quantities then yeah, I feel weak and sluggish but when I'm eating balanced meals/snacks with lots of fruits/veggies/etc with treats in moderation, I feel great.0
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It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.
Doesn't look like you are worried much about HUMAN exploitation based on those fresh Nikes in your profile pic.
Nice catch! It's true Nike is absolutely horrible. One of the worst of a horrible industry. But can you expect everyone to know everything? You could have made the world a better place by gently pointing that out.
Vegans need to be aware of human rights, too, and many are. One thing I'm beginning to understand is the vegan claim that how we treat animals influences how we treat each other. I was watching and enjoying a horse training documentary called Buck. Right up until a young brain damaged stallion was sent off to slaughter and Buck gave a speech about why. The horse was dangerous, it's true, I could see not keeping it, but Buck didn't talk about it in those terms. He talked about that horse as a brain damaged child that, with the right training, could have been a useful member of society. But the horse was never going to be useful now, so the horse had to be put down. I'm tired of people using other people in society, and maybe we did get that attitude partly from how we view animals.0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.
Doesn't look like you are worried much about HUMAN exploitation based on those fresh Nikes in your profile pic.
Nice catch! It's true Nike is absolutely horrible. One of the worst of a horrible industry. But can you expect everyone to know everything? You could have made the world a better place by gently pointing that out.
Vegans need to be aware of human rights, too, and many are. One thing I'm beginning to understand is the vegan claim that how we treat animals influences how we treat each other. I was watching and enjoying a horse training documentary called Buck. Right up until a young brain damaged stallion was sent off to slaughter and Buck gave a speech about why. The horse was dangerous, it's true, I could see not keeping it, but Buck didn't talk about it in those terms. He talked about that horse as a brain damaged child that, with the right training, could have been a useful member of society. But the horse was never going to be useful now, so the horse had to be put down. I'm tired of people using other people in society, and maybe we did get that attitude partly from how we view animals.
You are right, I could have said it more gently and I apologize for that. However, it really chaps my *kitten* when I hear vegans preaching from their soapbox about this topic meanwhile they have on their designer jeans while texting on their iphone which were both produced in sweat shops under borderline slave labor conditions. And yes, I realize not all vegans are this way, it is always the vocal ones.
Now if you'll excuse me, I think I am going to go enjoy a nice thick ribeye.
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Weak, no. But I would not be happy without meat. I can't imagine not eating steak, cheeseburgers, bacon, etc. I would not be happy. I would be sad.0
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It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.
Doesn't look like you are worried much about HUMAN exploitation based on those fresh Nikes in your profile pic.
Nice catch! It's true Nike is absolutely horrible. One of the worst of a horrible industry. But can you expect everyone to know everything? You could have made the world a better place by gently pointing that out.
Vegans need to be aware of human rights, too, and many are. One thing I'm beginning to understand is the vegan claim that how we treat animals influences how we treat each other. I was watching and enjoying a horse training documentary called Buck. Right up until a young brain damaged stallion was sent off to slaughter and Buck gave a speech about why. The horse was dangerous, it's true, I could see not keeping it, but Buck didn't talk about it in those terms. He talked about that horse as a brain damaged child that, with the right training, could have been a useful member of society. But the horse was never going to be useful now, so the horse had to be put down. I'm tired of people using other people in society, and maybe we did get that attitude partly from how we view animals.
You are right, I could have said it more gently and I apologize for that. However, it really chaps my *kitten* when I hear vegans preaching from their soapbox about this topic meanwhile they have on their designer jeans while texting on their iphone which were both produced in sweat shops under borderline slave labor conditions. And yes, I realize not all vegans are this way, it is always the vocal ones.
Now if you'll excuse me, I think I am going to go enjoy a nice thick ribeye.
Enjoy your ribeye, I'm not the captain of anyone's conscience except my own. Just remember, we should always be recruiting from anywhere and everywhere for human rights. There aren't nearly enough of us!0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Ummm.... those aren't Nikes.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.
Doesn't look like you are worried much about HUMAN exploitation based on those fresh Nikes in your profile pic.
Ummm.... those aren't Nikes.0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Ummm.... those aren't Nikes.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.
Doesn't look like you are worried much about HUMAN exploitation based on those fresh Nikes in your profile pic.
Ummm.... those aren't Nikes.
