Why choose other diets over calorie counting?
Replies
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Low carb/Atkins isn't a fad. You can do low carb/Atkins without buying anything but the food itself.
Depends on who you talk to about it..lots start them but can't sustain them...they are hard to follow. I can't imagine eating very low carb...and I am not a big carb eater...
Low Carb and Atkins are not guarantees...you can gain weight while doing those particular eating plans...but you don't gain weight if you count calories and stay in maitenance or in a deficit...0 -
I have spent too many dollars to count over the years and I have been on too many diets to count.
BUT I can tell you my biggest downfall is always weighing and measuring my food and tracking what I eat. Bottom line is every diet does come down to deficit eating as was said in the first post.
This time I am being honest with myself and using myfitnesspal to track everything I eat even if I don't like what it says.
Attitude is everything. This time I am going to make it to my goal no matter how long it takes.
The best thing about weight watchers or any other group that you can join Including this one is the support you get from other people.0 -
Low carb/Atkins isn't a fad. You can do low carb/Atkins without buying anything but the food itself.
Depends on who you talk to about it..lots start them but can't sustain them...they are hard to follow. I can't imagine eating very low carb...and I am not a big carb eater...
Low Carb and Atkins are not guarantees...you can gain weight while doing those particular eating plans...but you don't gain weight if you count calories and stay in maitenance or in a deficit...
Just as lots of people start MFP and do calorie counting and stop.
The key about eating low carb and Atkins are understanding why they work. Several people count carbs AND calories.0 -
people are lazy and don't want to measure everything they eat0
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Lots of folks start MFP and then can't sustain it....Low carb/Atkins isn't a fad. You can do low carb/Atkins without buying anything but the food itself.
Depends on who you talk to about it..lots start them but can't sustain them...they are hard to follow. I can't imagine eating very low carb...and I am not a big carb eater...
Low Carb and Atkins are not guarantees...you can gain weight while doing those particular eating plans...but you don't gain weight if you count calories and stay in maitenance or in a deficit...0 -
To me, MFP, lose it, and low carb, slow carb, south beach, paleo, etc. etc. etc. have a lot in common. They all provide structure Do you want structure in terms of what to eat? Or how much?Slim fast or herbalife in particular, or even the Atkins diet or other fad diets?
Atkins isn't a fad diet. You eat real food like nuts and greens and cheese and meat. You watch your carbohydrate count. Been around since the 70s and sustainable. Not a fad. SlimFast drinks shakes and asks you to eat sensibly the rest of the time. Herbalife, shakes. Not equal. It's the orange in your apple comparison.Lots of those diets are just ways to create a deficit without having to count.
I agree. Non-fad diets like Atkins and Weight Watchers are basically this.^^
Some people need this structure. Some people struggle with cravings that are hard to manage and ignore.
Sometimes just the accountability to a community and/or the fact that you've spent money on it, is enough to keep you on course. This does work for some people.
I use self-education and the accountability of free resources and communities/forums to keep me on track.
There is really no shame in needing a little structure or help. I'm working it and succeeding. You have to want it bad and no matter how hard it is, keep working it. Regardless whether you need support or not.
BOTH have their place and value. If your issue is portion control, counting/weighing/measuring may make sense (to learn). If you are like I was and have no clue what or how to eat to lose and maintain, then having something with more structured food goals may make sense. And for some, doing both makes sense.
And, of course, folks grow and change. Their needs grow and change as well.
Why the need for a dichotomy at all? Why the need to make one be better than another?
They all have value, if we learn from them and can use some of what we learn to lose and then, IMPORTANTLY, to maintain.0 -
yeah, no.My mom has done multiple diets over the years: Jenny Craig, Ideal Protein, Visalus, a variation of the Bernstein diet, and a trainer she worked with for a short time gave her many different "detox" teas.
She's spent loads of money over the years, and ALWAYS gains the weight back, and then some. When I asked her why she doesn't try to do it on her own, her reply was "That's too hard".
I think laziness is a big factor for many people (I won't say all, because I'm sure some people have had success with some of these programs). They don't want to have to count, or think about it. They pay loads of money so that someone else will tell them what to eat & when.
Sorry, I'm not sure what part you disagree with? My mom and many others like her HAVE spent a lot of money over the years looking for a quick fix. And if you don't like that I think people are lazy, I did mention that I am not saying all people are.0 -
WW doesn't tell people they can eat all the fruit they want and it won't affect their weight loss. That is just a common opinion from people who glance at the plan and don't understand it. In effect, your produce for the day is pre-logged. You can skip eating it but you don't get to eat cookies instead.
