Feed to shed fat
Newfiedan
Posts: 1,517 Member
So I recently read yet another post about working out like mad and not shedding fat the way they wanted or hitting a goal weight and still not seeing the desired results. So this provoked me to write yet another post about feeding the body right to get rid of the fat and preserve the muscle. I follow a very similar approach to this as one of my fav authors tom venuto. He is a brilliant man and he explains why we fail on 99% of diets in plain honest english. So I will pass this onto the men and women whom may benefit from it. Rules to keep that metabolic rate working for you:
1) You can not gain mass amounts of muscle (10+ pounds a month) and shed mass amounts of fat at the same time unless you are genetically gifted (which most of us are not) the rules are straightforward, it is common to build some muscle and shed fat but we are not talking 30 pounds of muscle we are talking a few pounds at best. So choose which you want as that sets the diet goals. Counting calories is a vital part of that so get used to it and log everything, good and bad as bad days will show you when and why you are failing.
2)How much of a deficit do we need to shed fat? Well that is around 15-20% of maintenance. MFP gives you a best guess, its not bang on and may require some tinkering to get it right. In my case it was pretty close and I had great success shedding fat by cycling my cals using the zig zag principle. Zig zagging is not going from 2000 cals down to 1200 then back up despite what many on here have said. In proper application it is going to the max deficit (20% or in some cases 1000 cals) for 2 days and on the 3rd going back to maintenance, the purpose is simple to confuse the body, you are taking it to the brink of starvation mode and then recovering on the day you eat maintenance keeping metabolic rate high. So if you are 6ft tall and 300 pounds 1200 a day is not enough to shed fat effectively end of story. You may have great success for a week or 2 maybe even 3 but then you will bring up solid and be in worse shape than when you started out to begin with.
3) Exercise cals there has been great debate about this, eating them back or not. I want you to consider the case where you have someone whom works out 5-7 days a week burns off 500 or more cals a day eating 1200 and not eating them back as an extreme example and not losing weight despite their best efforts. Well you are killing your body, congrats, you are in starvation mode friend. This is why you are deadlocked, the body requires a min of 1200 for women and 1500 for men unless you are exceptionally short to function at a good metabolic level. When you drop below that level the body shuts down the metabolic engine and fat loss, it will consume muscle to feed itself and it will not get you results. So if you are working out like mad you need to eat to feed that metabolic engine to keep burning fat, up the cals, spreading them out throughout the day for optimal fat loss.
4) Eat frequently, 6 small meals a day will keep the metabolic engine burning fat, you will have less energy dips and feel full longer. You can eat 3 but we tend to not get as good results from that amount of meals. This also helps prevent that sweet tooth craving that some of us get. Try adding some cinnamon into the diet to help curb that one. (max of 1.5 tsp/day)
5) Do not miss a meal, most of all do not miss breakfast. Yep I know a lot of you do, and have succeeded, congrats but for optimal metabolic performance this one counts most of all and having that no more than 30 mins after waking up is the best time to eat it. As an added bonus make this one 30% or more of protein and you really get it going full throttle.
6) Do not eat 2 to 3 hours before bed, not so much from a fat gain angle as much as a sleep angle. If the body is processing food then it will not allow you to sleep as well making your rest not count as much and tiring the body more. Proper sleep is key to recovery and we all need that when training.
7) Eat with purpose, feeding the muscles properly will have the greatest effect on fat loss, so eating those microwave meals may be convenient and low cal but you can feed someone crap and their results will suffer. A small amount of junk will not hurt your fat loss, but a large amount will. You are now training yourself to shed fat, so if you are not hungry so what? You are eating with purpose, the body does not always send you the right signals right away, it takes time for it to adapt to proper intake and once it does look out the hunger will come on.
8) If you are miserable on this new path then you are doing something wrong, now this means disregarding the first few weeks as you need to detox your body and mind off the junk. You are an addict to that crap and it will take some time to get over the mental addiction, the first few weeks will probably suck but once they are over you will be amazed at how your body responds.
9) The road to a flat belly starts in your kitchen, yep that means you are going to have to cook your own meals (cry if you like, no excuses get over it and start making the right choices, most of us are poorly educated on how to eat right, so here are a few helpful links: http://www.beachbody.com/category/michis_ladder.do http://www.cleaneatingmag.com/ http://flatbelly.naviibk.com/FlatBelly/Categories/Recipes)
10) Last but not least, you are responsible for your results, so not giving your all to it will show, and if you are unhappy then guess who you get to blame. Yep sucks doesn't it? But hey at least you are now geared up for success and not failure. it does not mean the end of the world as you know it, you can still enjoy your fav foods but in sensible portions now and best of all you may have a whole new set of favs like I do. The very thought of McDonald or fast food makes me want to puke now, and I loved my fries and burgers there a few months ago.
