Is my trainer wrong?
nikkohli
Posts: 311 Member
I started Stronglifts today and I am working with a trainer just to make sure my form is right. Let me start by saying this guy is really against me doing Stronglifts. I am by no means strong but I have some minimal strength training experience, and a reasonable outlook on my goals, plus I feel like I have learned a lot by reading here the past 1.5 years. I did not walk in there expecting to bench 300lbs and lose 10% body fat by the end of this week.
His objection is that a newbie shouldn't start with compund moves in heavy lifting. I told him I was ok with starting with low-ish weight to get my form down, because a few "practice" sessions isn't going to discourage me. I am ok with doing lighter than I need weights until I get the form correct and then move up while still keeping form. He said then those workouts would be useless because I wasn't challenging myself. I can kiiiinda see that point in terms of building strength but I don't think gettting correct form is useless and I already said I am ok with them being a kind of a throwaway in terms of progress.
Second issue: When I did my deadlift set, after 2 reps I told him I was feeling it in my lower back and asked about my form. He said that was where I should feel it and that is why he didn't agree with this plan--bc my lower back isn't strong enough yet. I mentioned I thought it should work my hamstrings and glutes and he said glutes, yes; hamstrings no. This seems to go against what I have read elsewhere....and I really don't want to mess up my back.
So, am I am wrong? Is he? For women who have done 5X5 with little to no "real" strength training but a reasonable level of fitness, how did you start?
His objection is that a newbie shouldn't start with compund moves in heavy lifting. I told him I was ok with starting with low-ish weight to get my form down, because a few "practice" sessions isn't going to discourage me. I am ok with doing lighter than I need weights until I get the form correct and then move up while still keeping form. He said then those workouts would be useless because I wasn't challenging myself. I can kiiiinda see that point in terms of building strength but I don't think gettting correct form is useless and I already said I am ok with them being a kind of a throwaway in terms of progress.
Second issue: When I did my deadlift set, after 2 reps I told him I was feeling it in my lower back and asked about my form. He said that was where I should feel it and that is why he didn't agree with this plan--bc my lower back isn't strong enough yet. I mentioned I thought it should work my hamstrings and glutes and he said glutes, yes; hamstrings no. This seems to go against what I have read elsewhere....and I really don't want to mess up my back.
So, am I am wrong? Is he? For women who have done 5X5 with little to no "real" strength training but a reasonable level of fitness, how did you start?
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Replies
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I don't do 5x5, but I lift heavy. I started by working with a trainer, and did not do much in the way of compound lifts. I did squats and deadlift with dumbbells, then eventually moved to doing it with the real bar. I think it depends on your current level of fitness and strength. For me, increasing fitness level and increasing strength was a great move. I wouldn't have been able to bench the bar at the beginning.
Now I bench 110#, squat 175#, deadlift 235#, and overhead press 85#. All one rep max. If you don't have enough back strength, you cannot deadlift without risk of injury. Same issue for core strength needed to squat. I had to increase strength in upper back to get to my current deadlift PR. Compound lifts are, well, compound, so everything is connected. There are a bunch of trainers on MFP that can probably give you a better answer as to the best way to achieve your goals this was just my experience,
Whatever you decide, good luck, have fun, and keep it up! More ladies lifting...RAH0 -
Regardless of what you are doing, proper form is a must!
Form, form, form.0 -
Thanks! I did squat with a 30lb kettlebell and was able to benchpress 50lbs (this was a little shaky towards the end) today with no problems. I know it is nothing compared to lots of women on here but it made me feel pretty darn tough to get started! It was just the deadlift that didnt feel right. He started me at 75lbs, which I think might have been too much.
Also, I had my SL app but he said he knew which exercises to do and it wasnt until the end that I realized I should have done a barbell row instead of deadlift. I know it isn't a HUGE deal to get back on track, but it annoyed me. I guess even if he is right, the fact that I don't click with him (and trust him) is a warning sign either way.0 -
I started Stronglifts today and I am working with a trainer just to make sure my form is right. Let me start by saying this guy is really against me doing Stronglifts.
I didn't read any further. Fire the trainer, find one who isn't an idiot.
