HOOOOW to make apple cider vinegar drinkable?

Please could you people who are touting the benefits of apple cider vinegar explain to me what it is about apple cider vinegar, compared to other vinegars such as red wine vinegar or malt vinegar, that has the health benefits? And also, if it's something specific to apples, then wouldn't apple juice have the same health benefit(s)?

Also, peer reviewed journal articles would be nice....

The active ingredient, acetic acid, is largely what provides most of the benefits, though raw AVC, like Bragg's also includes a number of probiotics, which have their own benefits. On the acetic acid front, though, it doesn't really much matter, as long as it has a sufficient concentration of acetic acid. In that aspect, white vinegar has the same benefits, though I'd argue that ACV tastes better, but that's just personal preference.

As for other vinegars, I'd suspect that the stock for making it may leave certain properties that could have different effects. Balsamic vinegar, for example, is made from grapes and is sweet. I suspect it therefore has more sugar in it. If that's the case, then the sugar may defeat the antiglycemic effects of the acetic acid (just a guess there, though).

Wikipedia has a good run down of the different types of vinegars and what they're made from -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar#Varieties

I know all about the various different vinegars for cooking purposes. I'm a connoisseur of vinegars (kidding - I'm not even that good at cooking... I just like the taste of vinegar and use various different ones). Which is why it doesn't make much sense that apple cider vinegar would have health benefits that the others don't

So if acetic/ethanoic acid is the active ingredient then any vinegar will do. So why not advise people to use malt vinegar, as it's much cheaper and easily obtained in any supermarket? And why tell people that they have to drink it - a strong acid - when they can consume it as part of a delicious salad dressing or something? (if 2 tablespoons are the required amount, you can add that to a tomato based sauce, or even add it to tuna mayonnaise, it'll give it a lot of zing and be a lot more pleasant to consume than drinking it. Also, vindaloo is a delicious curry dish that is made with vinegar... why not have a vindaloo? If someone is diabetic and wants to reduce carbs, serve it with only a small portion of rice, and you can make it not so spicy (eating more sauce and less rice will make the spiciness seem a lot stronger so I'd recommend that).)

So again, this idea that you have to buy apple cider vinegar - which is a more delicate vinegar for finer cooking and way more expensive than malt vinegar, which is your basic all purpose vinegar for putting on your fish n chips (yes I'm British so I mean French fries) and is much cheaper and on sale pretty much everywere..... and then you have companies selling you special apple cider vinegar as a health food product, so likely to be that much more expensive than the apple cider vinegar you get in supermarkets for people to use in cooking......... and you're saying that the active ingredient is acetic/ethanoic acid...... well that just smacks of quackery.... if there's truth in it, then use malt vinegar.

I'd venture to guess it has to do with prices and where a lot of the information originated from. Here in the US, ACV is cheaper than malt. I can buy both White/Distilled Vinegar and ACV by the gallon for pretty much the same price -- usually about $7-$8 for the gallon for the "conventional" pasteurized stuff (Bragg's is more expensive, most likely to do with riding the "organic" wave). Other vinegars, though, particularly malt and balsamic, are $7-$8 per pint (and for what it's worth -- here in the US, at least the midwest, putting on fries is largely the only purpose malt vinegar has, most other basic cooking recipes use white vinegar).

Additionally, it's said that Hippocrates used ACV, which may also contribute to the recommendations of it over other vinegars. Sort of a "we know this works, so we'll recommend it until we find out the details of why and find other things that share its properties" kind of thing.

I'd say the problem with putting it in a dish vs drinking it straight or in a carrier liquid is that you don't usually consume all of the dish in which you're using it, unless you're making a single serving (and even if you are, if it maintains it's appetite suppressing effects, then you're not likely to eat the whole dish), which means you'd consume considerably less than the tablespoon or two recommended "dose."

That said, to my knowledge, it does work when used as a salad dressing. If you're consuming it for the appetite suppressing effects, though, you'd probably have to make sure to eat the salad first, but it does indicate that, assuming you can ensure you get a sufficient amount, the mode of consumption doesn't matter as much as some may believe.

The studies that have been done do the "mix with carrier liquid and consume before meal" method. So, I'd say that if you're going to take something that's rather controversial or somewhat unknown, you'd follow the knowns that are there. In this case, the method the studies use.

It seems to me, too, that another part is simply societal norms. Why is yogurt held as the probiotic food? It's not even that great of a probiotic, with several others running circles around it. Because societal norms have made it that way. That's slowly changing now, with the rise in popularity of kefir, kombucha, and artisan fermented foods and drinks, but that's a slow process. I think the same can be said of ACV vs other vinegars for the health benefits, at least in part.

Also, what you wrote seems to be your opinion, or the sales pitch of companies selling apple cider vinegar. Again, without peer reviewed journal articles, how do I separate facts from your opinions or the sales pitch of people selling the stuff?

