Starvation mode?

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  • shorerider
    shorerider Posts: 3,817 Member
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    I'm not saying that eating less is always better... All I'm saying is that eating more won't make you lose weight faster. That IF you're eating enough, whatever "enough" means for you - you're not going to lose weight faster if you eat more.

    Please, please, please don't extrapolate my comments to suggest that I'm advocating REAL starvation.

    The "starvation mode" that I'm arguing against is the claim that on say, 1800 calories a day, the reason why I'm not losing weight is "starvation mode." It's not. It's that weighing less means eating less. Not that I should go down to 900. But that 1600 might be worth trying if I want to see results.

    I don't think that I'm advocating anything dangerous.

    Again, congrats on your success.

    I don't think I've seen anyone on here tell someone to "eat more" if they were eating 1800 calories or 1500 or 1600 or whatever. I have seen--and I do myself--tell people that for most 1200 is too low. And, I still firmly believe it is. AND, I know that adding in calories for some that are eating too little can bring back weight loss. Mine had stalled until I bumped up to 1400 a day, and many others on here have the same results.

    I agree partly with what you're saying but not sure where you got that some are saying simply "eat more to lose weight" because I've never read that on here unless someone was eating 1200 or less a day.

    And, yes, for some even 1400-1500 a day is too few--depending upon age, sex, etc.

    Songbyrdsweet is right--this is something we all need to learn, adjust, and figure out what's working for us.

    BUT, there is a level that is simply dangerous and silly to go under unless you wish to lose weight AND damage your body. And for most, that is about 1200 a day--and there is no reason for most to be that low.

    And, I don't think that most on here use "starvation mode" to infer that someone is literally starving themselves.

    I use it to infer that they bodies feel that starvation is near or that a famine is near--our bodies are built to defend itself against such things and will react quickly. If the body begins to get less than what it needs to function to exist (or if it somehow feels that it is happening), it will adjust amazingly quickly and begin to "squirrel" away every ounce of energy it can get, converting whatever it can to be stored and saved, in fear that soon it will receive nothing. This can occur without approaching "real" starvation. And, this is what I feel happens to many on here who try to do 1200-1300 (for some 1400-1500 is way too low) calories a day--their bodies need more, feel that a famine is near, and react accordingly. Instead of losing weight, their bodies "horde food" and they can't lose. By eating more, their bodies realize that food is present and not scarce, and will again "allow" weight lose to occur.

    If they are truly not given their bodies enough to eat, not only will all the above occur, but their bodies will also begin to cannibalize itself, using muscle, etc, for energy to simply live.

    I've been at this seriously since April, have learned a LOT, and have lots more to learn just about my own body.
  • happy_feet
    happy_feet Posts: 175 Member
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    I don't buy that your body can enter "starvation mode" so easily. I think it's more a matter of this scenario happening to a lot of us:

    We cut calories but don't lose weight that week, so we get frustrated and decide we must not have been eating enough! So then we eat more, and if we lose weight that week, we think aha! I need to be eating more... But getting frustrated with slow weight loss =/= starvation!

    But this weight loss would actually be FASTER if you cut more calories. Granted, you don't want to cut too much. Go below 900 calories a day (I got that figure from an MD) for a sustained period and you'll start to use your internal organs for energy. And most of us would feel like crap below 1200 calories a day, even though medical clinics go below that level over predetermined periods of time.

    Just as an example, the highest cholesterol levels are reported among a very thin group of people: anorexics. Why? They're living on their own organs. And they're going to die if they keep it up.

    That's the true risk of "starvation mode": starving to death. Most of us on MFP are here because we are on the opposite side of the spectrum - we've been overeating all our lives!

    The case for eating more:

    There's no point in reducing your calories to a level that you know you won't stick to once you lose the weight. This is about lifestyle! When you're thin, you just can't eat as much and stay thin. If you go back to eating the way you did when you were heavier, you will get heavier again.

