HOOOOW to make apple cider vinegar drinkable?

4 pages and no one mentioned good girl moonshine?

Do I have the recipe wrong?

http://www.trimhealthymama.com/main-home/free-recipes/good-girl-moonshine-recipe/

@ Dragonwolf

- i'm neandermagnon :drinker: - neanderthin is another user on this site, although I've not seen him around for a while

- I didn't think you were making a sales pitch - what I meant was that some of what you were saying, i.e. without the links to actual scientific studies, sounded like you were repeating the sales pitch of health companies that sell it. It was just a comment to illustrate that without the links to the articles

- that's interesting that cider vinegar's so cheap in the USA. I feel cheated now lol... in the UK malt vinegar is extremely cheap, back in the day (not lived there for a few years now) it was like 37p for a large bottle of it. Cider vinegar you'd have to go to the culinary isle of the supermarket and pay much more (can't remember how much it would cost). I think if people are going to discuss health benefits, I think they should just say "vinegar" then people are going to buy whatever vinegar is cheapest or whatever vinegar they like the best or which best fits the kind of food they want to cook. It's also worrying that people feel obliged to actually drink vinegar rather than just using more of it in their cooking/salad dressings. I mean if you like to drink vinegar that's fine but most people don't.

- the studies show a possible effect - the number of participants was pretty low, but I do think it at least warrants further study, and for people who have a family history of diabetes, diabetes or pre-diabetes, using more vinegar in cooking probably can't hurt and may have a small benefit - what I object to is the hard sales pitch by some alternative medicine peddlars that involves exaggerated claims and tagging on unproven benefits to the (possible) benefits that some studies have shown, plus convincing people to buy expensive vinegars of a particular specified kind, when the cheapest one in your local supermarket or whichever one fits best with your style of cooking is going to give you the same (possible) benefits.

Sorry, I only know how to make it edible.

(mouth watering)

Don't drink it. Those health benefits are HIGHLY overrated.

If you insist on it, take it with a chaser of your favorite intensely flavorful beverage.

Actually that is incorrect. Drinking apple cider vinegar before a meal reduces the insulin spike that results from eating.

How is that even possible? Apple cider vinegar is just fermented apple juice. A lot of the sugar is removed, but that doesn't mean that there isn't still sugar present.

There have been countless studies on this and the results are lower blood sugar levels.

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/contact-us/2475-&action=1
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/06/02/apple-cider-vinegar-hype.aspx
http://simpledailychange.com/apple-cider-vinegar-for-insulin-sensitivity/
http://www.thealternativedaily.com/multiple-studies-you-can-control-blood-sugar-with-apple-cider-vinegar/
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-816-APPLE CIDER VINEGAR.aspx?activeIngredientId=816&activeIngredientName=APPLE CIDER VINEGAR

These aren't even studies. Just garbage pulled from a quick google search.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

tagged for later when I have open internet

Can someone please explain to me how allowing fresh squeezed apple juice to spoil gives it all of these miracle health benefits that you don't get by eating an apple?

a couple of the studies posted by dragonwolf showed a possible health benefit from acetic/ethanoic acid - which is not present in fresh apple juice. The number of participants in the studies were small though, and the studies only looked at acetic/ethanoic acid, i.e. if there is an effect (which is possible) it's due to the acetic/ethanoic acid.

Of course it has "antimicrobial effects" it's a mild acid. That's why it's used as a househould cleaner. You planning on drinking your windex too? Silly argument - but people believe what they want to believe and most will only source links that back up what they want to believe.

Now "eye of newt" now there's a weight loss diamond!

cheers

Do you avoid fat, too? Fats are acids, too. In fact, they're half of the soap equation, and soap is a household (and body) cleaner. In fact, real soap like that is technically a salt! Should you avoid table salt, then, too?

Also, your comparison to Windex is essentially like comparing ethyl alcohol with methyl alcohol, and saying that, while both can be used as disinfectants, because one is toxic to the body, you shouldn't drink the other.

Your argument is not only silly, but downright absurd and fallacious. There are thousands of compounds that are both entirely edible and can be used for other purposes, including cleaning and medical purposes. The two sets of uses aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I agree - the argument is silly. But - my argument is not fallacious it's satirical - I'm sorry you missed the difference. And I never said I avoid Apple cider vinegar it makes a nice salad dressing - I just think it's silly to pick one form of acetic acid and ascribe health benefits to it.

