Activity Level and Fitbit Integration

24

Replies

  • woofer00
    woofer00 Posts: 123 Member
    Fitbit reflects estimated BMR +/- stepcount calorie burn, but the BMR is about as accurate as MFP's - which means it's ballpark at best. Any adjustment the sync does will be against MFP's estimate BMR, adding a second level of imprecision.

    The safest thing to do (and unfortunately time-consuming) is to set both to sedentary, log all food and activity into MFP, then keep an eye on net calories versus weight change to adjust calorie targets accordingly. You should be tweaking calorie targets with every 5 pound weight shift anyway.
  • CM9178
    CM9178 Posts: 1,251 Member
    woofer00 wrote: »
    Fitbit reflects estimated BMR +/- stepcount calorie burn, but the BMR is about as accurate as MFP's - which means it's ballpark at best. Any adjustment the sync does will be against MFP's estimate BMR, adding a second level of imprecision.

    The safest thing to do (and unfortunately time-consuming) is to set both to sedentary, log all food and activity into MFP, then keep an eye on net calories versus weight change to adjust calorie targets accordingly. You should be tweaking calorie targets with every 5 pound weight shift anyway.

    You're missing his question.
  • chudak
    chudak Posts: 14 Member
    Remember, FitBit isn't perfect either. It only works for exercises like walking, and I know it's not accurate for running. Apparently I'm too fast for FitBit to keep up with! If you wear it on a run or a bikeride, the data isn't going to be right.
  • CM9178
    CM9178 Posts: 1,251 Member
    People, if you are going to try to help him, please read and understand his question first, instead of giving advice that has nothing to do with the issue.
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    But fitbit doesnt know what my activity level is. Because I am using fitbit to MEASURE my activity level rather than arbitrarily estimating it, the fitbit adjustment should leave me with the same number of calories in a given day regardless of what I THINK my activity level is.

    Two things:

    If you recently got your FitBit, right now it's estimating, until it gets to know you better. The more you wear, the more accurate it's going to be.

    Make sure you have calorie estimations turned off on the FitBit side of things (settings, preferences).

  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
    CM9178 wrote: »
    People, if you are going to try to help him, please read and understand his question first, instead of giving advice that has nothing to do with the issue.

    Based on the number of questions you're still asking ti seems you're just as unaware of the issue as others.
  • CM9178
    CM9178 Posts: 1,251 Member
    CM9178 wrote: »
    People, if you are going to try to help him, please read and understand his question first, instead of giving advice that has nothing to do with the issue.

    Based on the number of questions you're still asking ti seems you're just as unaware of the issue as others.

    No, I understand what issue he is saying he is having, I am trying to figure out the cause of it.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
    It's very simple ... Fitbit, just like MFP, creates a baseline caloric estimate using BMR and one of several metabolic forumlae ... Harris Benedict in this case. From that baseline, a Fitbit counts steps and uses its own proprietary calculations to estimate caloric burn. If one's steps indicate to the Fitbit that they are not meeting the activity level, it subtracts calories. If the movement indicates that the person is exceeding the set activity level, it calculates accordingly. Without that baseline, there is nothing to compare the activity level to and adjust from.

    Expecting a pedometer to accurately calculate caloric burn just from steps without a baseline is expecting the impossible.
  • CM9178
    CM9178 Posts: 1,251 Member
    edited October 2014
    It's very simple ... Fitbit, just like MFP, creates a baseline caloric estimate using BMR and one of several metabolic forumlae ... Harris Benedict in this case. From that baseline, a Fitbit counts steps and uses its own proprietary calculations to estimate caloric burn. If one's steps indicate to the Fitbit that they are not meeting the activity level, it subtracts calories. If the movement indicates that the person is exceeding the set activity level, it calculates accordingly. Without that baseline, there is nothing to compare the activity level to and adjust from.

    Expecting a pedometer to accurately calculate caloric burn just from steps without a baseline is expecting the impossible.

    The OP is stating that if he has his activity level set to sedentary on MFP he does not end up getting the same calorie goal (AFTER THE FITBIT ADJUSTMENT) as he does if he sets his activity level to slightly active. He is saying it is giving him two different numbers after the adjustment, and it shouldn't.
    Yes, the starting goal is going to be different on MFP, but then Fitbit is supposed to adjust based off what you've actually burned, so in the end, regardless of what activity level you have set here, you should end up with the same calorie goal based off what you're actually burning. He is saying that is NOT happening.

