Are calories just calories?
Replies
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At some point, we have to consume vitamins, right? I agree that macros are important and I do my best to track them (really, to make sure I get enough protein), but I've become so consumed with that before that I've gone weeks at a time without eating a salad or fruit or something (b/c rice, beans and chicken are cheap enough). Is there a reason people take multivitamins? Isn't getting vitamins / micronutrients from natural food sources an important thing, too?
I agree with you, OP. Regardless of what anyone's goal is, I think there's more to life than being under a calorie goal or eating the correct ratio of macronutrients.
Yes you are right about that. BUT YOU"RE NOT LISTENING.
No one here is talking about "health" when they say a calorie is a calorie.
Your also missing the OP's point. Her point is telling people to eat whatever they want in their calorie goal is not necessarily good advice.
Especially for those of us who are Diabetic, Pre-diabetic, Hypoglycemic, high cholesterol, high blood pressure etc (a growing part of the population and epidemic among the obese.) telling us to eat our 1500 calories in cake and potato chips is not only wrong its dangerous.
If you are diabetic, and eat 1500 calories in potato chips and sugar you're a damn fool. The "calorie is a calorie" statement usually revolves around dispelling the myth that carbs prevent weight loss, or that one should not eat sugar or processed foods.
It's already been done in this thread several times, and the OP implied it.0 -
BE SMART WITH WHAT YOU PUT IN YOUR MOUTH
i bet you say that to all the girls...
I do....
it's how I get them to drop their panties. :noway: :noway: :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
If you are diabetic, and eat 1500 calories in potato chips and sugar you're a damn fool. The "calorie is a calorie" statement usually revolves around dispelling the myth that carbs prevent weight loss, or that one should not eat sugar or processed foods.
It's already been done in this thread several times, and the OP implied it.
I am thinking candidate for a Darwin award.
if someone wishes to be stupid, please hurry up and do more of it...remove yourself from the gene pool and do us all a favor0 -
I do not believe a calorie is a calorie. For example, 140 calories of a Soda vs. 140 calories of almonds, the almonds provide you with fiber and healthy fat that do not trigger your liver produce insulin which generates fat. It has been my experience you'll also feel much better eating almonds instead of drinking soda or a sugary snack.
Honestly, this seems like a willful misunderstanding.
No one says food is food (well, except people who have too little of it, maybe). Certainly no one says a soda is an almond, and no one says it doesn't matter what you eat. And clearly no one recommends that people eat 1200 calories of soda or sugar or whatever the strawman is today. Nor do I think you should eat 1200 calories of broccoli, even if you could manage it. You'd be failing basic nutrition then too, and that's not a slam on broccoli.
What a calorie is a calorie means is that for weight loss purposes only, in theory what determines whether you lose is how many calories you eat. You can be a "tiny eater" and yet eat high calorie stuff and gain, which seems to surprise some overweight people I know, and you can eat "clean" (meaning whole foods or whatever) and gain if your whole foods include lots of calories in total, again like some people I know, and like me in the past (although thank the Lord I never used the obnoxious term "clean" in that way).
What it does not mean, again, is that there are no differences between foods or that it makes no difference for any purpose what you eat. Obviously, at least for many or most people, it affects how you feel and how sustainable a way of eating is, and it may affect overall health (though perhaps not as much as some people think).
Rather than assuming that people who state the basic truth that a calorie is a calorie when it comes to weight loss eat McDonald's fries exclusively, why not talk to them about what they eat? I kind of think that a lot of this is recent converts to "clean" eating (or in some cases actual, sensible, nutrition-based eating) who seem to assume that everyone else around here eats the way they used to.0 -
Well whether you eat "clean" or not is irrelevant. You can eat super clean (whatever that is) and still weight 400 pounds. You can eat like a crazed kid in a candy store and be thin as a rail. It really is all about calories in VS calories out.
No one is done a disservice with this advice. People eat what they eat. If I want to encourage someone to lose weight I will beat the calories in VS calories out. To go any further risks overwhelming him/her. To start in weight loss simply keep eating what you have always eaten just lower your intake. It is really that simple.
Once a person starts down the road to weight loss and is seeing success THEN is the time to discuss nutrition. I am sure many will disagree with me but what I am saying is that the proper approach is to FIRST get the individual into a deficit and once that is accomplished then start the nutrition conversation.
For the record I do not eat "clean", I have never eaten "clean" and likely never will. In fact I had ice cream last night and chocolate candy after my oatmeal this morning. I also drink a pot or two of coffee a day. I also run or swim every day. I am 54 years old and am in better physical condition than most eighteen year olds. No I don't have washboard abs. No one will ever change my way of thinking to "clean" eating and if I thought I needed to eat "clean" to lose weight I would still weight 265 pounds.0 -
You can look good eating McDonald's, but you'll be like a house with brand new siding but bad plumbing and wiring.0
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BE SMART WITH WHAT YOU PUT IN YOUR MOUTH
i bet you say that to all the girls...
