Activity Level and Fitbit Integration

TheVirgoddess

spookiekabuki wrote: »

@TheVirgoddess - What you are suggesting, I am not experiencing with my integration. And yes I have thought about getting a composition test, but they are only accurate in the moment they are taken. It isn't something I can continuously monitor. In your last post:
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »

I forgot to mention, you can edit your FitBit calorie burn goal to match whatever MFP has you set to, if that helps.

What do you mean? I have my deficits match, but I havent thought about setting a BMR through fitbit. I was hoping that it would take care of that, and then also of my baseline activity level for a given day. That is the reason I use a fitbit to begin with. I do not need a tracker to get me more active, I need it to tell me how active I am for anything I don't measure myself (HRM).


@Wheelhouse15 - I don't expect it to be accurate, I just want a better estimate than one single setting, as every day is different than the one before it. I am not sure you read everything I wrote, but I explained that.

If your days aren't adjusting like mine are (I did a test when I posted those numbers, to double check), you might need to contact MFP/FitBit support.

When you go to your dashboard, the second box down on your left is your FitBit BMR. It's the one with the flame on it. You can hover over it to see your goal (which is your FitBit BMR), if you click the gear, you can change that number to match MFP's. It was just an idea to help keep things the same across the board for you.

Here's more info on the calorie burn part:

http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/How-does-Fitbit-know-how-many-calories-I-ve-burned

How many times a day do you sync?

spookiekabuki

I sync often throughout the day, especially after longer periods of movement, or when I am running low on available calories left to eat.

CM9178

TheVirgoddess wrote: »

spookiekabuki wrote: »

@TheVirgoddess - What you are suggesting, I am not experiencing with my integration. And yes I have thought about getting a composition test, but they are only accurate in the moment they are taken. It isn't something I can continuously monitor. In your last post:
-

TheVirgoddess wrote: »

I forgot to mention, you can edit your FitBit calorie burn goal to match whatever MFP has you set to, if that helps.

What do you mean? I have my deficits match, but I havent thought about setting a BMR through fitbit. I was hoping that it would take care of that, and then also of my baseline activity level for a given day. That is the reason I use a fitbit to begin with. I do not need a tracker to get me more active, I need it to tell me how active I am for anything I don't measure myself (HRM).


@Wheelhouse15 - I don't expect it to be accurate, I just want a better estimate than one single setting, as every day is different than the one before it. I am not sure you read everything I wrote, but I explained that.

If your days aren't adjusting like mine are (I did a test when I posted those numbers, to double check), you might need to contact MFP/FitBit support.

When you go to your dashboard, the second box down on your left is your FitBit BMR. It's the one with the flame on it. You can hover over it to see your goal (which is your FitBit BMR), if you click the gear, you can change that number to match MFP's. It was just an idea to help keep things the same across the board for you.

Here's more info on the calorie burn part:

http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/How-does-Fitbit-know-how-many-calories-I-ve-burned

How many times a day do you sync?

This was his entire issue from the beginning of this thread. He was saying that when he tests it by changing his activity level on MFP, it doesn't end up adjusting the same to give him the same calorie goal (Which it should, as it did in your case when you tested it).

So he either has something set wrong somewhere, or he is not understand the adjustments properly/reading something wrong.

OP - we'd need to see a breakdown of the two BMRs from MFP (sedentary and lightly active) as well as the adjustment you are getting from Fitbit in each case to see where the issue lies. Otherwise, contact Fitbit, because this works correctly for us when we test it.

CM9178

TheVirgoddess wrote: »

spookiekabuki wrote: »

@TheVirgoddess - What you are suggesting, I am not experiencing with my integration. And yes I have thought about getting a composition test, but they are only accurate in the moment they are taken. It isn't something I can continuously monitor. In your last post:
-

TheVirgoddess wrote: »

I forgot to mention, you can edit your FitBit calorie burn goal to match whatever MFP has you set to, if that helps.