    So never eat so little that you feel like you're starving... Not because you actually are, but because you'll be more likely to stick to your new lifestyle if you eat a little more and lose weight a little more slowly.



    Dat was an excellent explaination yellow_pepper. I used to wonder at tyms if I dont eat d recommended 1200 cals a day i mite enter the starvation mode...even though I wudnt be hungry. Infact, I jus posted my fears here a coupla days ago...Thanks, this helps!! :drinker:
  • littlespoon
    littlespoon Posts: 165
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    Songbyrd, something I have been wondering about this topic also. I know that if in starvation for long enough, the body will have to "eat" something, but before it turns to organs, wouldnt it take fat first because it knows that stored fat is less necessary than an organ?
  • kerrilucko
    kerrilucko Posts: 3,852 Member
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    Songbyrd, something I have been wondering about this topic also. I know that if in starvation for long enough, the body will have to "eat" something, but before it turns to organs, wouldnt it take fat first because it knows that stored fat is less necessary than an organ?

    I have always been of the understanding that it takes from mucsle tissue and organ tissue because it is more nutrient rich than fat is. Your body is just just looking for energy calories, it's looking for all the nutrients it's missing out on. But hopefully songbyrd can give us a better answer.
  • looovely_x3
    looovely_x3 Posts: 37
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    Your body's in starvation mode when your body is making the most of any calories you do consume. I was taught that your body uses energy stores first like glucose, then it begins to use up body fat and then muscle affecting your organs. But ive also heard that it uses lean tissue and muscle to help the body functioning preserving fats. either way what every version takes your fancy if any its going to affect your metabolic rate and slow it down, meaning your body can survive on less calories making weight loss slow down. Apparently if you just kind of trick your body so instead of restricting calories, Every so often you have a treat i think it may boost your metab but dont rely on that bit of information. Hope that helped but im sure it says that in the other comments on here i just couldn't be bothered reading all of then .x

    Good luck anyway;
  • yellow_pepper
    yellow_pepper Posts: 708 Member
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    If you significantly reduce your size through dieting, it will come from both fat and muscle. Changing what you eat can shift the balance, but it will never be just fat. Your body wants a balanced diet, and when you're not eating enough to support your current weight, it won't just decide "hmm, I think that I'll ONLY use fat" any more than you would reach for a stick of butter the next time you're hungry.

    You can fight your counter your body's tendency to metabolize muscle by building more muscle mass. This is a very slow process for most people, as Songbyrd has attested in previous posts. So when you lose weight fast, you'll probably lose more muscle than you can replace through strength training.
    But if you're not doing any strength training, you'll probably lose that muscle anyway, just not as fast if you lose weight slowly than if you lost it quickly. (Just like you won't lose the fat any faster either.)

    As for metabolizing internal organs, I think you need to be literally starving before that becomes a real issue. Provided of course, that you don't have any medical problems. Which is a good reason to see a doctor before beginning any weight loss program. How many of us have done that, I wonder...

    And to the points about people only calling out "starvation mode" when someone claims to be eating just 1200-1500 calories a day, it's seemed more often to me... It's seemed like whenever someone hits a plateau, at least one person suggests "you might be in starvation mode," rather than the more intuitive but less welcome answer "maybe you need to adjust your calories downward again." And I've usually held my tongue, but since someone started a whole post on the topic, I couldn't resist posting.
  • Angiebangie
    Angiebangie Posts: 191 Member
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    A lot of people I know don't read anything about what they eat. Its not so much of how much you eat but what you eat as well. You can eat 1200 calories worth of cookies and enter into some type of starvation mode because you're not getting what you body needs, like vitamins and other nurients. However, eating nothing buy celery sticks will also have the same effect.

    You have to eat everything in moderation. I'm sure everyone has heard this before. 1200 to 1600 is good goal range for calories if you're eating the right types of food. You shouldn't enter into starvation mode if you eat the right type of food.