Define satire:

the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Well, you got the ridicule right, but that's about it, considering I cited numerous studies that have repeatedly demonstrated some of the reported health benefits. Except you didn't attack those ones. You attacked the idea the idea that it can be both edible and antimicrobial, too, and proceeded to compare it to the decidedly inedible Windex to try to prove...what, exactly, then? That it's antimicrobial because it's an acid, and therefore can't possibly be good for anything else?

I do agree that it's silly to single out ACV over other forms of vinegar, but I also think it's silly to portray stupid talking paintings or have a clown for a mascot. That's marketing for you, though (and I also went into detail about the possible reasons ACV has been favored over others in previous posts). That doesn't invalidate any of the statements I made (and the topic was ACV, in particular, and for the sake of cleaning, some vinegars may actually be better than others, due to other compounds that may do unintended things like dye the surface in question).

But as I said earlier - people will believe what they wish to believe - in spite of empirical evidence - because people wish to believe in a miracles, and b. that they can do something other than watch their food intake and exercise in order to lose weight.

The beauty of open forums is discussion - which is what this is. So discuss on..............

Re bolded -- pot, meet kettle, since you obviously don't believe that ACV (or more precisely acetic acid) can do anything the claims are making, despite the fact that the empirical evidence is actually in favor of at least some of the claims.

As for your "b" statement, using aids like this doesn't necessarily mean the person can't or doesn't want to watch their food intake. The OP decided to try it for its reported health benefits. This may or may not include weight loss, but even if it did, they could still very well be watching their food intake, but having trouble with appetite (how many threads are posted about always feeling hungry?).

As always - a discussion is open to interpretation - interesting how you pick ridicule, when I would have said humour. I never intimated something couldn't be both edible and efficacious as a household cleaner. I said "of course it has antimicrobial properties - it's a mild acid."

Anyhoo - enjoy your side of the fence.

@ Dragonwolf

- i'm neandermagnon :drinker: - neanderthin is another user on this site, although I've not seen him around for a while

- I didn't think you were making a sales pitch - what I meant was that some of what you were saying, i.e. without the links to actual scientific studies, sounded like you were repeating the sales pitch of health companies that sell it. It was just a comment to illustrate that without the links to the articles

- that's interesting that cider vinegar's so cheap in the USA. I feel cheated now lol... in the UK malt vinegar is extremely cheap, back in the day (not lived there for a few years now) it was like 37p for a large bottle of it. Cider vinegar you'd have to go to the culinary isle of the supermarket and pay much more (can't remember how much it would cost). I think if people are going to discuss health benefits, I think they should just say "vinegar" then people are going to buy whatever vinegar is cheapest or whatever vinegar they like the best or which best fits the kind of food they want to cook. It's also worrying that people feel obliged to actually drink vinegar rather than just using more of it in their cooking/salad dressings. I mean if you like to drink vinegar that's fine but most people don't.

- the studies show a possible effect - the number of participants was pretty low, but I do think it at least warrants further study, and for people who have a family history of diabetes, diabetes or pre-diabetes, using more vinegar in cooking probably can't hurt and may have a small benefit - what I object to is the hard sales pitch by some alternative medicine peddlars that involves exaggerated claims and tagging on unproven benefits to the (possible) benefits that some studies have shown, plus convincing people to buy expensive vinegars of a particular specified kind, when the cheapest one in your local supermarket or whichever one fits best with your style of cooking is going to give you the same (possible) benefits.

:blushing: *facepalm* Sorry for the name mixup. :flowerforyou:

Unfortunately, the claims to its heartburn and cleaning efficacy haven't been studied, you're right. Those were more aside comments, but they are actually true, in my first-hand experience. See my other response for the heartburn part. The all-purpose/window cleaner and fabric softener, well...you'll just have to try them for yourself and see if they meet your standards. I'm sorry they sounded like sales pitch parroting. I admittedly realize I sound like that sometimes, unintentionally. It comes with sharing things that I've learned (I'm kind of surprised I haven't gotten accused of spamming for the amount of times I've linked the Staci Nerd Fitness article...).