EDIT: Ok, went back and read the rest of it. Don't just fire him, shoot him and bury his body in the woods before he can screw up anybody else. Compound moves with low weight is EXACTLY where a novice should be starting. Bloody hell...0 -
. Double post0
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Regardless of what you are doing, proper form is a must!
Form, form, form.
I know--that's why I got the trainer!!!
I am just not sure if he is right and I shouldn't start with SL, or if I am ok doing SL as a beginner as long as I pay attention to form.
So should my back hurt immediately after a deadlift? Is that a sign of poor form or just weak muscle and I should move my weight down until I build strength? I am not worried about being weak or looking dumb....I just want to do it right and not get hurt!0 -
Why are you paying a trainer if you are doing SL 5x5???
I thought deadlift was only one rep???? I'm i missing something???0 -
I would squat & dead lift but start very light - maybe just the bar - or body weight squats. Straight leg deadlifts & good mornings are great to strengthen the posterior chain - get some instruction on proper form first. They are not dangerous if done properly. Eastcoast Jim0
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I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?0 -
I started Stronglifts today and I am working with a trainer just to make sure my form is right. Let me start by saying this guy is really against me doing Stronglifts.
I didn't read any further. Fire the trainer, find one who isn't an idiot.
EDIT: Ok, went back and read the rest of it. Don't just fire him, shoot him and bury his body in the woods before he can screw up anybody else. Compound moves with low weight is EXACTLY where a novice should be starting. Bloody hell...
Haha! Well once I get his body out of the way, then I won't feel awkward going back there. I have another session scheduled for Sat and I am dreading it
It's kind of a bummer to already feel frustrated by something I was so excited to start. 0 -
I would squat & dead lift but start very light - maybe just the bar - or body weight squats. Straight leg deadlifts & good mornings are great to strengthen the posterior chain - get some instruction on proper form first. They are not dangerous if done properly. Eastcoast Jim
Thanks! I am almost wondering if he started me too heavy to "prove me wrong".0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.0 -
I did the same program my husband did.
Deadlifts, squats, OHP, etc. I don't recall any of the exercises being modified in any way except for weight & to accommodate or limit my flexibility, because I had a larger range of movement than he did. I may have started out with weenie weights (colored dumb bells) before I was able to use the the oly bar.
That was more than 10 years ago & we still work the same program together. If I were you, I would watch a lot of youtube videos & have an idea of what your form should be like so that you stay well informed. Also, have him take video of you so you can see where you're at as far as form.
The lack of support you have from your trainer is off-putting to me. If he's not comfortable with training a woman new to iron, I'd find someone else. That kind of sucks =/0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I believe you because, as mentioned above, I know nothing, but I copied this directly from the SL5X5 website under the "Deadlifts" section
***5×5 stands for five sets of five reps. These are the sets and reps you do on every exercise except Deadlifts. Deadlift is only one set of five reps (1×5)***
I am so tired I am misreading? I am not being snarky--I am genuinely confused and I don't want to hurt myself!
ETA: Ok--Now I see where I am confused. So I should be doing one, taking a break, doing one, taking a break?0 -
Ditch this trainer. Join the women's strong lift group here, or eat train progress. Watch videos from you tube about proper form. Post videos of yourself doing form checks. Google common dead lift, squat errors/mistakes. Buy a copy of starting strength and read it immediately.
I'm guessing your lower back was hurting because you weren't picking up the barbell from a complete dead stop, as in the name DEADlift, after every rep. And/or not letting the bar go in a controlled drop once you pass the knees on the way down. But it could be because of other issues.