I hope this helps some of you, and if you got offended sorry, its truth and I know some of you are going to disagree, well great for you enjoy your path this does not apply to you move along.
1) You can not gain mass amounts of muscle (10+ pounds a month) and shed mass amounts of fat at the same time unless you are genetically gifted (which most of us are not) the rules are straightforward, it is common to build some muscle and shed fat but we are not talking 30 pounds of muscle we are talking a few pounds at best. So choose which you want as that sets the diet goals. Counting calories is a vital part of that so get used to it and log everything, good and bad as bad days will show you when and why you are failing.
2)How much of a deficit do we need to shed fat? Well that is around 15-20% of maintenance. MFP gives you a best guess, its not bang on and may require some tinkering to get it right. In my case it was pretty close and I had great success shedding fat by cycling my cals using the zig zag principle. Zig zagging is not going from 2000 cals down to 1200 then back up despite what many on here have said. In proper application it is going to the max deficit (20% or in some cases 1000 cals) for 2 days and on the 3rd going back to maintenance, the purpose is simple to confuse the body, you are taking it to the brink of starvation mode and then recovering on the day you eat maintenance keeping metabolic rate high. So if you are 6ft tall and 300 pounds 1200 a day is not enough to shed fat effectively end of story. You may have great success for a week or 2 maybe even 3 but then you will bring up solid and be in worse shape than when you started out to begin with.
3) Exercise cals there has been great debate about this, eating them back or not. I want you to consider the case where you have someone whom works out 5-7 days a week burns off 500 or more cals a day eating 1200 and not eating them back as an extreme example and not losing weight despite their best efforts. Well you are killing your body, congrats, you are in starvation mode friend. This is why you are deadlocked, the body requires a min of 1200 for women and 1500 for men unless you are exceptionally short to function at a good metabolic level. When you drop below that level the body shuts down the metabolic engine and fat loss, it will consume muscle to feed itself and it will not get you results. So if you are working out like mad you need to eat to feed that metabolic engine to keep burning fat, up the cals, spreading them out throughout the day for optimal fat loss.
4) Eat frequently, 6 small meals a day will keep the metabolic engine burning fat, you will have less energy dips and feel full longer. You can eat 3 but we tend to not get as good results from that amount of meals. This also helps prevent that sweet tooth craving that some of us get. Try adding some cinnamon into the diet to help curb that one. (max of 1.5 tsp/day)
5) Do not miss a meal, most of all do not miss breakfast. Yep I know a lot of you do, and have succeeded, congrats but for optimal metabolic performance this one counts most of all and having that no more than 30 mins after waking up is the best time to eat it. As an added bonus make this one 30% or more of protein and you really get it going full throttle.
6) Do not eat 2 to 3 hours before bed, not so much from a fat gain angle as much as a sleep angle. If the body is processing food then it will not allow you to sleep as well making your rest not count as much and tiring the body more. Proper sleep is key to recovery and we all need that when training.
7) Eat with purpose, feeding the muscles properly will have the greatest effect on fat loss, so eating those microwave meals may be convenient and low cal but you can feed someone crap and their results will suffer. A small amount of junk will not hurt your fat loss, but a large amount will. You are now training yourself to shed fat, so if you are not hungry so what? You are eating with purpose, the body does not always send you the right signals right away, it takes time for it to adapt to proper intake and once it does look out the hunger will come on.
8) If you are miserable on this new path then you are doing something wrong, now this means disregarding the first few weeks as you need to detox your body and mind off the junk. You are an addict to that crap and it will take some time to get over the mental addiction, the first few weeks will probably suck but once they are over you will be amazed at how your body responds.
9) The road to a flat belly starts in your kitchen, yep that means you are going to have to cook your own meals (cry if you like, no excuses get over it and start making the right choices, most of us are poorly educated on how to eat right, so here are a few helpful links: http://www.beachbody.com/category/michis_ladder.do http://www.cleaneatingmag.com/ http://flatbelly.naviibk.com/FlatBelly/Categories/Recipes)
10) Last but not least, you are responsible for your results, so not giving your all to it will show, and if you are unhappy then guess who you get to blame. Yep sucks doesn't it? But hey at least you are now geared up for success and not failure. it does not mean the end of the world as you know it, you can still enjoy your fav foods but in sensible portions now and best of all you may have a whole new set of favs like I do. The very thought of McDonald or fast food makes me want to puke now, and I loved my fries and burgers there a few months ago.