    Exactly, now that I'm eating soooo many more veggies, I can be totally stuffed at the end of the day and realize I consumed only 1200 calories, or fewer, but ate so much that day, veggies just don't have that many calories, but they're packed with so many other good things.
  • Fitness_Chick
    Fitness_Chick Posts: 6,648 Member
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    looovely_x3:flowerforyou:

    Welcome welcome! I see you've joined us this month on MFP....so glad to have you hear and already so active:drinker:
  • shorerider
    shorerider Posts: 3,817 Member
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    And to the points about people only calling out "starvation mode" when someone claims to be eating just 1200-1500 calories a day, it's seemed more often to me... It's seemed like whenever someone hits a plateau, at least one person suggests "you might be in starvation mode," rather than the more intuitive but less welcome answer "maybe you need to adjust your calories downward again." And I've usually held my tongue, but since someone started a whole post on the topic, I couldn't resist posting.

    and i still stand by the fact for some, adding calories is the answer. It worked for me-it's worked for others on here. Sometimes eating less is not the answer.
  • Fitness_Chick
    Fitness_Chick Posts: 6,648 Member
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    A lot of people I know don't read anything about what they eat. Its not so much of how much you eat but what you eat as well. You can eat 1200 calories worth of cookies and enter into some type of starvation mode because you're not getting what you body needs, like vitamins and other nurients. However, eating nothing buy celery sticks will also have the same effect.

    You have to eat everything in moderation. I'm sure everyone has heard this before. 1200 to 1600 is good goal range for calories if you're eating the right types of food. You shouldn't enter into starvation mode if you eat the right type of food.

    Exactly, now that I'm eating soooo many more veggies, I can be totally stuffed at the end of the day and realize I consumed only 1200 calories, or fewer, but ate so much that day, veggies just don't have that many calories, but they're packed with so many other good things.

    Once you go clean eating....amazing isn't it how much better fruits and veggies taste....they tasted yum all along...but I think, well I know for myself my taste has changed literally changed ...so what I put in my mouth....doesn't always stay....politely put...while doing some sample tasting (yes even at my healthy food coop:blushing: ) I was tasting some samples of cheese, various items...oh my...sometimes I had to look for a napkin to nonchalantly as possible (yea right is that possible:blushing: :huh: :noway: :laugh: :wink: ) tuck it inside and place it in the trash.:blushing: :happy:

    I no longer eat what doesn't taste good to me, even samples.... it's just one more little way of taking care of myself:flowerforyou: ....I don't chose to eat at relatives homes often but when I do I sometimes bring a bit of my own, not always knowing what my choices will be so that way...

    well, some of us know how folks can feel we're rude if we don't eat items offered in kindness....lol Never mean to offend but when it comes to food...I get to chose what and what I don't eat. :):drinker: :huh:


    So tastes can really change up over a time when we start really 'tasting our food' sometimes for the first time in a long time.

    Great life we got here....folks, great life!! :drinker: :wink::flowerforyou:
  • NWCountryGal
    NWCountryGal Posts: 1,992 Member
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    This is the one I go with, it is good that I watch my food consumption and exercise, my life is already changing just in over a month! But, it is WHAT I eat that seems to be the most important thing. I eat from the 5 basic food groups, Dairy, meats, vegies, fruits and whole grains. I drink more water(never liked drinking water. I use a tsp of sugar in my coffee, only 2 cups per day by the way, and keep my fat intake at 20-25. I also have 30 or 35 on some foods. I walk every day usually but have started taking a day off. But my workouts are not hard on my body and they are truly enjoyment, can't really call them "workouts". I do believe in weight-training and plan to start the bowflex on the 20th.