What do you mean? I have my deficits match, but I havent thought about setting a BMR through fitbit. I was hoping that it would take care of that, and then also of my baseline activity level for a given day. That is the reason I use a fitbit to begin with. I do not need a tracker to get me more active, I need it to tell me how active I am for anything I don't measure myself (HRM).


@Wheelhouse15 - I don't expect it to be accurate, I just want a better estimate than one single setting, as every day is different than the one before it. I am not sure you read everything I wrote, but I explained that.

If your days aren't adjusting like mine are (I did a test when I posted those numbers, to double check), you might need to contact MFP/FitBit support.

When you go to your dashboard, the second box down on your left is your FitBit BMR. It's the one with the flame on it. You can hover over it to see your goal (which is your FitBit BMR), if you click the gear, you can change that number to match MFP's. It was just an idea to help keep things the same across the board for you.

Here's more info on the calorie burn part:

http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/How-does-Fitbit-know-how-many-calories-I-ve-burned

How many times a day do you sync?

I'm confused about what you're saying about the BMR on Fitbit. When I look at Fitbit, the goal for what you are saying is my Fitbit BMR is 1990. When I use the BMR calculator on MFP, it is 1468. So they clearly don't match. That number on Fitbit is not supposed to be your BMR. That number includes all daily activity, your BMR does not. It is just a goal you can set for how many calories you hope to burn each day. It should be much higher than your BMR.

I think you may be referring to TDEE, not BMR. But on Fitbit, you cannot set TDEE, that is what Fitbit is calculating for you!

spookiekabuki

I imagine this will need to take place toward the end of the day?

@TheVirgoddess @cm9178 To start with, what settings for both MFP and FB do you suggest?

And thank you guys, I feel like you all finally understand me. Sorry it took so long to articulate.

CM9178

spookiekabuki wrote: »

I imagine this will need to take place toward the end of the day?

@TheVirgoddess @cm9178 To start with, what settings for both MFP and FB do you suggest?

And thank you guys, I feel like you all finally understand me. Sorry it took so long to articulate.

It shouldn't matter what time of day you do it.
One thing I wanted to check, on your Fitbit dashboard, if you go into the Food log under the food plan section in the middle of the screen, Click the little gear icon where it shows how many calories you can still eat. Is that setting on Personalized or Sedentary? (for the record, mine is on Personalized).

CM9178

Ok, I just tested this myself and I THINK I may have found where your confusion lies.

If I set MFP to sedentary, I got the following numbers:

MFP TDEE expected: 1835
Fitbit ESTIMATED TDEE: 1798
adjustment: -31

If I set MFP to slightly active:

MFP TDEE expected: 2055
Fitbit Estimated TDEE: 1919
Adjustment - 136

As you can see, the EXPECTED Fitbit TDEE goes up when I change the activity level on MFP.(only slightly though)

BUT, as the day goes on, and Fitbit continues synching with MFP and updating what you've ACTUALLY burned, the number is going to constantly adjust based off what you are ACTUALLY burning.

For example, let's say on a normal day I burn 1800 calories.
With MFP set to slightly active, in the beginning of the day, MFP is going to give me a calorie goal of 1669. (This is 1919, what Fitbit thinks I will burn, minus 250 for .5 lb weight loss).
As the day goes on, and I end up burning LESS than what Fitbit thought I was going to burn, that goal will continue going down a little bit.

At the end of the day, it will still end up giving me the same calorie goal as it would've given me had MFP been set to sedentary, because I will end up burning the same amount of calories regardless of what activity level I have it set to.

So to confirm that this really does work correctly, yes I would wait until as late as possible in the day to test it. You will see that the Fitbit projection is going to be VERY close to what you've actually already burned for the day, and the calorie goals should be VERY close as well.

does this answer your question?

spookiekabuki

Its answers my question in that I EXPECT that behavior. I have not yet seen it happen though, thus prompting the post.

For the Fitbit "Daily Calorie Estimate Setting," would setting it to sedentary basically just mean that I only get calories I ACTUALLY walk or log, rather than the estimate of an average activity level? Because that is what I am looking for. I don't want my estimate to fluctuate toward the end of the day because I ended up at my desk longer than average.