I do....
it's how I get them to drop their panties. :noway: :noway: :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
There no gif for cartmen and butters talking about what to put in mouths.0 -
Of course a calorie is a calorie, because that's just a unit of energy. It's like saying "Is a watt just a watt?" because a 20 watt bulb might be enough to light your refrigerator, but not an entire room.
For weight loss alone, a calorie is a calorie. For health and performance, where those calories come from matters.0 -
BE SMART WITH WHAT YOU PUT IN YOUR MOUTH
i bet you say that to all the girls...
I do....
it's how I get them to drop their panties. :noway: :noway: :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
There no gif for cartmen and butters talking about what to put in mouths.
That gif was posted several times last night in the second part of a similar thread.
Eventually that thread was (at least part 2) was pulled.0 -
You can look good eating McDonald's, but you'll be like a house with brand new siding but bad plumbing and wiring.
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Like I stated in a previous post I am new to MFP, but I am not all that new to fitness and nutrition. Well, I am new enough to nutrition and clean eating that I needed to get a nutritionist to help me gain weight in a good way
Anyway I see quite a few post were a reply is "as long as you are under your calories it doesn't matter what you eat" or words very similar to that. I am sorry, but I will have to politely disagree with those statements. I think it is a disservice to people starting out to make a statement along those lines. Not all calories are the same. A thousand calories from say sugar are not the same a 1000 calories from a healhty source. Maybe I am all wet, but to me, it is vitally important as to what calories we put in our bodies compared to just the amount.
Now don't jump all over me about being holier than thou or 100% clean eater, I am far from it. I just see those types of statements and it concerns me than conflicting messages to folks just starting out.
Sorry for the rant.
I totally agree! There are ways to eat that are much healthier and still stick to a calorie goal. Weather you're trying to gain or lose weight.. the WHAT you put in your body matters just as much as HOW MUCH.
Especially for those of us who are Diabetic, Pre Diabetic, Hypoglycemic, high cholestoral etc (a growing part of the population..duh) telling us to eat our 1500 calories in cake and potato chips is not only wrong its dangerous.
Who has ever said that?
Now we're looking at the whole debate in extremes (as usually), so I fully expect shenanigans and gifs.0 -
OP - basically yes.
No one just eats 1000 calories of one thing.
In terms of weight loss and general health - eat variety, et you veggies but there is no need to cut out any one thing.
Generally speaking, calories are just calories. There are a few cases were exceptions need to be made but they are rare.0 -
Like I stated in a previous post I am new to MFP, but I am not all that new to fitness and nutrition. Well, I am new enough to nutrition and clean eating that I needed to get a nutritionist to help me gain weight in a good way
Anyway I see quite a few post were a reply is "as long as you are under your calories it doesn't matter what you eat" or words very similar to that. I am sorry, but I will have to politely disagree with those statements. I think it is a disservice to people starting out to make a statement along those lines. Not all calories are the same. A thousand calories from say sugar are not the same a 1000 calories from a healhty source. Maybe I am all wet, but to me, it is vitally important as to what calories we put in our bodies compared to just the amount.
Now don't jump all over me about being holier than thou or 100% clean eater, I am far from it. I just see those types of statements and it concerns me than conflicting messages to folks just starting out.
Sorry for the rant.
I totally agree! There are ways to eat that are much healthier and still stick to a calorie goal. Weather you're trying to gain or lose weight.. the WHAT you put in your body matters just as much as HOW MUCH.
Especially for those of us who are Diabetic, Pre Diabetic, Hypoglycemic, high cholestoral etc (a growing part of the population..duh) telling us to eat our 1500 calories in cake and potato chips is not only wrong its dangerous.
Who has ever said that?
Now we're looking at the whole debate in extremes (as usually), so I fully expect shenanigans and gifs.
1500 calories of cake and chips. Please when you debate use more believable information. Debates using extremes usually turn out to suck.0 -
BE SMART WITH WHAT YOU PUT IN YOUR MOUTH
i bet you say that to all the girls...
I do....
it's how I get them to drop their panties. :noway: :noway: :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
But if they've got their mouth open you don't need to worry about their panties, surely?! :bigsmile:0 -
BE SMART WITH WHAT YOU PUT IN YOUR MOUTH
i bet you say that to all the girls...
I do....
it's how I get them to drop their panties. :noway: :noway: :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
But if they've got their mouth open you don't need to worry about their panties, surely?! :bigsmile:
It adds to the excitement. 0 -
Here is a good article:
http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/04/10/calories-dont-matter/
That article was awful, the logic is flawed, no studies or references, and ends in an ad for his detox program. C'mon! Just awful.
