Calorie Target for Muscle Gain?

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I'm trying to add some lean muscle mass after having lost 30 pounds using MFP. I do regular strength training and have gotten quite toned. However, I'm having some trouble adding 'bulk' to my muscles after months of regular workouts.I've set my MFP goal to "Maintain Current Weight" and I stick to the calorie target religiously. But am I supposed to be using a "Gain Weight" target?

Does anyone in this position know what my calorie target should be if I'm trying to gain 1-2 pounds of muscle per month?

Thanks.
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Replies

  • Wolffeathers
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    Part of it is how much weight you use. Adding muscle mass means using weights that you can only do between 3 and 12 reps per set. More than 12 is really cardo, less than three is going to be mainly strenght. I've found webMD has a lot of useful articles on weight lifting, both to tone and to add. Check there, they may even have one that you're looking for.
  • dave4d
    dave4d Posts: 1,155 Member
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    Everybody will gain muscle in different ways. There are various body types, and some have a really hard time gaining muscle, but lose fat easily. That's the category I'm in. It takes time, and you may have to exceed your calories to put on muscle, which will also put on fat. I would recommend going to some bodybuilding sites to look up some articles on "bulking". Good luck.
  • CHeMoTaCTiC
    CHeMoTaCTiC Posts: 41 Member
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    Thanks. I'm starting to convince myself that part of the problem is that I'm not eating enough calories to significantly build muscle. I think I might try adding 200-300 calories a day to my intake in the form of a protein drink. I currently drink them when I exercise, but I always stay within my 'maintain weight' calorie target regardless. Maybe if I go outside my target range and give my body those extra calories in the form of protein, it will help. Does that make sense?
  • mideon_696
    mideon_696 Posts: 770 Member
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    ok. my 2 cents. if your training hard enough, and im going to assume that you are, then you are not eating enough. OR, your not eating at the right time.
    Nutrional timing is just as important as qulaity when trying to pack on some muscle.

    When you finish your workout you should be smashing your post workout shake, which should be full of protein, and also full of good carbs.

    then half an hour after you want to be eating a good meal. when i say good i mean lean protein and carb balanced. about 300cals. then again about 1 hour later and again just before the 3 hour mark. all totalling about 1000-1200 cal's. the rest of your calories, as you would know would be spread accross the day 2.5 - 3 hours apart in balance portions. each containing protein. Aim for 200 or so above true maintence. check progress in a few weeks, and adjust accordingly.

    "the window" is hugely important. So if you train at night, you need to make sure you have 2.5 - 3 hours after your workout to fit this eating in. If you train, then drink a shake, the go to bed or whatever, your wasting your chance.

    the window should be your focus nutritionally if you want to maximise your reults from your efforts!

    check out www.t-nation.com
    some really good articles about this stuff on there.

    On top on nutrition, remember, progression progression, progression.

    check out that site.
  • mideon_696
    mideon_696 Posts: 770 Member
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    that was more a dollar than it was 2cents, haha
  • mideon_696
    mideon_696 Posts: 770 Member
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    also, if you just interested in gaining mass, then the rep rainge more suited for that is more like 9-12 reps.

    its all on that site.
  • lizzys
    lizzys Posts: 841 Member
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    up the weights
  • wrn1979
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    Mideon is dead on accurate...

    reps in the 8-12 range...muscle mass is all about the right amount of volume

    Take in a lot of protein, if you're destroying that much muscle tissue in the gym, your body has to have the right nutrients to repair itself and adapt

    I recommend any article you can find by the guy I've quoted in my signature Robert dos Remedios...he has a website and two published books....the website is one of my favorites, but I have to pay for the monthly subscription.
  • mideon_696
    mideon_696 Posts: 770 Member
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    Yeah he's awesome.

    Also check out Markos from PTC Frankston, in victoria, australia.

    And Christian Thibadeau, he's the one who has written the most of the stuff on t-nation.
  • dave4d
    dave4d Posts: 1,155 Member
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    T-nation is a great resource for lifting, and diet advice.
  • CHeMoTaCTiC
    CHeMoTaCTiC Posts: 41 Member
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    Thanks Mideon! I think you nailed it. I do do all my workouts at night. It's the only time I can find to consistently fit it in. It was great for weight loss, but not so good for muscle gain. I pound a bar and a shake after each workout to get a total of about 30-40g of protein, but it's a one time deal within 10-20 minutes of my workout. Then I am usually in bed within the hour.