I'm not really sure where I made any kind of sales pitch, and I thought I made it pretty clear what parts where opinion and what parts were fact, particularly with the health claims. If you feel otherwise, please feel free to point them out.

I mentioned Bragg's, specifically, because it's the only brand I know of that sells unpasteurized ACV with the mother, and it's the one most people seem to be aware of. It doesn't really matter, though, whether it's actually theirs. If it's unpasteurized, then it has similar properties to any other fermented food -- probiotics from the bacteria that did the fermenting (pasteurization, by nature, kills off the bacteria, of course). If you wanted, you could make it yourself and get the same benefits as buying it from the store.

I linked several studies and aggregating articles that, at the very least, demonstrate the viability of acetic acid for various health-related purposes.

This one, for example, was with 4 randomized, cross-over trials, and showed that apple cider vinegar reduced post-meal glucose by 20% compared to placebo -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20068289

The big thing I don't like is that most of the studies I've linked throughout this thread are admittedly small. However, there are multiple studies that all show the same results, indicating that it holds up to repeatability. Study size is, unfortunately, subject to funding, and few people who have the money to fund such studies aren't inclined to actually do so unless it can result in them making money, but then, if the companies that make vinegar were to fund such a study, then it would be accused of bias and conflict of interest, so it's a bit of a catch-22 and we're stuck with what people can and are willing to fund.

They made Jesus drink vinegar.

And he said F this I am making wine....SMH.....just eat vinegar on salads, or cook with it.

One tablespoon of Bragg's ACV (organic, raw, unfiltered with the mother) is a good source of potassium and probiotics with zero calories. It does have a smoother taste than pasteurized ACV. I know some here will argue against the benefits of potassium and probiotics but for those of us who know the benefits, Bragg's ACV is a good choice. You could easily make your own ACV using the mother from Bragg's as the starter. I don't find the price of Bragg's prohibitive but some may.

Of course it has "antimicrobial effects" it's a mild acid. That's why it's used as a househould cleaner. You planning on drinking your windex too? Silly argument - but people believe what they want to believe and most will only source links that back up what they want to believe.

Now "eye of newt" now there's a weight loss diamond!

cheers

Do you avoid fat, too? Fats are acids, too. In fact, they're half of the soap equation, and soap is a household (and body) cleaner. In fact, real soap like that is technically a salt! Should you avoid table salt, then, too?

Also, your comparison to Windex is essentially like comparing ethyl alcohol with methyl alcohol, and saying that, while both can be used as disinfectants, because one is toxic to the body, you shouldn't drink the other.

Your argument is not only silly, but downright absurd and fallacious. There are thousands of compounds that are both entirely edible and can be used for other purposes, including cleaning and medical purposes. The two sets of uses aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I agree - the argument is silly. But - my argument is not fallacious it's satirical - I'm sorry you missed the difference. And I never said I avoid Apple cider vinegar it makes a nice salad dressing - I just think it's silly to pick one form of acetic acid and ascribe health benefits to it.

But as I said earlier - people will believe what they wish to believe - in spite of empirical evidence - because people wish to believe in a miracles, and b. that they can do something other than watch their food intake and exercise in order to lose weight.

The beauty of open forums is discussion - which is what this is. So discuss on..............

Okay... so I actually lost interest in this thread when I realized that it was a zombie, but I actually learned a lot popping back here.

I didn't know acetic acid had any impact on insulin. Good to know. But like neander said, any vinegar should have the same impact. I am left with just one question. Would cooking the vinegar detrimentally effect the benefit of insulin?

Because that is the only way I can justify in my mind drinking it raw, and to the best of my knowledge, apple cider vinegar is chosen for drinking because it is more palatable than other vinegars. Also, I don't get the claim that this stuff helps with heartburn and reflux. I admit that I drank the Kool-Aid about ACV, so to speak, for awhile before abandoning it BECAUSE I would get terrible heartburn after. As an acid, I would think it would only make the hydrochloric acid in your stomach worse. Also, I heard that the acid can burn the lining of the esophagus.

Why can't using vinegar in cooking provide the same insulinogenic effect? Especially, when drinking it raw could be potentially more harmful than helpful.

There haven't been any studies (not even self-experimentations that I've seen) regarding actually cooking with it. Like I said to neaderthin, the most obvious issue is not getting enough if you're cooking with it. I did think of another issue, though -- do the relevant compounds cook off in some kinds of cooking? If so, which ones retain most of the compounds in question? That I don't know and haven't seen anything on. Like I also mentioned, I think that's why it's usually recommended to drink it -- it follows the knowns -- what's been studied, what Hippocrates recommended in his time, and how to get a known amount of vinegar.

As for the heartburn -- there's some evidence/theories that if heartburn has anything to do with the amount of stomach acid, it's actually that there's too little stomach acid. I don't know how much it's been studied, though.

