German Volume Training for squat and bench.

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dbmata
dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
edited March 6 in Fitness and Exercise
Anyone participating in this approach?

I'm looking at it for my squats and bench work, and mixing it with different programming for deadlifts, I've been advised to check out Pavel for that.

Any thoughts on GVT for bench? Right now when fasted and fatigued from my normal work set, I can do 225# bench for singles, and I think warmed up, fed and non-tired I'm at 3 or 4 solid reps. I can do 185 as my work sets for 5 no problem, a few sets in and I can see that a 6th rep would either be a grinder or a failure.

Goal: 225# for 10 for work sets by Dec. GVT appropriate?

I'm looking at it for squat too, I'm already doing high volume, so GVT would probably have me doing about where I am at right now, but staying in lower % ranges of my 1RM. My goal for squat is 4 plate squat, comfortably for 10 by Dec.

I'm currently at 315 for 5 high bar backsquat (can't low bar) and 385 for 5 sumo style.

Thoughts?

Any recs aside from Pavel for deadlift?

I'm at 425 for a 1RM at the moment, would like to get that closer to 5 plates comfortably to peak for a DL only comp at the end of january. I'd be treating the squats as an accessory to the DL work.

Thoughts?

Replies

  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    So if I'm reading this right, you want to add about 75lbs to your 1RM bench (185x5 worksets to 225x10 worksets) in a month and a half?

    And you also want to add about 140lbs to your 1RM squat at the same time? (315x5 to 405x10)?

    While adding 70lbs to your deadlift in 3.5 months?

    Good lord man, you are gonna need a lot more than GVT. You're gonna need anabolics. A lot of them.

    I have no idea how old you are, or how big you are, but adding that much to your bench could easily take 1-2 years. To your squat? 2-3 years+. If you ever get there, that is. 405x10 is over 500lbs for a single which a lot of people will never reach. I know people who are over 300lbs, who have been training 10years+ who can't squat 500lbs (legit depth squat and raw)

    So I guess to answer your question, I'd think about re-examining your goals. My lifts are probably 20% better than yours and I'm happy if I can add 5lbs a month. Adding 60lbs to any of my lifts inside of a year would be amazing.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Interesting. I guess I'm still riding high on the excellent gains I've had this summer.

    I'm hitting new maxes just about every month, so I'll need to readjust then. 225 is comfortable, I'll stall there a while and work reps.

    Deadlift I'll focus more on, and let the squat analysis slide, treat it as an accessory, and just have fun with it. I think end of the month I'll check my DL max, and adjust from there. Considering how much easier 405 is feeling now compared to the start of Sept., I wouldn't be surprised if I'm holding a 1RM for that.

    Keep in mind, I've got a lot of newbie gain benefit right now. I don't know how much longer that will last July 1 my max squat was 155 for 3 or 4 reps. My bench was similarly weak, but my DL was ok at around 300. I was hoping I could get around 5 plates before I had to really start grinding stupid hard for DL gains.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Well I ran Sheiko- but I kind of bumblefu!ked it so I think my results aren't exactly accurate. But I didn't add anything to any of my last lifts. I was bored with the lifting on the bench- it sucked doing bench squat bench squat- but I never felt like my bench was getting what it needed.

    if you're still rocking linear gains- don't switch- ride that train seriously for as long as you can. I'm way past that so it's not an option realistically for me- but I still occasionally do some variations (the 20 squat rep squat breathing program- it's fairly linear= and it sucked the biggest balls I've ever had to deal with. seriously)
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    I'm rather curious how long these increases will continue, but I won't look a gift horse so to speak. I'm already stronger now than I've ever been.

    I'll check out Sheiko. Now, if it didn't add anything to 1rm, did it increase your rep count at working weights?