    Our bodies have been made to work, fuel, rest, work fuel, rest. That's how I see it and that is what is working for me:) It truly is a lifestyle or forming good habits to replace bad ones, imho. Walking each day is becoming like brushing my teeth, I wouldn't go without brushing my teeth. For me, I don't by junk so I rarely eat it. Junk for me is potato chips and a bag of candy. Now a treat for me is still a night out at Abbys pizza, or, the church potluck with a sample of a little bit of all the goodies:)

    Im with you on your post:) On the starvation mode, I would say that begins to happen if we aren't putting enough "fuel" in our bods. Say under that 1200 or so. Your body can be in bed all day and still burn 1100 some calories I understand?? If we don't feed it then what else is there to fuel it except whats there and also, it doesn't go for the fat first I hear, it goes for our lean muscle mass. People are dying all over America from lack of knowledge about how are bodies work. Again Im grateful to this site and it's members!! God bless all!! denise in Sams Valley OR

    A lot of people I know don't read anything about what they eat. Its not so much of how much you eat but what you eat as well. You can eat 1200 calories worth of cookies and enter into some type of starvation mode because you're not getting what you body needs, like vitamins and other nurients. However, eating nothing buy celery sticks will also have the same effect.

    You have to eat everything in moderation. I'm sure everyone has heard this before. 1200 to 1600 is good goal range for calories if you're eating the right types of food. You shouldn't enter into starvation mode if you eat the right type of food.
  • NWCountryGal
    NWCountryGal Posts: 1,992 Member
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    This is so true! Tastes! My tastes are changing drastically and wonderfully:) I actually enjoy for a snack, a bowl of cheerios with soy milk(vanilla)as the only sweetner. If I don't have soy and only milk, I still don't need the sugar!! Vegies are great but I still struggle with eating fruits but I'll come around:) I did by some frozen fruits to spin in the blender for a smoothee and "eat" them that way. But I just wanted to say that yes, I totally agree it is a "change in taste" for me:) I used to love Macdonalds and no offense to anyone here, but it gags me to think of that sort of fast food. I don't crave the potato chips or sweets anymore either.

    Have a great day!!! denise in Sams Valley:)

    A lot of people I know don't read anything about what they eat. Its not so much of how much you eat but what you eat as well. You can eat 1200 calories worth of cookies and enter into some type of starvation mode because you're not getting what you body needs, like vitamins and other nurients. However, eating nothing buy celery sticks will also have the same effect.

    You have to eat everything in moderation. I'm sure everyone has heard this before. 1200 to 1600 is good goal range for calories if you're eating the right types of food. You shouldn't enter into starvation mode if you eat the right type of food.

    Exactly, now that I'm eating soooo many more veggies, I can be totally stuffed at the end of the day and realize I consumed only 1200 calories, or fewer, but ate so much that day, veggies just don't have that many calories, but they're packed with so many other good things.

    Once you go clean eating....amazing isn't it how much better fruits and veggies taste....they tasted yum all along...but I think, well I know for myself my taste has changed literally changed ...so what I put in my mouth....doesn't always stay....politely put...while doing some sample tasting (yes even at my healthy food coop:blushing: ) I was tasting some samples of cheese, various items...oh my...sometimes I had to look for a napkin to nonchalantly as possible (yea right is that possible:blushing: :huh: :noway: :laugh: :wink: ) tuck it inside and place it in the trash.:blushing: :happy:

    I no longer eat what doesn't taste good to me, even samples.... it's just one more little way of taking care of myself:flowerforyou: ....I don't chose to eat at relatives homes often but when I do I sometimes bring a bit of my own, not always knowing what my choices will be so that way...

    well, some of us know how folks can feel we're rude if we don't eat items offered in kindness....lol Never mean to offend but when it comes to food...I get to chose what and what I don't eat. :):drinker: :huh:


    So tastes can really change up over a time when we start really 'tasting our food' sometimes for the first time in a long time.