:laugh: Egad! New Balance! Some of which I believe are still made in USA. :blushing:0 -
It is totally easy for me to adhere to a vegan diet. The precious lives of nonhuman creatures are what matters to me, regardless of any health/nutrition concerns of a vegan diet. I refuse to sacrifice their lives for mine.
For a moment, I thought this was supposed to be sarcasm. But, based on post history, I can't help but think you're serious.
Ummm.... those aren't Nikes.
Yes . . . I can't see who you're quoting because I routinely block anyone who self-identifies as an ethical vegan, but s/he is no doubt sincere in what s/he is saying. So-called ethical veganism is fraught with misanthropy and self-hatred and placing animals over human beings. In my opinion so-called ethical veganism is no better than any other form of eating disorder and may actually be worse, since the more extreme of them try to prevent others from eating or even owning domestic animals (I've got no problem with people who adopt veganism for health or religious reasons, though.)
Go ahead and block me now but I find your assumptions silly. Ethical vegans aren't misanthropes, they don't hate themselves, they don't place animals over human beings, and abstaining from using animal product for food, clothing, cosmetics etc on an ethical basis in no way qualifies as an eating disorder. Contrary to your assessment, ethical vegans generally operate from a place of love and compassion, not hatred as you suggest. Ethical vegans cherish all sentient beings equally. It isn't about placing animals above humans (we are all animals, after all), but about recognizing that ALL creatures (humans, cows, pigs, dogs, cats, chickens, dolphins, elephants, etc.) are EQUALLY deserving of compassion and the right to not just live but thrive.
Doesn't look like you are worried much about HUMAN exploitation based on those fresh Nikes in your profile pic.
Ummm.... those aren't Nikes.
The point still stands. Am I to assume you don't own any diamonds, Nike material, cotton material, or anything gold? Because if you do, the probability that these goods were produced under slave, child, or forced labor is extremely high.0 -
I trust that all you vegans don't go around sporting iphones and nike shoes, because humans are getting exploited much worse to make these products than a cow getting milked is exploited.
Okay. Do YOU actually do that? Cut out those companies, cotton, diamonds, and gold... and the meat? Or do you just do neither and point fingers at those who are doing more than you because they aren't doing everything?
For what it's worth, I actually do try to make more ethical choices in my purchase of products. Buying local whenever possible, supporting small businesses, buying fair trade stuff, etc. I support work in Ghana that helps children leaving child slavery and plan to go there myself to help with the work next year. I do what I can, but I don't do everything it is true. A person can make themselves crazy trying to obsess about every little ingredient and wrong buying choice.The poster who was talking about veganism being unhealthy mentally is wrong, I think.... but I do think that once you actually start to care about these issues it opens a pandora's box. You realize how much of our economy--cheap food, cheap products at Wal-mart, etc.--is linked to the abuse and exploitation of both humans and animals around the globe. It's hard to escape and can make people with anxious or obsessive tendencies even more so unless you manage it well.
So I've tried to take it slow, to see at as a challenge to make a new good decision every week or so and to cut myself slack for not doing everything at once. Right now I'm working on cutting eggs out of my diet and realizing that egg is lurking in all sorts of products I use. That's all I can handle this week! I can't solve all the problems at once, or solve them by myself. That doesn't mean that am a hypocrite for saying that it is worthwhile to do SOMETHING. Yeah, I guess it would be hypocritical if I put myself out there as a model of perfection and better than everyone else... but who is doing that? Some obnoxious vocal people I suppose, but not most of the people I know. Not me.
Realize that if someone has a product you object to, maybe they don't know it is a problem and would be receptive to an explanation that treats them as a moral person who would really want to know this sort of thing and act on it. It has been my observation that vegans are sensitive to these issues even though animal welfare is the focus of their activism. Just like those fighting for gay rights might also care about sexism or racism and be an ally to those addressing those issues without losing focus on their personal mission.
Or maybe they do know, but have made that choice anyway for reasons that they really don't need to explain to you (unless they are in your face judging you about a specific decision you made, then I think it opens the door for that.... but not the random vegan you barely know). Maybe they are like me, doing all they can do RIGHT NOW, and are working toward more good choices? Maybe you are seeing them with products that were given to them or bought in the past before they changed their view. Like my pre-veg leather walking shoes (not Nike!). As my shoes wear out I'm replacing them with something other than leather but I don't see how I can benefit the animal that provided that leather by throwing it in the garbage. I make some use of it and then will replace it as the time comes.0 -
I trust that all you vegans don't go around sporting iphones and nike shoes, because humans are getting exploited much worse to make these products than a cow getting milked is exploited.