Here's some food for thought, though -- if you have heartburn to the point that you go to the doctor and get a prescription, the doctor prescribes an antacid, doesn't s/he? Yet, no tests are run to see if you actually produce too much stomach acid.

What causes heartburn? Pretty much everyone will agree that the cause of heartburn is stomach acid getting into the esophagus, where it causes a chemical burn, because the esophagus isn't equipped to handle the acid content of the stomach.

The question is, though, what causes the acid to get there in the first place? This is where there's some controversy, it seems. It probably doesn't help that the answer to that question varies from person to person, depending on the circumstances.

Here are a few theories on it:

http://www.tahomaclinicblog.com/what-really-causes-heartburn/
http://digestivehealthinstitute.org/2014/07/08/what-really-causes-acid-reflux-gerd/
http://drlarsen.com/is-heartburn-really-due-to-too-much-acid/

The common theme here? Regardless of the actual cause, odds are, too much acid isn't one of them. One of the theories actually mentions that one of the issues may be that the pH of your stomach may be too basic. Why does it burn, then, if it's basic? Because bases burn as much as acids. Google "lye burn" and you'll understand very quickly (WARNING: that Google search, especially on the images, is not for the faint of heart. Lye is nasty stuff and the results are gnarly). In these cases, at least, that means that adding an acidic compound, such as vinegar, would increase the acidity, bringing it back into a more proper balance.

I wish I could better explain this, because it really does work. I actually made a believer out of my husband. Like you, he found it counterintuitive and didn't believe me at first. He's a frequent heartburn sufferer and eats Tums like candy sometimes. One time, he had a particularly bad bout of heartburn that no amount of Tums would touch. After a sleepless night or two, with no end in sight, I finally managed to talk him into trying some vinegar for it. I mixed about a tablespoon or two into an 8oz glass of water (which he watered down further after the first couple of swigs). He's got a touchy gag reflex, so he didn't drink it all, but he managed to get it down, and after drinking about half of it, his heartburn was all but gone entirely.

4 pages and no one mentioned good girl moonshine?

Do I have the recipe wrong?

http://www.trimhealthymama.com/main-home/free-recipes/good-girl-moonshine-recipe/

@ Dragonwolf

- i'm neandermagnon :drinker: - neanderthin is another user on this site, although I've not seen him around for a while

- I didn't think you were making a sales pitch - what I meant was that some of what you were saying, i.e. without the links to actual scientific studies, sounded like you were repeating the sales pitch of health companies that sell it. It was just a comment to illustrate that without the links to the articles

- that's interesting that cider vinegar's so cheap in the USA. I feel cheated now lol... in the UK malt vinegar is extremely cheap, back in the day (not lived there for a few years now) it was like 37p for a large bottle of it. Cider vinegar you'd have to go to the culinary isle of the supermarket and pay much more (can't remember how much it would cost). I think if people are going to discuss health benefits, I think they should just say "vinegar" then people are going to buy whatever vinegar is cheapest or whatever vinegar they like the best or which best fits the kind of food they want to cook. It's also worrying that people feel obliged to actually drink vinegar rather than just using more of it in their cooking/salad dressings. I mean if you like to drink vinegar that's fine but most people don't.

- the studies show a possible effect - the number of participants was pretty low, but I do think it at least warrants further study, and for people who have a family history of diabetes, diabetes or pre-diabetes, using more vinegar in cooking probably can't hurt and may have a small benefit - what I object to is the hard sales pitch by some alternative medicine peddlars that involves exaggerated claims and tagging on unproven benefits to the (possible) benefits that some studies have shown, plus convincing people to buy expensive vinegars of a particular specified kind, when the cheapest one in your local supermarket or whichever one fits best with your style of cooking is going to give you the same (possible) benefits.

Sorry, I only know how to make it edible.

(mouth watering)

Don't drink it. Those health benefits are HIGHLY overrated.

If you insist on it, take it with a chaser of your favorite intensely flavorful beverage.

Actually that is incorrect. Drinking apple cider vinegar before a meal reduces the insulin spike that results from eating.

How is that even possible? Apple cider vinegar is just fermented apple juice. A lot of the sugar is removed, but that doesn't mean that there isn't still sugar present.

There have been countless studies on this and the results are lower blood sugar levels.

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/contact-us/2475-&action=1
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/06/02/apple-cider-vinegar-hype.aspx
http://simpledailychange.com/apple-cider-vinegar-for-insulin-sensitivity/
http://www.thealternativedaily.com/multiple-studies-you-can-control-blood-sugar-with-apple-cider-vinegar/
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-816-APPLE CIDER VINEGAR.aspx?activeIngredientId=816&activeIngredientName=APPLE CIDER VINEGAR

These aren't even studies. Just garbage pulled from a quick google search.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

tagged for later when I have open internet