    You should be able to manually set your calorie goal here to 4000 calories if you wanted to, but then Fitbit should adjust that number based off what you've actually burned for the day. The calorie goal originally set on MFP doesn't take precedence over anything.

    Fitbit does NOT take into consideration what activity level you have set on MFP, that has NOTHING to do with how many calories fitbit is calculating you are burning. It would still be telling you that you've burned X amount of calories, whether you were using MFP or not. Otherwise you'd be getting a different TDEE number if you weren't a MFP user.

    And for the record, Fitbit doesn't have an 'activity level' that you manually set. Otherwise, that would totally defeat the purpose of using it.

  • CM9178
    CM9178 Posts: 1,251 Member
    edited October 2014
    woofer00 wrote: »
    Any adjustment the sync does will be against MFP's estimate BMR, adding a second level of imprecision.

    This is wrong. If MFP's estimated BMR for the day is 2000 calories and Fitbit thinks you've only burned 1500 for the day, it is going to subrtract 500 from that number.

    If MFP's estimated BMR for the day is 1800 calories, and Fitbit thinks you've only burned 1500, it is going to subtract 300 from that number.

    Whatever Fitbit says you burned is going to come off (or add on to) what MFP THOUGHT you would burn, to give you the "more accurate" number. Fitbit's adjustment is not affected by MFP's BMR. It is all relative.

    I think many of you don't really understand how fitbit works. When I first got mine, I used it for two weeks BEFORE lyncing it with MFP so I could fully understand how it worked and see how many calories it was giving me. After lyncing it with MFP, nothing changed. The only thing it does on the MFP side is adjust the MFP calorie goal based off what it is calculating you are burning on the Fitbit side. Unlink it from MFP and you are still going to get the same calorie goal in the end.
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    MFP's burn doesn't change day to day unless you manually enter exercises on MFP (which the FitBit will then put into their formula and change the adjustment on MFP's side as needed).

    FitBit takes a while to figure out what your burn is (mine started around 1800, and has moved up to 2030) based on what I actually do. However, FitBit cannot accurately measure my daily burn on its own - aside from steps, the rest is all estimation based on how much I weigh and how tall I am. It gives me a calorie a minute when I'm sleeping - which is an estimate.

    As far as adjustments go, yes it should adjust properly based on what you input as your activity level - however with all the changes behind the scenes here at MFP, it could just be a little funky right now. Yesterday I was playing around with mine and my numbers kept randomly changing to numbers that made no sense. It could very well be MFP being a little glitchy and not an actual issue.

    I'd recommend using the sedentary setting for a few weeks - see what your adjustments are and then change it up - if the adjustments still aren't accurate, I'd report to both FitBit and MFP in case there is an issue behind the scenes. Give it a bit of time though to check accuracy.

  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    @TheVirgoddess - what does turning off calorie estimation do?
    -
    @CM9178 - I do think you understand my question

    @TheVirgoddess - When I say it changes, I mean I AM CHANGING IT. My point is that because I am using a fitbit (see: Relying on fitbit's estimate, rather than MFP), the end result should not change regardless of what I set the arbitrary activity level to in MFP.

  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    You keep using these hypotheticals but it would be good if you just provided your actual numbers for people to better understand.

    What is your height, weight, and weight loss goal set at in MFP (2 lbs/week?)
    If you set MFP up to maintain at Sedentary - what does it tell you your calorie goal would be?
    If you set MFP up to maintain at Lightly Active - what does it tell you your calorie goal would be?
    Do you have the same weight loss goal in FitBit (I think there it is easiest, easy, harder which equates to 0.5 lb/week, 1 lb/week, etc)
    What is your average calories burned from FitBit for the last 2 weeks?
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    @TheVirgoddess - what does turning off calorie estimation do?
    -
    @CM9178 - I do think you understand my question

    @TheVirgoddess - When I say it changes, I mean I AM CHANGING IT. My point is that because I am using a fitbit (see: Relying on fitbit's estimate, rather than MFP), the end result should not change regardless of what I set the arbitrary activity level to in MFP.

    Per the FitBit website:

    Once you start logging activities, Fitbit stops estimating and uses the data you've provided instead. The more you wear your tracker, the more accurate your calorie burn data will be.

