Deprived vs Rewarded... which is it really?

I used to think of food as "good" or "bad" when I first started. It was easier to think that the foods that made me fat were the cause and not the actual problem, which was simply overconsumption.

What I've learned from my year on MFP and researching is that. Yes, nutrient dense whole foods are great. They leave you satisfied longer, they are typically less calorie dense they contain vital vitamins and minerals. These are still a staple in my diet.

BUT once my nutrient needs are met, what is wrong with ice cream or pizza, cookies or chips? Nothing. As long as I'm fueling my body properly, getting my bodies nutrient needs, there is NOTHING wrong with these foods. That's where the gray area is in all this. I love food. Always will.

I don't need to punish myself by being a martyr of weight loss by abstaining from foods I enjoy. Instead, I portion them into my day and move on with life...not worrying about what's "good" or "bad". When we put a moral value on food, we give it power over us. I refuse to live my life like that.

All of this.

If you have trouble with not being able to stop then I think you should absolutely work on controlling your access to the foods that cause problems for you. But I think the ultimate goal should be to work foods that you enjoy but that are less nutrient dense into the context of an overall healthy diet with appropriate calorie and macro goals.

Also you don't need a "detox"-- that's just a buzzword:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-detox-scam-how-to-spot-it-and-how-to-avoid-it/

I used to think of food as "good" or "bad" when I first started. It was easier to think that the foods that made me fat were the cause and not the actual problem, which was simply overconsumption.

What I've learned from my year on MFP and researching is that. Yes, nutrient dense whole foods are great. They leave you satisfied longer, they are typically less calorie dense they contain vital vitamins and minerals. These are still a staple in my diet.

BUT once my nutrient needs are met, what is wrong with ice cream or pizza, cookies or chips? Nothing. As long as I'm fueling my body properly, getting my bodies nutrient needs, there is NOTHING wrong with these foods. That's where the gray area is in all this. I love food. Always will.

I don't need to punish myself by being a martyr of weight loss by abstaining from foods I enjoy. Instead, I portion them into my day and move on with life...not worrying about what's "good" or "bad". When we put a moral value on food, we give it power over us. I refuse to live my life like that.

This should be a sticky.
SO WELL SAID!

Thanks for your feedback.

I read the article about detoxes and have to say, I completely agree. Just to clarify, this 'detox' was more about finding out if I have any intolerances, allergies or addictions, and I also saw it as a way to kick start me back into tracking my food and exercise, because this worked for me before. The programme I'm on came with no kit or pills or suggestions of coffee enemas (WHAT?!?!). It's about eating real food. As that article said, "When it comes to simple dietary changes, there’s little evidence of harm. Eating more quinoa and kale, and less processed and refined foods is reasonable dietary advice for everyone." I truly believe my stomach and liver and kidneys do a fantastic job - the job they were meant to do. So this detox, for me certainly, wasn't about ridding myself of toxins.

So confession time: I do want to lose some pounds and inches. And I know from experience that the most effective way to do this is through diet [not dieting, but just what I eat and how much of it]. The way I eat has to be sustainable. But the way I was eating didn't mesh with my desire to be less fat and tired and generally dissatisfied with myself. So I need to make some changes - replacing the less nutritious with something more nutritious, filling and satisfying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'll never eat crap again - no way is that sustainable for me.

But are you all saying that you never have to talk yourself out of eating something (or more of something) because you know it's just not the best thing for you?

Ah okay. The term you're looking for is "elimination diet" then, not detox.

And no, what I'm saying is that I don't label foods good or bad (or crap. No food is crap). Any food can fit into my goals. When I think about eating something I ask myself whether it's going to help me reach my goal that day. Usually my goals are to get enough protein, enough fat, a few servings of fruit/veg, and have something that's just enjoyable. So I pre-log and I start with the top of the list and work my way down. Once I've hit all my goals I usually have about 300 calories left over to have something that doesn't offer a ton of nutritional benefit but which is good for my mental health. I still consider those foods good for me, just in a different sense.

So a cupcake might not fit my goals today and so I might not eat it. But that doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Another day it might fit just fine and if so I'll have it. It isn't "crap" it's just food.

Well...

I love reduced fat Cheez-its...love...love...love those little square orange things...I talk to them sometimes...such as...

I will eat only one serving...they win...I eat more...more...more...

It is the one food that I TRY not to buy...they win on occasion..not often...but sometimes...when I get cocky and think that I am finally the one in control...mistake...bad mistake...

So...

When I first started losing weight I knew that they were the one thing that I needed to not keep in the house...however...

I would go to the grocery store...would stay out of the reduced fat Cheez-it aisle...but...

They would call out to me..."YOU FORGOT US"..."OVER HERE"..."DON"T LEAVE US"...