You can do this on your own. Your trainer doesn't know how to deadlift if he thinks you don't use your hammies.0 -
I'm guessing your lower back was hurting because you weren't picking up the barbell from a complete dead stop, as in the name DEADlift, after every rep. And/or not letting the bar go in a controlled drop once you pass the knees on the way down. But it could be because of other issues.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED!!! Especially the controlled drop. There was no "on the way down". I lifted it, and then bent over to set it down.0 -
The lack of support you have from your trainer is off-putting to me. If he's not comfortable with training a woman new to iron, I'd find someone else. That kind of sucks =/
Thanks
I don't mind ditching him and losing the $$--it is just that I have 3 sessions left and it will be awkward to see him there. I am usually pretty outspoken but it is hard for me, being unexperienced, to tell someone "Sorry--I don't agree with you!"0 -
Wow! 5x5 stronglifts is a great program for the beginner. All these lifts help build core strength so your first assumption was correct. You can do this at a lightened weight range and as was mentioned good form. These are basic compound exercises that I would recommend anyone doing for general strength and body re-composition . Just cut the guy lose and find yourself someone more knowledgeable.0
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Maybe this is why he was reluctant to encourage you to go on with this program. It happens all the time in the gym....someone comes in new to _whatever_ (weights, kickboxing, etc) and goes gung-ho, ending up with an injury within the first few weeks.I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
I'm not saying that would be the case with you as you seem more knowledgeable than the average lifting-newbie; just might be something in the back of his mind.0 -
Maybe this is why he was reluctant to encourage you to go on with this program. It happens all the time in the gym....someone comes in new to _whatever_ (weights, kickboxing, etc) and goes gung-ho, ending up with an injury within the first few weeks.I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
I'm not saying that would be the case with you as you seem more knowledgeable than the average lifting-newbie; just might be something in the back of his mind.
Thanks for your reply! That makes sense too!0 -
Kick the trainer to the curb.
The lack of support you have from your trainer is off-putting to me. If he's not comfortable with training a woman new to iron, I'd find someone else. That kind of sucks =/
Thanks
I don't mind ditching him and losing the $$--it is just that I have 3 sessions left and it will be awkward to see him there. I am usually pretty outspoken but it is hard for me, being unexperienced, to tell someone "Sorry--I don't agree with you!"
If this is a chain gym ask the management to change trainers and get your sessions with a different person. If they don't honor that, time to look at a new gym.
In your case, I think you have a trainer who wants to keep you away from a self directed program and rely on him for programming. More money for him.
It sounds like your form is bad on the deadlift, and it is 1 set of 5 reps. You should have control on the way up as well as the way down, and the way down requires at least as much proper form. Elliott Hulse has a great video on form, including the descent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFnwEsqJABU
Start with just the bar and something to get the bar about 9 inches off the ground, use plates or the aerobics steps to get it close. If your gym has bumper plates (big rubber plates) you might be able to put 2 10 lb bumpers on and be at the right height but will be pretty close to the 75 lbs that you just did and may compromise form.
Take a video of your deadlift and post it on YouTube and people here can give you advice. Find someone at the gym who is lifting a decent weight to check your form. They may not coach you but they can tell you to STOP if something looks wrong.0 -
Maybe this is why he was reluctant to encourage you to go on with this program. It happens all the time in the gym....someone comes in new to _whatever_ (weights, kickboxing, etc) and goes gung-ho, ending up with an injury within the first few weeks.I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
I'm not saying that would be the case with you as you seem more knowledgeable than the average lifting-newbie; just might be something in the back of his mind.
His job is to show her how to do it correctly, not to discourage the entire program. If 45 is too much he should find her a training bar or PVC and work on form above all. His job is to set her up for success in what she want's to do. At the end of the day it is her decision and she is paying him to show her how it is done.
I could understand if he wants her to build some strength first before jumping deep into 5x5, but that is why they make PVC and lighter bars for form training.0 -
i think there are many trainers who aren't into weightlifting and powerlifting. there are also many who dont know proper form .
Plus barbell training is not the sexy exercise program it seems many trainers like to pull together. for instance i've run into many trainers who's idea of functional training is stuff like a half squat on a bosu ball rather than a full post parallel squat with a barbell.
also, doing strong lifts you're not going to be good business sense for them since once you learn the form you really dont need a trainer
my suggestion would be to go back to the gym and ask for a trainer who has powerlifting experience and training. i also test trainers by asking them to show me how to clean. if they can't do it or worse ask me what it is then i personally wouldnt see a value in working with them for strength training
as for the deadlift, not keeping the bar in contact with your legs at all times during the lift can also create low back pain, as can rounding the back0 -
When I started with my trainer I specified very clearly that I wanted to do compound lifts with free weights (because I was wary of being pushed to use machines) but we still spent quite some time at the beginning doing bodyweight exercises and TRX training because I wasn't strong enough to use the Oly bar properly. Then we started with the training bar for DL and OHP, until I was strong enough to use the proper bar with good form. Now I'm rolling, but starting that way was very sensible for the weedy beginner I was then.
