Want to get into computer programming

candythorns
candythorns Posts: 246 Member
edited November 12 in Chit-Chat
Hey team,

I am looking to transition careers into computer programming. I have been self teaching and connecting with as many people as I can to make sure I am doing whatever I can to learn.

I've done 6 years of post-secondary, and CURRENTLY have no interest in going back for the 'hope' of a job.

I am teaching myself Python, HTML5, CSS, SQL, Javascript, and will then move on to teaching myself more. I even registered a domain name and hosting to practice my skills.

What are your thoughts on breaking into computer programming/web development/computer oriented fieldy type things.

I know I will start at the bottom, and the beginning, and that is ok. if you have any advice about breaking into this industry, please advise (all advice is appreciated, even the ones that suggest school [just make sure to suggest appropriately, ex. great schools, great programs, great content])

Thank you!!
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Replies

  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
    The job market for CS is pretty good right now but I think it would be tough to land one of those jobs without a degree. I do have some friends who managed to find a job that allowed them to pursue a degree on the side and they managed to get their CS degree this way. The nice thing about such an arrangement is your employer will generally cover the tuition; the downside is it may take you longer to get your degree and begin earning the salary of someone having a degree. That said, I think such jobs are fairly rare, at least in my experience.

    Some schools will offer a certificate program for people who already have a bachelor's degree in another subject and this essentially lets you complete the program in fewer years by avoiding some of the general curriculum requirements. The best way to get info on such programs is to contact the CS departments at your local universities. It's also possible at some schools to enter a CS graduate program without a CS undergraduate program and play "catch up" as part of the graduate program.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    The job market for CS is pretty good right now but I think it would be tough to land one of those jobs without a degree. I do have some friends who managed to find a job that allowed them to pursue a degree on the side and they managed to get their CS degree this way. The nice thing about such an arrangement is your employer will generally cover the tuition; the downside is it may take you longer to get your degree and begin earning the salary of someone having a degree. That said, I think such jobs are fairly rare, at least in my experience.

    Some schools will offer a certificate program for people who already have a bachelor's degree in another subject and this essentially lets you complete the program in fewer years by avoiding some of the general curriculum requirements. The best way to get info on such programs is to contact the CS departments at your local universities. It's also possible at some schools to enter a CS graduate program without a CS undergraduate program and play "catch up" as part of the graduate program.

    Thank you for your advice! And just a note: my current education is a BA Psych, Social Service Worker diploma. I feel that little will be transferable, but when I do the school route I will try to get as many credits as I can out of it.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    I am thinking of even interning somewhere part-time. But that is when I complete my website....and maybe have more projects to show for it. I am smart so feel I can make a go of it.

    My current industry pays very very little, so pay is not a concern for me lol
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    I'd advise learning something in addition to Python. Java or .net or something else, since it looks like you're interested in more than front-end stuff. There's a lot of money to be made if you are a problem solver and really understand the concepts, as opposed to just tweaking someone else's code. I retired after about 15 years from the day I started learning HTML.
  • GDLAZ
    GDLAZ Posts: 3,784 Member
    The industry, at least where I'm at, is looking more at certifications than degrees. Look into those Certs that aline with the work you'd like to do and pursue that.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    The industry, at least where I'm at, is looking more at certifications than degrees. Look into those Certs that aline with the work you'd like to do and pursue that.

    Can you recommend some for web development? That is where I would like to start. I will def. do my own search but if you have any recommendations (since I am new at this) I would appreciate it.
  • GDLAZ
    GDLAZ Posts: 3,784 Member
    I don't know about web development certs off the top of my head, but your local community college probably has information to point you in the right direction. You can either get the books and self-study, or take a short course to help you along.
  • Deipneus
    Deipneus Posts: 1,861 Member
    I like the way you think. Spending a lot of money to go back to school is probably unnecessary. Most people that I know who write code are "self-taught" which is a bit of a misnomer since we really take advantage of free online resources. http://www.w3schools.com and https://www.khanacademy.org are great resources. In my experience, people want to see your work, they don't care as much about certifications. That will depend on employers I suppose.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    I don't know about web development certs off the top of my head, but your local community college probably has information to point you in the right direction. You can either get the books and self-study, or take a short course to help you along.

    thank you! I just perused through their websites and everything seems to be f/t. I may look to sneak into just one in person class. I am going to be taking a lot of online courses, the University of Toronto is going to be offering some on courera this september...then if I actually feel that "I can do this" I may or may not quit my job, find something part-time so I can study...or intern...or something. I am really excited about this and feel I've got a shot! I will keep you guys posted when I have a website built....it will probably take me a couple weeks, or more, to get right.
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    I wouldn't waste time with certs.