CM9178

spookiekabuki wrote: »

Its answers my question in that I EXPECT that behavior. I have not yet seen it happen though, thus prompting the post.

For the Fitbit "Daily Calorie Estimate Setting," would setting it to sedentary basically just mean that I only get calories I ACTUALLY walk or log, rather than the estimate of an average activity level? Because that is what I am looking for. I don't want my estimate to fluctuate toward the end of the day because I ended up at my desk longer than average.

With that set to sedentary, it is going to start you with a pre calculate number that ignores what you "usually" burn, and then you'll earn more cals as you burn more (or lose some if you burn less) throughout the day. In my case, it started me out really low, I just didn't like it, but feel free to change it and see, it should give you an updated number immediately, try it for a day and see if you like that setting better.

Your calories aren't going to suddenly drastically increase or decrease unless you aren't synching frequently enough.


I will try to test it later tonight to confirm that changing the MFP activity level doesn't affect your daily calorie goal at the end of the day. Will let you know how that works for me.

spookiekabuki

With sedentary, its not so much setting a BMR, as just setting an initial estimate, correct? Basically, it would be the same as choosing an activity level in MFP, except that this one is edited by activity directly?

Thanks, I will try to do similar testing, although I have a birthday dinner tonight so it may not happen till later on this week.

woofer00

Mine fluctuates all day long - the negative adjustment shows me several hundred calories 'behind' every morning. On workdays it catches up by the time I finish my commute. Over the course of the day, the negative adjustment will increase until I finish the reverse commute and/or log in cardio exercises. In a sense, the increasing negative adjustment pushes me to be more active - walk instead of the taking the train, or go for a jog while dinner is cooking instead of sitting on the couch.

spookiekabuki

@woofer00, I have a similar motivation. Every walk I take means I get to eat a little bit more. I set an aggressive deficit, so I don't allow myself to go below it. I am not concerned with it changing throughout the day, I am just looking for the most accurate starting point, and setting level - knowing that this is all just an estimate.

CM9178

woofer00 wrote: »

Mine fluctuates all day long - the negative adjustment shows me several hundred calories 'behind' every morning. On workdays it catches up by the time I finish my commute. Over the course of the day, the negative adjustment will increase until I finish the reverse commute and/or log in cardio exercises. In a sense, the increasing negative adjustment pushes me to be more active - walk instead of the taking the train, or go for a jog while dinner is cooking instead of sitting on the couch.

then you probably have Fitbit set to Sedentary rather than Personalized.
I have mine on Personalized, and in the morning, I am never much further "behind" than I am at the end of the day.

spookiekabuki

Actually, until about 10 minutes ago, it was set to personalized and I changed it to sedentary. I would rather it didn't assume a certain activity level.

woofer00

Nope, it's on personalized - I suspect the wild fluctuations are because my activity level is wildly inconsistent - always 10k steps, but anywhere from 600 to 1500 kcal additional daily cardio activity, almost all of which happens after 8-9pm.

*edit*
I should note, I have mine on personalized because I was experimenting with daily targeting/estimating for food logs, then just got used to 'catching up'

WalkingAlong

I suspect you don't see an immediate 're-calc' of the Fitbit adjustment because it doesn't recognize the new MFP expected calorie burn until a later sync, maybe.

If you're using MFP's calorie goal (with Fitbit adjustment) to guide your eating the 'personalized vs. sedentary' setting in the Fitbit food plan should not affect you. That pertains to the Fitbit food plan, which doesn't affect your MFP calorie goals.