Well here is another link you can sort through that will be educational in the edeavors and knowledge to give the right adives. Which I would recommend you not give. First be informative before you say something about clean eating. The term Clean eating is going back to the way you should eat since we all eat like crap at times. So dont distiquish the term based on flawed thoughts and advise..
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/
This will give you the dumb down version and also lead you to other research from people in the field.
Also use google
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=Peer+reviewed+medical+paper+of+calories+don't+matter+
Just my thoughts.. For the OP please do what you feel is right for you and I would at least get some blood work done to make sure you will not be doing more harm than good by what you eat or need to eat.0 -
Yep, calorie is a calorie when it comes to weight loss0
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Unfortunately, you are mixing up different topics. And everyone agreeing with you is also confused.
Health and weight loss. They are distinctly different things. This is primarily a weight loss site. So, for weight loss, what you eat doesn't matter one iota. Just maintain a calorie deficit, and you will lose.
To be heathy, however, there are many things to consider. But, please don't talk about clean eating. It is completely meaningless. A well-rounded diet, including cheeseburgers, beer, and ice cream is well within the bounds of being heathy.
Fat, carbs, and protein are the essential macronutrients our body needs. Eat those in the right combination, along with ensuring you are getting your micronutrients too, and you will be healthy. So, in essence, it doesn't matter what you eat if you achieve this. You can do this by including red wine and cheese, and McD's. Clean is a silly way to describe a healthy diet. It misses some important elements of what being healthy means.
yep
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[img]http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/ksy1969/Pics for Forums/ed1e6498-53c1-4f22-85f6-b912c158d667_zpsc4d9c03f.png[/img]
^^^ This0 -
Here is a good article:
http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/04/10/calories-dont-matter/
That article was awful, the logic is flawed, no studies or references, and ends in an ad for his detox program. C'mon! Just awful.
Well here is another link you can sort through that will be educational in the edeavors and knowledge to give the right adives. Which I would recommend you not give. First be informative before you say something about clean eating. The term Clean eating is going back to the way you should eat since we all eat like crap at times. So dont distiquish the term based on flawed thoughts and advise..
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/
This will give you the dumb down version and also lead you to other research from people in the field.
Also use google
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=Peer+reviewed+medical+paper+of+calories+don't+matter+
Just my thoughts.. For the OP please do what you feel is right for you and I would at least get some blood work done to make sure you will not be doing more harm than good by what you eat or need to eat.
Great article. With links to reputable references and studies, no less. :-)0 -
Now don't jump all over me about being holier than thou or 100% clean eater, I am far from it. I just see those types of statements and it concerns me than conflicting messages to folks just starting out.
I agree. Sure in a lab a calorie is a calorie, for the most part. And yes, for weight loss alone, a calorie deficit is what is needed to lose weight.
But for satiety, sanity, health and fitness the statement is not true.
For determining how many calories one should eat for weight loss, it's often not true. The exact same diet, exact same calories, will do different things in different bodies.
So, yeah, calories are just calories if we are talking word definitions. But for health, fitness and weight loss, it's a misleading statement.
Edited: Oops! I just realized I typed surplus where I meant deficit.0 -
Here is a good article:
http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/04/10/calories-dont-matter/
That article was awful, the logic is flawed, no studies or references, and ends in an ad for his detox program. C'mon! Just awful.
Well here is another link you can sort through that will be educational in the edeavors and knowledge to give the right adives. Which I would recommend you not give. First be informative before you say something about clean eating. The term Clean eating is going back to the way you should eat since we all eat like crap at times. So dont distiquish the term based on flawed thoughts and advise..
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/
This will give you the dumb down version and also lead you to other research from people in the field.
Also use google
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=Peer+reviewed+medical+paper+of+calories+don't+matter+
Just my thoughts.. For the OP please do what you feel is right for you and I would at least get some blood work done to make sure you will not be doing more harm than good by what you eat or need to eat.
Great article. With links to reputable references and studies, no less. :-)
Your welcome. I just hate some of these threads where facts on clean eating or calories in and calories out is something of a fad which its not, it is the way we should be looking at weight loss and health as one cycle for our bodies. I like what one poster put as to the loss may be there but the wiring will be flawed (Or something to that nature). As adults we have to think and support each other in the right way or then we become more out of whack on flawed advice and knowing truth from falseness ourselves.