    Great life we got here....folks, great life!! :drinker: :wink::flowerforyou:
  • NWCountryGal
    NWCountryGal Posts: 1,992 Member
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    Im beginning to think that less food is NEVER the answer, type of food yes, and according to what we are burning each day exercise or not:)


    And to the points about people only calling out "starvation mode" when someone claims to be eating just 1200-1500 calories a day, it's seemed more often to me... It's seemed like whenever someone hits a plateau, at least one person suggests "you might be in starvation mode," rather than the more intuitive but less welcome answer "maybe you need to adjust your calories downward again." And I've usually held my tongue, but since someone started a whole post on the topic, I couldn't resist posting.

    and i still stand by the fact for some, adding calories is the answer. It worked for me-it's worked for others on here. Sometimes eating less is not the answer.
  • NWCountryGal
    NWCountryGal Posts: 1,992 Member
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    I am also starting to see this whole thing as not just a physical problem(being overweight)but as a mental/emotional as well. The way I thought about food, the way I felt when I ate etc. I ate a lot because it made me feel good but the ultimate result did not. Plus the knowledge I've gained on this site has been literally like a light bulb coming on after basically 55 years of "ignorance"(lack of knowledge, not stupid by the way) Just didn't care enough to find out, or look for help. Seems the folks here got to that point also, "I don't like the way I feel or look, lets find out what the "winners" are doing that I'm not:):bigsmile: :laugh:
  • kerrilucko
    kerrilucko Posts: 3,852 Member
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    And to the points about people only calling out "starvation mode" when someone claims to be eating just 1200-1500 calories a day, it's seemed more often to me... It's seemed like whenever someone hits a plateau, at least one person suggests "you might be in starvation mode," rather than the more intuitive but less welcome answer "maybe you need to adjust your calories downward again." And I've usually held my tongue, but since someone started a whole post on the topic, I couldn't resist posting.

    and i still stand by the fact for some, adding calories is the answer. It worked for me-it's worked for others on here. Sometimes eating less is not the answer.

    If an overweight individual is already eating between 1200-1500 calories and not losing weight, eating LESS is not the answer. They are already at quite a large deficit (500+ calories depending on their weight) most of us are or began as overweight or obese and these numbers, simply put, are very low. As ffor someone at a healthy weight just looking to trim down and drop a few lbs? That has to be done very slowly over time, so for them their calories would be just a few hundred less than maintenance, certainly not less than 1200. Like I said, If someone suggests that another is potentially iin "starvation mode" (which to most of us means that your body is really holding onto all of your calories in fear of starvation) it's usually as valid an answer as suggesting patience or increasing exercise.
  • NewMK08
    NewMK08 Posts: 399 Member
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    I agree that if one is eating 1200-1500 calories a day, then lowering their calorie intake when they hit a plateau is not the best move. But, Yellow Pepper did make a good point-Hasn't it been said that once you lose a significant amount of weight you need to look at your calorie goals/needs and adjust them accordingly? So when does that come in to play?

    But another argument going against that is the idea that if I want to weigh (I'll just use myself for an example) 135, then I need to eat like a 135 pound person. So I enter 135 as my weight to find out my BMR, and if I just eat those calories, whatever they may be, I never have to decrease my calories because I'm eating like I'm already at my goal weight.

    And just a side question-Is eating your goal weight calories a good idea??
  • kerrilucko
    kerrilucko Posts: 3,852 Member
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    I agree that if one is eating 1200-1500 calories a day, then lowering their calorie intake when they hit a plateau is not the best move. But, Yellow Pepper did make a good point-Hasn't it been said that once you lose a significant amount of weight you need to look at your calorie goals/needs and adjust them accordingly? So when does that come in to play?

    But another argument going against that is the idea that if I want to weigh (I'll just use myself for an example) 135, then I need to eat like a 135 pound person. So I enter 135 as my weight to find out my BMR, and if I just eat those calories, whatever they may be, I never have to decrease my calories because I'm eating like I'm already at my goal weight.

    And just a side question-Is eating your goal weight calories a good idea??
    it is a good idea if you are just a few lbs from your goal. A few have mentioned that in other threads. If you have a ways to go though, it can just make the losses slower.
  • arewethereyet
    arewethereyet Posts: 18,702 Member
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    well I must say it has been a while since I have learned so much from a good posting!!