If you wear your Fitbit every day (and don't spend any entire days in bed), the "Enable Calorie Estimation" setting won't affect you. That pertains to what Fitbit estimates for you on a day you forgot to wear it (or were so sedentary it thinks you didn't have it on).

spookiekabuki

finally had a chance to sit down and change from lightly active to sedentary and back. There is a large discrepancy.
~11pm
Lightly Active
Goal 1440
food 3270
exercise 2140: 939 biking, 644 running, 557 FB adjustment
NET: 1130, remaining 310

Sedentary
Goal 1200 (I think it would actually be 1190)
food 3270
exercise 2140: 939 biking, 644 running, 808 FB adjustment
NET: 1130, remaining 70

As you can see, the difference between my calories remaining is identical to the difference between my choosing sedentary and lightly active from the start, which is counter intuitive because fitbit should make that choice, not me.

Cc215

Ok - fitbit doesn't chose your activity level on here you do - it's in the goals you set up on here.

what fit bit does is monitor your calorie burn through out the day. And then tells MFP how much you actually burned. MFP then gives you an adjustment so that you hit the goal set here. If the goal is different the adjustment it's going to be different.

SnuggleSmacks

I don't have a Fitbit, but I do have a Bodymedia, and the adjustments are similar and raise the same questions. Basically, when you adjust your activity level, Fitbit has an expectation that you will burn more calories by the end of the day than when you set it to sedentary. So it raises your goal, because it thinks you're going to burn more calories, and it's trying to keep the deficit the same. Then it's making an adjustment on MFP to match the new Fitbit goal.

Does that make sense?

spookiekabuki

@Cc215 did you read the thread? I am aware that it does not. The whole point is that I think it should replace it, based on how they integrate. And just like you said, FB monitors my burn (aka measures). So, MFP should not need an estimate by the end of the day, say, 11pm.

@snugglesmacks its not that it does or doesn't make sense. I suppose this is turning into more fo an enhancement request rather than a question. I that that fitbit SHOULD ignore any activity estimates, and use your body stats combined with your measured activity. That way, it doesn't matter if you choose sedentary or lightly active, since both of those are arbitrary anyway.

Cc215

I've read most the thread - and mainly what I've seen is someone that gets snotty with people trying answer their question. I won't bother again.

SnuggleSmacks

spookiekabuki wrote: »

@Cc215 did you read the thread? I am aware that it does not. The whole point is that I think it should replace it, based on how they integrate. And just like you said, FB monitors my burn (aka measures). So, MFP should not need an estimate by the end of the day, say, 11pm.

@snugglesmacks its not that it does or doesn't make sense. I suppose this is turning into more fo an enhancement request rather than a question. I that that fitbit SHOULD ignore any activity estimates, and use your body stats combined with your measured activity. That way, it doesn't matter if you choose sedentary or lightly active, since both of those are arbitrary anyway.

The thing is, Fitbit DOES do that, at the end of the day, once you've actually done your activity. It measures the calories burned, real time, through the activity that you've done. However, when you first wake up in the morning, before you've done any activity, it's still giving an estimate of how many calories it predicts you're going to burn, and that's based on the activity level you choose. And the reason for that is this: Not everyone keeps the same hours or stacks their meals in the same way.

So, if I stack my calories heavily at breakfast, how am I supposed to know how much I can eat for breakfast if I have no estimation to go by, and can only safely eat the calories I've already burned...while sleeping. And what about lunch? That's just a few hours later, and I've been at work at my desk and haven't had a chance to burn much else. Now it's dinner time and I'm eating sensibly, but I still have 5 more hours of calorie burning before midnight, and I'm not trying to lose weight, just maintain it, and I still have a long walk with my dog before bed.

How do I know how much to eat with no future prediction? And how can Fitbit predict my future burned based on my current burn, for example, when I just woke up and have spent the previous 6 hours not moving?

spookiekabuki

Cc215 wrote: »

I've read most the thread - and mainly what I've seen is someone that gets snotty with people trying answer their question. I won't bother again.

@Cc215 - Not snotty, just unresolved.

@snugglesmacks I understand that at the start of the day, there could be a discrepancy. The numbers I posted were taken at 11pm.