    If that you find that your calorie burn is just as high or higher on days when you are less active, it may be because you have calorie estimation enabled. Calorie estimation is used when no activities are logged or data is synced.


    I know you are changing it - there's no need to yell at me. I'm doing my best to understand the question and help.

    When you say end result, you mean the calories you're assigned?

    The FitBit adjustment will change based on what you set your activity level to on here, because it changes your estimated BMR and therefore impacts the credit/debit you get at the end of the day.

    That said, it should adjust consistently through activity changes - is that not happening?
  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    Ok, I think at this point, we are going in circles without meaningful resolution.

    Yes, my numbers adjust constantly throughout the day as I move more. When I am talking about the numbers changing, what I am referring to is that if i change my activity level from sedentary to lightly active, the end result changes, and IMO, it should not change. With the addition of a fitbit, MFP should no longer need someone to submit an estimate of their activity level, because fitbit is MEASURING their activity level.
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member

    Ok, I think at this point, we are going in circles without meaningful resolution.

    Yes, my numbers adjust constantly throughout the day as I move more. When I am talking about the numbers changing, what I am referring to is that if i change my activity level from sedentary to lightly active, the end result changes, and IMO, it should not change. With the addition of a fitbit, MFP should no longer need someone to submit an estimate of their activity level, because fitbit is MEASURING their activity level.

    Then DON'T ADJUST YOUR ACTIVITY LEVEL. It's really very simple. If you do adjust your activity level, you are adjusting your BMR, so you will get more calories because you've told MFP that you BURN more calories. Which OF COURSE changes your FitBit adjustment.

    And by the way? FitBit estimatiates, too - it's ALL estimations. Nothing is going to tell you concretely what you burn every single day. FitBit uses just about the same formula that MFP does to determine your BMR, which is how they figure the calories you're burning while you sleep - the FitBit isn't actually measuring that. It's guessing. Just like MFP does. Just like IIFYM does.

    I use my FitBit to make sure I hit the BMR that MFP has given me. Anything outside of that burn is a bonus.

    The FitBit is a pedometer. It's not a tool to measure your activity level. It's a tool to tell you how many steps you take in a day. Your actual activity level changes if you lift weights, or do yoga, or countless other things that your FitBit cannot measure - which is why the BMR and exercise logs on MFP are so important.
  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    That's the issue. I have a sedentary job at work, but a very active lifestyle outside of work, which is why I bought the fitbit to begin with. I know it's an estimate, and I was hoping for a better estimate than just telling MFP that I am either sedentary or lightly active.

    I use the fitbit the same way I use my HRM for runs, rides, etc: as a tool to come to a closer estimate.

    Although, you do bring up a question, does logging weight lifting in MFP change numbers?
  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    And the reason I adjust the activity level is to test the outcome. Having to choose something that limiting is frustrating, and finding that it does actually impact the end result, even though I have a better option to provide an estimate is more frustrating.
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    That's the issue. I have a sedentary job at work, but a very active lifestyle outside of work, which is why I bought the fitbit to begin with. I know it's an estimate, and I was hoping for a better estimate than just telling MFP that I am either sedentary or lightly active.

    I use the fitbit the same way I use my HRM for runs, rides, etc: as a tool to come to a closer estimate.

    Although, you do bring up a question, does logging weight lifting in MFP change numbers?

    First, I'm sorry for capsing you - I'm cranky.

    I just leave mine on sedentary and let it give me the goods at the end of the day. If you notice that you consistently are several hundred calories ahead, change your activity level on here so you can have extra calories at the beginning of the day, instead of waiting until the end (like I do).

    Any exercise you log in MFP will change your FitBit adjustment. It will ALSO be reflected on your FitBit log as well. So they share numbers both ways.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    Your profile says you are 2 lbs from your goal? Why are you stressing about this so much? Pick an activity level. Stick with it for a while. Set your goal to lose 0.5 lb/week in MFP and on FitBit. Eat back the adjustments, or a portion of the adjustments if you are concerned about accuracy. Check back in a month and see if you've hit your goal. If not, adjust accordingly. If you have, then switch your goal to maintenance.
  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    @TheVirgoddess , that's what started all this. I had done one or the other, but at the end of the day, out of curiosity, i started doing some testing. For some reason, the numbers would change if I switch from sedentary to lightly active. At the very least, do you understand why I feel as though they should end up the same?