I would fight back..."STAY BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE"..."STAY AWAY FROM ME"..."NO!!!!"...

I don't know OP...I didn't think of food as the punishment...however...I used the results of me over-consuming as a means of punishment.

Food is just food...some more nutritious than others...it can all fit...it is all about choices...

I swear though...reduced fat Cheez-its...those little square orange guys...can talk...and they can be pretty convincing...

:laugh: :flowerforyou:

***

It's exactly that conversation that @Annie has with her Cheez-Its that I'm curious about. She's right, it's all about choices. But what motivates you to make one choice over another when it comes to food? Is it the nutritional value, the pleasure it brings you or something else? And how does that conversation go in your head?

***

For me...it is the "something else".

That something else is about me taking back control of my life. The food...exercise...losing weight...they are all just a means of me controlling the things that I can and letting go of the things that I can't.

I am not perfect...I have my moments when I listen to the Cheez-its...I give in some days. Maybe some here on this site are perfect...they are in complete control...I applaud those people. However...I am not...I am okay with that because...I am in control enough to get up the next day and...start all over.

@ILiftHeavyAcr, you mentioned you pre-log. And it sounds like you don't log the cupcakes first (top down). But if you have some room left for a little something, then there's no guilt and all pleasure from your "mentally healthful" foods. In that case, do you think of it as a reward or is it just a pleasant way to round off your calorie intake for the day? What happens if you get a hankering for some ice cream but you've met your quota for the day? Do you allow it for the satisfaction it brings? Or are you just able to say, "Nope, you've had your lot for the day - try again tomorrow."?

I pretty much always have room-- I make sure of it by tweaking everything the night before. I don't think of it as a reward-- it's just food that I enjoy. If I've already met my calorie goal I don't have it. But that's the nice thing about pre-logging-- the only time that really happens is if I've got everything all planned out and then someone surprises me with lunch or something. But if that happens I just leave it in the freezer or cupboard or whatever. It's never really been a problem.

Do you ever try to talk yourself out of unwise food choices and actually win the argument? If so, what are your tactics?

I do, but I don't really have any tactics to share. I think my willpower is just stronger on some days than others.

I am confused about "Rewarded."

Food is not good or bad. It just IS

How can it be spoken about as a reward ? ?

Money is not good or bad, but I enjoy a monetary reward. You can reward yourself with anything.

But are you all saying that you never have to talk yourself out of eating something (or more of something) because you know it's just not the best thing for you?

Personally, sure I do, but it's just about whether it fits in my goals for the day or not. It's pretty similar to what's been said in this thread already, but I generally have a pretty good idea of what I'm going to have for my meals, which necessarily will include a certain amount of protein and vegetables and so on. I don't prelog, but I can pretty much tell at this point. So then I work in something that's more dessert-like, like ice cream (which has been my favorite through the summer, anyway), and have that too, in a quantity that fits. If I don't have the calories, I don't have it, but it's no hardship since I'll have it soon enough.

If I'm offered something at work, say, that isn't part of my plan (like someone brings in really good cannoli), I figure out if I can make it fit (having it instead of the ice cream or--if it's more calories and really worth it, by having less or none of my planned dinner potatoes or some such), then I might do that. Or I'll decide only to have a small bit of it. The idea is just that I shouldn't overeat or end up with inadequate nutrition for the day because of it, although on occasion a day will go over (I usually plan this and have lower days the rest of the week) or I'll have a less nutritionally sound day, of course, because that's life. It's just about having that be a rare exception rather than doing it all the time. (And since my issue has been emotional eating, not ever justifying it as a way to make things better or because I feel bad or the like. If I feel bad I try to do something else to make it better.)

One way in which this is easier for me is that I usually try not to eat other than at meal times (my dessert in the evening is basically like an extension of dinner), so it's not like I'm constantly thinking about whether or not to eat something. It's more a matter of whether to switch out one item for another, and if so they have to be comparable enough that it doesn't sacrifice my goals at the end of the day for veggies and protein and calories, etc., overall.

I'm sure everyone has their ways of doing this, though. Mine are just what work for me.

An article on this topic came up on my newsfeed today... Apparently you CAN retrain your brain to want some foods less. Unfortunately this article doesn't say how: https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/2014/09/train-your-brain-to-crave-healthy-foods-yes-its-possible/?utm_source=mfp&utm_medium=Facebook

I think you do it just as you suggested - you talk yourself out of the bad stuff. Sure, you will still want it, but you will also learn to love other more healthy things along the way and just perhaps you'll want it less. Or at least resistance will be easier. And it's really all about balancing the good and bad*.

*I don't care about the semantic argument of good / bad. Call it what you want - junk, bad, not nutrient dense, treats - it's still the stuff we need to eat sparingly.