    Decide what you want to start doing. Google interview questions on those areas -- CSS, JavaScript, SQL, C#, whatever -- and learn the heck out of the answers. Not just the answers, but why the answers are what they are. Really grok that info and how to implement it. Don't think of the answers as a cheat sheet, think of them as an outline for the very basics of what you need to know.

    Demonstrate the heck out of those concepts on your site. It's unlikely I'd look at such a site, but maybe for an entry level position if the person I was interviewing rocked the questions since there's no telling who actually wrote the code. Even if no one ever looks, it's awesome practice.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    I like the way you think. Spending a lot of money to go back to school is probably unnecessary. Most people that I know who write code are "self-taught" which is a bit of a misnomer since we really take advantage of free online resources. http://www.w3schools.com and https://www.khanacademy.org are great resources. In my experience, people want to see your work, they don't care as much about certifications. That will depend on employers I suppose.

    Thank you for those resources, i have not seen those 2 in my searches!!
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    I wouldn't waste time with certs.

    Decide what you want to start doing. Google interview questions on those areas -- CSS, JavaScript, SQL, C#, whatever -- and learn the heck out of the answers. Not just the answers, but why the answers are what they are. Really grok that info and how to implement it. Don't think of the answers as a cheat sheet, think of them as an outline for the very basics of what you need to know.

    Demonstrate the heck out of those concepts on your site. It's unlikely I'd look at such a site, but maybe for an entry level position if the person I was interviewing rocked the questions since there's no telling who actually wrote the code. Even if no one ever looks, it's awesome practice.

    That is amazing advice. Thank you :)
  • opus649
    opus649 Posts: 633 Member
    while($weight > $goal_weight)
    {
    $weight--;
    sleep(86400);
    }

    maintain();
  • ElliottTN
    ElliottTN Posts: 1,614 Member
    Most people in my industry do not have very good experience with just the cert type people. Don't get me wrong, there are some really awesome people with just certs out there but the majority of them cannot hack out a day of quality work. In fact most people with just certs never really make it past HR bc they do not meet the min. requirements for the job. We usually never even receive their resume for review. The exception would be if you are in places like NY or several large cities in Cali where their are tons of start-up opportunities. Even then though you need a portfolio and tons of social networking in the community to get in. With the above said, infrastructure, like pure MIS server jockies and such can be quite talented through the education they receive when obtaining certs but that is a completely different world.

    The question you really need to ask yourself is if you want to get into computer programming or web development and design. Depending on what you really want to do depends on where you should focus your time. Sure, there is some overlap but for the most part they diverge into two completely separate things.
  • aylajane
    aylajane Posts: 979 Member
    while($weight > $goal_weight)
    {
    $weight--;
    sleep(86400);
    }

    maintain();

    LOVING THIS :) Finally, put into a language I understand :)
  • GDLAZ
    GDLAZ Posts: 3,784 Member
    I wouldn't waste time with certs.

    Decide what you want to start doing. Google interview questions on those areas -- CSS, JavaScript, SQL, C#, whatever -- and learn the heck out of the answers. Not just the answers, but why the answers are what they are. Really grok that info and how to implement it. Don't think of the answers as a cheat sheet, think of them as an outline for the very basics of what you need to know.

    Demonstrate the heck out of those concepts on your site. It's unlikely I'd look at such a site, but maybe for an entry level position if the person I was interviewing rocked the questions since there's no telling who actually wrote the code. Even if no one ever looks, it's awesome practice.

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of Certs either, however, where I'm working they're required. You gotta do what the industry dictates. I would prefer experience over Certs, but unfortunately that's not what the decision-makers want.
  • sharonnj398
    sharonnj398 Posts: 189 Member
    You are in good shape since you already have a bachelor's and won't be asked to repeat coursework. You want to know the practical, hands-on work for anything you get into, and don't be too concerned about having to look specific commands up. IT is allowed to have books at their desks :)

    It is not unusual for people to change fields after getting a degree -
    http://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/stem/stem-html/

    My degree is Comp Sci, but I have not programmed since school. I do have the background to do IT procurement and I've gotten into the niche field of software licensing compliance for a few years. I'm weird and love the complexity since I rock the processor core-driven metrics for Oracle and IBM.

    Some of the suggestions have a broad cross-section - concentrate on what you need to know for the end job. IT can be tricky because there's openings in the field, but not all skills are in demand. I think database admins (dba) will remain big, and don't overlook the 'big data' craze - learn Hadoop for big data. You'll also have other admin roles with networking, especially with cloud configurations. Middleware, business intelligence, storage and data management are also big. Some can be very product specific - like setting up MS SharePoint.

    Dice is the web site that recruits for specific skills, I have found.
  • cosmiqrust
    cosmiqrust Posts: 214 Member
    have you tried coursera? they offer lots of free online college level courses, including beginning computer programming. i've taken a few and loved it.
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    I wouldn't waste time with certs.