The other day I added up the calories in my daily calcium chews, adult gummy vites and omega-3 supplements and it was close to 100 calories. I can log those items every single day, or I can just aim for say 1300 calories in food every day if I want my intake around 1400. Then I'm not tempted to skip the supplements in order to have some ice cream. That's all the 'free produce' thing is. I think it makes a lot of sense.
Anyway-- Different diet methods suit different people. Some of us rotate through a whole bunch of plans. Diet ADD, I guess. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. What's best for you today isn't best for everyone today.
One con people don't seem to mention much about calorie counting is a lot of people will go to lengths to avoid math. With calorie counting, you usually need to estimate a reasonable intake goal, translate oz. to grams, fluid ounces vs. dry, learn logging tricks like '50 servings of a 1g food', dry pasta calories vs. cooked, recipe calories, etc. To the people it appeals to, it's no biggie. But most people don't like math or apps when it comes to their eating.0 -
I was referring to your false dichotomy: MFP and everything else. And the rest. I was not to your mom, obviously.
yeah, no.My mom has done multiple diets over the years: Jenny Craig, Ideal Protein, Visalus, a variation of the Bernstein diet, and a trainer she worked with for a short time gave her many different "detox" teas.
She's spent loads of money over the years, and ALWAYS gains the weight back, and then some. When I asked her why she doesn't try to do it on her own, her reply was "That's too hard".
I think laziness is a big factor for many people (I won't say all, because I'm sure some people have had success with some of these programs). They don't want to have to count, or think about it. They pay loads of money so that someone else will tell them what to eat & when.
Sorry, I'm not sure what part you disagree with? My mom and many others like her HAVE spent a lot of money over the years looking for a quick fix. And if you don't like that I think people are lazy, I did mention that I am not saying all people are.
I see that you've tried several times before (your profile) best of luck and I hope this time what you're doing works for you. cheers.0 -
One other con that comes immediately to mind: accounting for restaurant meals. This seems to be a challenge often mentioned here. Folks come up with good strategies...many end up looking like how I eat most days. Which is interesting.WW doesn't tell people they can eat all the fruit they want and it won't affect their weight loss. That is just a common opinion from people who glance at the plan and don't understand it. In effect, your produce for the day is pre-logged. You can skip eating it but you don't get to eat cookies instead.
The other day I added up the calories in my daily calcium chews, adult gummy vites and omega-3 supplements and it was close to 100 calories. I can log those items every single day, or I can just aim for say 1300 calories in food every day if I want my intake around 1400. Then I'm not tempted to skip the supplements in order to have some ice cream. That's all the 'free produce' thing is. I think it makes a lot of sense.
Anyway-- Different diet methods suit different people. Some of us rotate through a whole bunch of plans. Diet ADD, I guess. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. What's best for you today isn't best for everyone today.
One con people don't seem to mention much about calorie counting is a lot of people will go to lengths to avoid math. With calorie counting, you usually need to estimate a reasonable intake goal, translate oz. to grams, fluid ounces vs. dry, learn logging tricks like '50 servings of a 1g food', dry pasta calories vs. cooked, recipe calories, etc. To the people it appeals to, it's no biggie. But most people don't like math or apps when it comes to their eating.
One real "pro": if you eat a lot of pre-packaged convenience foods, you just have to scan. Which, then is interesting, in that it's easier to eat at chains...0 -
Probably for the same reasons people stop calorie counting and go back to an uncontrolled eating style: it gets boring, we get complacent, "there has to be something better out there," and, "I don't want to do something I have to do for the rest of my life."
I get complacent after doing well for awhile with calorie counting. Sometimes (but not often) I like to try something else for some variety, novelty, possibly to learn something about myself or my body, and to practice discipline. I just have the attention span of a kitten when it comes to doing most things the same way for awhile. If I can find it for free (the library or internet), can buy only food ingredients and not supplements or shakes, and can make it fit into my other dietary restrictions, it makes for a nice change of pace once in a while. (I have a low TDEE, so I tend to like things that are pre-calculated so I know that my calories are still managed, since of course it does come down to that.)
On that note, anyone have any ideas for a vegan bastardization of Paleo? Vegeo or something? Must have protein. :glasses:0 -
Google "eco Atkins". There's probably a pinterest page or some such thing.Probably for the same reasons people stop calorie counting and go back to an uncontrolled eating style: it gets boring, we get complacent, "there has to be something better out there," and, "I don't want to do something I have to do for the rest of my life."