    I have definitely seen results. My tone is amazing and I'm getting moderately cut. I think I've hit my plateau of "cut-ness" without putting on more mass though. Hence my desire to add some pounds. I'll try to pull my workouts forward an hour or so and maybe save the shake for right before bed to space it out from eating the protein bar. Working out in the morning just isn't possible for me.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    I've set my MFP goal to "Maintain Current Weight" and I stick to the calorie target religiously. But am I supposed to be using a "Gain Weight" target?

    In a word: yes.

    All the training in the world won't get you anywhere without the necessary calorie surplus to create an anabolic (or growth) environment.

    I would recommend adding about 150 calories to your daily total and increasing by this amount per week whilst keeping a close eye on your BF%. If you are gaining too much fat (you will probably add some unless you are spot on with your diet) then either reduce your surplus, watch your carb intake hasn't gone too high or add a little cardio (although not too much as this can be catabolic which is an opposing goal.)

    Continue to lift heavy. I think a 4-8 rep range may be a little better as the higher you go the more likely it is that you will be working towards strength as oppossed to all out mass.

    Like cutting the biggest part of this equation is diet though. Eat clean as much as possible. Don't get too caught up in the whole meal frequency / timing thing though. For optimum performance then yeah a mix of simple carbs and protein within a short timeframe after your workout will assist. However, if you don't meet the "window" it's won't dent your results that much.

    The vast majority of supplements have little to no benefits for a natural lifter. Be careful with T-Nation. There is some good advice there but mostly it seems to be orientated to marketing above performance. Nothing beats good diet, focused exercise, consistency and time.
  • pyro13g
    pyro13g Posts: 1,127 Member
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    Thanks. I'm starting to convince myself that part of the problem is that I'm not eating enough calories to significantly build muscle. I think I might try adding 200-300 calories a day to my intake in the form of a protein drink. I currently drink them when I exercise, but I always stay within my 'maintain weight' calorie target regardless. Maybe if I go outside my target range and give my body those extra calories in the form of protein, it will help. Does that make sense?

    Any calorie addition should be REAL food, not a shake. You should find out if your a hard gainer first. All the rest of the advice is sound. You should educated yourself with a few different training strategies. You will need to find what works best.

    Explore:
    High Volume Training
    High Intensity Training (low Volume)
    Split Routines vs Full body.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    You should educated yourself with a few different training strategies. You will need to find what works best.

    Explore:
    High Volume Training
    High Intensity Training (low Volume)
    Split Routines vs Full body.

    That's good advice. The training strategy you adopt should be the one which plays to your strengths and minimises your weaknesses and that is tailored for you as an individual. Play around with them to see which is right for you...
  • mideon_696
    mideon_696 Posts: 770 Member
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    I've set my MFP goal to "Maintain Current Weight" and I stick to the calorie target religiously. But am I supposed to be using a "Gain Weight" target?

    Continue to lift heavy. I think a 4-8 rep range may be a little better as the higher you go the more likely it is that you will be working towards strength as oppossed to all out mass.

    ???
    no. stay with i mentiond already. Low reps is for strenght, higher ones for size...

    [/quote]

    The vast majority of supplements have little to no benefits for a natural lifter. Be careful with T-Nation. There is some good advice there but mostly it seems to be orientated to marketing above performance. Nothing beats good diet, focused exercise, consistency and time.
    [/quote]

    T-nation is quality.
    They mention the average guys/beginner etc that the supplements etc arent neccessary...
    Of course they are promoting certain products...how else would they make cash?

    Their whole focus is on bulding muscle by using correct exercise and nutrition. The promo **** has to get dropped in...just ignore it.

    Just focus on your big lfts mate. Squat, Deadlifts, Bench, Pullups, Dips, Standing overhead press, Power Cleans.

    You want all these in your plan. forget BB curls, tricep extensions, leg curls, etc unless your above an intermediate level.

    What are your current 1RM's? you should use this figure to plan your attack and starting rep ranges.

    If you are unsure about how much you can lift in 1 go, spend the next week testing yourself out.
    Your probably below intermediate. like most folks on here i would imagine. no offense intended there.
    An intermediate lifter would be able to lift 2.5x his bodyweight for deadlifts. If you can lift this much, then awesome. otherwise, focus on those lifts for a good while! and just remember that progression is the key.