I do agree that it would be more accurate to say "vinegar" and not just ACV, specifically, though that does risk opening up to other problems. Does balsamic or grape vinegar stain surfaces when used as a cleaner? Are the vinegars out there that have a lower acidity level, and therefore have a lower efficacy? In those cases, it makes sense, I think, to just stick with recommending a particular one. As someone who's not afraid to substitute and experiment, I'd like to think that people wouldn't take such recommendations so literally/seriously, but unfortunately that's probably just a pipe dream. The same goes for getting other people to be more generic about it. :drinker:

I'm glad we were able to turn this into a constructive discussion, though. So many of these types of threads too often get swamped with people mocking the idea and missing out on what could be an awesome and useful alternative to conventional methods of doing something. That's a real shame, since vinegar is so much cheaper than a lot of things out there for the various things it can be used for. :drinker:

any clear of very pale vinegar won't stain if you use it to sterilise surfaces in the home, but it smells really bad. It's very good on windows/glass though.

the problem with saying "apple cider vinegar" is it gives the impression that there's something special about this kind of vinegar... i.e. it's misleading. If you're going to eat the vinegar (e.g. as part of a salad dressing or other food) then the most important question is what kind goes the best with that food you want to eat - i.e. it's a culinary question. Assuming that one is going to be superior for everyone is incorrect, and also unfair on people in places where cider vinegar is less commonly used and more expensive. Really, anyone who is promoting this should just say "vinegar", or even state that any type of vinegar will do - people have enough brains to work out what's the best vinegar for them to use in their cooking.

The issue of which vinegar is stronger/more concentrated - this does not necessarily make it more effective. That's something you'd have to demonstrate with further studies. Vinegar that is used in cooking/on chips etc is fairly dilute - strong, concentrated acids can burn and do real tissue damage - I don't know if acetic/ethanoic acid could do that in a very purified form (I'm not a chemist) but I wouldn't test that hypothesis on myself by putting highly concentrated ethanoic acid on my chips or salad. Stronger isn't always better. And given that the evidence for the benefits are very limited - I wouldn't recommend going and trying to find the strongest vinegar. I'd say there's evidence that warrants further study, but not enough evidence to go out of your way to do anything more than make tasty salad dressings or any other foods that vinegar tastes good with.

I appreciate the discussion too... but most of these threads end up being a train wreck because people keep on harping on about these various health claims and don't back them up with any peer-reviewed studies, they just back them up with Mercola and other quackery, then it descends into a bun fight because they get upset when people tell them that those aren't reputable sources and that they're just spouting pseudoscience. You posted a couple of real studies, albeit with small numbers of participants.... that's the difference. If people would only back up their claims with actual bona fide studies, then you can start to have a productive discussion about them. If people just harp on and get butthurt because they're asked to back up their claims but can't... you have a typical MFP thread. And really, most of the health claims it's impossible to back them up with real studies, because there are no real studies. There's a ton of quackery and pseudoscience out there, and people need to learn to be a lot more skeptical and insist on actual scientific studies before parting with their hard earned cash or touting the benefits of such and such a concoction on the internet.

I worked in a health food store in the 70's and people drank it with Lecithin and B6 as a weight loss tool. Bleh!
Rinse your hair with it and water, it makes the hair shiny.
It tenderizes meat!

Added to water, ladies used to use it as a er, douche.

The writer Flaubert (1800's) had Anna Karenina drink vinegar to lose weight and look ill.

Personally, I like the fish and chips idea, but then I was born in Canada.

The common theme here? Regardless of the actual cause, odds are, too much acid isn't one of them. One of the theories actually mentions that one of the issues may be that the pH of your stomach may be too basic. Why does it burn, then, if it's basic? Because bases burn as much as acids. Google "lye burn" and you'll understand very quickly (WARNING: that Google search, especially on the images, is not for the faint of heart. Lye is nasty stuff and the results are gnarly). In these cases, at least, that means that adding an acidic compound, such as vinegar, would increase the acidity, bringing it back into a more proper balance.

I wish I could better explain this, because it really does work. I actually made a believer out of my husband. Like you, he found it counterintuitive and didn't believe me at first. He's a frequent heartburn sufferer and eats Tums like candy sometimes. One time, he had a particularly bad bout of heartburn that no amount of Tums would touch. After a sleepless night or two, with no end in sight, I finally managed to talk him into trying some vinegar for it. I mixed about a tablespoon or two into an 8oz glass of water (which he watered down further after the first couple of swigs). He's got a touchy gag reflex, so he didn't drink it all, but he managed to get it down, and after drinking about half of it, his heartburn was all but gone entirely.

Okay... so I can understand that theory, but if the stomach can be too basic, then it can also be too acidic, and therefore, this treatment would not work. As I said, when I drank ACV, and I did it daily for awhile, I always had heart burn after. Therefore, this shouldn't be a generic recommendation for everyone because someone with high acidic stomach content and stomach ulcers could become very sick.