I get complacent after doing well for awhile with calorie counting. Sometimes (but not often) I like to try something else for some variety, novelty, possibly to learn something about myself or my body, and to practice discipline. I just have the attention span of a kitten when it comes to doing most things the same way for awhile. If I can find it for free (the library or internet), can buy only food ingredients and not supplements or shakes, and can make it fit into my other dietary restrictions, it makes for a nice change of pace once in a while. (I have a low TDEE, so I tend to like things that are pre-calculated so I know that my calories are still managed, since of course it does come down to that.)
On that note, anyone have any ideas for a vegan bastardization of Paleo? Vegeo or something? Must have protein. :glasses:0 -
Low carb/Atkins isn't a fad. You can do low carb/Atkins without buying anything but the food itself.
Depends on who you talk to about it..lots start them but can't sustain them...they are hard to follow. I can't imagine eating very low carb...and I am not a big carb eater...
Low Carb and Atkins are not guarantees...you can gain weight while doing those particular eating plans...but you don't gain weight if you count calories and stay in maitenance or in a deficit...
Just as lots of people start MFP and do calorie counting and stop.
The key about eating low carb and Atkins are understanding why they work. Several people count carbs AND calories.
Both you and Sabine missed the point....
If you eat Atkins or Low Carb you can gain weight....
If you count calories and stay in a true deficit you won't gain weight...
regardless of sustainability....eating in a calorie deficit regardless of how it's done guarantee's weight loss...
you can't say that about Atkins or Low carb because you may not be in a calorie deficit.0 -
Sorry, on which post did I "miss the point"? There's a lot of posts here.Low carb/Atkins isn't a fad. You can do low carb/Atkins without buying anything but the food itself.
Depends on who you talk to about it..lots start them but can't sustain them...they are hard to follow. I can't imagine eating very low carb...and I am not a big carb eater...
Low Carb and Atkins are not guarantees...you can gain weight while doing those particular eating plans...but you don't gain weight if you count calories and stay in maitenance or in a deficit...
Just as lots of people start MFP and do calorie counting and stop.
The key about eating low carb and Atkins are understanding why they work. Several people count carbs AND calories.
Both you and Sabine missed the point....
If you eat Atkins or Low Carb you can gain weight....
If you count calories and stay in a true deficit you won't gain weight...
regardless of sustainability....eating in a calorie deficit regardless of how it's done guarantee's weight loss...
you can't say that about Atkins or Low carb because you may not be in a calorie deficit.
If it's yours, I replied only to one specific point: that people can't sustain it.
And yes, "true" deficit is key... works with any diet approach.0 -
Yes, restaurant meals (especially non-chains) and eating food someone else cooks in general are problems.One other con that comes immediately to mind: accounting for restaurant meals. This seems to be a challenge often mentioned here. Folks come up with good strategies...many end up looking like how I eat most days. Which is interesting.
One real "pro": if you eat a lot of pre-packaged convenience foods, you just have to scan. Which, then is interesting, in that it's easier to eat at chains...
Funny, I log but scan nothing. I guess I don't eat much pre-packaged, single serving food.
Another big con to calorie counting is people learn to fear under-eating, unlike most other diets. Some days I don't log til before bed and notice I'm at 1000 calories. I would've been happy with that and gone to bed under any other plan and just naturally eaten more the next day but with calorie counting there's a sense of "OH NO, MUST EAT MORE NOW!" As if people who don't count always hit some minimum or naturally eat within a tiny range on a '24 hour total' basis.0 -
Sorry, on which post did I "miss the point"? There's a lot of posts here.Low carb/Atkins isn't a fad. You can do low carb/Atkins without buying anything but the food itself.
Depends on who you talk to about it..lots start them but can't sustain them...they are hard to follow. I can't imagine eating very low carb...and I am not a big carb eater...
Low Carb and Atkins are not guarantees...you can gain weight while doing those particular eating plans...but you don't gain weight if you count calories and stay in maitenance or in a deficit...
Just as lots of people start MFP and do calorie counting and stop.
The key about eating low carb and Atkins are understanding why they work. Several people count carbs AND calories.
Both you and Sabine missed the point....
If you eat Atkins or Low Carb you can gain weight....
If you count calories and stay in a true deficit you won't gain weight...
regardless of sustainability....eating in a calorie deficit regardless of how it's done guarantee's weight loss...
you can't say that about Atkins or Low carb because you may not be in a calorie deficit.