Okay. Do YOU actually do that? Cut out those companies, cotton, diamonds, and gold... and the meat? Or do you just do neither and point fingers at those who are doing more than you because they aren't doing everything?
No I don't any of that. I eat meat, I buy goods from companies with shady production policies because I don't care about killing animals for food or slave labor and other countries and I am not going to pretend that I do.
I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of certain vegans who preach their faux ethics or morals on others.0 -
I'm weak without meat because I do not eat enough outside sources of protein to supplement. I acknowledge this.
And I acknowledge that if I was more conscious about choosing more protein filled foods- I'd have less issues, when and if I was "meat-free".
But I personally really enjoy meat- and I eat it regularly- chicken, fish, cow.
Oh- and for you fish only people- fish is meat- let's not kid ourselves- you're NOT a vegetarian- you're a pescatarian.
Secondly: I have no issue with ethical veggy/vegan folks, makes total sense to me- I don't agree with it- but I understand the motivation/drive to pursue that life style.
I take more issue with the ones that think it's substantially healthier. Because it's not.0 -
I haven't read any other responses but no, I don't feel any weaker without meat. I make sure that I have the right vitamin supplements to make up for the B-12, Iron and Vitamin D. My protein levels are just about the same as they were with meat, so I am not sure where the weakness would come from other than a vitamin deficiency, which is easy to fix.0
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Well, this gets derailed every time.
There's plenty of reasons to eat or not whatever. You don't like the colour pink? Don't eat beets. Eating fresh shrimp inflicts pangs of regret on your belief in Dagon? Don't. And so on.
Plenty of successful vegan athletes out there... if you find the idea of eating meat so repulsive, there's many ways to go around it.0 -
I have a lot more energy and feel tons better since becoming vegan.
I felt sluggish and gross physically when I ate meat.0 -
I wouldn't say that I'm "weak" without meat. But I would probably be irritable if I didn't have any.0
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It really hurts my feelings when I see how animals are being slaughtered for us to eat. SO after seeing a video/documentary, etc I wouldn't eat meat for a few days.. But after that, I'm back to eating it again. I feel like my body needs meat b/c I feel really weak if I had not eaten meat after a couple of days. I tried the beans and tofu thing for protein but I couldn't do it in the long run. Any thoughts on this guys? To vegetarians/vegans out there, how do you guys do it??
So you resolve to not eat industrial meat, so you stop altogether, then your resolve weakens so you go back to industrial meat.
Have you ever imagined a system where there *might* be something different from industrial meat supply? Or is it just some pseudo empathy thing, which is why there isn't commitment?
There are a lot of easy and inexpensive options to step out of the industrial food system, even in the most hell blasted urban areas like Boston. You should look into it, if the ethics of your food concern you.0 -
I personally believe that God created animals for us to consume. So that is where my point of view is coming from. With that said....
From what I understand, the more sucessfull vegatarians/vegans have done a lot of research and collected enough knowledge and are truly dedicated.
I would say that you cannot just wing it or treat it like a fad diet (being a vegan) and expect to be sucessful. As many already noted, you have to know how to get complete protein sources, understand that you have to consume a lot of it and still stay within your calorie limit range. You limited yourself out of an entire food group or two. So you have to be real creative on how you prepare what food sources are left and keep it tasty and interesting. You have to be willing to try and like new things.
I personally vomit at the thought of tofu. I tried it many times with little sucess. I am peronally happy being a meat eater. Good luck to the rest of you on however you decide to eat.0 -
Vegetarian here - have been for over 25 years! I doubt I would be considered weak considering I hold a couple of National and State Powerlifting records.0
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I trust that all you vegans don't go around sporting iphones and nike shoes, because humans are getting exploited much worse to make these products than a cow getting milked is exploited.
Okay. Do YOU actually do that? Cut out those companies, cotton, diamonds, and gold... and the meat? Or do you just do neither and point fingers at those who are doing more than you because they aren't doing everything?
No I don't any of that. I eat meat, I buy goods from companies with shady production policies because I don't care about killing animals for food or slave labor and other countries and I am not going to pretend that I do.
I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of certain vegans who preach their faux ethics or morals on others.