I hope this helps some of you, and if you got offended sorry, its truth and I know some of you are going to disagree, well great for you enjoy your path this does not apply to you move along.
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Replies
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I still feel skeptical about #1. I mean, certainly you can't body build on a weight loss diet, but I have seen a lot of women build muscle and lose weight at the same time.
I just hate discouraging anyone from exercising...0 -
THANK YOU fuzzy!!0
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Thank you!0
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Well said!
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its not meant to discourage you, but most of us do not realize is that when we are overweight we have a good bit of muscle to start with, we need to in order to be able to move that weight. when we shed fat we will see that muscle it does not mean you are not getting results. So do not confuse that statement with low muscle gain, by mass amounts I mean 10+pounds a month.I still feel skeptical about #1. I mean, certainly you can't body build on a weight loss diet, but I have seen a lot of women build muscle and lose weight at the same time.
I just hate discouraging anyone from exercising...0 -
Yeah - what he said!!! :blushing:0
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Your awesome!0
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I love all your posts! well said!
) 0 -
I like the idea of using the zig zag method! Do you do this every 3 days? And how much do you exercise when you are on the 2 low days & on the maintenance day?0
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Also, I always believed in the 5-6 small meals a day. But then Jillian Michaels posted a statement that it's a myth, and that it's better to eat every 4 hours. She said that when you are eatting every 2-3 hours it does something with insulin. So now I'm confused which way is best.0
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i want to clarify something here, when we are overweight say 30+ pounds over a normal weight, the body will build muscles to move that weight around this is why I look at ppl whom have 100+ to shed as kind of amazing since they do not realize how much strength it takes to move that around. I look at it as a slimmer person carrying the same weight in a backpack on their backs (I know its more spread out for those sarcastic ppl). A larger person walking at a 3 mph pace does more work than someone who is running 11 mph with no added weight. This is why I explained that ppl need not be intimidated by HIIT training, HIIT for one is not the same as the other, and you do not need to be running at 11mph to qualify for the HIIT title.0
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Right on fuzz you speak the truth!!!0
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its more what fits your schedule, every 4 hours works for some and every 3 for others, there are always differing opinions on that. I workout every 2nd or 3rd day mostly metabolic resistance training as it is very time effective and I need that at the moment with my schedule. I also eat back most if not all my exercise cals.Also, I always believed in the 5-6 small meals a day. But then Jillian Michaels posted a statement that it's a myth, and that it's better to eat every 4 hours. She said that when you are eating every 2-3 hours it does something with insulin. So now I'm confused which way is best.0 -
I began changing my plan of attack about a week ago, because my weight loss had come to a standstill. I guess I had sort of gathered some of this info along the way, but you explained it so well. Thank you. Zig zagging is my new strategy.0
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Thank you. I believe everybody should read Tom Venuto. Brilliant advice and very simple to understand.0
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if you came to a standstill then take a look at what mfp recommended to start with chances are you are not getting enough cals in.I began changing my plan of attack about a week ago, because my weight loss had come to a standstill.0 -
I hit a plateau, had lost 70 lbs, was not eating exercise calories and my goal was 2 lb week weight loss and was even under maintance on that, just lowered my goal to l lb week and finding it hard to eat enough calories, and weight is starting to drop again. Have not been on the increase in calories long, but think you are pretty well right on. Few of the things that work for me.
1. If I dont eat too many carbs I dont seem to be hungary or gain weight back when I lay off the carbs.
2. I like a tred mill for exercise and can read a book on a kindle at the same time. The better the book the faster time gos buy. I only go 3 miles an hour, but going 3.5, means that I only get about 60 more calories per hour , easier to read at 3.
3. I have started useing bicycle every other day weather permitting and swimming, (also use weight machine for six repetitions of 12 for arms and legs} and I swim when weather permits, up to 15 laps.
4. Corn beef and cabbage works good on low carb diet, so does fit and active low fat yogurt mixed with very very high fiber cereal works well for breakfast. Remember you can deduct dietary fiber from carbs.