I make L of green tea with tablespoon of apple cider vinegar and a spoon of honey.

The common theme here? Regardless of the actual cause, odds are, too much acid isn't one of them. One of the theories actually mentions that one of the issues may be that the pH of your stomach may be too basic. Why does it burn, then, if it's basic? Because bases burn as much as acids. Google "lye burn" and you'll understand very quickly (WARNING: that Google search, especially on the images, is not for the faint of heart. Lye is nasty stuff and the results are gnarly). In these cases, at least, that means that adding an acidic compound, such as vinegar, would increase the acidity, bringing it back into a more proper balance.

I wish I could better explain this, because it really does work. I actually made a believer out of my husband. Like you, he found it counterintuitive and didn't believe me at first. He's a frequent heartburn sufferer and eats Tums like candy sometimes. One time, he had a particularly bad bout of heartburn that no amount of Tums would touch. After a sleepless night or two, with no end in sight, I finally managed to talk him into trying some vinegar for it. I mixed about a tablespoon or two into an 8oz glass of water (which he watered down further after the first couple of swigs). He's got a touchy gag reflex, so he didn't drink it all, but he managed to get it down, and after drinking about half of it, his heartburn was all but gone entirely.

Okay... so I can understand that theory, but if the stomach can be too basic, then it can also be too acidic, and therefore, this treatment would not work. As I said, when I drank ACV, and I did it daily for awhile, I always had heart burn after. Therefore, this shouldn't be a generic recommendation for everyone because someone with high acidic stomach content and stomach ulcers could become very sick.

The same could be said of antacids, which is even worse of a generic recommendation, because it's touted by doctors without even bothering to run any kind of test to find the cause or even see which it is.

Giving antacids to someone who has too basic of stomach acid, or not enough acid to begin with, is arguably just as bad as giving vinegar to someone with too acidic or too much acid.

No recommendation should be generic with no regard to particular circumstances, but at some point, you have to let/force people to use their brains. If you keep taking antacids for heartburn and you still have heartburn, then it should stand to reason that you try something else. Likewise, if you know you have ulcers, or vinegar is giving you heartburn, then it should stand to reason that it will cause instead of alleviate your problem.

An analogy:
"Almonds are good for you, they have X, Y, and Z nutrients! So eat a handful every day to help live a healthy lifestyle!"
"That shouldn't be a generic recommendation, because some people are allergic to nuts, and eating them will kill them."

Everything has an exception. Generic anything will have exceptions. Hell, that's part of the reason I said "odds are.." to begin with, because there will be those cases where the heartburn is, in fact, caused by too much acid. There comes a point where you just have to use your brain to determine which of several options is the correct one for the circumstances.

Well, generally my go-to strategy for heartburn is to drink milk. But I see your point.

Can someone please explain to me how allowing fresh squeezed apple juice to spoil gives it all of these miracle health benefits that you don't get by eating an apple?

ACV is a fermented food aka high in probiotics.

so is all vinegar. That's how vinegar is made.

also, by the time the acidity/concentration of ethanoic acid gets to a certain point, the acidity kills all the microorganisms that are making it, so it's not a very good probiotic, in fact I don't think that any bacteria can survive in it. The same is true of beer and other alcoholic beverages - after the alcohol gets to a certain level, it kills the yeast that's producing it. The result is a drink that does not contain live yeast and that's a good thing because you don't really want too much yeast in your system anyway. Not all microorganisms are beneficial. Also, any kind of leavened bread (i.e. nearly all bread) is a fermented food, but the heat in the oven kills the yeast in it.

better probiotics would be stuff like yoghurt and other fermented milk products that are not heat treated after production, so that the bacteria survive in them.

Just a clarification on the beer thing - there are different types of yeast that can handle varying levels of alcohol percentage. Beer yeast essentially goes dormant and sinks to the bottom when the available sugars are consumed. You can harvest the yeast from the bottom and restart the process by adding more sugar (wort). Even after some yeasts can't process sugars and go dormant there are types of yeast that can - notably vinegar and lactobacillus (used in gueze and lambis style beers) so it's possible that vinegar could have beneficial probiotics in it (if unfiltered) but if thats the case then so too does unfiltered beer. Which is much more fun to drink. :drinker:

For continuing the discussion using beer, I like you.

Like her more because the description was accurate.

Not that it matters, but him. :laugh:

Sorry, I only know how to make it edible.

lol That is truly the only way in my book too.


I met a girl who could drink it straight. 1-2 tbsp. Me I gag at the smell.