    Yeah if you can pull your workouts back an hour, that would be beneficial.
    Still take your shake immediately after working out. then eat real food 1/2 hour after, then again before bed. this will be better than what you have been doing.

    also, check this out. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_neural_charge/neural_charge_training
    i love it. :p
    Also read this one. http://www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/423
  • NOLAdy
    NOLAdy Posts: 133 Member
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    I'm glad I found this thread. This is exactly the information I was looking for. I want to lose about 10 pounds of fat and gain about 10 pounds of muscle. I've got the losing part down, it's the strength training I'm not familiar with. I'll be checking out all of the sources advised here.
    Just last night a friend of mine told me that I was doing it "wrong". Not a, "You're going to hurt yourself" wrong, but just that I needed to add more weight and less reps. So this thread popped up at a good time for me.

    A question, on average, is what I'm trying to achieve doable by the end of April. It's my sons birthday and we always like to take him to the beach for the weekend so that was my target goal.
  • wrn1979
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    If you're working out late at night and want to maximize your results your post-workout nutrition needs to contain some mix of whey and casein protein.

    Whey protein will digest more rapidly and provide for immediate post workout recovery.

    Casein protein (cottage cheese is a great source) digest more slowly and will provide protein throughout the night as you sleep.
  • mideon_696
    mideon_696 Posts: 770 Member
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    yep good advice there re cottage cheese. make that your third post workout meal i reckon.

    10lbs body recompisition by april?
    Its possibly. sure. with hard work anything can be done. do some more research re female bodybuilding and the like. not the hardcore stuff, just the natural stuff. look for articles that have a reliable study attached, or reliable science behind it. ignore anything you find that relates to woman's/mens health mag etc. they are garbage for this stuff, and never really reveal the key important parts
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    ???
    no. stay with i mentiond already. Low reps is for strenght, higher ones for size...

    I should have clarified that a little better and you're right that it does come across as a little counter intuitive if you are applying the term "strength" correctly. This is why I said a little later that this guy should try different training strategies to see what works for him.

    This comes down to volume load and the most efficient way of triggering hypertrophy / fast twitch fibres if mass is what you are after. The difficulty I have with the higher rep range (8-12) is that lots of people use it as a reason to cheat on their reps because in their mind they think they have that much more to do. Form therefore goes out of the window and the tendency is to use increased momentum to complete the lifts. It is therefore easier to up the weight and get layman "stronger" (as opposed to power lifter stronger!)

    If you ask people to recruit a heavier weight and work within a lower rep range then it just about eliminates the possibility to use momentum and forces you to focus on the lift. You pretty much have to slow down creating a greater likelihood of sufficient stress over time on the muscle to create microtrauma etc. Of course this balances out with the possibilty of using poor form if the weight is just too heavy.

    IF (and that's a big if) people are using correct from including rep speed then yeah a 8-12 rep range is probably preferable for a balance of overall growth and strength. However, most people, especially if they are not a particularly experienced lifter simply do not do so. There's obviously a degree of crossover within the 4-12 rep range but overall I think the lower range brings the most benefits to the most people if they are working out by themselves without the assistance of a good trainer / athlete.

    Ultimately all this talk of differnet rep range is probably overkill though and I apologise if my previous lack of explanation made it even more confusing! If you work with good form and progressive overload anywhere within the 4-12 rep range you will be just fine ;)

    We will have to agree to disagree on T-Nation though. I have seen it change out of all recognition in ten years and it has become a glorified marketing site. "I, Bodybuilder"? No comment. That's just my opinion though.
  • wrn1979
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    I'm glad I found this thread. This is exactly the information I was looking for. I want to lose about 10 pounds of fat and gain about 10 pounds of muscle. I've got the losing part down, it's the strength training I'm not familiar with. I'll be checking out all of the sources advised here.
    Just last night a friend of mine told me that I was doing it "wrong". Not a, "You're going to hurt yourself" wrong, but just that I needed to add more weight and less reps. So this thread popped up at a good time for me.

    A question, on average, is what I'm trying to achieve doable by the end of April. It's my sons birthday and we always like to take him to the beach for the weekend so that was my target goal.

    I don't want to discourage you, but I also don't want you to be disillusioned into thinking this is going to happen. I'm not saying it's impossible. I think it's very probable that you can achieve half of that stated goal. Your body relies on a calorie deficit to lose fat and requires a calorie excess to build muscle. Another factor that plays into your equation is that the human anatomy adds muscle mass at greatly slower rate than it burns bodyfat.


    I think by the end of April you can certainly have the ten pounds of body fat that you wish to lose off. You can probably lose those ten pounds and then some. You can also certainly improve your muscle TONE in that time frame. The definition of muscle tone is "tension in resting muscle" meaning that your muscles even when not doing anything will be poised for action and ready to respond. They'll look damn good too ;-). I think you will be hard pressed to gain that much muscle MASS in that time frame while keeping your body in the caloric deficit required to lose that much body fat that quickly.