In general this is a weight loss site but we have to do it in a healthy way also.0 -
I think you misunderstand. It's possible to lose weight and eat junk. Healthy is a broad term. For me it is defined for my by my doctor and nutritionist. Low sugar and fat. High protein and lots of fresh fruit and vegetables. I am diabetic so I do have to watch fast food and processed foods. These foods contain higher salt, calories, fat, sugar, and carbs. We all need to share our experience and advice in a non judgemental way. I have tried to eat clean. Since I consume splendid. , I am not a clean eater. I am trying every day to make better choices and to eat better. It is an ongoing battle. I eat more organic food in last year than in the past I also eat more home prepared meals. One thing I need to work on is when I eat. I work 2 jobs and help my husband with his job on the weekend. It's hard to find time to go to the gym. I am making an effort to go every day. I also stop at at for lunch. I'll eat a half sandwich of ham and Swiss on wheat. Hard boiled egg, cheese and an Apple. Not organic. Probably not even clean. It is healthy, right amount of calories and carbs. It also taste good. I also tried to switch to tea instead of diet soda. So it's better for me than say a diet soda , chicken sandwich and fruit from chick film a. Also cheaper.0
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Stole this link from another thread: http://www.healthylivingheavylifting.com/the-perils-of-clean-eating/
And this one as well: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/0 -
Now don't jump all over me about being holier than thou or 100% clean eater, I am far from it. I just see those types of statements and it concerns me than conflicting messages to folks just starting out.
I agree. Sure in a lab a calorie is a calorie, for the most part. And yes, for weight loss alone, a calorie surplus is what is needed to lose weight.
But for satiety, sanity, health and fitness the statement is not true.
For determining how many calories one should eat for weight loss, it's often not true. The exact same diet, exact same calories, will do different things in different bodies.
So, yeah, calories are just calories if we are talking word definitions. But for health, fitness and weight loss, it's a misleading statement.
Hmm. I don't think MFP asks you all the other factors to consider like how is your stress right now. MFP seems to be working though right.0 -
[img]http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/ksy1969/Pics for Forums/ed1e6498-53c1-4f22-85f6-b912c158d667_zpsc4d9c03f.png[/img]
This guy lost 27 lbs eating only Twinkies
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
in respect to weight loss a calorie is a calorie. Overall good health is a different conversation.
Would I want to do it this way? No......0 -
This guy lost 27 lbs eating only Twinkies
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
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Sorry if all this has been thrown about on other post(s). I got that with the Dexter shot. We probably ought to let this topic die a sudden dead since it has been covered numerous times in the past. Admin if you want to lock or delete my post you won't hurt my feelings. Beating a dead horse serves no purpose but to pick the scab off old wounds. Since I am new to MFP I glanced thru previous posts looking for something like this but I guess I missed it.
I know about units of energy etc... and that technically a calorie is a calorie no matter where is comes from. My concern came from seeing replies about just staying below the calorie goal. To me that is in no way sage advice for the novice. I guess that , in my mind, there is more to losing/ gaining weight than just cutting/ adding calories. But, cutting/ adding calories is a starting point to a healthier life. Just don't think that it is all that is necessary for a healthy life.
Unless I am completely off base, in the majority of cases, if somebody is trying to lose or gain weight they are typically doing so to get healthier. And pointing out the 1000 calorie example was just that an example
In one of the replies it was mentioned this is primarily a weight loss forum so I am sorry if I over stepped my bounds.
"Just my thoughts. For the OP please do what you feel is right for you and I would at least get some blood work done to make sure you will not be doing more harm than good by what you eat or need to eat." < Thanks for the concern, but I eat clean and don't have any glaring health issues a side from from being blessed with Atrial Fib and semi-high colesterol (due to my genes, thanks family :grumble: ) As my cardiologist says "A heart like a race horse, it just receives screwed up signals".
Thanks for all the replies and again I am sorry for posting a numerously posted topic.0 -
Now don't jump all over me about being holier than thou or 100% clean eater, I am far from it. I just see those types of statements and it concerns me than conflicting messages to folks just starting out.
I agree. Sure in a lab a calorie is a calorie, for the most part. And yes, for weight loss alone, a calorie surplus is what is needed to lose weight.
But for satiety, sanity, health and fitness the statement is not true.
For determining how many calories one should eat for weight loss, it's often not true. The exact same diet, exact same calories, will do different things in different bodies.
So, yeah, calories are just calories if we are talking word definitions. But for health, fitness and weight loss, it's a misleading statement.
Yes I agree that it is misleading at times for people. Also I ahve done some other research and hopefully some of these people can see this.
ANCEL KEYS STUDY
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0816651612/104-0776638-0750307?SubscriptionId=1N9AHEAQ2F6SVD97BE02
A link to discuss the study in general terms
http://fourhourworkweek.com/2008/02/25/the-science-of-fat-loss-why-a-calorie-isnt-always-a-calorie/0 -
Nor do I think you should eat 1200 calories of broccoli, even if you could manage it.
Challenge accepted!
I agree about the willful misunderstanding part too. That or someone thinks a lot of people are REALLY incapable of doing basic information gathering. Is there really this mass of people out there trying to lose weight who have no concept of the difference between a steak, potato, milk, twinkie etc? Really?!?0
This discussion has been closed.
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