    Decide what you want to start doing. Google interview questions on those areas -- CSS, JavaScript, SQL, C#, whatever -- and learn the heck out of the answers. Not just the answers, but why the answers are what they are. Really grok that info and how to implement it. Don't think of the answers as a cheat sheet, think of them as an outline for the very basics of what you need to know.

    Demonstrate the heck out of those concepts on your site. It's unlikely I'd look at such a site, but maybe for an entry level position if the person I was interviewing rocked the questions since there's no telling who actually wrote the code. Even if no one ever looks, it's awesome practice.

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of Certs either, however, where I'm working they're required. You gotta do what the industry dictates. I would prefer experience over Certs, but unfortunately that's not what the decision-makers want.
    I never made a hiring decision based on certs. If some place you want to work requires them then, yeah, apply the knowledge you've already gained to getting one. But in that order. If I interviewed someone who pushed certs rather than his work, I'd probably pass. "The industry" doesn't dictate certs, even if some employers might.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
    I don't know that certs are necessarily the best way to go for web development positions. There are tons of certs out there, but the really useful ones are the really hard ones, e.g., some of the advanced Cisco certs that involve a full day in the lab on top of passing an exam, and most people I know that go after those certs are already employed and have access to the information/equipment they need to study.

    The main reason why a degree is useful is that, without one, you'll frequently be weeded out before the managers/people on the team even see your resume. The reality is most employers tend to get more resumes than is practical to consider and so many get weeded out based on failing to meet basic criteria. For instance, where I work, anything under a 3.0 is very likely to get your resume bounced, a degree in a field we don't work in will have the same result, and so on If you don't meet the basic requirements, your best bet is to know someone who already works there and can get your resume considered by the people making the hiring decision. For instance, I have a friend with a civil engineering degree who made it into a development position simply because he had several friends on the team that hired him and they brought his resume to their manager. Of course, if you don't have that inside connection, your best bet is to meet all the minimum requirements for the job you're applying for, which is where that degree comes in handy.
  • GDLAZ
    GDLAZ Posts: 3,784 Member
    I wouldn't waste time with certs.

    Decide what you want to start doing. Google interview questions on those areas -- CSS, JavaScript, SQL, C#, whatever -- and learn the heck out of the answers. Not just the answers, but why the answers are what they are. Really grok that info and how to implement it. Don't think of the answers as a cheat sheet, think of them as an outline for the very basics of what you need to know.

    Demonstrate the heck out of those concepts on your site. It's unlikely I'd look at such a site, but maybe for an entry level position if the person I was interviewing rocked the questions since there's no telling who actually wrote the code. Even if no one ever looks, it's awesome practice.

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of Certs either, however, where I'm working they're required. You gotta do what the industry dictates. I would prefer experience over Certs, but unfortunately that's not what the decision-makers want.
    I never made a hiring decision based on certs. If some place you want to work requires them then, yeah, apply the knowledge you've already gained to getting one. But in that order. If I interviewed someone who pushed certs rather than his work, I'd probably pass. "The industry" doesn't dictate certs, even if some employers might.
    20+ years in the industry and suddenly my education and experience were not enough. Had to cram to go get the certs. I did it because it was required, but I don't feel it helped me do my job any better. Just shows that I can cram for an exam. If I need to find out how to do something on the job I have resources available to look it up. I don't commit it to memory. At my age the memory's not getting any better. :)
  • leadslinger17
    leadslinger17 Posts: 297 Member
    Certs are pretty useless in programming... there aren't any standard ones that are widely accepted that I know of. Quite different if you are looking into going into the networking area of IT.

    While you can certainly teach yourself to program on your own, there is a lot of theoretical stuff that needs to be covered as well. Not that you can't get that on your own, but people tend to just focus on the "I can make a program do this" aspect of coding and not the software design/engineering/algorithm efficiency part of it. So if you are teaching yourself, be sure to pick up some books in this area as well.

    There are ways to come by a degree at a reputable school for less. Stay in state. Get basic requirements out of the way at a community college and transfer to a university for major classes.
  • j4nash
    j4nash Posts: 1,719 Member
    I agree, certs are worthless.

    On the job learning is the best. Internship like you mentioned might be good, or see if you can incorporate into your current job.
  • Ideabaker
    Ideabaker Posts: 517 Member
    Lots of great information on this thread; thanks to all. Finally, a Chit-Chat topic that isn't riddled with cyber-flirting!
  • GDLAZ
    GDLAZ Posts: 3,784 Member
    Maybe it's a regional thing. Where I am, if you don't have a cert you don't have a job. Like I mentioned before, I don't really like Certs because they don't tell me you can do the work, they only show that you can cram for an exam. But it is a necessity, at least where I'm at, and it is quicker to attain a cert than a degree. Still work toward that degree, but the Cert will get you in the job market quicker in most cases.
  • CodeMonkey78
    CodeMonkey78 Posts: 320 Member
    Regarding web development, please do not waste your time or money with W3Schools "certification"; they are in no way associated with the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C -- http://www.w3.org/) and you will more than likely get laughed at while wasting your money. There is a website dedicated to this topic alone: http://www.w3fools.com/. However, W3Schools is fairly handy if you need a quick reference on *how* to syntactically use a data type, etc. Be warned though: they are not always up to date on best practices.