CM9178

spookiekabuki wrote: »

finally had a chance to sit down and change from lightly active to sedentary and back. There is a large discrepancy.
~11pm
Lightly Active
Goal 1440
food 3270
exercise 2140: 939 biking, 644 running, 557 FB adjustment
NET: 1130, remaining 310

Sedentary
Goal 1200 (I think it would actually be 1190)
food 3270
exercise 2140: 939 biking, 644 running, 808 FB adjustment
NET: 1130, remaining 70

As you can see, the difference between my calories remaining is identical to the difference between my choosing sedentary and lightly active from the start, which is counter intuitive because fitbit should make that choice, not me.

So it is a 240 calorie difference and you still had an hour left in the day.
What calorie deficit are you using? 250? 500? 1000?

CM9178

WalkingAlong wrote: »

If you're using MFP's calorie goal (with Fitbit adjustment) to guide your eating the 'personalized vs. sedentary' setting in the Fitbit food plan should not affect you. That pertains to the Fitbit food plan, which doesn't affect your MFP calorie goals.

That's not entirely true. If you have it set to Personalized, it is going to estimate your starting calorie burn for the day based off of previous days. If you have it set to sedentary, it is going to give you a lower/pre-defined calorie goal for the day and go from there. In the end, you will still end up with the same goal, but it starts off the day entirely different, especially if you don't work out until later in the day, or you eat more in the morning, etc as someone else mentioned.

spookiekabuki

@cm9178 1000 cal deficit. The 240 different is between using sedentary and lightly active. It would be 250 but you cant go under 1200 as a base. 250 also happens to be the starting difference between sedentary and lightly active, so the fact that I was at the same number at the end of the day means that MFP is not being over-ridden by fitbit.

WinoGelato

Why would a 28 year old guy who looks to be at his goal, who said earlier he has a lot of lean body mass, be set at a 1000 calorie deficit (2 lbs/week) and starting with a base goal of 1200 calories?

I have said this repeatedly, you are probably not going to figure out this ~200 calorie mystery. I think that is within the acceptable margin of error for these two systems and if you have issues with it, you need to try to get FitBit and MFP to both adjust their algorithms so that they match exactly.

Good luck.

spookiekabuki

@kruggeri - I almost ALWAYS go over by about 500c. I set it at 100 deficit because on days that I bike >30miles, I don't want to eat that much food. Some days, I am looking at 5000c to eat back, and I don't like eating that much, but I also never want to go below 1000c deficit. It's just easier that way.

At the very least, do you understand what I am trying to articulate? Or do you think I am just wrong about this whole thing?

WinoGelato

I do understand. I used to get hung up on the fact that the numbers never quite matched (although I never was obsessed with activity level the way you are). I finally accepted the fact that I needed to choose one system or another and trust the process. I was seeing results so it wasn't worth trying to figure out how to get those two systems to match up. They are different systems, different technologies, and based on different algorithms.

Pick an activity level and stick with it. That has been my advice from the beginning of this thread. Again, if you are biking 30 miles/day and burning thousands of calories through exercise, the difference of 240 cals cannot be more than 10% error rate. That is within acceptable margin of error in my book.

woofer00

Kruggeri wrote: »

I do understand. I used to get hung up on the fact that the numbers never quite matched (although I never was obsessed with activity level the way you are). I finally accepted the fact that I needed to choose one system or another and trust the process. I was seeing results so it wasn't worth trying to figure out how to get those two systems to match up. They are different systems, different technologies, and based on different algorithms.

Pick an activity level and stick with it. That has been my advice from the beginning of this thread. Again, if you are biking 30 miles/day and burning thousands of calories through exercise, the difference of 240 cals cannot be more than 10% error rate. That is within acceptable margin of error in my book.

I second this. I use MFP as the primary source for logging food and exercise. At the end of the day, the fitbit feed ends up being a single exercise line item logged into MFP. I haven't got a clue whether my calorie target in MFP is accurate on its own, but I know that combined with the fitbit correction factor*, it's close enough that the result is correct.

*and everything else I log/leave out for candy, gum, carrying a backpack, fast NY walking pace, unlogged bodyweight and resistance exercise, etc.etc.etc.