If it's yours, I replied only to one specific point: that people can't sustain it.
And yes, "true" deficit is key... works with any diet approach.
That wasn't even the point of my post...it was added in to demonstrate those are fad diets as Most can't sustain it...can't...not won't...they choose not to sustain Calorie counting as in they won't...not that they can't...
The point that was missed was "true deficit" is what works regardless of the name on it...and that Atkins and Low carb diets can and do lead to weight gain.0 -
Pros and cons to all of it.
They say that the best success levels, long-term, are not made by counting calories or doing Adkins, etc. they say big Lifestyle Changes are the way to go. It makes a lot of sense, but isn't for everyone.0 -
I get your point...
Sorry, on which post did I "miss the point"? There's a lot of posts here.Low carb/Atkins isn't a fad. You can do low carb/Atkins without buying anything but the food itself.
Depends on who you talk to about it..lots start them but can't sustain them...they are hard to follow. I can't imagine eating very low carb...and I am not a big carb eater...
Low Carb and Atkins are not guarantees...you can gain weight while doing those particular eating plans...but you don't gain weight if you count calories and stay in maitenance or in a deficit...
Just as lots of people start MFP and do calorie counting and stop.
The key about eating low carb and Atkins are understanding why they work. Several people count carbs AND calories.
Both you and Sabine missed the point....
If you eat Atkins or Low Carb you can gain weight....
If you count calories and stay in a true deficit you won't gain weight...
regardless of sustainability....eating in a calorie deficit regardless of how it's done guarantee's weight loss...
you can't say that about Atkins or Low carb because you may not be in a calorie deficit.
If it's yours, I replied only to one specific point: that people can't sustain it.
And yes, "true" deficit is key... works with any diet approach.
That wasn't even the point of my post...it was added in to demonstrate those are fad diets as Most can't sustain it...can't...not won't...they choose not to sustain Calorie counting as in they won't...not that they can't...
The point that was missed was "true deficit" is what works regardless of the name on it...and that Atkins and Low carb diets can and do lead to weight gain.0 -
I researched a bunch of diets when I started, I have tried calorie counting in the past and I was always hungry, and kept trying to cheat, as I had a bottomless pit of a stomach.
From research the different diets a common theme I came across was while being in keto it suppresses your appetite (atkins is a common keto diet)... This was the only way I knew how I could eat a reasonable amount of calories, by reducing my appetite. So I decided I would give it a week.. First 2 days I was absolutely starving. On day 5 my appetite literally disappeared. I would eat just a plain salad for lunch and be full. A week earlier this would barely suffice as an appetizer.
I have actually been struggling eating enough calories. Today I only ate 1400 calories so far, I will probably get another 200-300 calories in, but that is still significantly lower than I am suppose to eat... I dropped approximately 15 lbs in the first week (I know iut says only 5, but I didn't track first week, because first week was pretty much all water weight)
I don't miss sugar at all, but I do admit it sucks not eating grains and starches. I will keep with a ketogenic diet until I get close to goal weight, then at that point in time I may try slowly converting to regular foods, or at least up carb count.. But that is far in the future so not worrying about that yet.
Nice thing about keto is you can eat a bunch of bacon, butter, creams, oils, basically any fat. 70% of my calories come from fat. However <5% comes from carbs. Yesterday and today were semi cheat days with carbs because I made some smoked salmon yesterday for a bunch of people and had it brined in maple syrup and brown sugar., and had left overs today. Still have a bit left over (another meals worth) and once that done back to no sugar.0 -
When you get closer to goal, perhaps transition via Atkins maintenance phase... probably a safe bet. Good luck and congrats on your loss.I researched a bunch of diets when I started, I have tried calorie counting in the past and I was always hungry, and kept trying to cheat, as I had a bottomless pit of a stomach.
From research the different diets a common theme I came across was while being in keto it suppresses your appetite (atkins is a common keto diet)... This was the only way I knew how I could eat a reasonable amount of calories, by reducing my appetite. So I decided I would give it a week.. First 2 days I was absolutely starving. On day 5 my appetite literally disappeared. I would eat just a plain salad for lunch and be full. A week earlier this would barely suffice as an appetizer.