    Regarding software development, I would recommend learning object-oriented programming languages (C++/Java/C#/etc.) and be able to demonstrate proficiency in them. Before a flame war begins, yes I know that variables, data types, etc. are treated as objects WRT *most* scripting languages.

    You can learn these on your own time free online through top-notch universities but you cannot claim any of these classes as college credit. If you're interested, check out:

    https://www.coursera.org/courses
    https://www.udacity.com/courses#!/all

    There are few certifications (WRT software development/engineering) that are recognized as having value: a Certified Modeling and Simulation Professional (CMSP), Microsoft Development/IT certifications, and Java certification. Some companies actually require certification and the others could care less. This all depends on the company and the job that they need to fill.

    ** Caveat: the lions share of employers value relevant work experience, knowledge, and college GPA over certification (and usually require all if you are in the IT industry). My company will actually accept 4 years of relevant work experience/knowledge in lieu of an degree in Computer Science, Computer Engineering, etc.

    Microsoft certs ONLY demonstrate that you know how to use Microsoft tools, software design patterns, platforms/languages, and can pass an exam. You must have a relevant degree and experience in the Modeling and Simulation field to qualify for CMSP certification.

    If you are interested:
    Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/learning/en-us/certification-overview.aspx
    CMSP: http://www.simprofessional.org/index.html
    Java: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/extra/certification/index.html

    It may be easier in your case to work your way into an entry level systems administration task, get certified in the IT field through CompTIA and ISC2, and then start learning the tools/languages you would need to break into software engineering/development. You would get good OTJ training programming while doing SA work (scripting, automating tasks, etc.) and this would help reiterate logical programming concepts.

    Just my $0.02. Hope this helps and good luck!
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    so I have been teaching myself, it has been a slow process but still trying, and I have created a website that is currently under contruction!! Coded all of it myself so far:

    http://www.foxyxombie.com

    Additionally I have taken a ton of HTML, CSS courses on Udemy, and Codecademy, and am doing a Python course right now on Coursera. I am finding it a slow process, but I actually quit my job to have more time to study this while doing more run of the mill work (I was previously a counsellor and I was too burnt out to even try and focus on teaching myself something practical).

    Wish me luck!!!
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    Hey! Started back up on here and saw this in my discussions

    I do backend work now as a Helpdesk Tech for a large financial company for over a year. I was promoted to level 2 recently. I'm going to be studying for my A+ cert and then probably Microsoft certs though I'm told to look into vmware and Cisco

    Thanks for the encouragement!! I hope you are all still trucking at your weight loss goals
  • TrailRunn3r82
    TrailRunn3r82 Posts: 126 Member
    candythorns wrote: »
    Hey! Started back up on here and saw this in my discussions

    I do backend work now as a Helpdesk Tech for a large financial company for over a year. I was promoted to level 2 recently. I'm going to be studying for my A+ cert and then probably Microsoft certs though I'm told to look into vmware and Cisco

    Thanks for the encouragement!! I hope you are all still trucking at your weight loss goals

    Very inspirational. Thank you for coming back and telling us where you are at. I have also thought about switching careers and doing something in the IT world.
  • dragon_girl26
    dragon_girl26 Posts: 2,187 Member
    candythorns wrote: »
    Hey! Started back up on here and saw this in my discussions

    I do backend work now as a Helpdesk Tech for a large financial company for over a year. I was promoted to level 2 recently. I'm going to be studying for my A+ cert and then probably Microsoft certs though I'm told to look into vmware and Cisco

    Thanks for the encouragement!! I hope you are all still trucking at your weight loss goals

    Wasn't going to respond to this, being an old thread, until I saw that you, as the OP, came back for an update. This is definitely a great way to get your foot in the door. It's similar to how I got into my current position.
    I started in data entry in my company several years ago. Had a bachelor's degree in an unrelated field, but decided I wanted to do programming. I started taking night classes in addition to working full time, and started letting many of my friends as possible in our IT department know it. After two years and getting a few basic programming classes (Java, SQL, and VB) under my belt, I finally got an interview for a jr. programming position...
    That was 4, almost 5 years ago. I got my bachelor's last year, and was able to do that while working in my field of choice. I was pretty lucky in that sense, but it always helps to keep your eyes open for opportunities...and start networking..
    Good luck!
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