It does sound as if you haven't clicked with the trainer, which is a shame - at the very least, he should be not only explaining to you why he wants you to follow his programme, but ensuring that you agree. My trainer explains the benefits of an exercise and how it will help me reach my goals as a matter of course, and I've always felt confident that he is as enthusiastic about my progress as I am.
Maybe talk to your trainer, or switch to another one?
Good luck!0 -
my suggestion would be to go back to the gym and ask for a trainer who has powerlifting experience and training. i also test trainers by asking them to show me how to clean. if they can't do it or worse ask me what it is then i personally wouldnt see a value in working with them for strength training
I agree about finding a new trainer (starting with 75 lbs is inexcusable) but unless the OP wants to compete in powerlifting, powerlifting exercises aren't required. There are hundreds of other exercises out there, and it's easily possible to get in great shape without doing a single bench press, back squat, or barbell deadlift. Asking a trainer to do a certain program is like asking a doctor for a certain medication that your friends are using. A good trainer can tailor a customized program that's superior to mass-marketed programs, so i'd keep an open mind. But do make sure they have a good certification (ACSM, NASM, NSCA, etc).0 -
Thanks everyone! Now I just have to figure out how to tell him without making all my future encounters uncomfortable. It is not a chain and the only other trainer is his brother....so I am going to youtube, ask questions here, and move forward carefully on my own.
I know I could find another program but I have seen so many people have success with 5X5, I love the idea of a steady program so I know exactly what to do, and even though I don't ever see myself completing, I like the lifts and the progressing weight. I like the idea of lifting big things! I just wish I had a buddy here to workout with...
Thank you everyone for your supprt and comments. I really appreciate it! :flowerforyou:0 -
Your "trainer" is an idiot and should be fired. Fortunately, you can do exactly that.0
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Strong lifts is a great beginners program, he's nuts. Start with lower weight and make sure your form is perfect before you start going up too heavy. Fire this dude and watch youtube videos, you'll learn all you need to. Or find a personal trainer who knows what he's talking about, compound movements are the best thing for you. Machines force your body into unnatural movements.0
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Good job starting with compound lifts, and having a program! Having an outline of what to do makes it SO much easier than just showing up and being like "hmmmm, legs... squats? Hamstring curls? Decisions, decisions..."
Regarding the pain in your back with deadlifts: I have noticed that if I am not tightening my core very consciously, I get a twinge in my back while doing deadlifts, almost regardless of weight (65 lbs or 205 lbs, doesn't matter). Try exhaling very forcefully while squeezing your abs while you're standing up. It has made a world of difference for me - before, I thought I was hurting myself even though I could easily lift the weight.
Also, 1 x 5 does mean 1 set of 5 reps. With deadlift, that involves putting the weights completely down on the floor in between reps (for the "dead" part of the lift), but you wouldn't just lift it once, go drink some water, lift it again, check your phone, etc. All five in a row, starting each rep from a "dead" stop at the bottom of the lift.0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I believe you because, as mentioned above, I know nothing, but I copied this directly from the SL5X5 website under the "Deadlifts" section
***5×5 stands for five sets of five reps. These are the sets and reps you do on every exercise except Deadlifts. Deadlift is only one set of five reps (1×5)***
I am so tired I am misreading? I am not being snarky--I am genuinely confused and I don't want to hurt myself!
ETA: Ok--Now I see where I am confused. So I should be doing one, taking a break, doing one, taking a break?
Duh! My mistake, it was REALLY late for me last night. Yes ONE SET of FIVE (Should have been sleeping, ha). But...it sounds like your trainer certainly overloaded you on day one, regardless of that. You should have been doing them bar only (even a plastic one if needed), since session one (and two and three...if necessary) is about getting form down.
If there is any way, please find a different trainer. If they are part of this gym, perhaps a talk w/ management is in order. Explain that your trainer does not want to and is not teaching you the program that you paid them to teach. Perhaps another trainer is available.0
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