I have actually been struggling eating enough calories. Today I only ate 1400 calories so far, I will probably get another 200-300 calories in, but that is still significantly lower than I am suppose to eat... I dropped approximately 15 lbs in the first week (I know iut says only 5, but I didn't track first week, because first week was pretty much all water weight)
I don't miss sugar at all, but I do admit it sucks not eating grains and starches. I will keep with a ketogenic diet until I get close to goal weight, then at that point in time I may try slowly converting to regular foods, or at least up carb count.. But that is far in the future so not worrying about that yet.
Nice thing about keto is you can eat a bunch of bacon, butter, creams, oils, basically any fat. 70% of my calories come from fat. However <5% comes from carbs. Yesterday and today were semi cheat days with carbs because I made some smoked salmon yesterday for a bunch of people and had it brined in maple syrup and brown sugar., and had left overs today. Still have a bit left over (another meals worth) and once that done back to no sugar.0 -
Maybe it's because people feel like if they spend money on it, it feels like an "investment" and they're more likely to stick to it?0
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Yeah that's what im sure ill do. Once I get about 10lb from gmoal ill slowly start upping carb count and introducing new foods]When you get closer to goal, perhaps transition via Atkins maintenance phase... probably a safe bet. Good luck and congrats on your loss.0 -
We may be at the same place just now, but we have all taken different routes to get here...
But what I don't understand, is why so many ask questions like "I want to try diet X, but I don't like/can't eat food Y, can I have Z instead", "I'm hungry, what can I eat", "can you eat A when you're on diet B" - do a bit of research, choose your diet based on your needs, not because it's "cool". If you're not going to follow the diet to the T
, then why bother in the first place? When making all those alterations, it's not going to be the same diet, and extremely complicated as well. It's easier, and liberating, to make your own diet (or meal plan, if you like) from scratch, in my opinion. 0 -
i do a low carb diet and when i first started i didnt calorie count and lost heaps of weight. idk, worked for me.0
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OP: I just reviewed your posts.
Best of luck on your newly found vegan journey. :drinker:0 -
I'm completely new at dieting. Started calorie counting about 7 weeks ago, learned about caloric deficit, BMR etc and started the gym. Easy, and I've lost more weight than I ever thought I would in this time.
Which now makes me think, what's the point in any other diet? Slim fast or herbalife in particular, or even the Atkins diet or other fad diets? Why spend loads of money when all you need to do is be in deficit?
Because most people want a quick fix and don't want to work out. Most of those diets promise weight loss without the need for exercise.0 -
:laugh:I'm completely new at dieting. Started calorie counting about 7 weeks ago, learned about caloric deficit, BMR etc and started the gym. Easy, and I've lost more weight than I ever thought I would in this time.
Which now makes me think, what's the point in any other diet? Slim fast or herbalife in particular, or even the Atkins diet or other fad diets? Why spend loads of money when all you need to do is be in deficit?
Because most people want a quick fix and don't want to work out. Most of those diets promise weight loss without the need for exercise.0 -
Or maybe we like having our diet work for us instead of against us. Relying on exercise to maintain your weight is a recipe for failure -- something always comes up. Sickness, injury, working longer hours, moving, having a baby -- you know, life. Creating an eating plan that's enjoyable that you can maintain with as little effort as possible is absolutely key for long term success. You're deluding yourself if you think differently.I'm completely new at dieting. Started calorie counting about 7 weeks ago, learned about caloric deficit, BMR etc and started the gym. Easy, and I've lost more weight than I ever thought I would in this time.
Which now makes me think, what's the point in any other diet? Slim fast or herbalife in particular, or even the Atkins diet or other fad diets? Why spend loads of money when all you need to do is be in deficit?
Because most people want a quick fix and don't want to work out. Most of those diets promise weight loss without the need for exercise.
Exercise for health and pleasure, not so you can eat enough food in order not to be hungry. My opinion, of course.0 -
Seems like the typical people that find anything to bash low carb diets. Surprise surprise. Only can have a calorie deficit the way they want you to, otherwise it's wrong.
OP- live and let live. As long as those people don't harp on how you are dieting, the. Let them waste their time/money, but maybe to them it's not. The missing link for some is why it works...calorie deficit. MFP is just a tool to make it easier to know if you're in a calorie deficit.0 -
Other "diets" provide the hard work done for you for ONE LOW LOW PRICE. It doesn't take into effect someone's personal calorie or nutritional needs. It's generally a giant deficit that sees a huge drop in weight right away; instant gratification. Calorie counting takes trial and error, isn't always accurate, and can be slower.
For someone who's just starting out who hasn't learned much about nutrition, exercising, or calorie deficits, which looks like the easiest, more gratifying, and fastest route to take?0
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