    Thanks truly enjoyed the educated banter! (funny I had to correct the spelling of educated lol)
    I hit a plateau. I posted and good ol Banks replied. It was pointed out that maybe, just maybe, I THOUGHT I was eating 1200 but was really was not. Suggestion made: measure everything you eat, even ketchup! Ok so I do this and guess what...I was eating aroudn 900 cals a day! Woops.

    I increased my intake to 1200 and then 1300 and then 1400 and lost weight.

    NOW as I lost weight I decreased again to 1350 then 1300 because I understand in order to have a deficit I must eat less than I burn!


    have a wonderful day!!:flowerforyou:
  • yellow_pepper
    yellow_pepper Posts: 708 Member
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    If an overweight individual is already eating between 1200-1500 calories and not losing weight, eating LESS is not the answer. They are already at quite a large deficit (500+ calories depending on their weight) most of us are or began as overweight or obese and these numbers, simply put, are very low. As ffor someone at a healthy weight just looking to trim down and drop a few lbs? That has to be done very slowly over time, so for them their calories would be just a few hundred less than maintenance, certainly not less than 1200. Like I said, If someone suggests that another is potentially iin "starvation mode" (which to most of us means that your body is really holding onto all of your calories in fear of starvation) it's usually as valid an answer as suggesting patience or increasing exercise.

    If an overweight person is eating 1200-1500 calories per day CONSISTENTLY FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS and hasn't lost a single pound, then she should see a doctor. If nothing else changes, she's not going to magically lose more weight by eating 1800 than she would at 1500. If she starts to lose weight the next week at 1800 calories per day - then she would have lost at least as much at 1500 if she did everything else the same (same amount of physical activity).

    Your body can't just "hold onto all of your calories" - it doesn't have a will. It needs to burn calories to survive, and it will get them from your food or from your body (i.e. weight loss). If you eat more, it will use more calories from your food and less from your body. That means less weight loss UNLESS something else changes.

    As people keep pointing out, your body burns a certain number of calories just lying in bed all day. Let's say that number's 1100 for me. If I only eat 1100 calories and I lie in bed all day, I stay at the same weight. If I eat 1500 calories, and I lie in bed all day, I'll gain weight. But if I eat 1500 calories, I'll probably get out of bed and burn more than 400 calories from being out of bed, so I'll end up losing weight. If I eat 1800 calories, however, I need to burn at least 700 calories out of bed to lose weight, and that's a taller order. I'd need to take a run or something.

    So my theory is that when people lose (more) weight at higher calories, it's because they are burning more calories, too. Not only because they're eating more.
  • kerrilucko
    kerrilucko Posts: 3,852 Member
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    If an overweight individual is already eating between 1200-1500 calories and not losing weight, eating LESS is not the answer. They are already at quite a large deficit (500+ calories depending on their weight) most of us are or began as overweight or obese and these numbers, simply put, are very low. As ffor someone at a healthy weight just looking to trim down and drop a few lbs? That has to be done very slowly over time, so for them their calories would be just a few hundred less than maintenance, certainly not less than 1200. Like I said, If someone suggests that another is potentially iin "starvation mode" (which to most of us means that your body is really holding onto all of your calories in fear of starvation) it's usually as valid an answer as suggesting patience or increasing exercise.

    If an overweight person is eating 1200-1500 calories per day CONSISTENTLY FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS and hasn't lost a single pound, then she should see a doctor. If nothing else changes, she's not going to magically lose more weight by eating 1800 than she would at 1500.

    She would if she were consuming to few calories for her body to function properly on. She would if her body sensed starvation, particularly if this is a cycle of hers, and decided to lower it's metabolism in order to survive.

    when you eat too few calories for your body it adapts to function on very few calories, thereby storing the majority of what you take it.

    I'm sorry but you won't change my mind, and the majority of MFPers follow this logic. We are all in charge of our own bodies and can each do as we see fit, yourself included :flowerforyou:

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