    I'll be discussing this with my strength coach too, but I was thinking this different programming for days I'm not working with him, 2 or 3x sessions. Whatever, I'm going to stop overthinking it for the moment. :)
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    no the bench all stayed rather vanilla for me- the squatting did weird things- up and down- it's a periodization program- so it goes a lot- then heavy- then deload.

    But I did the organization of that incorrectly so again- my results aren't going to be accurate- but I expected to see SOME sort of results after pushing so much weight around!!!

    Oh well. Better luck next time- new program starts tomorrow- I'm still trying to decide.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Yeah? What program?

    The same one? I'm thinking I might run an additional volume approach, the day's core lift will be 100 reps+ overall, finishing at the upper limits, like 90 or 95% for singles, and just see how that goes.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    I'd like to give Sheiko a real shot- but I was reading the forums and it seems there is a like a "pre-program" program- that's geared for people who are newer- and I'm not a new lifter- but I do like the idea of starting with the first step of something to and working my way up- so I might do that.

    it's a toss up between running the beginner Sheiko then Sheiko itself (which winds up being 12 something weeks)

    a Squat specific program (Squat variation or the 20 rep squat breathing- which I've done- and it sucked but it was a thing)

    or I was considering Greyskull.

    I wanted to figure it out tonight- so I could lift in the AM- but I was to busy playing with drape stuff on my costume and watching drag shows. I fail at planning!
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    I really miss Drag Race.

    I've been wanting a sword, so I'll check out Greyskull. heh. Pre-Sheiko, then Sheiko... it's like a shaving regimen.

    Is your 20 rep squat?
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/irontamer5.htm
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    I would stick with the LP program for as long as you can.

    GVT is not really required IMO. If you can make gains with 3 sets, why do 10?

    Sheiko is AWESOME for upping the 1rm's (not so much the higher rep stuff). 29,37,32 is the typical first 12 week block. There is a sheiko forum with programs to DL also now.

    Many people ditch sheiko DL's for another DL specific program as it doesn't have pulls from the floor that often. Also, not that high on intensity. Coan/phillipi is a popular LP DL program to sub. (messes with the total volume calcs a little though)

  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    I'm going to ride those newbie gains as hard as I can, going to be honest, I've only really gotten serious about lifting since June. I think I'm getting a little ancy, not really sure when the lp is going to stop, so I'm really getting a "next phase" plan in place.

    In reading through GVT more chris, I think it would be a reduction in my overall work volume, without a significant decrease (or increase) in weights lifted. Might not be the thing for now, maybe to go to for a work reduction later, or to run through during a cut.

    I'll check Coan/Phillipi. Right now if anything, my DL is a little unstructured on my non-coached days, so that might keep me on point. Thanks for the idea.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    dbmata wrote: »
    I really miss Drag Race.

    I've been wanting a sword, so I'll check out Greyskull. heh. Pre-Sheiko, then Sheiko... it's like a shaving regimen.

    Is your 20 rep squat?
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/irontamer5.htm

    not mine specifically- and I did a variation on that- but yep- that. it sucks LOL.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Ah, I do that already during my coached sessions, 20s and 25s are small sets, sometimes as bad as 50 reps before I can put that damned bar back. Luckily the 50 rep sets are around 50-65% 1RM, but the 20s can go as high as 85%.

    You're crazy for doing that. lol. Those are monster days where you walk funny for a long while.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    I've always looked at GVT as more of a BB approach than strength approach. That's a big goal to have in just like 45-days. You should just stick with what you're doing if you're making good gains. Other than that if you really feel the need for a change, I would suggest getting Beyond 5/3/1 (updates to the original 5/3/1). There's some great additions including programming updates called "Joker sets" and "First Set Last" that you might be interested in. They are good ways to add some heavy work and volume to your training when you're up for it.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    I'll check it out. I've read the 5/3/1 is good for power.

    The Joker Sets sound fun, I do that sometimes when I want to shake things up, so that's totally comfortable. Nice. Same thing with the FSLs, hm. That might be a good one to put in the queue for later.
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