I didn't see anyone preaching on this thread tho..0 -
It really hurts my feelings when I see how animals are being slaughtered for us to eat. SO after seeing a video/documentary, etc I wouldn't eat meat for a few days.. But after that, I'm back to eating it again. I feel like my body needs meat b/c I feel really weak if I had not eaten meat after a couple of days.(snip)
You don't need meat and a lack of meat won't make you feel weak. I just ran 3.5 miles yesterday and haven't eaten meat in two years. I'm okay. A vegetarian diet is healthy and you can get the nutrients you need without meat including iron and protein. Beans and tofu are good sources, (snip)
I hope this doesn't come across as condescending, but you are both "right".
So too are those on whichever side of the fence they find themselves on (based on their personal "beliefs") regarding the "morality" of (or of not) eating meat. There are few "certainties" in the diet world, but one of which I'm pretty confident is that I (or anyone else) is not likely to "convince" anyone that "my" point of view is correct and their's is wrong. As a result, I prefer to spend the time I save by not doing so focused on the "science" rather than the "ideology".
It's absolutely true that you "don't NEED meat..." - millions of people have existed for thousands of years never a morsel of meat having passed their lips.
It's equally true, however, that you DO need many of the nutritive components (including "fats" and each of the Omega 3 components ALA, EPA, and DHA. It's also true that "some" (maybe even "most") of the missing components CAN be found in alternative foods and while that's important and good to know, I personally couldn't care less that tofu can. For me, I'd rather eat cardboard, but it "works" for others and that's just fine.
The whole "fats" issue (as in USDA recommended Food Pyramid, "low fat" diets, and the CICO "theories") are ones that have gone largely unquestioned since being deemed "conventional wisdom" in the 1970's. Too often ignored, however, is the simple "fact" that since adoption and widespread acceptance, obesity, diabetes, cardio, and many other often "terminal" diseases have been on a dramatic and steady rise.
Direct "cause and effect" has yet to be "proven" - conclusively, although scientific documentation (by way of "clinical" studies) is getting closer to doing so day by day. Much of the "research" goes back many decades (including some back to the 1800's and early 1900's. Many would argue that much of it has been either simply "ignored", "dismissed out of hand", or intentionally "suppressed" by those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. That's a "political" and economic discussion for another day but one for which considerable support and "evidence" exists for those willing to invest the time to "uncover" it.
That the body "needs" specific nutrients though, is "science"- not ideology. It's the percentages of each that's in question, not the "fact" that they are needed.
IMO, if you are "substituting" carbs for meats (in an attempt to "replace" the missing nutrients) you are dealing yourself a deck that is NOT stacked in your favor. The human species existed for 10's of thousands of years on what your Grandma would have called a "balanced" diet that included foods from each of the "food groups" (which had yet to be defined as such). She (and indeed the entire "medical" and "dietary" communities) just "knew" that bread and potatoes "made you fat" and "processed" foods (when they came to exist), "just aren't healthy for you".
She limited (but probably didn't completely eliminate) your intake of the "bad" foods, tried her best to get you to "...eat your vegetables", and proudly proclaimed that she would never eat anything that contained "stuff I can't pronounce."
History has pretty much "proven" that Grandma "knew best" (and the politicians, current "experts", and mega "food" corps, DO NOT - or at least don't "care").
One need only be willing to examine the "results" of the "common wisdom", OR find an alternative (and scientifically documented) explanation for the disastrous "results" (in terms of obesity, disease, etc) produced by the "experiment" in low fat / high carb diets that has been forced on the public since the 1970's.
I'm not now, and never had "advocated" for any specific "diet" (especially any of the "fad diets"). I am though, beginning to seriously question what I've always been "led to believe" is the "best" (and most current) "conventional wisdom" when it comes to diet and nutrition. The more research and questioning I do though, the more I'm coming to believe that "low fat/high carb" diets (in the proportions dictated by the pyramid and blindly adopted by so many) are the PROBLEM and not the SOLUTION.
It is, of course, for each to "decide" on their own what is "best" for them. Doing so after having evaluating ALL the "evidence" is (IMO) the ONLY way one does themselves justice. "Myth", "dogma", anecdote, and conventional "wisdom" - don't quality as "evidence", "science" DOES.
"Diet" and "Nutrition" are (or at least IMO, should be), SCIENCE - NOT "ideology" or "religion".0
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