5 I am at about the same weight now as I played football in college, next goal is 191 because some article says that where I would look normal and not over weight for my height and body frame. (never been there) next goal is 181, think that suppose to be upper end of desired weight for large frame and height. They say you can take your thumb and forefinger and use it around your left wrist, if it wont reach your large frame, just reach medium, easy reach small.
I am reading Ventos book on kindle right now "The Body Fat Solution: Five Principles for Burning Fat, Building Lean Muscle, Ending EmotionalEating, and Maintaining Your Perfect Weight, Venuto, Tom
Guess thats enough am just rattling on. Do you know what of the most powerful short 3 or 4 word sentences are in the world. I am responsible or you are responsible and you can do it or I can do it. .0 -
thanks0
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Hey Jerzee,
I was recently reading an interview with Ryan Reynolds, who knows a thing or two now about working out...
That man has gotten in amazing shape to play 2 superheroes this year.
I know he was gaining and not losing (like you and I probably both are), but the principle is the same, since he was still trying to lose the fat.
"If you keep feeding your body, it doesn't need to store fat for energy."
Obviously calories and such become an issue, but the skinny girls I see in New York are always nibbling on veggies and things. I'd go with the 2-3 hours over 4 hours. Just make them smaller portions/fewer calories.
My abs are telling me that this works
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I still feel skeptical about #1. I mean, certainly you can't body build on a weight loss diet, but I have seen a lot of women build muscle and lose weight at the same time.
I just hate discouraging anyone from exercising...
I could be wrong, but I think the point was not that working out is not important, but that your body can only do so many things at one time. If it is focusing on burning fat, you have probably opted for a reduced caloric consumption - would that not inherently limit your physical ability to build muscle (to an extent)? If your body is burning through your fat reserves it will probably be more focused on keeping your systems functioning than on adding muscle.
***DISCLAIMER*** I may not know what I am talking about. ^_^0 -
I feel the same way, I am at a standstill, I know I just started the program, but I'm looking for quik results, but I'll be patient and let it flow, but still maintain my calorie count.0
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Thanks for this!0
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10) Last but not least, you are responsible for your results, so not giving your all to it will show, and if you are unhappy then guess who you get to blame. Yep sucks doesn't it? But hey at least you are now geared up for success and not failure. it does not mean the end of the world as you know it, you can still enjoy your fav foods but in sensible portions now and best of all you may have a whole new set of favs like I do. The very thought of McDonald or fast food makes me want to puke now, and I loved my fries and burgers there a few months ago.
All of your information sounds well thought out and researched! I absolutely agree to this last statement - nothing at those fast food places taste good anymore. I've been cooking almost all of our foods selectively since January and my new motto is (and my husband is using it now too) is IF IT DOESN'T TASTE WONDERFUL I DON'T EAT IT. If I only get so many calories per day - I want to use them on foods that I find taste GREAT and are good for me so I'm not going to waste them on a boring piece of bread or other empty calories... :-). Since starting MFP and watching what I am eating - I am now actually tasting the foods!
Thanks again for your information!!0 -
I have a degree in Physical Education, was the Physical Director at the YMCA in Savannah Georgia many years ago. You can lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. Think of it as useing the fat as energy to build muscle. A lb of body fat has 3500 calories, a pound of muscle about 600 calories if I remember right. Lets say your calories used to just maintain your body was 2000 per day. You add enought exercise to burn 500 calories a day. You are going to lose at least one lb a week,, 3500 calories,,,, but you are going to turn some of the additional calories into muscle. One of the things that happens is One pound of muscle burns 6 calories a day where a pound of fat only burns 2 calories a day. Also remember a lb of fat is about 3 times the size of muscle. There is a lot going on with your body any time especially when you are loseing weight.
If your serious about weight loss you had better exercise.0 -
bump0
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yes you can but not as much as you would in a caloric surplus, the body needs cals to build muscle so when in caloric deficit your muscle gain gets really stunted. I know as I have gained muscle while shedding fat, muscle gain has never been a problem for me, I can gain upwards of 10 lbs/mth of muscle when eating for that purpose. You will not gain a large amount while shedding fat though, you are simply not eating enough calories to build muscle effectively.I have a degree in Physical Education, was the Physical Director at the YMCA in Savannah Georgia many years ago. You can lose weight and gain muscle at the same time.0 -
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Well put Fuzzy! I am going to get metabolic assessment next week. Hopefully that will help me with my BMR and eating enough calories! Thanks for all the advice0
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lol thx and you should be shedding like a champ bud anyway I can support let me know.0
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thanks for posting this very interesting.0
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