    Additionally, I know exercise changes MFP if you input cals, which then sends to FB, but with strength training, you dont put calories in. Does logging strength training still change the outcome?
  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    @Kruggeri, I am not actually that close to my goal. I had set it a while back, and got closer to the weight, re-evaluated, lowered the goal, got closer, etc etc. The point is, I dont know what my goal weight is because I dont have an accurate way to measure %bf.

    But to answer your question, the closer I get, the more attention to detail matters. So, this detail didnt matter when I first started. Now that I am getting results much slower, higher attention to detail and smaller factors make more of a difference.
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    @TheVirgoddess , that's what started all this. I had done one or the other, but at the end of the day, out of curiosity, i started doing some testing. For some reason, the numbers would change if I switch from sedentary to lightly active. At the very least, do you understand why I feel as though they should end up the same?

    Additionally, I know exercise changes MFP if you input cals, which then sends to FB, but with strength training, you dont put calories in. Does logging strength training still change the outcome?

    Well strength training is an entry in the exercise database, but if you're logging only in the strength training area, no - no burn.
  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    @TheVirgoddess I guess what I meant is does MFP adjust your BMR due to strength training. My BMR is likely higher than average because of my lean mass. ( I tried to come up with the least douchey sounding way to say that. )
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    Also, an example.

    When I put sedentary as my activity level, my daily burn is: 1,870
    When I put lightly active as my activity level, my daily burn is: 2,100

    (You can find this number in the "goal" section - upper right box).

    So if I burn 2,100 calories via my FitBit, I get an adjustment of 230 for sedentary, but nothing for lightly active. Because on my sedentary day, I get 1,370 calories. On my lightly active day, I get 1,600 calories.

    If we add 230 to 1370, we get 1600 - make sense? Things adjust, but in a way that adds up at the end of the day.
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    @TheVirgoddess I guess what I meant is does MFP adjust your BMR due to strength training. My BMR is likely higher than average because of my lean mass. ( I tried to come up with the least douchey sounding way to say that. )

    You don't sound like a douche.

    No, it won't adjust.

    Your BMR on MFP is determined by your weight, height and the activity level you've chosen - that's it.

    Have you considered getting a body composition test done? It'll will give you lots of good information and a better idea of what your body does burn.

    http://www.bodpod.com/en/products/body-composition/adult-children-bod-pod-gs/bod-pod
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    edited October 2014
    OP, if you are expecting Fitbit to actually be accurate than I've got bad news for you. I've been using it for about 3 months and it's not very accurate.Fitbit provides you with an estimate regardless of what MFP might expect and if you feel that this is more accurate, which is likely isn't, than use that instead. MFP is not Fitbit and has no obligation to make sure it mirrors what Fitbit says. It tries to account for the difference and if you go to the Fitness tab and click on the "i" bubble next to Fitbit it will tell you how it is attempting to use Fitbit's data.

    Beyond that you should contact MFP or Fitbit support directly because you are asking for the algorithm and that's not something most people would know beyond the programming team.
  • handyandy9x
    handyandy9x Posts: 93 Member
    I just did the same, and found my Fitbit adjustment was getting high while set at Sedentary on MFP. When adjusting to Lightly Active, my calorie target plus Fitbit adjustment was around 200 calories less than it was on Sedentary. As I was following pretty close to my MFP calorie target including adjustments, it may explain why I wasn't making the expected progress
  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    I forgot to mention, you can edit your FitBit calorie burn goal to match whatever MFP has you set to, if that helps.
  • spookiekabuki
    spookiekabuki Posts: 48 Member
    edited October 2014
    @TheVirgoddess - What you are suggesting, I am not experiencing with my integration. And yes I have thought about getting a composition test, but they are only accurate in the moment they are taken. It isn't something I can continuously monitor. In your last post:
    -
    I forgot to mention, you can edit your FitBit calorie burn goal to match whatever MFP has you set to, if that helps.

    What do you mean? I have my deficits match, but I havent thought about setting a BMR through fitbit. I was hoping that it would take care of that, and then also of my baseline activity level for a given day. That is the reason I use a fitbit to begin with. I do not need a tracker to get me more active, I need it to tell me how active I am for anything I don't measure myself (HRM).


    @Wheelhouse15 - I don't expect it to be accurate, I just want a better estimate than one single setting, as every day is different than the one before it. I am not sure you read everything I wrote, but I explained that.

This discussion has been closed.